Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!

[banned1976]

It's not anyone's way. It makes no sense cap wise.

Not cap wise but roster wise it does IF the Texans believe Osweiler isn't going to improve. That roster spot could be used on a rookie QB that is on the sidelines right next to Pat O'Hara.

The Texans front office should be thinking about 2018. Let O'Brien and the rest of the coaching staff think about 2017.

It's not going to happen, though. Osweiler will be the starting QB in 2017. And they're not going to carry 4 QB's.

 

[thunderkyss]

Agreed, How much better do you think a new OC can make Os?

I think with avg QB play this team is a super bowl contender. I see no reason to believe Os can't get to avg.

If he turns out to be the clutch guy they may think he is along with avg QB play... if he turns out to be our Flacco, I can see them letting him play out his contract.

I don't see them cutting Os, it isn't the McNair way.

I think it depends. I can't see O'b admitting he screwed up again on the QB position so he'll most likely trot Osweiler out as the starter in 2017 & try his darndest to get his numbers up.

However, if O'b has lost all faith in him, they'll cut him. He'll be a June 1st cut where the dead money is no more than if he were on the roster & we'll save $6M towards the 2018 cap.

If he's on the roster, but not the starter then we'll know O'bs opinion of him is somewhere in between.

I do not believe the boardroom will, or ever has, forced a QB on O'b. I know I've said that in the past, but my opinion has changed to O'b just not knowing how to bring along an inexperienced QB.

Brock isn't an inexperienced QB anymore. He's now Fitzpatrick. We all thought Fitzpatrick sucked before we brought him here & most of us came around to liking the guy & the gritty football player. Maybe O'b can do something similar with Osweiler & like Mercilus had a break out season in year three.... maybe we'll get Fitz like performance in 2017 & a breakout season in 2018.

 

[infantrycak]

Not cap wise but roster wise it does IF the Texans believe Osweiler isn't going to improve. That roster spot could be used on a rookie QB that is on the sidelines right next to Pat O'Hara.

The Texans front office should be thinking about 2018. Let O'Brien and the rest of the coaching staff think about 2017.

It's not going to happen, though. Osweiler will be the starting QB in 2017. And they're not going to carry 4 QB's.

If you want a roster spot you cut Weeden and save $500k on the cap.

 

[steelbtexan]

In Savage's one start, he went for 6 YPA and before he got knocked out against the Titans he was at 3 YPA. Brock had 5 games during the season where he was at/below 5 YPA. Three were in blow out losses in the first half the of the season. The only other time he was below 5 YPA in the second half of the season were the two games against JAX. So basically one team. I think we are trying reeeeeeeally hard to make this out to be a bigger deal that it really is.

I didn't make up the stat. It is what it is 2 times since 1950, 6 times for Os. That's the facts and if this doesn't whatever you want it to I cant help that. I'm sorry Os sucks so bad and wish it weren't true. Do you think I like going out to NRG every Sunday and get the priviledge of watching historically bad QB play? Or when we went to Denver and got to see that awesome forward fumble?

Sad thing is the McNair's are probably going to put the fail that is the Os signing back out there next yr for everyone to see.

 

[steelbtexan]

Playing Devil's advocate. Tom Brady threw 2 INTs & there should have been 3-4.



Most people focus on the negative & I get it. But what separates Brady from the rest, are the plays he does make.

If we have a coach like Kubiak I doubt we'll see a 6th round pick develop the way Brady has. Brady was allowed to make plays, where I think Schaub was continuously instructed not to make mistakes.

As far as missing many WRs for big gains. Yes there is a lot of that, I'm not denying & never have. However, I feel that could very easily be part of learning this complicated offense at the QB position as well as receiver. If you watched the all 22, you'll notice he throws to the guy who gets open first. He's not passing up an open receiver. May be because he doesn't trust his protection.

If he were as athletic as Brian Hoyer, he could buy himself some time to allow a receiver to get open, but he's not. Play breaks down, he needs to be running for the sideline. He's a straight up Pocket Passer, much like Carr in that he's athletic enough to pick up a first down every now & then, but he's not going to buy time & create on his own.

Big difference, Brady only threw 2 picks all season before that playoff game. Os threw 2 picks a game or more regularly. Another difference is Brady is one of the most accurate QB's of all time. Comparing Os accuracy to Brady's is laughable.

I get it, as a fan your looking for something to say Os will be a decent QB next yr since the McNair's are going to run him out there again. I'm saying it's not going to happen. # historically bad

 

[thunderkyss]

Big difference, Brady only threw 2 picks all season before that playoff game. Os threw 2 picks a game or more regularly. Another difference is Brady is one of the most accurate QB's of all time. Comparing Os accuracy to Brady's is laughable.

I get it, as a fan your looking for something to say Os will be a decent QB next yr since the McNair's are going to run him out there again. I'm saying it's not going to happen. # historically bad

No... that's not it.

If DocBar meant that it is unacceptable to throw a bunch of INTs including three in that playoff game I'm sure that's what he would have said.

I also think using the number of INTs as a measure of "accuracy" is laughable. It's like saying Tom Brady was accurate all year long, but not in the divisional round of the playoffs.

Doesn't make sense. It wasn't "inaccuracy" that lead to Brady's two, possible 4, INTs.

 

[MightyTExan]

It's win-win scenario. If BO plays well and the Texans win, great. If he stinks up the field and the Texans lose they don't have to go to Foxboro and be humiliated again on national television.

No... that's not it.

If DocBar meant that it is unacceptable to throw a bunch of INTs including three in that playoff game I'm sure that's what he would have said.

I also think using the number of INTs as a measure of "accuracy" is laughable. It's like saying Tom Brady was accurate all year long, but not in the divisional round of the playoffs.

Doesn't make sense. It wasn't "inaccuracy" that lead to Brady's two, possible 4, INTs.

 

[TexansSeminole]

I'd challenge that Brady threw four should be INTs, but it's simply not worth it.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'd challenge that Brady threw four should be INTs, but it's simply not worth it.

How about the two that he did throw. Were they due to inaccuracy?

 

[TexansSeminole]

If you want a roster spot you cut Weeden and save $500k on the cap.

My understanding is that if we cut Weeden, it's a savings of $2.1M. That's much more likely than cutting BO, I agree.

 

[TexansSeminole]

How about the two that he did throw. Were they due to inaccuracy?

One was a drop by a receiver. You could argue inaccuracy because it wasn't perfect but I wouldn't. The other was that he just didn't see McKinney and/or didn't think McKinney could get in the passing lane. So, no, but your overall point still falls flat.

 

[thunderkyss]

One was a drop by a receiver. You could argue inaccuracy because it wasn't perfect but I wouldn't. The other was that he just didn't see McKinney and/or didn't think McKinney could get in the passing lane. So, no, but your overall point still falls flat.

You just said neither of Tom Brady's INTs were attributed to accuracy. How is my point a fail? & just so we're clear, what do you think my point is?

 

[steelbtexan]

No... that's not it.

If DocBar meant that it is unacceptable to throw a bunch of INTs including three in that playoff game I'm sure that's what he would have said.

I also think using the number of INTs as a measure of "accuracy" is laughable. It's like saying Tom Brady was accurate all year long, but not in the divisional round of the playoffs.

Doesn't make sense. It wasn't "inaccuracy" that lead to Brady's two, possible 4, INTs.

The fact that he's had 4 ints all yr says everything.

 

[Number19]

FYI, prior to the June 1st cuts, the Texans will have OTA workouts on May 23, 24, 26 and 31. There's also workouts June 1 and 2.

The remaining workout dates are June 6, 7, 9 and 10; with the mandatory minicamp June 14, 15 and 16.

 

[banned1976]

If you want a roster spot you cut Weeden and save $500k on the cap.

It really doesn't matter. All 3 of them are unworthy of a roster spot. That is the sad state of Texans QB's these days.

 

[thunderkyss]

The fact that he's had 4 ints all yr says everything.

It says he makes good decisions.

 

[sandman]

I didn't make up the stat. It is what it is 2 times since 1950, 6 times for Os. That's the facts and if this doesn't whatever you want it to I cant help that. I'm sorry Os sucks so bad and wish it weren't true. Do you think I like going out to NRG every Sunday and get the priviledge of watching historically bad QB play? Or when we went to Denver and got to see that awesome forward fumble?

Sad thing is the McNair's are probably going to put the fail that is the Os signing back out there next yr for everyone to see.

I'm not sure I understand this stat that you are throwing around. You're basically saying that only two other games since 1950 has a QB thrown for 5YPA or less. Because you're attributing it to Brock 6 times, so I am assuming this is a stat based on single game performances.

 

[DocBar]

No... that's not it.

If DocBar meant that it is unacceptable to throw a bunch of INTs including three in that playoff game I'm sure that's what he would have said.

I also think using the number of INTs as a measure of "accuracy" is laughable. It's like saying Tom Brady was accurate all year long, but not in the divisional round of the playoffs.

Doesn't make sense. It wasn't "inaccuracy" that lead to Brady's two, possible 4, INTs.

I find it laughable to suggest that INT's are not a way to measure accuracy. Accurate throws don't get intercepted unless tipped.

Brady was definitely off his game in the div. rnd. The pressure was getting to him from up the middle and from the edges. That's the book on how to beat Brady.

And I'm devil's advocating a bit here, too.

 

[TexansSeminole]

You just said neither of Tom Brady's INTs were attributed to accuracy. How is my point a fail? & just so we're clear, what do you think my point is?

Your overall point was that using INTs as a measure of accuracy is laughable. You used Brady's INTs as an example of this.

I'm saying INTs are a good measure of accuracy, but obviously it's not the entire story.

Brock's INTs were due to a combination of inaccuracy and poor decisions. Up the seem to Griffin was totally inaccurate, although also a poor decision. One to Hopkins over the middle was a good decision, poor accuracy. One to Hopkins along the sideline was again poor decision and inaccurate.

Regardless, there's plenty to show that Brock struggles with accuracy, so we can just move on from this pointless conversation.

 

[Flyingfish]

TK, you said "Brady was allowed to make plays, where I think Schaub was continuously instructed not to make mistakes." Damn, I wish Kubes had followed that advice and given it to his old friend Rick Smith when evaluating QB's.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut]

Brocks accuracy and decision making get better when the offense doesn't follow the same pointless and predictable patterns.

I am not saying he is without blame but not as much blame as he gets.

Next season will give coach and Os more time to work together and it may turn out better for both.

Not expected but it could be possible.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Brocks accuracy and decision making get better when the offense doesn't follow the same pointless and predictable patterns.

I am not saying he is without blame but not as much blame as he gets.

Next season will give coach and Os more time to work together and it may turn out better for both.

Not expected but it could be possible.

I don't agree with this, but I'm curious as to why you think his accuracy and decision making improve when the offense doesn't follow patterns?

Also, is there an example of this happening?

 

[Speedy]

Not disagreeing with anything you are saying here, other than the Bortles thing. I'm sure that you were going with the angle of him being a dumpster fire and even he doesn't do the 5YPA like Brock. But Bortles also has 10 career Pick-6's against 11 career wins. I'll take 5 YPA over that any day if I am choosing between the two.

I don't want either one of them. They both suck and this having to settle for the prettiest turd at QB sucks.

 

[zshawn10]

He needs to step up and I hope that’s what he would do.” Bob McNair on Brock Osweiler. #Texans

We need better performance out of that position. We thought we had it and it didn’t quite measure up.” McNair on Brock Osweiler.

https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826885219508748292

https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826885717326446593

 

[76Texan]

He needs to step up and I hope that’s what he would do.” Bob McNair on Brock Osweiler. #Texans

We need better performance out of that position. We thought we had it and it didn’t quite measure up.” McNair on Brock Osweiler.

https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826885219508748292

https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826885717326446593

Mr McNair.

Hope is not a strategy.

But while you're hoping, I hope that having Terry Bradshaw and Jimmy Johnson tearing it in your own back yard wake you up.

 

[thunderkyss]

I find it laughable to suggest that INT's are not a way to measure accuracy. Accurate throws don't get intercepted unless tipped.

Brady was definitely off his game in the div. rnd. The pressure was getting to him from up the middle and from the edges. That's the book on how to beat Brady.

And I'm devil's advocating a bit here, too.

No doubt pressure attributed to the decisions he made & he probably didn't put it exactly where he wanted it..... but the one where he didn't see McKinney... that wasn't an accuracy issue. Poor decision, plain & simple.

 

[DocBar]

No doubt pressure attributed to the decisions he made & he probably didn't put it exactly where he wanted it..... but the one where he didn't see McKinney... that wasn't an accuracy issue. Poor decision, plain & simple.

Every QB wilts a bit under heavy pressure to some degree or another. Os wilts at the thought of pressure.

 

[otisbean]

I don't agree with this, but I'm curious as to why you think his accuracy and decision making improve when the offense doesn't follow patterns?

Also, is there an example of this happening?

I agree 100%. Playcalling has Zero effect on decision making and accuracy. Play calling can effect the offenses overall performance as can a QB's decision making and accuracy, maybe that's where fans get confused.

You did a great job highlighting all the open WRs that BO missed in the Pats game. His decision making led to a lack of performance on O and to be perfectly fair, Fuller and CJ had big drops so that didn't help as well

 

[thunderkyss]

Brock's INTs were due to a combination of inaccuracy and poor decisions. Up the seem to Griffin was totally inaccurate, although also a poor decision. One to Hopkins over the middle was a good decision, poor accuracy. One to Hopkins along the sideline was again poor decision and inaccurate.

I think the throw up the seam to Griffin was miscomunication between the QB & the receiver. We've seen that throw many times & it made up a big part of CjF's receiving yards. At some point, Griffin was going to turn that route inside. Brock obviously thought he was going to cut inside sooner than Griffin did. I say obvious because of Brock's reaction.

Same with the throw to the outside where Fuller cut inside. Looked like Brock was expecting a hook. It wasn't an INT, but still points to the accuracy thing.

The high throw to Hopkins, looks like it got away from him & may have been an inaccurate throw.

The one to the sideline to Hopkins. The ball was definitely thrown behind Nuk. I don't know if that was on purpose, or he just couldn't put it where he wanted it. Schaub used to make the same kind of throw all the time & he said he did it on purpose.... & the DB made a good play on the ball, so I'd have to talk to Brock, or Brock would have to say something to make me believe he does it on purpose, or not before I can say that INT was due to inaccuracy.

His completion percentage points to inaccuracy though. A whole lot more than his number of INTs do.


It's not like we say his TD passes demonstrates how accurate he is. & the two are usually discussed in relationship to one another. A 2:1 ratio is good, a 3:1 ratio or better is franchise QB stuff. Are we saying he's accurate on 3 throws to every one that he's innacurate?

If that's the case... great. I learn something new all the time. I don't have a problem with that.

 

[jradMIT]

You can't win with a 3.0 INT % and a 5 YPA those are well below replacement level so it would be hard to be worse. Its just so hard to have any hope because Brock just simply doesn't move the ball or sustain drives coupled with a propensity for INT's. One or the other is bad enough, but both together almost seems insurmountable. But make no mistake Brock was historically bad, it would be hard for him not to improve, in fact even if he did improve significantly, he would still be bad. I played around with his stats to see what his QB rating would look like if I added good plays, you have to add 8Td's of 50 yards to his stats to get him to crack 80 (which is a bad number). Think about that if he threw a bomb for a score every other game, he still would have been a well below average QB. Demonstrates how terrible he is and even with lots of improvement he has so far to go to a QB to rely on.

 

[thunderkyss]

Every QB wilts a bit under heavy pressure to some degree or another. Os wilts at the thought of pressure.

Funny.

I thought that was definitely true at the beginning of the season. I think he made improvements all throughout the season where he "looked" like an NFL QB at the end of the season, in regards to how he reacted to pressure.

In that game, he had a couple of Houdini moments, kept his head & picked up a first down with his legs.

This is the way I look at it.

A couple of years ago people were pointing to Derek Carr's numbers & lamenting that we didn't draft him when we had the chance. I said to myself that those numbers look great, but I'd like to see him put up those numbers in a winning season before I say the Texans made a mistake..... the Texans made a mistake.

Conversely, Brock won 8 games, had poor numbers & looked bad at times (most of the time). I know he benefited from a really good defense. They made plays when plays needed to be made. & I know our running game was among the best in the league, but we had what... 8 rushing TDs? & two of them were Brock's.

Brock's bad numbers don't bother me so much. Especially knowing he was learning this offense, the receivers were learning this offense, that the OL was dealing with injuries & shuffling to start the season, the OC wasn't cutting it. What happened in the QB room, when they're reviewing games & preparing for games would help me determine whether or not it's worth going forward with him.

 

[thunderkyss]

I agree 100%. Playcalling has Zero effect on decision making and accuracy. Play calling can effect the offenses overall performance as can a QB's decision making and accuracy, maybe that's where fans get confused.

There were several drives throughout the year that Brock was 7 for 7 or 4 for 5, or 11 of 14 or something to that effect. When they got in their hurry up no huddle mode he looked pretty dang accurate making some pretty big time throws.

There were even more possessions where he was 0 for 5..... I'm not denying that.

But when they were able to get him in a rhythm, he didn't look half bad.

You did a great job highlighting all the open WRs that BO missed in the Pats game. His decision making led to a lack of performance on O and to be perfectly fair, Fuller and CJ had big drops so that didn't help as well

I personally think a second year in this offense would help Osweiler out tremendously. I think he would miss those open receivers less. He should be able to anticipate things better.

 

[DocBar]

I think the throw up the seam to Griffin was miscomunication between the QB & the receiver. We've seen that throw many times & it made up a big part of CjF's receiving yards. At some point, Griffin was going to turn that route inside. Brock obviously thought he was going to cut inside sooner than Griffin did. I say obvious because of Brock's reaction.

Same with the throw to the outside where Fuller cut inside. Looked like Brock was expecting a hook. It wasn't an INT, but still points to the accuracy thing.

The high throw to Hopkins, looks like it got away from him & may have been an inaccurate throw.

The one to the sideline to Hopkins. The ball was definitely thrown behind Nuk. I don't know if that was on purpose, or he just couldn't put it where he wanted it. Schaub used to make the same kind of throw all the time & he said he did it on purpose.... & the DB made a good play on the ball, so I'd have to talk to Brock, or Brock would have to say something to make me believe he does it on purpose, or not before I can say that INT was due to inaccuracy.

His completion percentage points to inaccuracy though. A whole lot more than his number of INTs do.


It's not like we say his TD passes demonstrates how accurate he is. & the two are usually discussed in relationship to one another. A 2:1 ratio is good, a 3:1 ratio or better is franchise QB stuff. Are we saying he's accurate on 3 throws to every one that he's innacurate?

If that's the case... great. I learn something new all the time. I don't have a problem with that.

The route reading and being on the same page makes some of Os' throws hard to judge, but the ones where the throw is either in the dirt or sail high do more than enough to spell out his accuracy issues. I'll even give on the INT issue, given that half of them were thrown in Hopkins direction. I've been pretty clear on my thoughts on Hopkins this year.

 

[thunderkyss]

You can't win with a 3.0 INT % and a 5 YPA those are well below replacement level so it would be hard to be worse. Its just so hard to have any hope because Brock just simply doesn't move the ball or sustain drives coupled with a propensity for INT's. One or the other is bad enough, but both together almost seems insurmountable. But make no mistake Brock was historically bad, it would be hard for him not to improve, in fact even if he did improve significantly, he would still be bad.

You're right... I might say he'd be average if he were to improve significantly, but it's not worth arguing that point.

The amount of improvement he would have to make just to earn his guaranteed salary is inconceivable.

I can totally understand if the Texans made him a June 1st cut & moved on.

 

[thunderkyss]

The route reading and being on the same page makes some of Os' throws hard to judge, but the ones where the throw is either in the dirt or sail high do more than enough to spell out his accuracy issues. I'll even give on the INT issue, given that half of them were thrown in Hopkins direction. I've been pretty clear on my thoughts on Hopkins this year.

How would you feel if Three of those touchdown passes were caught? The one to CjF on the left side. The one to Fuller on the left side & the deep one over the middle? Add that to the TD Griffin did score & the Texans score 28 points in that game.

Take away that third interception because the situation, the score, he was pressing on that drive.

Everything else the same. We couldn't move the ball. The Patriots score 34. We lose.

 

[76Texan]

You're right... I might say he'd be average if he were to improve significantly, but it's not worth arguing that point.

The amount of improvement he would have to make just to earn his guaranteed salary is inconceivable.

I can totally understand if the Texans made him a June 1st cut & moved on.

It's pure and simple.
Guys that are paid at mid level should be able to play at mid level.

Osweiler did not perform to that level.
We already know about the HC and the GM.
It was the first season in Texans history that I did not look forward to.
Bradshaw doesn't have any affiliation with the team.
I love the Texans , but... oh well nevermind.
I just feel bad for the many other players on the team.

 

[DocBar]

Funny.

I thought that was definitely true at the beginning of the season. I think he made improvements all throughout the season where he "looked" like an NFL QB at the end of the season, in regards to how he reacted to pressure.

In that game, he had a couple of Houdini moments, kept his head & picked up a first down with his legs.

This is the way I look at it.

A couple of years ago people were pointing to Derek Carr's numbers & lamenting that we didn't draft him when we had the chance. I said to myself that those numbers look great, but I'd like to see him put up those numbers in a winning season before I say the Texans made a mistake..... the Texans made a mistake.

Conversely, Brock won 8 games, had poor numbers & looked bad at times (most of the time). I know he benefited from a really good defense. They made plays when plays needed to be made. & I know our running game was among the best in the league, but we had what... 8 rushing TDs? & two of them were Brock's.

Brock's bad numbers don't bother me so much. Especially knowing he was learning this offense, the receivers were learning this offense, that the OL was dealing with injuries & shuffling to start the season, the OC wasn't cutting it. What happened in the QB room, when they're reviewing games & preparing for games would help me determine whether or not it's worth going forward with him.

Os made some good scrambles. Not denying that. Os regressed during the season imho. He started feeling pressure that wasn't there and his mechanics went to ****.

 

[cuppacoffee]

I'll repeat myself: It appears to me that the Texans owner has put OBrien in a fish or cut bait position.

Make this complicated offense / and Os work as advertised or you will both be gone after next season.

As stated above, there is nothing to gain and much to lose if we cut Os now.

The pieces are now in place to replace O'Brien and chances are we will draft a Qb in this years draft to replace Os. Savage is given every chance in 2018.

That's if Savage doesn't happen sooner. Which appears likely to me.

We very well might see RAC as placeholder HC in 2018.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm not sure I understand this stat that you are throwing around. You're basically saying that only two other games since 1950 has a QB thrown for 5YPA or less. Because you're attributing it to Brock 6 times, so I am assuming this is a stat based on single game performances.

A QB that throws 40 or more times a game and averages less that 5 yds a completion has only happened twice since 1950. Os did it 6 times this yr.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'll repeat myself: It appears to me that the Texans owner has put OBrien in a fish or cut bait position.

Make this complicated offense / and Os work as advertised or you will both be gone after next season.

As stated above, there is nothing to gain and much to lose if we cut Os now.

The pieces are now in place to replace O'Brien and chances are we will draft a Qb in this years draft to replace Os. Savage is given every chance in 2018.

That's if Savage doesn't happen sooner. Which appears likely to me.

We very well might see RAC as placeholder HC in 2018.

Yep, BOB is being set up to fail and starting Os almost assuredly means BOB's gone. Sad really, especially if Os is Ricky McNair's boy.

 

[otisbean]

There were several drives throughout the year that Brock was 7 for 7 or 4 for 5, or 11 of 14 or something to that effect. When they got in their hurry up no huddle mode he looked pretty dang accurate making some pretty big time throws.

There were even more possessions where he was 0 for 5..... I'm not denying that.

But when they were able to get him in a rhythm, he didn't look half bad.



I personally think a second year in this offense would help Osweiler out tremendously. I think he would miss those open receivers less. He should be able to anticipate things better.

I agree with you but in your first paragraph your talking more about the rhythm vs the play calls themselves.

I'm rooting for him to get much better but I would be working on grabbing another QB If we can somehow someway find a true number and Brock gets better perhaps we could trade Brock after next season.

 

[Here's Johnny!]

On the one hand, I want to never see Bross Oswaller ever again ever.

On the other, I'd miss his inspiring post-game pep talks after losing a game.

 

[TexansSeminole]

I think the throw up the seam to Griffin was miscomunication between the QB & the receiver. We've seen that throw many times & it made up a big part of CjF's receiving yards. At some point, Griffin was going to turn that route inside. Brock obviously thought he was going to cut inside sooner than Griffin did. I say obvious because of Brock's reaction.

Same with the throw to the outside where Fuller cut inside. Looked like Brock was expecting a hook. It wasn't an INT, but still points to the accuracy thing.

The high throw to Hopkins, looks like it got away from him & may have been an inaccurate throw.

The one to the sideline to Hopkins. The ball was definitely thrown behind Nuk. I don't know if that was on purpose, or he just couldn't put it where he wanted it. Schaub used to make the same kind of throw all the time & he said he did it on purpose.... & the DB made a good play on the ball, so I'd have to talk to Brock, or Brock would have to say something to make me believe he does it on purpose, or not before I can say that INT was due to inaccuracy.

His completion percentage points to inaccuracy though. A whole lot more than his number of INTs do.


It's not like we say his TD passes demonstrates how accurate he is. & the two are usually discussed in relationship to one another. A 2:1 ratio is good, a 3:1 ratio or better is franchise QB stuff. Are we saying he's accurate on 3 throws to every one that he's innacurate?

If that's the case... great. I learn something new all the time. I don't have a problem with that.

I mean, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on alot of this stuff because I don't agree on basically 80% of what you said.

It's possible that Griffin ran the wrong route, but doesn't appear likely as it's way downfield and the throw is high, like 5 yards overthrown high.

I have no idea if Fuller ran the wrong route, but it didn't appear that way. Looked like a pretty clear play where he ran an in route and was wide open, so it worked, and the throw was just not there.

Agree on high throw over middle to Hopkins.

Sideline throw the Hopkins, couldn't disagree more and almost makes me wonder if we are talking about the same play. If Brock throws it low and short, maybe it's complete. That's the only way he can complete that pass, otherwise it's probably intercepted. He didn't throw it behind Hopkins, that would actually have been better, higher chance of just an incomplete pass. He threw it high and he didn't put anything on it. Just a clear cut, textbook interception on a sideline far side out route.

I'm not sure that we are going to agree on most of this stuff. It appears that way.

 

[thunderkyss]

I agree with you but in your first paragraph your talking more about the rhythm vs the play calls themselves.

I'm rooting for him to get much better but I would be working on grabbing another QB If we can somehow someway find a true number and Brock gets better perhaps we could trade Brock after next season.

Agreed. Ricky McNair was able to trade Schaub, Fitzpatrick, & Case for something. Surely he can get a new washing machine for the jockstraps.

 

[thunderkyss]

It's possible that Griffin ran the wrong route, but doesn't appear likely as it's way downfield and the throw is high, like 5 yards overthrown high.

I have no idea if Fuller ran the wrong route, but it didn't appear that way. Looked like a pretty clear play where he ran an in route and was wide open, so it worked, and the throw was just not there.

I don't know that Griffin or Fuller ran the wrong route. I believe Osweiler expected them to run a different route. It's just as likely that Brock was wrong.

 

[TexansSeminole]

I don't know that Griffin or Fuller ran the wrong route. I believe Osweiler expected them to run a different route. It's just as likely that Brock was wrong.

Griffin running that "jump 10 feet in the air" route.

 

[steelbtexan]

Griffin running that "jump 10 feet in the air" route.

A staple in the Os arsenal.

 

[klockWork]

Playing Devil's advocate. Tom Brady threw 2 INTs & there should have been 3-4.



Most people focus on the negative & I get it. But what separates Brady from the rest, are the plays he does make.

If we have a coach like Kubiak I doubt we'll see a 6th round pick develop the way Brady has. Brady was allowed to make plays, where I think Schaub was continuously instructed not to make mistakes.

As far as missing many WRs for big gains. Yes there is a lot of that, I'm not denying & never have. However, I feel that could very easily be part of learning this complicated offense at the QB position as well as receiver. If you watched the all 22, you'll notice he throws to the guy who gets open first. He's not passing up an open receiver. May be because he doesn't trust his protection.

If he were as athletic as Brian Hoyer , he could buy himself some time to allow a receiver to get open, but he's not. Play breaks down, he needs to be running for the sideline. He's a straight up Pocket Passer, much like Carr in that he's athletic enough to pick up a first down every now & then, but he's not going to buy time & create on his own.

That is a very odd observation. Hoyer has average mobility at best, certainly not as mobile as Brock who was a former basketball player. The fact that nobody has called you out on that makes me think I'm watching the game of football from a different perspective than most fans. Brady and Manning buy themselves plenty of time in the pockets and Brock could run circles around them in a field agility test. But it's their pocket presence that allowed them that extra time. Knowing where and when to sidestep or step up from the pocket could buy you a couple of seconds, an eternity in the world of NFL. Sometimes your OL is not in the best position to block a defender but a qb with pocket presence can help out greatly by stepping to a spot that put his OL back in a more advantageous position of blocking a guy. Brock future career as starting QB is utterly hopeless without that attribute.

 

[sandman]

A QB that throws 40 or more times a game and averages less that 5 yds a completion has only happened twice since 1950. Os did it 6 times this yr.

Holy crap, you have that stat completely wrong.

NFL Research stated correctly that 4x this year Brock had 40 attempts with less than 200 yards.

Ian Rappoport makes this claim with no link to data: No other player since 1950 has done it twice.

No where does either NFL Research or Ian Rappaport state that it is has only been done twice ever since 1950 outside of Osweiler.

Rappoport states that those QB's who have done it have never done it twice. Yet, the first reply to his tweet (see link below) corrects his statement, saying that since 1950 no other QB since 1950 has done it MORE THAN TWO TIMES IN A SINGLE SEASON and that four QB's in the last six years have done it twice in a season.

It's a bad stat even at four times, but you are being grossly negligent with the facts when you keep saying it's only been done twice since 1950 and Brock did it six times.

Here is the original tweet from NFL Research regarding Brock's 4x:

https://twitter.com/nflresearch/status/820495596704280576

Here is Ian Rappaport stating that since 1950, no other QB has had more than 1x:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/820602106528886784?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

I just did an extensive check of his Twitter feed. No rebuttal to the correction of his data-less claim.

As I said earlier in this thread. This stat is getting blown waaaaaaaay out of proportion.

 

[DocBar]

A QB that throws 40 or more times a game and averages less that 5 yds a completion has only happened twice since 1950. Os did it 6 times this yr.

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