EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Aaron Rodgers is the MVP and it's not even close.
Yeah in a league where you can't even touch opposing WRs....Give me a break, what JJ is doing is way more MVP worthy than A.R.
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Aaron Rodgers is the MVP and it's not even close.
Aaron Rodgers is the MVP and it's not even close.
A real MVP contributes in all phases of the game right?
If you were starting all the franchises from scratch, lined every player up against the wall in a school yard style pick up, where does Watt get selected?
Probably behind Luck and Rogers.
I think that's about right. So in the truest sense, JJ isn't currently the most valuable player. But as others have noted, that's almost always going to be the hottest QB, and that's the way the award goes, and it won't change. Sad but true.Probably behind Luck and Rogers.
A real MVP contributes in all phases of the game right?
If you were starting all the franchises from scratch, lined every player up against the wall in a school yard style pick up, where does Watt get selected?
I think that's about right. So in the truest sense, JJ isn't currently the most valuable player. But as others have noted, that's almost always going to be the hottest QB, and that's the way the award goes, and it won't change. Sad but true.
JJ is getting plenty of well deserved recognition, and I've never really cared much for individual gongs in team sports, so I guess I'm in the "So Watt" camp.
Im not. Steph Stradley retweeted the link. odd
Try the link directly from the tweet:
https://twitter.com/SInow/status/540379339096080384
Watt vs. other DEs
First, let's take a look at how far out on his own Watt is compared to the rest of his peers. In the following chart, Watt's data point is represented by the red star in the far upper-right region, with everyone else occupying a different territory entirely:
He holds the best three single-season grades at Pro Football Focus among 3-4 defensive ends. That's including this season, without even projecting his current grade out over 16 games; he is so good that 12 games of his 2014 season is already better than a full 16 games from anybody else.
Watt vs. players at other positions
• So let's start translating those numbers into quarterback play. Five thousand yards was once the all-time benchmark for passers. Dan Marino was the first player to cross that barrier, back in 1984, and it wasn't until 2008 that somebody did it again (Drew Brees). Now the mark has been broken eight times by five different quarterbacks, including at least one player eclipsing it each of the past three seasons.
If we assume that 5,000 yards represents a fair representation of the "best of the best," what would Watt be doing right now in quarterback terms? Based on the level of dominance over his 3-4 defensive end peers, he would be passing for a 7,100-yard season. If we translated it to touchdown passes, he would be throwing more than 70.
• How about running backs? Again, 2,000 yards is the great benchmark for running backs. That barrier has been surpassed just seven times in NFL history. If we assume that as our benchmark, then Watt would be rushing for 2,840 yards in a season.
• No receiver has ever broken 2,000 receiving yards in a season. Calvin Johnson came the closest, with 1,964 in 2012, but 16 players have broken the 1,600-yard mark. If we use that as our benchmark, then Watt's dominance represents a 2,272-yard receiving season, not just crossing into uncharted territory, but smashing right through the barrier and beyond.
Brooks Reed has stats? Maybe sand fleas have stats. Maybe even blind watermellons have stats. But Brooks Reed?
The Outlier. I kinda like that as a nickname.
would love to see it...but a defensive player winning the MVP won't happen again in my life time....
Unfortunately, I think the only way for a defensive player to win the MVP is if all the elite QBs have either an off year or are injured.
It's not right, but that's just the way it is in today's NFL.
Perception is reality for those with the power to vote, and they obviously perceive the elite QBs to be at the top of the MVP pyramid unless a RB has a phenomenal year.
J.J., and Texans fans, are just going to have to be content with another DPOY award. Two in three seasons is amazing in and of itself.
If we were to get to the play offs on the strength of our defense, I could see Jj Watt having a good shot at the MVP. If the defense starts shut down our next four opponents & we end up winning the division.... I'd be on that "Jj Watt should win the MVP" wagon, but right now... nope. He's great, fun to watch but he's not changing games the way an MVP should.
Shut down Andrew Luck. Shut down Joe Flacco. Then we can talk.
Sorry to hear you're feeling so poorly.
Oh, I missed this post. You have a fair point. I guess I was trying to find a quick and easy way to say that he seems to be in on more of the key defensive plays than he's been in previously (except maybe in 2011? not sure). Maybe I just tend to key in on his name/number and it results in a false impression of Reed's play.Brooks Reed has stats? Maybe sand fleas have stats. Maybe even blind watermellons have stats. But Brooks Reed?
I'm just the messenger. If you want to win in Indy, Jj Watt's going to have to play like the MVP. Luck's going to have to have a very, very bad game.
but to say that JJ is not changing games?
Against the Bills... c'mon.
If he can harrass Luck or Flacco the way he scares the bejeebus out of Ej Manuel or a gimpy RGIII, then he'll earn an MVP discussion. As is, Romo, Luck, even Eli had his way with our defense.
So he didn't overcome a shitty offense in those games and couldn't erase the crappy play of 10 others on defense.
But you can't tell me he didn't make an impact in those games
No one, not even Rodgers can overcome suck by 21 other guys
You're right. I guess I just look at it differently.
Aaron Rodgers has the 19th rushing attack in the league & the 25th ranked defense (15th in points). But Jj has to overcome the suck of 21 other guys.
What was I thinking.
edit: I know you're just stirring the pot TK Don't know why I keep falling for it
I know I've got a bit of a rep for stirring the pot.
If anyone wants Jj to be the MVP, then we need to finish strong, get to the play offs & make some noise. It would really, really help if he helps to keep Luck & Flacco from scoring 30 points on us.
If you're going to judge MVP based on wins, then how was Carson Palmer not really ever in serious conversations about the award? Drew Stanton isn't really kicking butt and taking names, so obviously Carson Palmer was a large part of the reason the Cards were tearing it up.I know I've got a bit of a rep for stirring the pot.
But the point is to win games. Our fans are saying that we'd be lucky to get to 8-8 this year, but we've got the best defensive player in the league....
Arian Foster is 6th in yards after missing three games.
DeAndre Hopkins is 9th in yards & he isn't even our best WR (arguable sure).
We're 13th in scoring, offensively....
We should expect to finish (& should have the whole time, at least since week 4) 9-7 or better.
If anyone wants Jj to be the MVP, then we need to finish strong, get to the play offs & make some noise. It would really, really help if he helps to keep Luck & Flacco from scoring 30 points on us.
If you're going to judge MVP based on wins, then how was Carson Palmer not really ever in serious conversations about the award? Drew Stanton isn't really kicking butt and taking names, so obviously Carson Palmer was a large part of the reason the Cards were tearing it up.
I looked for an eyeroll smiley and didn't see one, am I blind?
can you tell me that the only players in the NFL that are playing well are quarterbacks?
Arguing that a QB is more valuable is counter-intuitive, if you think about it. What you're basically saying is any good QB (not even great) is more valuable than a guy that is doing things no other defensive player has ever done. So Philip Rivers or Matt Ryan or similar is more deserving of MVP votes than JJ Watt. The underlying premise to that line of thought, whether you realize it or not, is that QBs are more valuable because they affect the game much more directly. They do that because the rules have been altered to make that the case. Which means any QB can affect the game much more directly than any defensive player. Therefore, nothing any QB does is special. Even the greatest ones are only exploiting the advantages provided to them by the rules.
JJ Watt, on the other hand, says fk the rules. He gets held, he gets double teamed (often with a third chip), he gets called for penalties for hitting the QB, he gets fined, and he suffers the detriment of playing in a system that facilitates QBs getting the ball out to any number of receivers very quickly, because those receivers can't be impeded in any way, or really even tackled hard until they've secured the ball. All this, and he still wrecks opponents' offensive game plans. he keeps offensive coordinators and QBs busy all week. He keeps OLmen up at night. And he is so much better than his contemporaries that it's ridiculous. The best QBs in the game are only moderately better than their "good" contemporaries. I mean, how much better is Aaron Rodgers than Philip Rivers? Better, for sure, but not by the type of margin of dominance that Watt has established over his contemporaries.
The argument that a QB affects games more directly and is therefore more deserving of the MVP award is lazy and not intellectually sound.
They should use the "if you had the first pick in the draft" question to decide.
First pick, and Rodgers, Brady, Manning, and Watt are there.
Who do you take?
Defense wins championships baby, I go with Corn-Fed Jesus ...
That would be an easy choice. Pick Watt and you have two of the other three to pick from while the other side has to keep one on the bench.
His path to winning the MVP requires a dominant final four weeks of the year. All of the following needs to happen:
The Texans need to win the AFC South.
Watt needs to get to 20 sacks.
He needs to tie or set the record for touchdowns by a defensive player.
The top offensive candidates need to cancel each other out.
They need to just handout two awards really. The MVP and the MOP,most outstanding player award because in this day and age, qbs will win the mvp award almost every time and if not, it will surely be an offensive player.
I think when I was playing Madden 05 I went into Al Davis mode and drafted the fastest guys in the game and just outran everyone.to follow the previous thought, I add on with a bit of 80 proof - so take it as is.
as a gaming generation, most of us have literally played out this scenario repeatedly on consoles and PC's through fantasy drafts. who did you take?
I'd have no problem voting for Watt as the most outstanding player... though right now, it's a close race between him & Demarco Murray. Yeah, I know there's a list of RBs who've hit the 2000 mark & Murray more than likely comes up short. But, to do it in a QB driven league is still pretty outstanding.
But...this is a QB driven league. The rules are designed for the QB to pass the ball effectively. A good QB can impact a game. A great QB can dominate a game. Even a mediocre QB can, on a career day. That is the nature of the NFL that we witness today.