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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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dream_team said:
Arghhhhhh! Having or reading others have a debate with SteelB makes me want to pull my hair out.
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Arguing with SteelB is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. Eventually you realize that the pig likes it. In any serious debate it's never about trying to change the mind of the one you are debating, for all you know they are debating that point just to be different. It's about presenting your points and them presenting theirs so that others looking in can see both views and decide. Also by hearing the other side it allows you to sharpen and further develop your own beliefs.

That's why most people can't debate, they think that if they just keep going, or yell loud enough, then they can win. You don't really win debates, you just present your points, acknowledge when they have a point and at the end you both agree to disagree. If you think you are going to win then your debate will just become an arguement........which can also be fun at times.

I like SteelB because he never takes it personally, my God the "debates" we had of Smith vs BoB. One of the bigs reasons I miss Smith being there. But I suppose having a possibly winning team is more important and something had to give either Smith or BoB. Still curious if his wife's cancer had not happened and the McNair's had to flat out make a choice who would come out on top. Especially with Cal in charge.
 
maverick512000 said:
Arguing with SteelB is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. Eventually you realize that the pig likes it. In any serious debate it's never about trying to change the mind of the one you are debating, for all you know they are debating that point just to be different. It's about presenting your points and them presenting theirs so that others looking in can see both views and decide. Also by hearing the other side it allows you to sharpen and further develop your own beliefs.

That's why most people can't debate, they think that if they just keep going, or yell loud enough, then they can win. You don't really win debates, you just present your points, acknowledge when they have a point and at the end you both agree to disagree. If you think you are going to win then your debate will just become an arguement........which can also be fun at times.

I like SteelB because he never takes it personally, my God the "debates" we had of Smith vs BoB. One of the bigs reasons I miss Smith being there. But I suppose having a possibly winning team is more important and something had to give either Smith or BoB. Still curious if his wife's cancer had not happened and the McNair's had to flat out make a choice who would come out on top. Especially with Cal in charge.
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I agree with what you said. An honest, healthy debate is good. But it gets frustrating when you debate someone that constantly contradicts themselves, changes the original argument, or flat out ignores you when you make a point they can’t refute.

In other words, frustrating to debate someone that cares more about winning the debate rather than learn something or figure out the truth.
 
I watched a lot of Cowboys games and when he was in the game I focused solely on XSF. He no longer looks lazy but he still plays lazy. Slightly improved though since he was here.

I’m interested to see what he looks like come training camp. I predict he’s going to balloon up again during the off-season.
 
maverick512000 said:
Arguing with SteelB is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. Eventually you realize that the pig likes it. In any serious debate it's never about trying to change the mind of the one you are debating, for all you know they are debating that point just to be different. It's about presenting your points and them presenting theirs so that others looking in can see both views and decide. Also by hearing the other side it allows you to sharpen and further develop your own beliefs.

That's why most people can't debate, they think that if they just keep going, or yell loud enough, then they can win. You don't really win debates, you just present your points, acknowledge when they have a point and at the end you both agree to disagree. If you think you are going to win then your debate will just become an arguement........which can also be fun at times.

I like SteelB because he never takes it personally, my God the "debates" we had of Smith vs BoB. One of the bigs reasons I miss Smith being there. But I suppose having a possibly winning team is more important and something had to give either Smith or BoB. Still curious if his wife's cancer had not happened and the McNair's had to flat out make a choice who would come out on top. Especially with Cal in charge.
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way too serious of a post for the subject matter
 
As so many players and coaches will tell you, the playoffs are different than the regular season. The game is taken to a higher level. So I think the way a team does in the playoffs is more indicative of the quality of a team than a 9 game regular season winning streak padded by victories against the 6-10 Bills, 5-11 Jags, 6-10 Broncos, and 4-12 Jets. IE if you can't do it in the playoffs, what difference does it make? Regular season wonders become no more than a joke when they choke the first game of the playoffs. We now know, due to the playoffs, the Patriots are once again the class of the AFC with the Chiefs somewhere behind them. We also know the Colts are at a lower level than the Chiefs and the Texans a lower level than the Colts. The Texans are a middle of the pack team just like they were 4 years ago after O'Brien's first season. After 5 seasons with lots of personnel changes one thing remains the same, O'Brien's team is an average NFL team just like it was his first season. He had a season where the team was really bad, but never a season where they were really good. I agree with those who say it is not all his fault. This is a mediocre organization from top to bottom. What I do disagree with is the 2 wrongs make a right philosophy. Just because O'Brien is only part of the problem is no excuse to not try and fix that part of the problem. I know he'll be back next year and I know as a Texan fan I'll be disappointed again at the end of the season. This because we have a head coach that has had 5 years to improve our team and has proven he can't do it. I don't think the talent is any worse than it was 5 years ago, in fact with the tremendous upgrade at QB overall I think the talent is better, but not the team. I would ask those who continually make excuses for O'Brien, who think the regular season means so much, is there any record next year where you could say that's it, no excuses? Would 0-16 do it? How about 2-14 or 4-12 again? Somehow I think they would all want to reserve the right to make excuses because that's what they do. If average is good enough you get what you deserve.
 
ColeThornton said:
As so many players and coaches will tell you, the playoffs are different than the regular season. The game is taken to a higher level. So I think the way a team does in the playoffs is more indicative of the quality of a team than a 9 game regular season winning streak padded by victories against the 6-10 Bills, 5-11 Jags, 6-10 Broncos, and 4-12 Jets. IE if you can't do it in the playoffs, what difference does it make? Regular season wonders become no more than a joke when they choke the first game of the playoffs. We now know, due to the playoffs, the Patriots are once again the class of the AFC with the Chiefs somewhere behind them. We also know the Colts are at a lower level than the Chiefs and the Texans a lower level than the Colts. The Texans are a middle of the pack team just like they were 4 years ago after O'Brien's first season. After 5 seasons with lots of personnel changes one thing remains the same, O'Brien's team is an average NFL team just like it was his first season. He had a season where the team was really bad, but never a season where they were really good. I agree with those who say it is not all his fault. This is a mediocre organization from top to bottom. What I do disagree with is the 2 wrongs make a right philosophy. Just because O'Brien is only part of the problem is no excuse to not try and fix that part of the problem. I know he'll be back next year and I know as a Texan fan I'll be disappointed again at the end of the season. This because we have a head coach that has had 5 years to improve our team and has proven he can't do it. I don't think the talent is any worse than it was 5 years ago, in fact with the tremendous upgrade at QB overall I think the talent is better, but not the team. I would ask those who continually make excuses for O'Brien, who think the regular season means so much, is there any record next year where you could say that's it, no excuses? Would 0-16 do it? How about 2-14 or 4-12 again? Somehow I think they would all want to reserve the right to make excuses because that's what they do. If average is good enough you get what you deserve.
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If we go have a losing season then I will agree.........we need a new mascot. Toro will have shown he can't get the job done and rally the fans and players. How can any coach be expected to win when the mascot can't do their damn job.

I say we bring Orbit in, he has shown he knows how to be the mascot for a championship caliber team.
 
Mangler said:
I’d force him on O’Brien as OC, then as O’Brien goes on to sh1t the bed and the season ends 9-7 or worse, I’d proceed to naming Romo HC. I was surprised how well he called Bellichick’s before Bellichick even made the play call.
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Talk about deja vu .... that was exactly my next thought ! Then my next .... the reason I didn't bring it up .... 1) O'Brien would nix it .... 2) Romo has got a great gig - one that gives him time to work on his golf game .... wait, I may have said this before - that thought felt eerily familiar .... I'm not going to say it again .... CS&N sang it way better !
 
Cal and Gaines can force Romo on OB as his new OC before the Cowboys make the smart move in offering the position to Romo. Romo's offensive smarts really come through and I doubt he'll be calling the booth home in the near future.....GM's and HC's are probably taking note. Texans should be one of this teams.
 
Mangler said:
I’d force him on O’Brien as OC, then as O’Brien goes on to sh1t the bed and the season ends 9-7 or worse, I’d proceed to naming Romo HC. I was surprised how well he called Bellichick’s before Bellichick even made the play call.
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That's all well and good but just one slight problem. Why would he give up his current sweet gig to come here to be an OC or even HC? Again it comes back to the same problem all post/threads have when talking about who we should bring in. The other person has to agree to it as well and no just throwing money at it is not the solution.

OptimisticTexan said:
Cal and Gaines can force Romo on OB as his new OC before the Cowboys make the smart move in offering the position to Romo. Romo's offensive smarts really come through and I doubt he'll be calling the booth home in the near future.....GM's and HC's are probably taking note. Texans should be one of this teams.
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Why wouldn't he stay in the booth? Fox was going to pay Cutler 450k to do the job and, while the exact number is not public info, its rumored CBS blew that deal out of the water with their offer to Romo. It was at least enough to get him to retire. I mean think about it, why deal with the stress and headache of being a HC or even OC when you can sit up in a comfortable chair in an climate controlled room and draw with a little yellow pen. No stress of coaching players, no stress of fans calling for your head, your job doesn't depend on your team winning and in the off season you're basically on vacation and, in some cases literally, phoning it in.

I'm not saying your wrong, he may very well miss the thrill of it, but lets not make it sound like this was all he could do after football. This was one of those to good to pass up offers.
 
Mangler said:
I’d force him on O’Brien as OC, then as O’Brien goes on to sh1t the bed and the season ends 9-7 or worse, I’d proceed to naming Romo HC. I was surprised how well he called Bellichick’s before Bellichick even made the play call.
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Has Romo ever coached at any level? Words are easy (remember all the praise OB got early for his chalk talks?) actually doing the job totally different
 
maverick512000 said:
That's all well and good but just one slight problem. Why would he give up his current sweet gig to come here to be an OC or even HC? Again it comes back to the same problem all post/threads have when talking about who we should bring in. The other person has to agree to it as well and no just throwing money at it is not the solution.



Why wouldn't he stay in the booth? Fox was going to pay Cutler 450k to do the job and, while the exact number is not public info, its rumored CBS blew that deal out of the water with their offer to Romo. It was at least enough to get him to retire. I mean think about it, why deal with the stress and headache of being a HC or even OC when you can sit up in a comfortable chair in an climate controlled room and draw with a little yellow pen. No stress of coaching players, no stress of fans calling for your head, your job doesn't depend on your team winning and in the off season you're basically on vacation and, in some cases literally, phoning it in.

I'm not saying your wrong, he may very well miss the thrill of it, but lets not make it sound like this was all he could do after football. This was one of those to good to pass up offers.
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That's not to say he could actually DO a good job as a coach. Spurrier seemed like a great idea at the time... j/s
 
JB said:
That's not to say he could actually DO a good job as a coach. Spurrier seemed like a great idea at the time... j/s
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He surely did. Head Coach position is a massive collection of never-ending details, challenges, and headaches. I wouldn't want it, even if I were in my 30's or 40's again. Dierker certainly did well at it. He always spoke in an informative manner .... completely without condescension, just letting the fan in on the real deal .... just sharing insights to the that intricacies we might never imagine. To me, he and Romo have that gift in common .... except Dierker was laid back, and Romo is hyper. At any rate, I'd prefer OC over head coach, at least at first .... O'Brien is not secure enough to allow it .... after a lucky 11 & 5, he needs to be the man !
 
justmy2cents said:
He surely did. Head Coach position is a massive collection of never-ending details, challenges, and headaches. I wouldn't want it, even if I were in my 30's or 40's again. Dierker certainly did well at it. He always spoke in an informative manner .... completely without condescension, just letting the fan in on the real deal .... just sharing insights to the that intricacies we might never imagine. To me, he and Romo have that gift in common .... except Dierker was laid back, and Romo is hyper. At any rate, I'd prefer OC over head coach, at least at first .... O'Brien is not secure enough to allow it .... after a lucky 11 & 5, he needs to be the man !
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Agree with the first part but don't agree with the second. I'm don't believe its an ego thing with why BoB keeps the OC spot for himself. First this is BoB's first gig as an NFL HC and he almost got fired from it because the OC was screwing the pooch so badly. That was why he took over the job himself and a lot of people at the time were really happy he did and said it was a good thing. Having been in a position where I took the fall for someone else's F up I can tell you that sucks more than when you get fired for your own F up. At least then you can learn from it but when you are the fall guy all you learn is don't trust your fate to anyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't like BoB as an OC and wish he would hire one but I do understand why he doesn't, I don't agree with it but I understand it.
 
maverick512000 said:
Agree with the first part but don't agree with the second. I'm don't believe its an ego thing with why BoB keeps the OC spot for himself. First this is BoB's first gig as an NFL HC and he almost got fired from it because the OC was screwing the pooch so badly. That was why he took over the job himself and a lot of people at the time were really happy he did and said it was a good thing. Having been in a position where I took the fall for someone else's F up I can tell you that sucks more than when you get fired for your own F up. At least then you can learn from it but when you are the fall guy all you learn is don't trust your fate to anyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't like BoB as an OC and wish he would hire one but I do understand why he doesn't, I don't agree with it but I understand it.
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Well, if O'Brien does choose an OC, and allows him to update our offense to change to a more wide open, point scoring juggernaut, I will be the guy out front, and cheering the loudest. The objective is to score more points than your opponent .... a feeling of playing to win rather than playing not to lose .... that is not sarcasm .... it's the way I feel every time we tee it up !
 
maverick512000 said:
That's all well and good but just one slight problem. Why would he give up his current sweet gig to come here to be an OC or even HC? Again it comes back to the same problem all post/threads have when talking about who we should bring in. The other person has to agree to it as well and no just throwing money at it is not the solution.



Why wouldn't he stay in the booth? Fox was going to pay Cutler 450k to do the job and, while the exact number is not public info, its rumored CBS blew that deal out of the water with their offer to Romo. It was at least enough to get him to retire. I mean think about it, why deal with the stress and headache of being a HC or even OC when you can sit up in a comfortable chair in an climate controlled room and draw with a little yellow pen. No stress of coaching players, no stress of fans calling for your head, your job doesn't depend on your team winning and in the off season you're basically on vacation and, in some cases literally, phoning it in.

I'm not saying your wrong, he may very well miss the thrill of it, but lets not make it sound like this was all he could do after football. This was one of those to good to pass up offers.
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Plus he's finally going to a Super Bowl.
 
maverick512000 said:
Agree with the first part but don't agree with the second. I'm don't believe its an ego thing with why BoB keeps the OC spot for himself. First this is BoB's first gig as an NFL HC and he almost got fired from it because the OC was screwing the pooch so badly. That was why he took over the job himself and a lot of people at the time were really happy he did and said it was a good thing. Having been in a position where I took the fall for someone else's F up I can tell you that sucks more than when you get fired for your own F up. At least then you can learn from it but when you are the fall guy all you learn is don't trust your fate to anyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I still don't like BoB as an OC and wish he would hire one but I do understand why he doesn't, I don't agree with it but I understand it.
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If you own a business, you always have to accept fault for others screw ups.
 
maverick512000 said:
Not sure what that has to do with my post seeing as BoB doesn't own the Texans and I didn't own the company I was talking about. If you own a business you also can't be fired for others screw ups.
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Your clients fire you if screw up.

BOB is ultimately in charge of the on field product, he's responsible for the results and if things dont go as expected BOB will be fired.
 
"Bill O'Brien Needs to Be Fired for Not having Texans prepared in Wild Card Game."
https://www.12up.com/posts/6264703-...-not-having-texans-prepared-in-wild-card-game

"How much of the Houston Texans’ 21-7 loss to the Indianapolis Colts Saturday in the AFC wild-card at NRG Stadium was coach Bill O’Brien’s fault?
Answer: all of it."
https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/05/how-much-texans-21-7-playoff-exit-bill-obrien-fault/

"Houston seems to have a team talented enough to compete for a championship, but another first round playoff exit raises the question of whether O’Brien is the coach that will lead them over the hump. As the Texans head into the offseason, it’s possible that we’ve seen O’Brien’s peak."
https://fansided.com/2019/01/05/texans-shutout-bill-obrien-playoffs/

"During his tenure, Houston has played 38 games against teams finishing with a winning record. The Texans have gone 11-27 in those affairs. Come the postseason, O’Brien has a 1-3 mark with the lone win coming against Connor Cook and the Raiders."
https://fansided.com/2019/01/05/bill-obrien-texans-fired-rumors-2019/

"If the Texans had failed to score on Saturday, they would’ve become the fifth team to join that infamous club, and O’Brien would have been in charge of two of those five teams. Even though O’Brien was able to narrowly avoid that happening, it speaks to how poor of a coach O’Brien is when it comes to the playoffs."
https://fansided.com/2019/01/05/texans-shutout-bill-obrien-playoffs/

"If Houston is going to compete with the Colts both in the short and long-term, O’Brien has to become a strength instead of a pronounced weakness. The Texans gave him an extension last offseason, showcasing their belief in him. So far, that faith has not been rewarded."
https://fansided.com/2019/01/05/bill-obrien-texans-fired-rumors-2019/

"A clown show for Texans. Bill O’Brien should be better than this by now."
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...le/Smith-A-clown-show-for-Texans-13511497.php

"The man who calls the plays — and has twice self-appointed himself the Texans’ offensive coordinator — admitted they were horrible."
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...Bill-O-Brien-is-down-but-will-he-13251893.php








 
maverick512000 said:
First this is BoB's first gig as an NFL HC and he almost got fired from it because the OC was screwing the pooch so badly. That was why he took over the job himself and a lot of people at the time were really happy he did and said it was a good thing. Having been in a position where I took the fall for someone else's F up I can tell you that sucks more than when you get fired for your own F up.
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I'm pretty sure Godsey is saying, "Surely they see he's running the same sht he made me run..... duh guys, wake up."

But now, our problem is poor talent.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm pretty sure Godsey is saying, "Surely they see he's running the same sht he made me run..... duh guys, wake up."

But now, our problem is poor talent.
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Oh I'm not saying that BoB is doing a better job, he's not, I'm just saying I can understand wanting to be fired for your own F up rather than someone else's.
 
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maverick512000 said:
Oh I'm not saying that BoB is doing a better job, he's not, I'm just saying I can understand wanting to be fired for your own F up rather than someone else's.
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I'm saying Godsey was the scapegoat. The offense was the same before he was the OC, when he was the OC, after he was the OC.... i.e. he was never the OC & got fired for someone else's F up.
 
cuppacoffee said:
I hope you are right.

Don't get me wrong, I am not wishing for OBrien to fail. I was one of his supporters when he arrived here.
Still am......to a limited extent.

Time will tell, just a question of how much time. Any suggestions?

:coffee:
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2 drafts/fa's is what it's going to take to clean up the mess. It really doesn't matter if you blame it on Ricky or BOB it's going to take atleast 2 more offseasons to clean up the mess and that's only if Cal runs the team different than Bob did.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
I'd ******* do anything to have Romo be our coach.
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I get where you're coming from but slow your roll.

What type of offensive scheme would Romo bring here? Yeah, he's excellent at recognizing/predicting what play is coming next "in the booth" but what is his offensive philosophy? What changes would he need to make to get that philosophy to work? Can he get this locker room to follow him? Can he identify and then develop talent?

I ain't saying DON'T bring him here, its just after five years of "WTF is he doing?" I want to know what to expect.
...from whoever replaces O'Brien.
 
ObsiWan said:
I get where you're coming from but slow your roll.

What type of offensive scheme would Romo bring here? Yeah, he's excellent at recognizing/predicting what play is coming next "in the booth" but what is his offensive philosophy? What changes would he need to make to get that philosophy to work? Can he get this locker room to follow him? Can he identify and then develop talent?

I ain't saying DON'T bring him here, its just after five years of "WTF is he doing?" I want to know what to expect.
...from whoever replaces O'Brien.
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Right. Say what you want about Romo, he was a damn good QB, and part of that was that he can read a defense, as he's again proven time and time again in the booth. Big difference though in being able to read defenses and designing an offense.

Maybe he can, I don't know. That part has yet to be proven.
 
Speedy said:
Right. Say what you want about Romo, he was a damn good QB, and part of that was that he can read a defense, as he's again proven time and time again in the booth. Big difference though in being able to read defenses and designing an offense.

Maybe he can, I don't know. That part has yet to be proven.
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well he could do... so he probably can't teach
 
OB is NOT GETTING FIRED.

Would have happened already.

Might as well stop the silly debating of it if it has NO CHANCE of happening this off season. Wasting your time beating a drum that can't make noise.
 
Speedy said:
Right. Say what you want about Romo, he was a damn good QB, and part of that was that he can read a defense, as he's again proven time and time again in the booth. Big difference though in being able to read defenses and designing an offense.

Maybe he can, I don't know. That part has yet to be proven.
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Announcing a game as an analyst has nothing to do with coaching football.

Nothing at all.

Might as well suggest that we should put Arian Foster out there to coach because he played and he has a podcast where he shares some things that a few people agree with from time to time.
 
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