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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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Texecutioner said:
Announcing a game as an analyst has nothing to do with coaching football.

Nothing at all.

Might as well suggest that we should put Arian Foster out there to coach because he played and he has a podcast where he shares some things that a few people agree with from time to time.
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Not sure why you're quoting me. I've never advocated bringing him in to coach.
 
ObsiWan said:
I get where you're coming from but slow your roll.

What type of offensive scheme would Romo bring here? Yeah, he's excellent at recognizing/predicting what play is coming next "in the booth" but what is his offensive philosophy? What changes would he need to make to get that philosophy to work? Can he get this locker room to follow him? Can he identify and then develop talent?

I ain't saying DON'T bring him here, its just after five years of "WTF is he doing?" I want to know what to expect.
...from whoever replaces O'Brien.
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Sure. But it's clear he's got a grasp on things.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Sure. But it's clear he's got a grasp on things.
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No actually that's not clear, what's clear is that he can study game film and make an educated prediction on what a team and coach he has played against for years will do in certain situations. It is not clear that he knows how to create plays, coach players, manage position coaches (expect maybe QB coach) and adjust mid game to counter defense adjustments. All that is just the job of the OC never mind the HC. Also, before anyone says it because I know they will, I'm not saying BoB can do those things either, tired of that argument, I'm just saying that doing a good job as an announcer does not equal being able to coach. I mean this is like taking someone that is really good at winning horse races and wanting to make them your stable master.

Also this whole conversation is moot because he's not walking away from that cushy announcer job or that big raise CBS is about to offer him to come deal with the stress that is being a part of the NFL again.
 
maverick512000 said:
I'm just saying that doing a good job as an announcer does not equal being able to coach. I mean this is like taking someone that is really good at winning horse races and wanting to make them your stable master.
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Thing is he is not just. An announcer. He was a 13 year QB. Plenty of players go on to be coaches including HCs.
 
infantrycak said:
Thing is he is not just. An announcer. He was a 13 year QB. Plenty of players go on to be coaches including HCs.
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This is very true and I'm not saying Romo would not be a good or even great coach. I am saying though that he hasn't yet shown that he could be a coach. BoB, for all his faults, at least did have experience as both an OC and college coach when he came here. His coaching pedigree was actually pretty good, it was just his first gig as an NFL HC. For Romo it would be his first gig as any kind of coach. Now I'm sure he has mentored some guys and worked with Dak when he was up and coming but giving some tips and working on form is not the same as flat out being the coach and having to sometimes turn chicken **** into chicken salad.

Mostly I just disagree with those saying that Romo would be a clear upgrade to BoB. Fact is he would be an even greater unknown than BoB has ever been because we've only ever seen him as now two things in the NFL. A QB and an announcer, as a QB his legacy is somewhat arguable. I'll always say Marino was the greatest QB to never win a SB but I would say Romo was the greatest to never play a SB. For QBs though its all about the ring when looking at their legacy and in that regard Romo was a failure. As an announcer yeah he seems to be the best since Madden but calling, even predicting, from the booth is not the same as being on the side lines or even the team booth.

He may very well be an upgrade but he is not a clear upgrade and I'm not yet ready to roll the dice on such an unknown when we have such great players in their prime and even have Watson on a rookie contract. Moot point anyway as CBS is going to throw stupid money at him to stay.
 
Shishkabob said:
Moon didn't play in nearly as QB friendly of a time as Romo got to. Dan Fouts would be above Romo as well. Rivers too if he never makes it before he retires
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Meh its all opinion and I will grant you I was to young to really pay any attention to football beyond just watching the games during Moon's glory days. If I had known then what I knew when I watched Romo maybe I would feel different. In those days only team I really followed was the Dolphins, what can I say my parents took me to Sea world a lot as a kid. I will say though that yes Romo's era maybe considered more QB friendly but teams were making it that way because QBs like Romo, Brady, Rogers, Brees and others were becoming more common place. We were getting "once in a generation" QBs almost every draft.

Edit: Will agree if Rivers never makes it before retiring that he will have been better overall but he could still make it.........hey it could happen.
 
Shishkabob said:
Would Ricky/Ricky/Ricky really be the one pulling for an ex Patriot that worked with O'Brien? Seems if it is true, he is a guy OB identified that he wanted
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Mike Meltser also mentioned on 610 this morning that BOB was interviewed for the Bills HC job before the Texans, and BOB said part of his plan as the Bills HC would be to get Brian Hoyer. Now I have no idea how he knows this, and I couldn't find anything on Google to support this.

But if this is true, good thing we got a GM that is more aligned with BOB! *sarcasm*
 
dream_team said:
Mike Meltser also mentioned on 610 this morning that BOB was interviewed for the Bills HC job before the Texans, and BOB said part of his plan as the Bills HC would be to get Brian Hoyer. Now I have no idea how he knows this, and I couldn't find anything on Google to support this.

But if this is true, good thing we got a GM that is more aligned with BOB! *sarcasm*
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Meltser is full of ****, Marrone was hired in 2013 and fired after the 2014 season. O'brien only interviewed with the Browns and Eagles in 2013 before deciding to go back to Penn St. Only other teams that even reached out to interview him in 2013 were the Cardinals and Chargers
 
I will say I don't know where the idea that the QBs we have had haven't been what BoB wanted, at least on paper, came from. You miiiiight could make an argument he wasn't as high on Osweiler but after the **** show that was Hoyer in the playoffs they had to do something big and Osweiler was the best choice they had. Mallet and Hoyer though had BoB's finger prints all over them and while he did get better games out of them than most neither of them should have been anybody a team was hanging its hopes and dreams on. But you know lets forget those two, I'm willing to forgive that as the argument could be made that both were outside of a coach's control. I mean you can't do much if a, supposedly, grown man is going to throw a temper tantrum like Mallet did or a guy that has been decent in the regular season suddenly collapses in the playoffs. Those can be forgiven as they hadn't been here long.

No, to me the real case against BoB coaching QBs up rests with Tom Savage. Here was a guy that may have been drafted in the third round but also rode the bench for 3 years. After three years of being hip deep in an offensive scheme any QB at the NFL level should be able to come out and at least look decent. He may not be the franchise guy but he also shouldn't be shown up by a rookie on their first game, no matter how talented, as Watson showed Savage up.

So people can talk about all the damage Smith did all they want but the QB carousal should be laid directly at BoB's feet and I give Smith credit for getting us Watson. I still say that whole deal with Cleveland to get rid of Osweiler was part of a larger deal to allow us to move up and get Watson. By that thinking losing those picks was a steal to dump an albatross like Osweiler and snag a QB like Watson.
 
Shishkabob said:
So Rick Smith did try to get O'Brien his QB after all...
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Why would a GM "not" work with his head coach and try to get the players or type of players his coach wants? I guess there are GMs who feel it is the coaches job to make the team work with whoever he acquires(Jerry Jones maybe), but it just seems so counter productive to be trying an force square pegs in round holes. It's just my opinion but I would think the vast majority of GMs work very closely with their coaches to try and acquire the players they want. Haven't the Texans always said it's a collective effort? While I think Smith was a terrible GM, I don't think you can blame him for O'Brien once again spitin the bit when the games mattered the most.

PS I'm not saying you feel this way, your post just made me think.
 
I haven't heard/read any news of BO'b acting as Texans HC in a couple weeks....


Think maybe there's a chance he's been outed?
 
Shishkabob said:
Meltser is full of ****, Marrone was hired in 2013 and fired after the 2014 season. O'brien only interviewed with the Browns and Eagles in 2013 before deciding to go back to Penn St. Only other teams that even reached out to interview him in 2013 were the Cardinals and Chargers
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Yah, I did a google search and found no reports of BOB interviewing with the Bills? Not sure where Melts is getting his info, or maybe he got his teams mixed up?
 
ColeThornton said:
Why would a GM "not" work with his head coach and try to get the players or type of players his coach wants? I guess there are GMs who feel it is the coaches job to make the team work with whoever he acquires(Jerry Jones maybe), but it just seems so counter productive to be trying an force square pegs in round holes. It's just my opinion but I would think the vast majority of GMs work very closely with their coaches to try and acquire the players they want. Haven't the Texans always said it's a collective effort? While I think Smith was a terrible GM, I don't think you can blame him for O'Brien once again spitin the bit when the games mattered the most.

PS I'm not saying you feel this way, your post just made me think.
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Because it's the only way to defend BoB's poor talent recognition and development record.
 
Surreal McCoy said:
Because it's the only way to defend BoB's poor talent recognition and development record.
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Because BOB's own words were I coach the players that are given me.

The fact that one is here and the other isn't should tell you what the power structure was.
 
steelbtexan said:
Because BOB's own words were I coach the players that are given me.

The fact that one is here and the other isn't should tell you what the power structure was.
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"HOUSTON -- Texans coach Bill O'Brien opened his news conference Wednesday saying he and general manager Rick Smith have a partnership and that all decisions about the team are made together."
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“Rick and I talk every single day about the roster, we go over every player. We just met this morning on the roster, we met yesterday on the roster...”
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"When they disagree and can't reach a consensus, they are supposed to go to McNair to resolve the dispute.

On Wednesday night McNair said that has never happened in the year and a half Smith and O'Brien have worked together.

'They work well together,' McNair told Houston's FOX 26 and the Houston Chronicle. 'If they disagree on something they come to me. They've never come to me."
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There's loads more but I can't be arsed to find them all for you.

 
Surreal McCoy said:
There's loads more but I can't be arsed to find them all for you.
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I've posted these quotes before. He also said on the radio that rick isn't gonna get the coaches any players they don't want. (Meltsers show)

My guess is at some point OBrien wanted to get a player, but then Rick didn't get him due to another team jumping in front of us (remember Rick trading up one spot to avoid that again?) or offering more money. Hence steels quote.

O'Brien probably blamed Rick for not getting everyone he wanted but overall, O'Brien has gotten most of his guys. And that's how it works with every gm.

So going forward I don't think gaine will make much of a difference (although he did say he doesn't like trading up and wants bpa) because OBrien will be asking gaine to get guys he likes. Falling in love with a non blocking te because he coached him at the senior bowl last year is a perfect example of this. And so is thinking Rankin could play tackle (quotes from gaine showed he wasn't sure about that)
 
Anyone know when BOB said that he only coaches the players given him? I'm going to be very surprised if it wasn't years into proving that he couldn't identify talent when 'Ricky' had to finally intervene to keep him from running the organization into the ground. My $s on BOB got his feelings hurt for being confronted about not being able to identify talent and slipped up and ran his mouth to the media. Thank God 'Ricky' intervened or we'd still be looking for our qb.
 
Shishkabob said:
I think it was the Osweiler year, we also didn't have Rick for a lot of last season due to him stepping away for his wife even though it wasn't announced that he had been away until after
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Not exactly sure what he's complaining about then, because the 2016 draft was his "speed" draft (Fuller, Ervin, Braxton) plus he got a C who could also play G (Martin) AND they signed Lamar Miller who O'Brien obviously loves to run up the middle. And they signed Jeff Allen who people were saying would be just as good as Brandon Brooks.

Just look at this article:

"Bill O’Brien has sent his message loud and clear. After two straight seasons of watching his quarterbacks wallow in mediocrity while DeAndre Hopkins’ supporting cast withered away due to age or injury, O'Brien finally had enough. This was the offseason when everything had to change. This was the offseason that would give O’Brien the ability to run his offense.

As O’Brien explained yesterday on SiriusXM NFL Radio, every single receiver in his offense will ideally have a different skill-set. The more variance of skill-sets in his arsenal, the more ways O'Brien can attack certain defensive weaknesses."

https://www.battleredblog.com/2016/...ns-will-fuller-braxton-miller-deandre-hopkins


And this:

talked w Bill O'Brien #HOU
Using new concept "Edge Position"
Miller & Ervin are candidates, both can handle 3+ roleshttps://t.co/Shu2OoZOZa

— Pat Kirwan (@PatKirwanCBS) May 3, 2016

How did that work out?

So maybe it was just a reference to Osweiler, who halfway through the season it was said without evidence that he was "forced" on O'Brien (nevermind that he was telling everyone Hoyer and Mallet were good QBs the year before). But O'Brien benched him for Savage only to bring him back for the playoffs.

Bottom line is they've gone all out to get him players he wants and the offense still sucks. Then they finally get a good QB in Watson and the offense still sucks.
 
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JB said:
And what so many lobbied for... a typical NFL structure where the GM got the players and the coach coached them up.
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Exactly. Besides having an excuse for O’Brien, I don’t get why posters cannot seem to understand that’s a typical NFL structure. Especially with an unproven, inexperienced first time HC.

What’s funny is besides the Patriots, all the teams in the championship games had that same structure. I don’t hear McVay or Peyton whining about coaching players they got. In fact, one of the changes Andy Reid made with the Chiefs was giving up personnel decisions and he claims it made him a better coach than when he had it with the Eagles.

So, O’Brien getting control of personnel is not the norm. It’s just a dumb excuse for a piss poor job with the available talent.
 
Texansballer74 said:
These quotes have been posted several times and that dude still claims otherwise. You have to understand Steel hates RS to the freaking core.
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I was never a fan of Rick. But to claim in retrospect that he's the sole reason for BoB's myriad failings is quite laughable. The poster in question is the one I responded to, but he's not the only 'Flat Earther' on this, and other forums. In fact, I would say, anecdotally, the vast majority of Texans fans are still in favour of keeping BoB despite the mountain of contradicting evidence before them.

Either BoB is accountable as the Head Coach, or he's just a guy we employ to coach up some players we throw together. If it's the latter, then change his title to something more appropriate like OC or QB Coach.
 
TheKDog said:
So maybe it was just a reference to Osweiler, who halfway through the season it was said without evidence that he was "forced" on O'Brien (nevermind that he was telling everyone Hoyer and Mallet were good QBs the year before). But O'Brien benched him for Savage only to bring him back for the playoffs.

Bottom line is they've gone all out to get him players he wants and the offense still sucks. Then they finally get a good QB in Watson and the offense still sucks.
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Well Osweiler came back because Savage hurt his head falling forward for a yard in the last game if you remember. Then came the whole story about the half time fiasco, Os crying that OB only wanted him out there because he needs him now and being claimed to being held hostage or some crap. And his offense with all his players HEALTHY has been very good, in the 11 games that Watson, Nuk, and Fuller have all played together the offense averages 30.8 ppg. Issue is when a piece to his offense like Fuller goes out, so does his offense he needs to be able to adjust. Injuries will happen every year to every team you have to coach around them.

I also think his quote was taken a little out of context, the "I only coach the players that are given to me" He said numerous times before and after that quote that him and Rick worked together. I don't think he was saying it as a shot at Rick, I think someone asked him a question about player X or something with the personnel after a loss and that's what he said IIRC
 
Shishkabob said:
Well Osweiler came back because Savage hurt his head falling forward for a yard in the last game if you remember. Then came the whole story about the half time fiasco, Os crying that OB only wanted him out there because he needs him now and being claimed to being held hostage or some crap. And his offense with all his players HEALTHY has been very good, in the 11 games that Watson, Nuk, and Fuller have all played together the offense averages 30.8 ppg. Issue is when a piece to his offense like Fuller goes out, so does his offense he needs to be able to adjust. Injuries will happen every year to every team you have to coach around them.

I also think his quote was taken a little out of context, the "I only coach the players that are given to me" He said numerous times before and after that quote that him and Rick worked together. I don't think he was saying it as a shot at Rick, I think someone asked him a question about player X or something with the personnel after a loss and that's what he said IIRC
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But Savage was ready to come back vs. the patriots.

I'm not saying it was necessarily the right decision to go Savage, but if osweiler was forced on him why not go with his own draft pick?

Also, in 5 of 7 games this year with Fuller, the offense only scored 22 points or less. So that average was mainly from last year's offense which is a distant memory
 
ObsiWan said:
I get where you're coming from but slow your roll.

What type of offensive scheme would Romo bring here? Yeah, he's excellent at recognizing/predicting what play is coming next "in the booth" but what is his offensive philosophy? What changes would he need to make to get that philosophy to work? Can he get this locker room to follow him? Can he identify and then develop talent?

I ain't saying DON'T bring him here, its just after five years of "WTF is he doing?" I want to know what to expect.
...from whoever replaces O'Brien.
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I'm pretty sure we watched the basis of that philosophy for his entire career.
steelbtexan said:
Every single talent that OB has worked with has regressed to some degree, even Watson.
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Not true, Hopkins/WFV/Miller/Mancz have all improved under BOB.

I would say the draft choices improved, particularly Reid/Coutee even though he was hurt most of the yr, 11 catches in a playoff games by a rookie isn't anything to sneeze at.[/QUOTE]
Hopkins has been incredible in spite of OB. WFV/Coutee don't have the most important ability: availability. I don't think Mancz played as well this season as he did in 2017. That could be because of lesser talents around him. I don't look at the defensive side of the ball and judge OB. I don't look at the offensive side of the ball and Judge RAC.
 
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