Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Cushing suspended 4 games for violating policy on performance-enhancing substances

JB said:
Would there be any other reason to take this other than as part of a steroid cycle?
Click to expand...

I'm not CnD but...

To the best of my knowledge, hCG is never taken alone. It's usually taken with Nolvadex at the end of a cycle. It raises epitestosterone so it can help you mask the use of steroids (testosterone tests usually look at the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone). It leaves the system pretty quickly.

I've said before that professional athletes are and should be trying new drug regimens (of preferably non-banned substances) trying to find a competitive edge. This could be part of some new array of PEDs that I haven't heard of.
 
Tailgate said:
How long do cycles last? Lets say he was masking it... but was not taking them by the time the season came around. Would the cycle he possibly tried to cover up enhance his performance that much all season? My concern is his performance moving forward clean.
Click to expand...

Look at it this way, a guy cycles during the off season. This allows him to train harder and longer and build up more strength and endurance. Then he cycles off before the season starts. As long as he cycles intelligently, he keeps the majority of the gains he had during the off-season and that enhances his performance during the regular season.

So, he was "clean" during the season but he was bigger, stronger, and faster than he would have been if he hadn't cycled.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
You didn't see the response he got from posting a facepalm picture? It's not one-sided here.
Click to expand...

Well, there are certain posters on here who are never going to pass up an opportunity to bait someone or to take a jab. Some of it is targeted, and some of it is just poking fun.

There's a lot of anger coming out, on every side, I suppose.

We need to do some trust falls and maybe other team-building exercises. Everyone to the conference room in 5 minutes! :theoffice:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
It's hard for me to get out of my mind that he and his stength coach were both alledgedly warned of the substance.........and ignored the warning.
Click to expand...

This is from another thread but the same thing strikes me. Do you know whether there are any supplements which can cause an elevated hcg level? Something just doesn't jive here. The league wouldn't warn you about taking a definitional banned substance. I can see them warning about something that might result in elevated levels.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Cak,

There are many diet supplements out there that contain HCG for decreasing weight/fat.
Click to expand...

So in other words Cushing might have been taking a supplement to keep his body fat % down, been warned it could elevate his hcg level and then popped positive for an elevated hcg level? And in that scenario there would be no reason to believe his level of play was different other than the effect of carrying some amount of weight?
 
Grid said:
Im sorry.. I didnt know that you would get so butt hurt over that statement that your sense of humor would shrivel away.
Click to expand...

I am not hurt, but those were your words on a negative rep. Butt hurt and shrivel are interesting words to use given that those would be operative words to use for folks on a regimen.
 
infantrycak said:
So in other words Cushing might have been taking a supplement to keep his body fat % down, been warned it could elevate his hcg level and then popped positive for an elevated hcg level? And in that scenario there would be no reason to believe his level of play was different other than the effect of carrying some amount of weight?
Click to expand...

So, it appears that Cushing is a natural beast.

Good.

We shouldn't expect is play to come down from last season. Hell, with the extra month's rest (unless something miraculous happens), he should be a beast + 1. We can expect for hard knocks, INTs, and safeties from the Cushman this season. Stop worrying people.
 
infantrycak said:
So in other words Cushing might have been taking a supplement to keep his body fat % down, been warned it could elevate his hcg level and then popped positive for an elevated hcg level? And in that scenario there would be no reason to believe his level of play was different other than the effect of carrying some amount of weight?
Click to expand...

Correct. But it's not that simple. It still would stimulate testosterone levels, which would not test abnormally high, if they were already depressed from steroid cycling. No matter what, this is a very messy situation, that as a fan I wish could be explained away, but as a doctor, I know it can't.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Correct. But it still would stimulate testosterone levels, which would not test abnormally high, if they were already depressed from steroid cycling. No matter what, this is a very messy situation, that as a fan I wish could be explained away, but as a doctor, I know it can't.
Click to expand...

Only one guy knows for sure. Brian Cushing.

If it's as simple as taking something to keep the weight down, this fan would like to know. Of course, I am sure his lawyers (and other persons employed by certain other entities) are going to tell him to stay quiet and move on.

Anyone here thought about possible Congressional investigations, which would draw out a supplier ("IF" it was to mask steroids, btw)? Or has anyone thought about the supplier coming out and announcing he supplied Cushing with the stuff ("IF" it was to mask steroids, btw)?

This thing is just gettin' warmed up, friends. I think we're about halfway to the truth, and I wonder how we arrive at the full 100%. At some point, it's going to come out. Somebody, somewhere, will talk.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Correct. But it's not that simple. It still would stimulate testosterone levels, which would not test abnormally high, if they were already depressed from steroid cycling. No matter what, this is a very messy situation, that as a fan I wish could be explained away, but as a doctor, I know it can't.
Click to expand...

So what should Cushing's plan be going forward? Like you said this could get tricky/messy. Assuming this wasn't taken to mask the use of steroids... what if he tests positive for this again? Bad news. If he's doing this to keep his body in the best shape he can then it looks like he's going to have to forego on it, right?

Obviously, this could be used to try and cover the use of even worse stuff, but I'm still holding out and oh so desperately believing that Cushing isn't "cheating". He's a health nut that want to have his body (all sorts of different levels) as perfect and healthy as he can. Right now, I still believe thats what this is all involved with. He's like a chemist or a cook trying to get it just right. So if he has to avoid this "drug" or "ingredient" is it just something he has to live without?

What if next year he tests positive for some other 'drug' that's unrelated to this one and is non-steroidal. Does he get the 1 year suspension even if it's something totally different? This could get pretty bad because he 'takes' so much stuff.

I'd like him to do what he said during the Seahawks game. When told he broke his finger he said something like "you think it's broken? it's okay I'll just drink a glass of milk tonight or something."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Correct. But it's not that simple. It still would stimulate testosterone levels, which would not test abnormally high, if they were already depressed from steroid cycling. No matter what, this is a very messy situation, that as a fan I wish could be explained away, but as a doctor, I know it can't.
Click to expand...

But isn't the testing for testosterone level much looser because of the significant variation between individuals? That was the reason given for cycling using the testosterone to epitestosterone ratio instead of just measuring testosterone. Does the NFL use a pure level test or ratio?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Correct. But it's not that simple. It still would stimulate testosterone levels, which would not test abnormally high, if they were already depressed from steroid cycling. No matter what, this is a very messy situation, that as a fan I wish could be explained away, but as a doctor, I know it can't.
Click to expand...

CND, Eliminating all assumptions and names involved, if you were given the following set of facts and asked to draw a conclusion, what conclusion could you draw (medically)?

1. specimen tested positive for elevated hCG levels
2. it was a urine test
3. test was ran twice and tested positive both times
4. no stereoids or masking agents were uncovered in the test.

Given those facts, what is the most likely scenario and how certain can you be about it? why?
 
not sure if this link has been posted yet...

A source familiar with the Brian Cushing case has revealed more details to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. A positive test occurred in early September, and Cushing tested negative for any substance twice before he was ever alerted that he had initially tested positive (both within days of the initial positive test). And after being alerted of the positive test Brian was tested randomly numerous times throughout the season and never tested positive. In addition, the test was positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance - hCG is a hormone produced naturally by the body). The level that he tested positive for was so low that it would not have been considered a "positive" test even a year ago.
Click to expand...

http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/sport...r-orange-bowljason-heyward-close-to-returning
 
All those who flunked chemistry class must now excuse themselves from this conversation. Starting with ME.

This makes my brain hurt.

Alert me when this is solved.
 
dalemurphy said:
CND, Eliminating all assumptions and names involved, if you were given the following set of facts and asked to draw a conclusion, what conclusion could you draw (medically)?

1. specimen tested positive for elevated hCG levels
2. it was a urine test
3. test was ran twice and tested positive both times
4. no stereoids or masking agents were uncovered in the test.

Given those facts, what is the most likely scenario and how certain can you be about it? why?
Click to expand...

5. testee may or may not have masterbated that morning...


I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. :choke:
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
So what should Cushing's plan be going forward? Like you said this could get tricky/messy. Assuming this wasn't taken to mask the use of steroids... what if he tests positive for this again? Bad news. If he's doing this to keep his body in the best shape he can then it looks like he's going to have to forego on it, right?

Obviously, this could be used to try and cover the use of even worse stuff, but I'm still holding out and oh so desperately believing that Cushing isn't "cheating". He's a health nut that want to have his body (all sorts of different levels) as perfect and healthy as he can. Right now, I still believe thats what this is all involved with. He's like a chemist or a cook trying to get it just right. So if he has to avoid this "drug" or "ingredient" is it just something he has to live without?

What if next year he tests positive for some other 'drug' that's unrelated to this one and is non-steroidal. Does he get the 1 year suspension even if it's something totally different? This could get pretty bad because he 'takes' so much stuff.

I'd like him to do what he said during the Seahawks game. When told he broke his finger he said something like "you think it's broken? it's okay I'll just drink a glass of milk tonight or something."
Click to expand...

Cushing is no dummy, and as others have noted, he is "very careful" about what he takes in. Further worrisome is the alledgedly ignored "warning." I have to ask you, what over-the-counter effective supplement used specifically to lose weight (not water weight)/fat would not have an ingredient that contains or stimulates the production of a banned substance?...............I can't think of one. I would bet Cushing can't either.
 
I find that this thread has taken a very interesting turn. There is a lot of good reading here.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Cushing is no dummy, and as others have noted, he is "very careful" about what he takes in. Further worrisome is the alledgedly ignored "warning." I have to ask you, what over-the-counter effective supplement used specifically to lose weight (not water weight)/fat would not have an ingredient that contains or stimulates the production of a banned substance?...............I can't think of one. I would bet Cushing can't either.
Click to expand...

Maybe I am missing it... but then where would the warning come from?
 
Runner said:
I find that this thread has taken a very interesting turn. There is a lot of good reading here.
Click to expand...

Yep! Gonna run out to the diet Doc and get me a couple shots of HCG so I can be nice and skinny by Sept!!:winky: Sure wish it could be that easy!
 
infantrycak said:
But isn't the testing for testosterone level much looser because of the significant variation between individuals? That was the reason given for cycling using the testosterone to epitestosterone ratio instead of just measuring testosterone. Does the NFL use a pure level test or ratio?
Click to expand...

The normal ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is 1:1. When you are doping, at even low levels, the ratio increases to at least 2-3:1. The NFL, just like the Tour de France tests both substances simultaneously. The former uses a 4:1 ratio as a fail, while the NFL is quite generous with a 6:1 ratio before it triggers a fail. The NFL, it can be seen, only fails "flagrant" cases.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Cushing is no dummy, and as others have noted, he is "very careful" about what he takes in. Further worrisome is the alledgedly ignored "warning." I have to ask you, what over-the-counter effective supplement used specifically to lose weight (not water weight)/fat would not have an ingredient that contains or stimulates the production of a banned substance?...............I can't think of one. I would bet Cushing can't either.
Click to expand...

Tailgate said:
Maybe I am missing it... but then where would the warning come from?
Click to expand...

I'm coming from the same place. Oh and don't ask me to name any over OR under the counter medicine. The extent of my 'know how' is pretty much Vitamin C packets you poor in your water bottle. :truck:

But I just get this gut feeling Cushing was taking this stuff for reasons of trying to get his body in perfect shape (not to mask steroid/PEDs or whatever). Don't get me wrong, he and the trainer were warned and that does get me wrong. But with that, I feel like it may have been one of those, "hey I know why you're taking this but it could effect some of your natural hormones/testosterone that might trigger something in a test". I hope it wasn't told to them: take this and you're going to fail. I think in their heart they knew it wasn't anything bad and that IF for some reason a test picked up on it, it would be such a minute level that it could easily be explained.

It doesn't change the fact that they were taking a risk and now he's suspended. That sucks, royally. But I still WANT to believe their intentions were good and this is essentially a bunch of technical B.S. :)
 
The level that he tested positive for was so low that it would not have been considered a "positive" test even a year ago.
Click to expand...

From the link above.

Interesting. So they just lowered the standard.

Wish we had the test results so CnD could tell us just how slightly elevated his result was.

And now knowing the substance this is not a case of stupid to take something on the banned list. It isn't banned. It's level is restricted. That is a significant difference.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
5. testee may or may not have masterbated that morning...


I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. :choke:
Click to expand...

Maybe that's what the team warned him about -

Texans Official: "Cush. Quit doing that or you'll go blind. How are you going to play SAM if you can't see? How are you going to snag picks with hairy palms?"

Brian Cushing: "Those are just myths. There is nothing wrong with doing that."

Texans Official: "Well, it might cause you to test positive for HGC which could result in a suspension."

Brian Cushing: "Nuh-uh. No way. Not true."

Texans Official: "Every time you do it a puppy dies."

Brian Cushing: "I have to go. Little Brian has been bad and must be disciplined."
 
dalemurphy said:
CND, Eliminating all assumptions and names involved, if you were given the following set of facts and asked to draw a conclusion, what conclusion could you draw (medically)?

1. specimen tested positive for elevated hCG levels
2. it was a urine test
3. test was ran twice and tested positive both times
4. no stereoids or masking agents were uncovered in the test.

Given those facts, what is the most likely scenario and how certain can you be about it? why?
Click to expand...

I have a difficult time eliminating anything from the menu of bad things we've already discussed.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I have a difficult time eliminating anything from the menu of bad things we've already discussed.
Click to expand...

CND, I appreciate your help here. I appreciate you giving it to people straight. I know you don't have a definite answer but I also don't see you sugarcoating it or looking for a built in excuse. Nice work.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Cushing is no dummy, and as others have noted, he is "very careful" about what he takes in. Further worrisome is the alledgedly ignored "warning." I have to ask you, what over-the-counter effective supplement used specifically to lose weight (not water weight)/fat would not have an ingredient that contains or stimulates the production of a banned substance?...............I can't think of one. I would bet Cushing can't either.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure some of the more aggressive Nitric Oxide supplements would do that but honestly if there's smoke there's fire. The # of natural freaks even in the NFL is limited, and Cushing well there were rumors of steroids, he "supposedly" failed a test, and now has been suspended.

IMHO, at this point I personally think he's cycling something, I gave him the benefit of the doubt but now that is gone.
 
infantrycak said:
And now knowing the substance this is not a case of stupid to take something on the banned list. It isn't banned. It's level is restricted. That is a significant difference.
Click to expand...

OK, so where is the official NFL statement on this? I thought the media (Or Cushing, via the media) had released that it was a non-steroidal substance.

This means there is a definitive substance that the NFL found, or are we now at the point where the NFL did not "find" the so-called substance but noticed that his level ratio was not within their current acceptable limits?

What is the current acceptable ratio for the NFL. CND has said, unless I am taking the post out-of-context or misunderstood, that the ratio is still considered to be a flagrant fail...not something very narrow like 2:1; more along the lines of either 3:1 or 4:1. (where the NFL potentially HAs or HAD been at 6:1 according to CND)?

If he is hitting ratios that are above 2:1 or even 3:1.....then doesn't it seem likely that things are not accidental here? Though how he is able to ping negative tests all around this one isolated test is fascinating indeed.
 
GP said:
OK, so where is the official NFL statement on this? I thought the media (Or Cushing, via the media) had released that it was a non-steroidal substance.

This means there is a definitive substance that the NFL found, or are we now at the point where the NFL did not "find" the so-called substance but noticed that his level ratio was not within their current acceptable limits?

What is the current acceptable ratio for the NFL. CND has said, unless I am taking the post out-of-context or misunderstood, that the ratio is still considered to be a flagrant fail...not something very narrow like 2:1; more along the lines of either 3:1 or 4:1. (where it HAD been at 6:1 according to CND)?
Click to expand...

Well to my knowledge CnD didn't supply any numbers and frankly as I stated above the standard tested for is almost irrelevant as we don't know the number of the test result. Have to have both in order to say how outside of ordinary the result was. This was not a ratio test and has been described as barely failing the recently lowered test. Now what CnD did say is in ordinary people generally this substance is so minimal it is hard to detect in most circumstances.

My point with the post you quoted was John Lopez and others have been acting as if he was dumb for not being able to read a list or for choosing to ignore a list because the substance was absolutely banned. Turns out it isn't banned. Your level just can't exceed a certain amount. Turns out it can be used after a cycle and also turns out it can be used for weight/fat loss.
 
infantrycak said:
My point with the post you quoted was John Lopez and others have been acting as if he was dumb for not being able to read a list or for choosing to ignore a list because the substance was absolutely banned. Turns out it isn't banned. Your level just can't exceed a certain amount. Turns out it can be used after a cycle and also turns out it can be used for weight/fat loss.
Click to expand...

Well then he should have known what the limit was and where he was at if that is the case, these guys make way too much money not to have someone maintaining their diet/supplement routines. If I was him and taking those types of supplements then I'd have myself tested, and make sure i'm not above the level, but hey he didn't know he was pushing it right? I'm going to raise the bs flag, he was pushing it and he knew it.
 
infantrycak said:
From the link above.

Interesting. So they just lowered the standard.

Wish we had the test results so CnD could tell us just how slightly elevated his result was.

And now knowing the substance this is not a case of stupid to take something on the banned list. It isn't banned. It's level is restricted. That is a significant difference.
Click to expand...

Cak,

That would be more a play on words. HCG is on the banned substance list Just like any naturally occuring substances, though, abnormally high fail levels are established (such as the case with testosterone).
 
infantrycak said:
Your level just can't exceed a certain amount. Turns out it can be used after a cycle and also turns out it can be used for weight/fat loss.
Click to expand...

But this is all predicated upon unknowns:

1. Was it to compensate for the after-effects of steroidal use

or

2. Was it a powdered substance mixed in with fruits and into a shake, to lose weight and keep it off (an "iffy" type of non-steroidal supplement, for example)

Cushing, IIRC, is the one saying "Non-steroidal" substance.

I just am having a hard time placing my trust in either (a) what Cushing says, or (b) what my heart wants to believe (the weight loss theory). My head is overriding my heart until things change dramatically.
 
GP said:
OK, so where is the official NFL statement on this? I thought the media (Or Cushing, via the media) had released that it was a non-steroidal substance.

This means there is a definitive substance that the NFL found, or are we now at the point where the NFL did not "find" the so-called substance but noticed that his level ratio was not within their current acceptable limits?

What is the current acceptable ratio for the NFL. CND has said, unless I am taking the post out-of-context or misunderstood, that the ratio is still considered to be a flagrant fail...not something very narrow like 2:1; more along the lines of either 3:1 or 4:1. (where the NFL potentially HAs or HAD been at 6:1 according to CND)?

If he is hitting ratios that are above 2:1 or even 3:1.....then doesn't it seem likely that things are not accidental here? Though how he is able to ping negative tests all around this one isolated test is fascinating indeed.
Click to expand...

Well, when you're testing someone, you don't "find" the compound, you find elevated levels and incorrect ratios.

When CnD was talking about the test/epitest ratio, he was talking about the test to detect steroid use. And that's not the test that Cush failed. Cush's test/epitest ratios were within the allowed limits. (Which happen to be loose enough to allow almost everyone in the NFL to be doing light cycles of steroids, I think.)

Cush failed an hCG test. And his hCG was just "slightly" elevated. The hCG levels were changed in the past year and Cush would not have failed at the testing levels used in previous years. But I'm not sure with the hCG test what that means in terms of amounts.

The thing about hCG is that it doesn't last very long in the blood system. You've only got a few days that you can test and see the elevated level after use.
 
GP said:
OK, so where is the official NFL statement on this? I thought the media (Or Cushing, via the media) had released that it was a non-steroidal substance.

This means there is a definitive substance that the NFL found, or are we now at the point where the NFL did not "find" the so-called substance but noticed that his level ratio was not within their current acceptable limits?

What is the current acceptable ratio for the NFL. CND has said, unless I am taking the post out-of-context or misunderstood, that the ratio is still considered to be a flagrant fail...not something very narrow like 2:1; more along the lines of either 3:1 or 4:1. (where the NFL potentially HAs or HAD been at 6:1 according to CND)?

If he is hitting ratios that are above 2:1 or even 3:1.....then doesn't it seem likely that things are not accidental here? Though how he is able to ping negative tests all around this one isolated test is fascinating indeed.
Click to expand...

The ratios I gave were concerning testosterone:epitestosterone.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The ratios I gave were concerning testosterone:epitestosterone.
Click to expand...

Officially, then, we are really dealing with the hCG situation?

The hCG levels raised a flag with the NFL and they acted accordingly. ?

(Therefore and thusly, Brian can stand on a podium and maintain that he has not tested for the presence of a steroid substance. The league found none, but they did find raised hCG levels. The league is maintaining that the raised hCG levels are, in essence, proof that other sordid events were going on ?)
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Well, when you're testing someone, you don't "find" the compound, you find elevated levels and incorrect ratios.

When CnD was talking about the test/epitest ratio, he was talking about the test to detect steroid use. And that's not the test that Cush failed. Cush's test/epitest ratios were within the allowed limits. (Which happen to be loose enough to allow almost everyone in the NFL to be doing light cycles of steroids, I think.)

Cush failed an hCG test. And his hCG was just "slightly" elevated. The hCG levels were changed in the past year and Cush would not have failed at the testing levels used in previous years. But I'm not sure with the hCG test what that means in terms of amounts.

The thing about hCG is that it doesn't last very long in the blood system. You've only got a few days that you can test and see the elevated level after use.
Click to expand...

Usually by 10 days, it's gone.......but sometimes it can be longer.
 
silvrhand said:
Well then he should have known what the limit was and where he was at if that is the case, these guys make way too much money not to have someone maintaining their diet/supplement routines. If I was him and taking those types of supplements then I'd have myself tested, and make sure i'm not above the level, but hey he didn't know he was pushing it right? I'm going to raise the bs flag, he was pushing it and he knew it.
Click to expand...

Well pushing what matters to me. Has he successfully beat a lie detector test and was really coming off steroids or was he pushing the limit on keeping his body fat at a specific level? Either way it may be dumb but it makes a difference in my judgment of the person and will make a difference on what to expect in his level of play in the future.

CloakNNNdagger said:
Cak,

That would be more a play on words. HCG is on the banned substance list Just like any naturally occuring substances, though, abnormally high fail levels are established (such as the case with testosterone).
Click to expand...

I mean call it play on words if you want but banned at any detectable level and banned above an arbitrarily set level are different to me. I tried to give an example of Floyd Landis where such arbitrary standards can lead to misleading results. I'm just having a hard time putting the pieces together on this. "The NFL warned." Well so the NFL knew and doesn't have an outright prohibition. How did the NFL know? If it was after a steroid cycle why would you let either the team trainer (unless there is an organized team steroid program) know or the NFL know?

CloakNNNdagger said:
The normal ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is 1:1. When you are doping, at even low levels, the ratio increases to at least 2-3:1. The NFL, just like the Tour de France tests both substances simultaneously. The former uses a 4:1 ratio as a fail, while the NFL is quite generous with a 6:1 ratio before it triggers a fail. The NFL, it can be seen, only fails "flagrant" cases.
Click to expand...

My point was the odd scenario for Landis. It wasn't that he had abnormally high testosterone. He popped positive for having abnormally low epitestosterone thus throwing the ratio out of limits. Haven't heard any explanation of any performance enhancement program that results in abnormally low epi with normal testosterone.
 
infantrycak said:
Well pushing what matters to me. Has he successfully beat a lie detector test and was really coming off steroids or was he pushing the limit on keeping his body fat at a specific level? Either way it may be dumb but it makes a difference in my judgment of the person and will make a difference on what to expect in his level of play in the future.



I mean call it play on words if you want but banned at any detectable level and banned above an arbitrarily set level are different to me. I tried to give an example of Floyd Landis where such arbitrary standards can lead to misleading results. I'm just having a hard time putting the pieces together on this. "The NFL warned." Well so the NFL knew and doesn't have an outright prohibition. How did the NFL know? If it was after a steroid cycle why would you let either the team trainer (unless there is an organized team steroid program) know or the NFL know?
Click to expand...

I doubt seriously that the NFL dropped the limit arbitrarily. Most likely the previous testing method was not sensitive enough to detect below a certain limit. As with the history of most lab tests, new more sensitive and specific tests evolve as the science becomes more sophisticated. The aforementioned also makes sense in that such minute amounts would ever be expected in a naturally occuring situation.
 
infantrycak said:
Well pushing what matters to me. Has he successfully beat a lie detector test and was really coming off steroids or was he pushing the limit on keeping his body fat at a specific level? Either way it may be dumb but it makes a difference in my judgment of the person and will make a difference on what to expect in his level of play in the future.



I mean call it play on words if you want but banned at any detectable level and banned above an arbitrarily set level are different to me. I tried to give an example of Floyd Landis where such arbitrary standards can lead to misleading results. I'm just having a hard time putting the pieces together on this. "The NFL warned." Well so the NFL knew and doesn't have an outright prohibition. How did the NFL know? If it was after a steroid cycle why would you let either the team trainer (unless there is an organized team steroid program) know or the NFL know?



My point was the odd scenario for Landis. It wasn't that he had abnormally high testosterone. He popped positive for having abnormally low epitestosterone thus throwing the ratio out of limits. Haven't heard any explanation of any performance enhancement program that results in abnormally low epi with normal testosterone.
Click to expand...

If the labs or NFL haven't figured that one out, let me offer up something.
Getting blitzed on alcohol will definitely cause significant raise in testosterone and significant lowering in epitestosterone..........even in women.
 
I assume Cushing and his team explored every means available to convince the NFL that the test result occurred as a result of completely legal activity. The NFL upheld the suspension.

Questions:

How often does the NFL change a suspension upon appeal?

Are the NFL limits set so loosely in the players' favor that a failed test shouldn't be overturned without significant evidence to the contrary?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top