Shishkabob
All Pro
My head hurts trying to watch our line deal with stunts, and delayed blitzes. It seriously looks like they don't ever practice it, and it's a brand new concept when they encounter it in a game.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Search your memory banks, Porky.
Mike Munchak was taken with the 8th pick in 1st round in 1982.
Bruce Matthews was taken with the 9th pick in the 1st round in 1983. (a year later)
Dean Steinkuhler was taken with the 2nd pick in the 1st round in 1984 (a year later)
That’s called priority.
If the Texans drafted OL in the 1st round 3 years in a row, most of you would scream bloody murder.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I wouldn't.
It's about time BOB got his guy. Should've happened 5 yrs ago.
Just like they should have let BOB go when they fired Ricky.
Me either, the OL is the foundation of any successful team. That and a QB. Everything else is window dressing. IMHO
So do the Texans now have to wait 2-3 drafts of "priority" drafting to get see if we get a decent line? Which mean not only drafting , but avoiding XSF and Ereck Flowers.
And if only takes all high draft picks then what does happen to the rest of your roster. I mean the Cowboys have a great OL (supposedly) and they are literally just a blah mid level as the Texans.
badboy
Hall of Fame
been a bit since we had such high picks in first round and quality tackles available; unless you want to trade Watson for a tackle?
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
The problem with the Texans is they've ignored and/or made bad decisions about the o-line for years. It would take a few seasons to actually build up a good line, and Watson will be living in the broken QBs home by then. I hope we aren't going to waste the talent Watson has, but I do fear the worst.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Kubiak got his damn self fired when he went against Bob McNair word to leave Case in the game. Come on now you of all people should know this.
And yes dude is Obrien yes man. Why didn't we interview any other GM? Bill O'Brien hand picked Gaines.
It's been like this for 5 years, but strangely people are only noticing now.
I guess the first year was slightly better because he had Kubkak's talent and a top 10 OL. But now that is mostly gone (except for Hopkins).
It's been a bottom 10 offense every year, but he's finally run out of excuses.
I guess the first year was slightly better because he had Kubkak's talent and a top 10 OL. But now that is mostly gone (except for Hopkins).
It's been a bottom 10 offense every year, but he's finally run out of excuses.
7778
There are other guys like Little and Hyatt. I would trade up in rd. 1 to get Little or Williams and pick a guy like Hyatt/Edwards and my sleeper guys Alaric Jackson/Kaleb McGary.
There are other guys like Little and Hyatt. I would trade up in rd. 1 to get Little or Williams and pick a guy like Hyatt/Edwards and my sleeper guys Alaric Jackson/Kaleb McGary.
delete
Nope, they need to identify a LT and a RT.
If it was me I would use my 1st and two 2nds to get either Williams or Little. Then in the 3rd draft Alaric Jackson or Kaleb McGary to play RT.
OL
Williams/Rankin/Martin/Fulton/Jackson and bring back Kelemete/Henderson/Mancz for depth purposes. This can be done.
Get a CB in FA and all of the sudden this team will look much better.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It might not be as bad as some think. Rankin with some time should at minimum be a starting RT. If I'm wrong about Davenport we still can go after Jonah Williams even if we have to trade up. Regardless, by 2019 D will have a full season behind him and could equal any drafted LT so he should at worse be a backup. So if you are bold enough go get the best LT prospect in draft as you can use the two seconds and even our third to trade up. We can of course buy one if there is one in this off season and willing to offer stupid money. I am not opposed to that if the player is a solid starter. Of course we apparently will need at least one corner and maybe a safety if KJ leaves or moves back to CB. Luckily 2019 is deep at corner so we can use our 4th and 5th to take those. In fact, I am mocking a safety in 4th. Maybe this:
Trade our 1st (say #18 ) + our second round two point wise should get us to # 10. Probably have to throw in another later pick just for appetiser.
1.10 Best LT and remember he has to be able to play there and not be shuffled inside which reduces many guys.
2.18 and I think trading partner insists on our first (Seattle) best corner
3.18 another OL or RB
4 best safety?
Trade our 1st (say #18 ) + our second round two point wise should get us to # 10. Probably have to throw in another later pick just for appetiser.
1.10 Best LT and remember he has to be able to play there and not be shuffled inside which reduces many guys.
2.18 and I think trading partner insists on our first (Seattle) best corner
3.18 another OL or RB
4 best safety?
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am not as high on Little as others; his issue for some is consistency. For now it appears he will be drafted way before we can get him even if we could swing a trade. Hyatt I need to watch some more
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In case you missed Thursday night's game, Nate Solder did his best Davenport imitation. He was destroyed by the Eagles. The only difference between him and Davenport was their contracts.
I see Little in the same light as Tunsil. Perfect no, but overall he's performed well against some of the best DL in college. If he was on the Texans today he would be their starting LT and the most athletically gifted OL on the team. His late father was a solid NFL player, so the game isn't too big for him.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
Your stance on Davenport is laughable.
In your scenario give me,
Rd.1 Williams/Davenport
Rd.2 Hyatt/Jackson I would even use amy 2nd/3rd to move up to pick Hyatt.
Rd.4 Best RB
BPA after that, I would love to see them draft Turpin as a KR/PR/Slot. That guy is a playmaker.
Texansballer74
The Marine
You're setting yourself up again for a big ash disappointment. The Texans will not be drafting those players.
I'm not setting my self up for anything. I just know what it's going to take to fix the problem. I dont expect much from this org. I have learned to just LOL at them.
Brainfart, I meant Little instead of Davenport. Another guy I'm high on is LT Dillard from Washington St.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
See, I think it depends on your qb. With a qb like Watson, I would rather build a drew brees ol. What does that mean? 2 guards and the center. If they keep the pressure out his face, it's cool. That's not to say don't draft or develop the tackles, but that inside cup is more important in my opinion.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah...but Probably doesn’t say what u think though
Agreed. Screw the rest of the roster.
We got our quarterback. Finally. Finally. The offensive line should be the priority. If not, then trade Watson away. There’s no point of even having him.
Understood, but from what I've seen the OT play has been atrocious and has/will lead to Watson getting hurt. An interior OL with Fulton/Martin/Rankin should be solid. There's some dog in Fulton/Rankin. Cant say that about Davenport and Lamm while doing the best he can is overmatched talentwise.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Fair point, its hard for Texans to address inside or outside when it comes to their offensive line woes. Generally speaking the outside guys make the big money unless you become a pro bowl guard or center just because of skill set combined with athleticism. Either way until you start hitting with some first round talent its going to be an uphill battle.
While many on here have given up on Davenport I haven't. I still think he can make a good LT but I will admit it's going to take more time than I thought it would, and that's time the Texans (Watson) don't have. He obviously didn't have his best game against the Bills and was burned pretty badly a few times, but then again, I think there was plenty of blame to go around. I do wish Henderson could have stayed healthy because Lamm is just awful. As far as Rankin being a LT or RT I don't think would be a good fit. He may get by as a RT in a pinch but I think his true position is OG, which leads me to the Draft.....
They have to draft at least 2, and preferably more, O-linemen in this Draft and they need to do it in the first 2 rounds. This has been a sore spot with me for the past 3 or 4 seasons and the Texans "Achilles heel" almost since BOB has been here. They just haven't drafted enough O-linemen and the few they have drafted have not really performed that well (XSF, Davenport, and Martin all come to mind though I believe Davenport and Martin can be salvaged). The Texans need to draft the best OT (whether it's Left or Right doesn't matter) with their 1st pick in next years Draft. Then they need to draft another OT with their 2nd pick. Let both OT's, Henderson, and Davenport battle it out in camp next season and let the best 2 play with the 3rd being the Swing Tackle. If Henderson or Davenport win one of the battles play the best Rookie with them and use the other as the ST. If both Rookies win out, play them, and keep Henderson or Davenport as the ST. Hopefully by the end of this season things will become clearer in regards to Rankin and where he should play, and if Davenport will be worth keeping. Lamm, on the other hand, should be gone next season.
They have to draft at least 2, and preferably more, O-linemen in this Draft and they need to do it in the first 2 rounds. This has been a sore spot with me for the past 3 or 4 seasons and the Texans "Achilles heel" almost since BOB has been here. They just haven't drafted enough O-linemen and the few they have drafted have not really performed that well (XSF, Davenport, and Martin all come to mind though I believe Davenport and Martin can be salvaged). The Texans need to draft the best OT (whether it's Left or Right doesn't matter) with their 1st pick in next years Draft. Then they need to draft another OT with their 2nd pick. Let both OT's, Henderson, and Davenport battle it out in camp next season and let the best 2 play with the 3rd being the Swing Tackle. If Henderson or Davenport win one of the battles play the best Rookie with them and use the other as the ST. If both Rookies win out, play them, and keep Henderson or Davenport as the ST. Hopefully by the end of this season things will become clearer in regards to Rankin and where he should play, and if Davenport will be worth keeping. Lamm, on the other hand, should be gone next season.
Haven't seen you for awhile... good to see you back
Agree with your post, but I think Lamm has been improving. Does he have any PS squad time left? With such abysmal coaching it's really hard to judge any of these guys. Lamm is just inconsistent as hell. Texans can do better
Scooter
Funky
I like this way of thinking, but it takes coaching, teaching and some forethought for that type of concert to work. Obviously your JAG tackles have to emphasize not getting beat inside. If those 3 maintain the pocket and edge rushers are forced outside, that gives Watson scramble/run lanes to work with - or forces those playmakers to slow their rush in order to keep their lanes (and help our lesser tackles). You're also going to want a heavier RB who can crash the line to take care of linebackers - or tell Blue that it's Cushing on the other team.
You are also able to dictate run lanes and screen options if teams have to condense their linebackers/safeties.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Don't count me as one of those individuals....I'm all about the trenches with OL having the highest priority.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I see a foundation of interior OL on the current squad. I think Rankin should get primed to become a LG. I would literally start the process now. Fulton is a keeper at RG and in my book, he only gets better with better talent at Center and RT. Martin has been a disappointment to say the least, I would trade him tomorrow if another team was willing to part with a RD5 pick to obtain his services. I would much rather see Mancz start at Center at some point this season as he prepares for 2019.
Davenport, Henderson and Lamm have to be kept b/c of the slim pickings. Texans have to draft both a LT and RT as a priority......I'd then look at a another, OT and OG/C that represents high risk-high reward type of players after RD4.
I would try to hire Mike Munchak and Bruce Mathews as the new OL Coaches in 2019. Do I truly know how that would work out? No, no I wouldn't but I couldn't imagine it being any worse than Devlin trying to coach or teach any top OL prospects.
Scooter
Funky
Casual fans? Most likely. Here? The only complaint would be which lineman was taken or injury concerns. Many like myself and Steel have advocated a mandate on taking an offensive lineman with one of the first two picks each year on general principle. Cliche's don't happen by accident, and 'the game is won and lost in the trenches' is one of the oldest and still most relevant. Stealing from another post, I would've taken Matthews first if I couldn't trade down ... there would be minimal outcry about a reach, but nothing more than "alright, but I wanted".
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I've been saying since Watson was drafted that the Texans organization put the cart before the horses. Then to compound the screw-up, they just de-prioritize protecting their shiny new "Franchise QB".
Scooter
Funky
They've had 5 years to saddle the horses, instead we've sold off a team of Clydesdales in favor of large (getting smaller each year) donkeys. If a cart full of gold shows up you have to take it. But don't blame the donkeys for being donkeys.
(did I take that analogy too far? lol)
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articl...-race-was-won-by-a-mule-named-lord-fauntleroy
Hey .. hold your horses just a second (couldn't resist lol)
It's not a necessity to go first round OL, what you can't do is consistently whiff on 2-4th round linemen like the Texans do. Add to that abysmal FA acquisitions and you have the perfect storm.
SteelB said it .. history is repeating itself right before our eyes.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...y-jonah-williams-looks-like-best-in-a-decade/
This at least gives me some hope. How about going all out and trading back into the first round for another guy. 2 first round OL with a decent free agent would revamp in a hurry.
While we definitely need an infusion of talent on the OL, I think we need a new coach as well. I was listening to 610 last week and Wade Smith mentioned he noticed major issues with how the coaches were asking the lineman to block. He mentioned Nick Martin specifically. He said they were asking Martin to do things that would be difficult for a hall of fame level player. Also, we can all be upset at Smith for signing a guy like Lamm, but someone has convinced management to keep him around all these years
Outside of the line, Griffin and Miller are a joke in pass pro. I’ve seen both players give extremely poor effort blocking. What good is to max protect if the extra blockers suck. I think it would be better to have more receivers in the field to give Watson more options to get rid of the ball quicker.
Finally, I’ve noticed when Watson does break the pocket and roll out there are times when there are no receivers on his side of the field. These guys have to be coached to work back towards the qb. It would set up some potential big plays
Outside of the line, Griffin and Miller are a joke in pass pro. I’ve seen both players give extremely poor effort blocking. What good is to max protect if the extra blockers suck. I think it would be better to have more receivers in the field to give Watson more options to get rid of the ball quicker.
Finally, I’ve noticed when Watson does break the pocket and roll out there are times when there are no receivers on his side of the field. These guys have to be coached to work back towards the qb. It would set up some potential big plays
Scooter
Funky
Nice intro lol. It's not necessary, but it is incredibly beneficial. What we can't do is fail to turn our 2-4 picks into capable players. Winston wasn't good, but became above average. Smith was a gimpy free agent JAG of equal or lesser quality to the FA's we've signed in the past few years, and went to the probowl. Seth Wand would be the best player on our line by a mile, and sadly our worst in Derrick Newton would be the elite member. Nick Martin and XSF have the tools, hell XSF was argued as the most 'pro-ready' coming out of college, and have regressed to the point of incompetence.
History is NOT repeating itsself. History is Kubiak turning nobodies into a cohesive unit through teaching, coaching, and gameplanning. Today is regression, failure, and deferring blame. Hell O'Brien inherited backups that are better than what he's putting on the field today.
The coaching we have has no idea how to utilize the talent we have .
yeah, I was really surprised last week when they finally hit Hopkins on a quick slant and then he went monster.... otherwise we'd be 2-3-1 at best
Scooter
Funky
A basic slant should be no less than 15% of Hopkins' game. He's too dangerous to be allowed a free release outside and is a way to move the defense. O'Brain is too focused on what we can't do because he sucks, that he can't see what we CAN do ... because he sucks. I only saw the last few plays of the Steelers/Bengals game and after appreciation ... all I felt was sad. When you know the defense is going to blitz and you design a motion rub that takes .5 seconds to execute. At the 2 yard line an individual look turns into an easy screen. Successful game winning plays that you and me could have been the offensive linemen.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Its crazy to me on how this team just doesn't understand the basics. I've mentioned several times its coaching. What is Bill O'Brien trying to accomplish here? Linemen are very smart but the coaching scheme is making them look dumbfound out there. If HOF linemen couldn't do it why is Obrien trying to make these guys do it.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I agree with your sentiments, but if the Texans ran the same play the Steelers won that game on we get flagged for the receiver blocking early
Texansballer74
The Marine
I seen that play by the Steelers too and their other receiver was blocking before Brown's catch.
Some teams get away with that trash all the time.
New England most definitely gets away with it.
I was almost too drumk to comprehend, but yeah
Scooter
Funky
Semantics - it was an illegal block by about a yard, but close enough (and designed well enough) that he got away with it. The point is we'd have sent 4 receivers 20 yards deep for a sack, or max protect with nobody open for a sack. Or Miller up the middle.
We won't have the opportunity to get away with something creative and successful.
sorry, but is this a 'me,me,me' comment?
Sorry, not going for that at all. It’s just sad excuse-making for not getting the required talent.
We hear that same sh!t every year. “We just need to coach em up better” blah blah blah. All the coaching in the world is not going to make anyone faster or quicker if they are not fast or quick to begin with. It’s horsesh!t easy-way-out excuse making.
Year after year after year. Why are you all not sick and tired of this?