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When do we end the Kareem experiment?

thunderkyss said:
Saban has a history of his guys going the full 4 years. It's rare when they don't. I'd imagine he'd say the same about any of his players.
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Huh? Saban has had plenty of his players leave early. Dareus, Ingram, and Julio Jones from the 2011 draft alone.

thunderkyss said:
We drafted Kj and continued to pursue FA corners. We didn't find any that were better than what we had. Leigh Bodden may have been the exception, but he didn't want to come here.

Kj was not drafted & expected to start right away. We failed to secure a veteran fA & had to play the hand we were dealt.
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You've got it backwards. Free agency happens prior to the draft. The Texans failed to pickup a vet CB in free agency and drafted Jackson to start right away. Hence the "most NFL ready" comments by Smithiak. Jackson was a starter from the first minicamp.
 
Lucky said:
You've got it backwards. Free agency happens prior to the draft. The Texans failed to pickup a vet CB in free agency and drafted Jackson to start right away. Hence the "most NFL ready" comments by Smithiak. Jackson was a starter from the first minicamp.
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FA starts before the draft, it doesn't end at the draft. If I remember, we were still looking at CBs throughout that off-season & even through that season, that's how we ended up with Pahman (?or whatever his name was) & Allen.

"most NFL ready" I took as coach speak.... we were going to make the best of the situation we were in.
 
:cricket:


................ ....:cricket:


..........:cricket:


.......................................................:cricket:
 
foo82 said:
I do. It was KJ's fault his man wasn't targetted and that Joseph was targeted all day. If he had done a worse job, we could have simply bitched at him.
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Freak'n selfish mofo..... needs to learn to take one for the team.
 
Personally, I think we need Wade Phillips.

That Herring guy doesn't know what he's looking at. He had Jason Allen out there getting picked on by Dan O & Wayne. When Kj finally got in the game, it looked like Reggie Wayne disappeared, until that last drive.

Yeah, that last drive is the only one that counted, but Allen showed he was not up to the task all night long.

Garcia caught a ball on Kj, for a short gain. Reggie Wayne caught the one skinny post that put them on our 30 (or something) & Wayne caught that TD on Kj...... that was the same thing Kj did vs Roddy White on that "game winning save" this time, Wayne made the catch.

If you have the ability, go back & watch the series Kj was in & see how many times the ball went to Kj's man. Orlovsky much rather throw on Jjo.

I'm not saying Kj is better than Jjo. But Orlovsky went away from Wayne when Kj was in the game. He targeted Wayne when Allen was in the game.

Kj gave up that final touchdown on the drive our defense gave up 50 yards on penalties alone.
 
thunderkyss said:
Personally, I think we need Wade Phillips.

That Herring guy doesn't know what he's looking at. He had Jason Allen out there getting picked on by Dan O & Wayne. When Kj finally got in the game, it looked like Reggie Wayne disappeared, until that last drive.

Yeah, that last drive is the only one that counted, but Allen showed he was not up to the task all night long.

Garcon caught a ball on Kj, for a short gain. Reggie Wayne caught the one skinny post that put them on our 30 (or something) & Wayne caught that TD on Kj...... that was the same thing Kj did vs Roddy White on that "game winning save" this time, Wayne made the catch.

If you have the ability, go back & watch the series Kj was in & see how many times the ball went to Kj's man. Orlovsky much rather throw on Jjo.

I'm not saying Kj is better than Jjo. But Orlovsky went away from Wayne when Kj was in the game. He targeted Wayne when Allen was in the game.

Kj gave up that final touchdown on the drive our defense gave up 50 yards on penalties alone.
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That skinny post was on Demps.
Texans were in 1/4 on that side with Cushing and McCain in underneath zone.
The slot receiver (Collie) squat short of the first down marker (basically, he was already double-teamed by Cushing and McCain).
Demps inexplicably stepped down right behind Cushing.
That's definitely a poor play by Demps (bone-head).

To put this game on KJ is the job of the haters; they are doing their job well.
 
76Texan said:
That skinny post was on Demps.
Texans were in 1/4 on that side with Cushing and McCain in underneath zone.
The slot receiver (Collie) squat short of the first down marker (basically, he was already double-teamed by Cushing and McCain).
Demps inexplicably stepped down right behind Cushing.
That's definitely a poor play by Demps (bone-head).

To put this game on KJ is the job of the haters; they are doing their job well.
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why was Demps even playing deep....you have Manning and Quin and yet neither were there deep to protect us.....:toropalm:
 
76Texan said:
That skinny post was on Demps.
Texans were in 1/4 on that side with Cushing and McCain in underneath zone.
The slot receiver (Collie) squat short of the first down marker (basically, he was already double-teamed by Cushing and McCain).
Demps inexplicably stepped down right behind Cushing.
That's definitely a poor play by Demps (bone-head).

To put this game on KJ is the job of the haters; they are doing their job well.
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oh lord here we go again, same as last year, it is on the safties and not on KJ, that is still KJs man, the safety is for HELP over the top. Get outta here with that its on the safties and not KJ bull ****. cause according to you the safties are what is always saving allen, and BTW allen gave up 3 passes, KJ gave up 4, and the 2 biggest of the game on the last drive.
 
On the game winning TD, Kareem never turned his head to find the ball.



I've never seen him do that before. /sarcasm



So instead of turning his head to find and play the ball, he instead chose to flail blindly, hoping to get lucky (like he did against the Bucs).

:toropalm:
 
kwayshauntay said:
On the game winning TD, Kareem never turned his head to find the ball.



I've never seen him do that before. /sarcasm



So instead of turning his head to find and play the ball, he instead chose to flail blindly, hoping to get lucky (like he did against the Bucs).

:toropalm:
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I'm not getting into the whole Kareem thing.

But I wonder if Joseph would have been covering Wayne more if Wade was on the sidelines. If this was the case, it just goes to show you that a good coach puts his players in the best position to make plays.

Of course Wayne is going to out jump Kareem. The knock on Kareem is that he doesn't play the ball as much as he should (AKA, Not looking at it in the air) and Joseph does the exact opposite.

Did JJ defend on Wayne the first game? Why was it different this time? Did we feel that Garcon was more of a threat? That guy has the dropsies...
 
I'm torn on this.

I want to spend next year 1st pick on a WR... but Kareem is really, really bad. I don't know if Harris is starting CB material or if he's best suited to play in the slot.

Drafting Kareem really set us back in our secondary.
 
76Texan said:
That skinny post was on Demps.
Texans were in 1/4 on that side with Cushing and McCain in underneath zone.
The slot receiver (Collie) squat short of the first down marker (basically, he was already double-teamed by Cushing and McCain).
Demps inexplicably stepped down right behind Cushing.
That's definitely a poor play by Demps (bone-head).

To put this game on KJ is the job of the haters; they are doing their job well.
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I here what you're saying. But Kj was right there. Wayne plucks the ball high in the air. Kj is there to make a play & doesn't.

I here what you're saying I agree; somewhat...

But the play was there for him & he didn't make it.
 
thunderkyss said:
I here what you're saying. But Kj was right there. Wayne plucks the ball high in the air. Kj is there to make a play & doesn't.

I here what you're saying I agree; somewhat...

But the play was there for him & he didn't make it.
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All I was saying was that you can't put the game on one play.

I didn't defend KJ on that play even though he wasn't bad at all.
He was right there. He played the same technique that we've seen him defending that fade route (many times; even going back to last year against Hakeem Nicks,)
It's what the coaches think is most comfortable for him against that route (at this time).

JJo was nowhere near the receiver just a couple of plays earlier; that could have been an uncontested TD.
Quin was all over the receiver for that PI; that could have been a TD just the same.

KJ just missed the ball, but his hand was right in there.
It was the most contested play out of the three!
 
How many yrs does KJ have to get burned by Wayne before Gary realizes that KJ cant cover him?

We miss you Wade.
 
leebigeztx said:
If you're going to have a db who can't find the ball, they should've kept jacquez reeves.
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Except that Wade wants no more part of Reeves!

You talk like a DB is taught to locate the ball on every single play.
How about that play when JJo was burned by Steve Smith when he tried to locate the ball?
 
76Texan said:
Quin was all over the receiver for that PI; that could have been a TD just the same.
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I don't agree with the Quin PI. The contact started well within the 5 yards. The receiver never made any attempt to separate, he tried to run through Quin till he made his break. Then the ball was in the air & Quin was going for the ball.
 
Oh, I never saw this post. Regardless of what happened tonight (I didn't get to see the game), I'd like to address some of these points.

EllisUnit said:
buddy boy please show me the last thread i made about KJ, i comment in other threads that other people make when they talk bad about J.Allen
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Okay...nothing I said, EVER, said anything that this would address. Stop arguing against no one, it's too easy to win.


EllisUnit said:
Yes it is apparent that i dont like KJ, that is obvious. I only say what i say because of threads like this, cause now KJ is SOOOO good that he never needs safety help and Allen ALWAYS needs it haha. Last season KJ sucked because the safties didnt help him enough or they sucked (according to 76 and TK) but, now all the sudden he succeeds with no safety help. Give me a break.
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It's true that safety help makes corners better. And it's true that corners get beat. And it's true that sometimes, the safety is to blame. Please, note, and pay attention, I am NOT saying that KJ is never to blame. I am not saying that Allen is always to blame. And I don't think anyone but 76 have said anything about KJ being amazing, we've all just been happy with his (limited) progress.

EllisUnit said:
Oh and KJ really really really sucks :doot:still
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That whole response, and not only did you not address my main point, but you emphasized it. You're just giddy that Jackson's hurting the team, aren't you? Who roots against their own team, hoping that their opinion will be justified? Pathetic.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't agree with the Quin PI. The contact started well within the 5 yards. The receiver never made any attempt to separate, he tried to run through Quin till he made his break. Then the ball was in the air & Quin was going for the ball.
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I'm not 100% sure about the rules, but I think the 5-yd chuck rule cannot apply here.

When the ball leaves the QB's hand, the DB can't hit the receiver until the ball arrives.

Maybe we'll have an explanation next week?!?
 
76Texan said:
Except that Wade wants no more part of Reeves!

You talk like a DB is taught to locate the ball on every single play.
How about that play when JJo was burned by Steve Smith when he tried to locate the ball?
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I hope you're not serious,lol. Its called ball skills. Yes the db is taught from an early ae to locate the ball when the wr turns and looks for the ball or he shows his hands. Now when a qb throws the back shoulder pass to perfection, its not a lot that can be done, but on those last 2 plays by wayne, his lack of ball skills showed. Just like the julio jones play in which jones just dropped the game tying td. Reggie wayne isn't a rookie wr who isn't used to catching the ball in traffic.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't agree with the Quin PI. The contact started well within the 5 yards. The receiver never made any attempt to separate, he tried to run through Quin till he made his break. Then the ball was in the air & Quin was going for the ball.
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76Texan said:
I'm not 100% sure about the rules, but I think the 5-yd chuck rule cannot apply here.

When the ball leaves the QB's hand, the DB can't hit the receiver until the ball arrives.

Maybe we'll have an explanation next week?!?
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I looked at that play again and I can see why it was called. Quin had his off arm (right in this case) wrapped around the receiver. Never moved it off the receiver's body when the ball was in flight. Given that the ref who called it was behind the play, he probably thought that contact had more impact on the play than it really did. But the way they were calling incidental, ticky-tacky stuff, I'm not surprised it was called.
 
Can't believe there are still people defending KJ. How many big Plays does be have to give up before people realize he is J Reeves all over again? Honestly in he last two years I can count on one hand how many times he has turned,ocatex the ball and made a play on the ball. They should move him to safety and see if he has anything there warranting him holding down a roster spot.

Anyone still defending this POS is just not willing to admit they are wrong.
 
mussop said:
Can't believe there are still people defending KJ. How many big Plays does be have to give up before people realize he is J Reeves all over again? Honestly in he last two years I can count on one hand how many times he has turned,ocatex the ball and made a play on the ball. They should move him to safety and see if he has anything there warranting him holding down a roster spot.

Anyone still defending this POS is just not willing to admit they are wrong.
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KJ this, KJ that...Its the coach's decision to have him in there and Kubiak is not making that call. Either way, KJ is partly the blame in any play that he is a part of that is successful for the offense just by nature of the game as with any DB. However, there is no way I'm letting Reggie Wayne go 1 on 1 with anyone in that situation.
 
buddyboy said:
Oh, I never saw this post. Regardless of what happened tonight (I didn't get to see the game), I'd like to address some of these points.



Okay...nothing I said, EVER, said anything that this would address. Stop arguing against no one, it's too easy to win.




It's true that safety help makes corners better. And it's true that corners get beat. And it's true that sometimes, the safety is to blame. Please, note, and pay attention, I am NOT saying that KJ is never to blame. I am not saying that Allen is always to blame. And I don't think anyone but 76 have said anything about KJ being amazing, we've all just been happy with his (limited) progress.



That whole response, and not only did you not address my main point, but you emphasized it. You're just giddy that Jackson's hurting the team, aren't you? Who roots against their own team, hoping that their opinion will be justified? Pathetic.
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first off you said i always take time to attack KJ, i simple asked for you to show me my last thread i made that was to bash KJ, i on the other hand can show u many more recent ones made by other posters to bash allen, so yes i retaliate, normal response wouldnt you say.

And i dont root against my own team i dont even root against KJ, i say and express what i see on the field, and last night i saw KJ give up a big play to wayne that put them inside the 20 and then i saw him give up the game winner, thank good julio cant hold onto the ball otherwise that woulda been 2 game winning TDs he gave up.
 
76Texan said:
The same applies to JJo on Garcon!
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jojo didnt give up a TD, our the game winner, and dont talk about the play where it would of been a TD if Watt hadnt knocked the ball down, same applies to KJ if julio jones hadnt dropped the ball.
 
KJ was terrible, but so was Allen.....Allen was being abused the first half then it was KJ, the difference was KJ was in there to LOSE the game for us.....both of them suck and we should cut them both this year and sign another corner....like Brent Grimes or Terrell Thomas or another solid number 2. McCain has been very good in the slot and we still have Harris in our back pocket......
 
EllisUnit said:
Last season KJ sucked because the safties didnt help him enough or they sucked (according to 76 and TK)
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For the record, I never said that. I said he played like a rookie CB & anyone expecting him to play better should have known better.
 
Careem doing the walk of shame

kareem1-650x477.jpg


I only wish this was at Reliant so we could've thrown tomatoes at the fool.
 
mussop said:
Can't believe there are still people defending KJ. How many big Plays does be have to give up before people realize he is J Reeves all over again? Honestly in he last two years I can count on one hand how many times he has turned,ocatex the ball and made a play on the ball. They should move him to safety and see if he has anything there warranting him holding down a roster spot.

Anyone still defending this POS is just not willing to admit they are wrong.
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I understand what you are saying. We need & have needed a playmaker at the CB position for a while now. Jjo looks to be that guy (most of the time) Kj does not.

But there are different kinds of Corners, just like there are different kinds of QBs. You have some like Deon Sanders who came into the league making big plays. Then you've got those like Revis where it took 3 or 4 years before they earned recognition as arguably one of the best in the game.

Then you've got those like Asomugha, took a couple of years, then people just stopped throwing his way. Not because Asomugha was a threat to intercept the ball & take it to the house. But because it was a wasted play. The guy was not going to catch the ball.

That's where I see Kj going. There are several games this year that no one talked about Kj. It's my opinion that no one talks about him, because the ball was rarely thrown his way. He's not making big plays, he's not intercepting the ball, but he's playing solid coverage & unless you're a coach grading players, you probably won't notice.

Kj played the first series yesterday, we got the quick turnover, then you didn't see Kj for the rest of the half. Once Orlovsky realized Allen can't cover Wayne, he went to Wayne with regularity. Short outs, come backs, Allen gives up all the underneath stuff.

Kj came back in the second half & Reggie didn't catch a ball on Kj till the final drive. If you go back & watch the game, it's tight coverage & DanO deciding to go somewhere else.

I'm not saying he's playing at an elite level. I'm saying he is playing at a high level with a high level of consistency.

We're complaining about 2 catches he allowed.
 
Pancake's article on Big Plays Careem:

Texans may need to bench Jackson after another terrible outing

Jason Allen, who rotates with Jackson, played most of the first half. He finished with three tackles, one for a loss.

Jackson played the second half. For some reason, he was covering Reggie Wayne, the Colts’ best receiver, rather than Pierre Garcon, their second-best receiver.
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Colts 1st half = 6 pts, Wayne: 54, no TDs

Colts 2nd half = 13 pts, Wayne: 52 yards (including longest catch of the day, 34yards), Game-winning TD
 
leebigeztx said:
I hope you're not serious,lol. Its called ball skills. Yes the db is taught from an early ae to locate the ball when the wr turns and looks for the ball or he shows his hands. Now when a qb throws the back shoulder pass to perfection, its not a lot that can be done, but on those last 2 plays by wayne, his lack of ball skills showed. Just like the julio jones play in which jones just dropped the game tying td. Reggie wayne isn't a rookie wr who isn't used to catching the ball in traffic.
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I hope you're not serious.

Personally, I am serious, because I've heard an NFL coach talk about it, and I have seen segment in a playbook talk about it.
It wasn't elaborated, but it was clear that you cannot attempt to locate the ball all the time.
There are times to play the earlobe, and the eyes of the receiver.

Even Mayock talked about how JJo tried to peek to locate the ball and got burned by Steve Smith in the Panthers game.
 
76Texan said:
That skinny post was on Demps.
Texans were in 1/4 on that side with Cushing and McCain in underneath zone.
The slot receiver (Collie) squat short of the first down marker (basically, he was already double-teamed by Cushing and McCain).
Demps inexplicably stepped down right behind Cushing.
That's definitely a poor play by Demps (bone-head).

To put this game on KJ is the job of the haters; they are doing their job well.
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Here's straight from the horse mouth:

Kubiak
(on what happened to the defense on the Colts’ last drive of the game):
"We jumped a route with about 50 seconds left that we don’t need to be jumping. Just make them throw it and tackle, so that’s discipline in what we’re doing."

This refers to Demps coming down away from his deep 1/4 responsibility as I mentioned.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Kubiak-Friday-press-conference/6ecb54f3-9b01-4a6e-bdc3-6a943c666378

Some of you guys do need to learn more about football.
And this is not a personal jab, because I do try to learn more football all the time.
 
76Texan said:
Here's straight from the horse mouth:

Kubiak
(on what happened to the defense on the Colts’ last drive of the game):
"We jumped a route with about 50 seconds left that we don’t need to be jumping. Just make them throw it and tackle, so that’s discipline in what we’re doing."

This refers to Demps coming down away from his deep 1/4 responsibility as I mentioned.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Kubiak-Friday-press-conference/6ecb54f3-9b01-4a6e-bdc3-6a943c666378

Some of you guys do need to learn more about football.
And this is not a personal jab, because I do try to learn more football all the time.
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Yup and my knock is wtf was Demps even doing in there? We move Quin back there and we bring in Manning and Demps is still on the mother fn field....man it just irritates me
 
mussop said:
Can't believe there are still people defending KJ. How many big Plays does be have to give up before people realize he is J Reeves all over again? Honestly in he last two years I can count on one hand how many times he has turned,ocatex the ball and made a play on the ball. They should move him to safety and see if he has anything there warranting him holding down a roster spot.

Anyone still defending this POS is just not willing to admit they are wrong.
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You need to bring it to Wade Phillips.
He's the one who not only defended, but also praised Kareem Jackson in one of the recent press conference:

Conscientious (hard worker) and talented.

It's somewhere on the HoustonTexans.com website.
 
amazing80 said:
Yup and my knock is wtf was Demps even doing in there? We move Quin back there and we bring in Manning and Demps is still on the mother fn field....man it just irritates me
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We like to put Quin on the TE (on the other side of the field on this play).

Demps has been doing a decent job, but he simply blew his assignment on this play.
 
76Texan said:
You need to bring it to Wade Phillips.
He's the one who not only defended, but also praised Kareem Jackson in one of the recent press conference:

Conscientious (hard worker) and talented.

It's somewhere on the HoustonTexans.com website.
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I don't get it.

He "praised" Careem, but he has playing 50% of the time under his defense, a clear reduction of 100% when he was a rookie.

I thought to point of progression to get better as you gain more experience.. not have playing time taken away from you.
 
DiscoTuna said:
I don't get it.

He "praised" Careem, but he has playing 50% of the time under his defense, a clear reduction of 100% when he was a rookie.

I thought to point of progression to get better as you gain more experience.. not have playing time taken away from you.
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Ephraim Salaam & Duane Brown shared time when Brown was a rookie.

Brisiel & Caldwell shared time, I think Caldwell's second season.

Allen & Kareem shared time last season as well.
 
thunderkyss said:
Ephraim Salaam & Duane Brown shared time when Brown was a rookie.

Brisiel & Caldwell shared time, I think Caldwell's second season.

Allen & Kareem shared time last season as well.
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Don't you see the problem there?

Brown shared time when he was a rookie, he became a full-fledged starter his 2nd year.

Caldwell, not a first round pick, shared time as a rookie and has been beaten out of the RG job since.

Allen was splitting time with McCain, Careem was a full time starter.. he's going backward. Action speaks louder than words, Phillips is saying one thing and doing another. Careem is going the opposite direction that Duane Brown did.
 
DiscoTuna said:
Don't you see the problem there?

Brown shared time when he was a rookie, he became a full-fledged starter his 2nd year.

Caldwell, not a first round pick, shared time as a rookie and has been beaten out of the RG job since.

Allen was splitting time with McCain, Careem was a full time starter.. he's going backward. Action speaks louder than words, Phillips is saying one thing and doing another. Careem is going the opposite direction that Duane Brown did.
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Next year, people will be talking about how much Kareem has improved. Instead of saying 76Texan was right in the first place.

Kinda like Meyers. Two years ago he was talking about how Meyers was not playing as bad as "everyone" said he was, & that he was actually one of, if not, our best linemen.
 
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