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State of the O-line

Shishkabob said:
damn I wasn't on last night, calm down steel we have plenty of chance to argue today lol. But yes that play call was designed well. O'Brien makes gaffs in his play calling sometimes yes, he calls good plays as well sometimes. The thing that bothers me the most is the continuous lack of execution on the offense which points back to how players are being coached.
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It's not just you brother, I was just pointing out according to some BOB cant design a play to save his life. For that matter according to some he's a mouth drooler who cant do anything right. Would he be the HC is I was McNair? Nope, but he's not as bad as many on here make him out to be.

BTW, I agree with your post. Bottom line is BOB isn't going anywhere, so that tells me the McNair's are blaming the current teams ills on a lack of talent and are looking for Gaine/BOB to rectify this situation. Starting next offseason they're on the clock. Hopefully Watson can stay healthy in the meantime.
 
I think, or at least guess, he can design plays just fine or he wouldn't be where he is. What I complain about is what seems to be stubbornness, I'm sure in a perfect world with perfect talent at every position what he calls would work great. But we don't have that, most teams don't have that but they find a way to make the offence go.

Davenport sucks or isn't ready? Well he's all we got so what can we as coaches do to put him in the best position to succeed or at the very least, suck less?
Miller is horrible between the tackles? What can we scheme to either A. make that work or B. do something different?

No seems every game, its just these are the plays I call and you will execute them, sure some of it is on the players (the only people not at fault are the fans, although we are the ones being punished). But I see teams playing their third string O lineman and making it work at least on some level. The Texans just play ugly.

I'm sure he can do it - hell he did it last year, so what is holding him back? But he is who he is, first play of the next game, Miller attacking the asses of the center/guard and first redzone trip, end around to Coutee. I know its coming, you know its coming, the defense knows its coming.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
I think, or at least guess, he can design plays just fine or he wouldn't be where he is. What I complain about is what seems to be stubbornness, I'm sure in a perfect world with perfect talent at every position what he calls would work great. But we don't have that, most teams don't have that but they find a way to make the offence go.

Davenport sucks or isn't ready? Well he's all we got so what can we as coaches do to put him in the best position to succeed or at the very least, suck less?
Miller is horrible between the tackles? What can we scheme to either A. make that work or B. do something different?

No seems every game, its just these are the plays I call and you will execute them, sure some of it is on the players (the only people not at fault are the fans, although we are the ones being punished). But I see teams playing their third string O lineman and making it work at least on some level. The Texans just play ugly.

I'm sure he can do it - hell he did it last year, so what is holding him back? But he is who he is, first play of the next game, Miller attacking the asses of the center/guard and first redzone trip, end around to Coutee. I know its coming, you know its coming, the defense knows its coming.
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Somewhat would agree although i wouldn't call it stubbornness, it's probably just bread & butter stuff. My main gripe with BoB and playcalling is he doesn't stretch LB's horizontally to make them run enough. The plays he calls are very good for stretching a defense vertical and are designed well, but sometimes you need to make a defense move laterally to take advantage of their aggressiveness & stress them a bit more. The extent of him stretching a defense horizontally is throwing missle screens and the occasional stretch run out to the tackles or a reverse of some sort. He needs to call WAY more of these types of plays..especially with Jax this week. I'd like to see more of Miller on the edges & some TE/WR drag routes all the way across the formation.
 
welp this isn't looking good

Texans guard Zach Fulton (ankle) not practicing during portion open to media, didn't practice yesterday. Next guy up would be Greg Mancz

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) October 18, 2018
 
steelbtexan said:
It's not just you brother, I was just pointing out according to some BOB cant design a play to save his life. For that matter according to some he's a mouth drooler who cant do anything right. Would he be the HC is I was McNair? Nope, but he's not as bad as many on here make him out to be.

BTW, I agree with your post. Bottom line is BOB isn't going anywhere, so that tells me the McNair's are blaming the current teams ills on a lack of talent and are looking for Gaine/BOB to rectify this situation. Starting next offseason they're on the clock. Hopefully Watson can stay healthy in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Well if the mcnairs think so then it must be correct
 
Mr teX said:
Somewhat would agree although i wouldn't call it stubbornness, it's probably just bread & butter stuff. My main gripe with BoB and playcalling is he doesn't stretch LB's horizontally to make them run enough. The plays he calls are very good for stretching a defense vertical and are designed well, but sometimes you need to make a defense move laterally to take advantage of their aggressiveness & stress them a bit more. The extent of him stretching a defense horizontally is throwing missle screens and the occasional stretch run out to the tackles or a reverse of some sort. He needs to call WAY more of these types of plays..especially with Jax this week. I'd like to see more of Miller on the edges & some TE/WR drag routes all the way across the formation.
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The Bills' LB were biting hard on everything, O'Brien never took advantage of their aggressiveness.
 
if you look at how those Kubiak teams were built, Smith spent most of the draft picks on defensive guys and he used FA to primarily build the offensive side. He tried that same **** with BoB and BoB wasn't having it.
 
Mr teX said:
if you look at how those Kubiak teams were built, Smith spent most of the draft picks on defensive guys and he used FA to primarily build the offensive side. He tried that same **** with BoB and BoB wasn't having it.
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And yet Kubiak built great offenses. Hmm

Maybe O'Brien should stick to being a QB coach who has some input into the plays
 
Mr teX said:
if you look at how those Kubiak teams were built, Smith spent most of the draft picks on defensive guys and he used FA to primarily build the offensive side. He tried that same **** with BoB and BoB wasn't having it.
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Because Kubiak could create an offense himself through coaching, teaching, experience and scheme - but knew he didn't have the coaching talent on defense and tried to compensate with player talent. Except for 2015 (only one), two+ of our first 3 picks have been on offense in O'Brien's tenure (10 out of 15 if you need help), and we've been signing FA linemen and quarterbacks at record pace. What argument are you trying to make again?
 
Scooter said:
Because Kubiak could create an offense himself through coaching, teaching, experience and scheme - but knew he didn't have the coaching talent on defense and tried to compensate with player talent. Except for 2015 (only one), two+ of our first 3 picks have been on offense in O'Brien's tenure (10 out of 15 if you need help), and we've been signing FA linemen and quarterbacks at record pace. What argument are you trying to make again?
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Exactly. With Foster, Daniels and Johnson as his skill players on offense, Kubiak knew he had his core on offense and resources were spent to shore up the defense.
 
Earl34 said:
Exactly. With Foster, Daniels and Johnson as his skill players on offense, Kubiak knew he had his core on offense and resources were spent to shore up the defense.
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Kubiak even though he was stubborn, stuck to his plan. He believed his offensive scheme would beat any defensive scheme. He wasn't switching up his offense every freaking game or midway through games.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Kubiak even though he was stubborn, stuck to his plan. He believed his offensive scheme would beat any defensive scheme. He wasn't switching up his offense every freaking game or midway through games.
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He could evaluate talent properly. He wasn't switching out starters in the first game of the season.
 
Scooter said:
Because Kubiak could create an offense himself through coaching, teaching, experience and scheme - but knew he didn't have the coaching talent on defense and tried to compensate with player talent. Except for 2015 (only one), two+ of our first 3 picks have been on offense in O'Brien's tenure (10 out of 15 if you need help), and we've been signing FA linemen and quarterbacks at record pace. What argument are you trying to make again?
Click to expand...

(Or maybe because Kubiak had more say in personnel. (Remember all of the Colordo St. players) plus he and Ricky were raised up in the Walsh system.

With Ricky being raised in the Walsh system and BOB raised in the EP system this marriage (If you want to call it that) had no chance to work and frankly if McNair made a stupid hire if he wasn't going to clean house when he fired Kubiak.

It's like the McNair's dont understand the different systems and the type of people in the GM/HC positions to make them work. This kind of foolishness along with not participating in FA has put the Texans where they are today.

Look at the Rams, they bring in a new HC with a GM who was already there but understood the system the HC wanted, they invest in FA Suh/Whitworth/Draft Havenstein/Miller/Woods and trade for Watkins/Cooks/Peters/Talib and all of the sudden they're 6-0.

Why couldn't the Texans be a proactive franchise like this? These 2 franchises were in basically the same place 3 yrs ago.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Kubiak even though he was stubborn, stuck to his plan. He believed his offensive scheme would beat any defensive scheme. He wasn't switching up his offense every freaking game or midway through games.
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And he was right. Rod Smith could sit down on the 5 yard line and open a picnic basket waiting on the ball to land in his lap since there weren't any defenders within a mile. Owen Daniels was dang near using crutches to catch passes thrown by a guy with less of an arm than 2016 Andrew Luck ... and even worse - Osweiler.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Kubiak even though he was stubborn, stuck to his plan. He believed his offensive scheme would beat any defensive scheme. He wasn't switching up his offense every freaking game or midway through games.
Click to expand...

He was right too,

Until he went into turtle mode.
 
Earl34 said:
Exactly. With Foster, Daniels and Johnson as his skill players on offense, Kubiak knew he had his core on offense and resources were spent to shore up the defense.
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And where did it get them?

Exactly where BOB has been during his tenure with the Texans.

Neither of which is good enough if your goal is to win a championship.
 
steelbtexan said:
(Or maybe because Kubiak had more say in personnel. (Remember all of the Colordo St. players) plus he and Ricky were raised up in the Walsh system.

With Ricky being raised in the Walsh system and BOB raised in the EP system this marriage (If you want to call it that) had no chance to work and frankly if McNair made a stupid hire if he wasn't going to clean house when he fired Kubiak.
Click to expand...

So ... Rick Smith did a good job? Or the coach isn't a spectator when it comes to player acquisition? Frankly I'm just quoting for fun because your target keeps moving and you post without acknowledging the responses. I has spaghetti?
 
steelbtexan said:
Look at the Rams, they bring in a new HC with a GM who was already there but understood the system the HC wanted, they invest in FA Suh/Whitworth/Draft Havenstein/Miller/Woods and trade for Watkins/Cooks/Peters/Talib and all of the sudden they're 6-0.

Why couldn't the Texans be a proactive franchise like this? These 2 franchises were in basically the same place 3 yrs ago.
Click to expand...
McVay just stepped into a gold-mine of talent also brimming with ample cap space for FA pick-ups - kinda situation that's tough for a new coach to screw-up.
Spome folks are just real lucky SteelB.
 
steelbtexan said:
Look at the Rams, they bring in a new HC with a GM who was already there but understood the system the HC wanted, they invest in FA Suh/Whitworth/Draft Havenstein/Miller/Woods and trade for Watkins/Cooks/Peters/Talib and all of the sudden they're 6-0.

Why couldn't the Texans be a proactive franchise like this? These 2 franchises were in basically the same place 3 yrs ago.
Click to expand...

Look at the Rams who brought in a legacy with twice the NFL experience at a younger age than our head coach that comes from a franchise that has been throwing out "the next big failure" for 15 years.
 
Scooter said:
Look at the Rams who brought in a legacy with twice the NFL experience at a younger age than our head coach that comes from a franchise that has been throwing out "the next big failure" for 15 years.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but they also were aggressive in FA.

Tell me what have the Texans done the last 2 yrs in FA/Trades compared to the Rams.
 
IDEXAN said:
McVay just stepped into a gold-mine of talent also brimming with ample cap space for FA pick-ups - kinda situation that's tough for a new coach to screw-up.
Spome folks are just real lucky SteelB.
Click to expand...

Seems to me liking going to a team with a good defense, good skill players, and good OL but just needing a QB would be great situation for a "QB guru" to go to.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, but they also were aggressive in FA.

Tell me what have the Texans done the last 2 yrs in FA/Trades compared to the Rams.
Click to expand...

They went out and got Brock Osweiler and Jeff Allen. They also traded a 2nd round pick just to get rid of Osweiler.
 
Scooter said:
Because Kubiak could create an offense himself through coaching, teaching, experience and scheme - but knew he didn't have the coaching talent on defense and tried to compensate with player talent. Except for 2015 (only one), two+ of our first 3 picks have been on offense in O'Brien's tenure (10 out of 15 if you need help), and we've been signing FA linemen and quarterbacks at record pace. What argument are you trying to make again?
Click to expand...

uhhhh don't you know coaching and teaching has almost 0 effect on the professional level? That's why those highly talented 1st rounders are always good, and those no talent losers that go undrafted
steelbtexan said:
(Or maybe because Kubiak had more say in personnel. (Remember all of the Colordo St. players) plus he and Ricky were raised up in the Walsh system.

With Ricky being raised in the Walsh system and BOB raised in the EP system this marriage (If you want to call it that) had no chance to work and frankly if McNair made a stupid hire if he wasn't going to clean house when he fired Kubiak.

It's like the McNair's dont understand the different systems and the type of people in the GM/HC positions to make them work. This kind of foolishness along with not participating in FA has put the Texans where they are today.

Look at the Rams, they bring in a new HC with a GM who was already there but understood the system the HC wanted, they invest in FA Suh/Whitworth/Draft Havenstein/Miller/Woods and trade for Watkins/Cooks/Peters/Talib and all of the sudden they're 6-0.

Why couldn't the Texans be a proactive franchise like this? These 2 franchises were in basically the same place 3 yrs ago.
Click to expand...

How much of that was Snead just being smart enough to listen to his coach and adjust? From memory both Snead and McVay have different NFL upbringings. But also wasn't Smith also in on the head coaching search? Wouldn't Smith probably have given an OK to the hiring of O'Brien? So it's not like McNair was forcing it on him, he listened to what his GM said he could accomplish, which is what I'm sure the Ram's owner did with Snead and McVay.

Also I think Smith and O'Brien worked together a lot on player acquisitions at least until the Osweiler deal created a rift. You see a clear change in philosophy of the players they were drafting, and signing and I doubt Smith wasn't listening to O'Brien during that time. The Osweiler deal caused the rift, O'brien wasn't on board with it he might have been had he gotten a chance to meet with the guy first, but I think just having a QB sprung on him pissed OB off. Cecil Shorts said as much on 610 last week, he said you could tell from the first day of OTAs O'Brien didn't want Osweiler. Os came in and did what he learned to do under Peyton and would take over the meeting room, which Cecil said upset OB. He said you could tell in OTAs and camp that OB wasn't that concerned with making sure Os succeeded while he was here. Which after hearing this to me is probably one of the biggest reasons I want OB gone. I can understand being upset getting saddled with a QB you had no say in, one you might not like. But you owe it to the rest of the players on that roster, and the rest of your staff to try to make him as successful as possible, not hold a petty grudge against a player who other than signing the biggest deal of his life had no part in what unfolded that off season. Last track of where I was going, but Cecil said that's when he noticed OB and Smith's disconnect start.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, but they also were aggressive in FA.

Tell me what have the Texans done the last 2 yrs in FA/Trades compared to the Rams.
Click to expand...

They went out and got Brock Osweiler and Jeff Allen, plus let Brooks/Jones go. They also traded a 2nd round pick just to get rid of Osweiler. They also traded Duane Brown and declined to give up a 3rd rounder for Trent Brown.
 
steelbtexan said:
Why couldn't the Texans be a proactive franchise like this? These 2 franchises were in basically the same place 3 yrs ago.
Click to expand...

We were, you threw a fit every year because you hated Kubiak and Smith. Oops ... those 12 wins and 9 probowlers and best offensive line in the league. But ... Rick Smith is evil, Kubiak sucks and Alex Gibbs coached up all of the great players that weren't actually on the team in the time he was here.
 
steelbtexan said:
He was right too,

Until he went into turtle mode.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much of Kubiak's play calling in his last year had to do with him calling bad plays, or him trying to work with a QB he knew had extreme physical limitations after a major injury, and a young UDFA QB who he knew was no where close to being ready and would run backwards 15 yards at the first sign of pressure
 
TheKDog said:
Seems to me liking going to a team with a good defense, good skill players, and good OL but just needing a QB would be great situation for a "QB guru" to go to.
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Goff of courese was already there but I know you would say well the new coach was responsible for Goff's success. I dunno for sure, kinda a chicken & egg deal.
But I still say McVay was real lucky, real sweet situation he stepped into.
 
Scooter said:
We were, you threw a fit every year because you hated Kubiak and Smith. Oops ... those 12 wins and 9 probowlers and best offensive line in the league. But ... Rick Smith is evil, Kubiak sucks and Alex Gibbs coached up all of the great players that weren't actually on the team in the time he was here.
Click to expand...

Whatever dude

We were never at the level the Rams are already at.

The 12 wins were a mirage, Kubiak actually did his best coaching job that yr. The best team was the 10 win yr and Schaub got hurt. Kubiak did a great job that yr too.
 
IDEXAN said:
Goff of courese was already there but I know you would say well the new coach was responsible for Goff's success. I dunno for sure, kinda a chicken & egg deal.
But I still say McVay was real lucky, real sweet situation he stepped into.
Click to expand...

Yep, he had stars in Gurley/Donald and a young QB in Goff.

The Texans have star players too, but you have to invest in talent to put you over the top. The Rams did in FA/Trades. The Texans not so much.
 
TheKDog said:
They went out and got Brock Osweiler and Jeff Allen, plus let Brooks/Jones go. They also traded a 2nd round pick just to get rid of Osweiler. They also traded Duane Brown and declined to give up a 3rd rounder for Trent Brown.
Click to expand...

If you cant see the difference in what the Rams mgmt has done and the Texans I dont know what to tell you. The Rams added 5 pro bowl level players in FA/Trades. The Texans?
 
Mid-season trades are rare and obviously fraught with challenges, especially around over-paying, and getting your target up to speed. Having said that, this season stands out to me as the kind of exception where it might make sense to pull the trigger if we can make a deal. We're not out of the playoff picture and we have one huge gaping hole that if filled could change the trajectory of the season.

I'm no NFL trade guru, but I do wonder if we're exploring all available options. This article for example lists a couple of possibilities which might make sense.

Pure fantasy, or the kind of bold move an ambitious front office should explore?

https://houseofhouston.com/2018/10/18/houston-texans-left-tackle-davenport/
 
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IDEXAN said:
Goff of courese was already there but I know you would say well the new coach was responsible for Goff's success. I dunno for sure, kinda a chicken & egg deal.
But I still say McVay was real lucky, real sweet situation he stepped into.
Click to expand...

He stepped into a great situation talent wise, but Fisher and his staff weren't utilizing that talent properly. McVay took essentially the same team that went 4-12 to 11-5 the next season. I think if the Rams still had Fisher and his staff we would be talking about Goff as being a potential bust.
 
Shishkabob said:
uhhhh don't you know coaching and teaching has almost 0 effect on the professional level? That's why those highly talented 1st rounders are always good, and those no talent losers that go undrafted


How much of that was Snead just being smart enough to listen to his coach and adjust? From memory both Snead and McVay have different NFL upbringings. But also wasn't Smith also in on the head coaching search? Wouldn't Smith probably have given an OK to the hiring of O'Brien? So it's not like McNair was forcing it on him, he listened to what his GM said he could accomplish, which is what I'm sure the Ram's owner did with Snead and McVay.

Also I think Smith and O'Brien worked together a lot on player acquisitions at least until the Osweiler deal created a rift. You see a clear change in philosophy of the players they were drafting, and signing and I doubt Smith wasn't listening to O'Brien during that time. The Osweiler deal caused the rift, O'brien wasn't on board with it he might have been had he gotten a chance to meet with the guy first, but I think just having a QB sprung on him pissed OB off. Cecil Shorts said as much on 610 last week, he said you could tell from the first day of OTAs O'Brien didn't want Osweiler. Os came in and did what he learned to do under Peyton and would take over the meeting room, which Cecil said upset OB. He said you could tell in OTAs and camp that OB wasn't that concerned with making sure Os succeeded while he was here. Which after hearing this to me is probably one of the biggest reasons I want OB gone. I can understand being upset getting saddled with a QB you had no say in, one you might not like. But you owe it to the rest of the players on that roster, and the rest of your staff to try to make him as successful as possible, not hold a petty grudge against a player who other than signing the biggest deal of his life had no part in what unfolded that off season. Last track of where I was going, but Cecil said that's when he noticed OB and Smith's disconnect start.
Click to expand...

I saw this happening too.

Disagree with how much say Ricky had with the BOB hiring. Bottom line for me was they ended up trying to sabotage each other and Ricky must have had final say since he's no longer here.
 
markn said:
Mid-season trades are rare and obviously fraught with challenges, especially around over-paying, and getting your target up to speed. Having said that, this season stands out to me as the kind of exception where it might make sense to pull the trigger if we can make a deal. We're not out of the playoff picture and we have one huge gaping hole that if filled could change the trajectory of the season.

I'm no NFL trade guru, but I do wonder if we're exploring all available options. This article for example lists a couple of possibilities which might make sense.

Pure fantasy, or the kind of bold move an ambitious front office should explore?

https://houseofhouston.com/2018/10/18/houston-texans-left-tackle-davenport/
Click to expand...

I am open to any and all options at this point honestly. We worked out Chris Clark and decided he wasn't good enough, but the Panther's did and he is playing much better for them than Davenport has played for us
 
steelbtexan said:
Over the hill/Retired pro bowl players.

Ricky made the decision not to pay Brooks.
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1. This response involves expletives.
2. Odd ... 'Ricky' makes the decision not to pay a great player he drafted because a lesser free agent from the Chiefs can be had for the same price.

You have to be trolling.
 
steelbtexan said:
Over the hill/Retired pro bowl players.

Ricky made the decision not to pay Brooks.
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Or did Brooks just not want to be here? Even if Rick had tried to pay Brooks, idk if Brooks would have signed considering his comments after he left. Honestly it was for the best for him though, our medical staff couldn't properly diagnose him here, so he would have kept missing games randomly, and probably would have never developed into the player he is now had he stayed
 
Shishkabob said:
He stepped into a great situation talent wise, but Fisher and his staff weren't utilizing that talent properly. McVay took essentially the same team that went 4-12 to 11-5 the next season. I think if the Rams still had Fisher and his staff we would be talking about Goff as being a potential bust.
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They fixed their OL by adding a 2 starting OT's, a C, an OG plus they added two Wr. This year they went to work on the defense adding Suh,Talib,Peters,Shields. They also added Cooks .The Texans? Surely you can see the difference in the two orgs over the last two years.

Scooter said:
1. This response involves expletives.
2. Odd ... 'Ricky' makes the decision not to pay a great player he drafted because a lesser free agent from the Chiefs can be had for the same price.

You have to be trolling.
Click to expand...

Allen signed up for for less.
 
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Shishkabob said:
Or did Brooks just not want to be here? Even if Rick had tried to pay Brooks, idk if Brooks would have signed considering his comments after he left. Honestly it was for the best for him though, our medical staff couldn't properly diagnose him here, so he would have kept missing games randomly, and probably would have never developed into the player he is now had he stayed
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This I can agree with.
 
Scooter said:
So ... Rick Smith did a good job? Or the coach isn't a spectator when it comes to player acquisition? Frankly I'm just quoting for fun because your target keeps moving and you post without acknowledging the responses. I has spaghetti?
Click to expand...

My stance hasn't change one bit. You just disagree with me. Good news is with BOB/Gaine we will find out who's correct.
 
IDEXAN said:
McVay just stepped into a gold-mine of talent also brimming with ample cap space for FA pick-ups - kinda situation that's tough for a new coach to screw-up.
Spome folks are just real lucky SteelB.
Click to expand...

You mean a situation where 3 starting OL, 3 starting WR's and 2 new TE's have to be replaced in 1 offseason?
 
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