cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Need to resign TJ Yates if we are considering Romo.
Yates has a many playoff wins as Romo. Romo is 1-3 as a starter in the playoffs, and 0-3 in other games when a playoff berth was on the line.
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All encompassing Rick Smith thread
- Thread starter djohn2oo8
- Start date
Need to resign TJ Yates if we are considering Romo.
Yates has a many playoff wins as Romo. Romo is 1-3 as a starter in the playoffs, and 0-3 in other games when a playoff berth was on the line.
?
banned1976
sleeper mode
What about Shane Boyd in '07
Boyd was signed as an UDFA by the Titans in 2005. He was signed by the Texans in 2007.
I stand corrected.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Is Will Fuller really a hit? I mean, he gets hit with the ball a lot, but doesn't catch it that well...
And I would like to see this analysis on his free agency record, that one is likely much worse than his drafting.
Whatv good is drafting when you just let guys go after their 1st contract?
Brooks/Barwin/Jones/Ryans etc... Plus you have te skills of an alzneimers patient when it comes to evaluating QB's. Wash/Rinse/Repeat..... More mediocrity.
But hey.... Ricky has managed to make the McNair's/himself a lot of $$$$ in a decade. So you can expect more of the same.
I've seen Smith being ranked anywhere from 11 to 25 by various publications (overall, both draft and Fa signing.)
That does not include 2016.
Also, the one that ranked him at 11 thinks that Osweiler was a decent-good move.
The average ranking is around 20.
Now if one adds the results from 2016, it will surely drag him down some more.
Osweiler disappointing.
Martin not playing.
Lamar Miller, decent-good.
Jeff Allen and T Bergstrom, disaster.
Manzc, fair for an UDFA, plugging the hole.
A J Bouye received a one-yr tender, which is good.
But if it was possible to extend his contract for longer (which didn't happen), then it's bad.
So overall, I don't see Smith any higher than 23, and could be as low as 27.
austins23
Hall of Fame
Wow, just wow.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Well, we could be like the Browns and continually try to find the next QB without investing quite enough resources in it. That's bad for business, whereas Rick's method seems to be investing in other parts of the team, and just hoping a mediocre QB will get you by. It keeps people in the seats, so I guess that's successful on some level. We really should have been investing in a QB occasionally every few years. I know for a long time under Rick we had Schaub as the designated starter, and plenty of fans around here twisted stats to make him appear to be a "top 10 QB." It was arguable, but I thought it was pretty obvious he was only an above average game manager. During that time, the team never invested in finding a QB of the future. They always spent a low pick or cheap FA money on one to back him up, and never developed anyone for the future.
I think the closest they came was Jimmy Garoppolo in 2014 (rumor), when we had Fitz as our QB. That would have been a good time to get one and begin the process. If they had spent the pick used to trade up for Louis Nix on trading for Jimmy, we would probably have him today, and have avoided the Brock Osweiller debacle. Or they could have taken Derek Carr with their 2nd. Or could have traded up to get Bridgewater, but priorities. Kind of funny to think of all the good QBs in that draft, and how our team only made a move to get a DT that was falling off the board due to injury.
As conservative as Kubiak was and O'Brien is, when it comes to starting rookies, what good would it have done to draft a rookie QB when neither coach would play him? Yates only got starts because everyone in front of him was injured. Same with Savage. He never got a sniff at a start, even with all the bozos in front of him, until they went down to injuries. I don't think Smith has ever been given the leverage to demand that Kubiak or O'Brien start guy X because Smith said so.
I remember being pissed that Rick McNair didn't draft Jimmy G. I wanted him at 2-1. If you mean funny in a trainwreck kinda way then yes, Rick McNair's handling of the QB position has been hilarious. You couldn't try and screw it up any worse.
Excuses, Rick is over the draft. He could've drafted Jimmy G and let him sit for a couple of yrs. Just like the Packers did with Rodgers. Rumor has it that BOB wanted Jimmy G at 2-1 and Rick outsmarted himself by telling BOB that Jimmy G would be there at 3-1. The Pats traded in front and took Jimmy G. It seems as though Little Ricky McNair learned something from that though, as he has traded up to get Fuller/Martin/McKinney etc... since that fateful night.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Would you really want Smith to have that leverage? Not judging, just asking.
I wonder if any GM has that authority?
Personally I still believe the majority of our problems lie with our scouting dept.
Smith and O'Brien rely on their (scouts) recommendations / scores...no?
That's about right bottom tier, not the worst. Unless you factor in the value of a franchise QB and how Rick McNair has neglected the position. In that case the high water mark for Ricky would be #27.
Would you really want Smith to have that leverage? Not judging, just asking.
I wonder if any GM has that authority?
Personally I still believe the majority of our problems lie with our scouting dept.
Smith and O'Brien rely on their (scouts) recommendations / scores...no?
True, they need to be watching film themselves. But after the Os debacle I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
No I mean funny "ha ha" kind of way. At some point you have to step back and realize football is just entertainment for us peasants. Sometimes teams just luck into a great players like Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins or Derek Carr. We haven't been so fortunate, but the Texans really haven't spent a lot of capital on the QB position prior to signing Brock.
That Rick McNair is quite the QB whisperer.
Short answer: No. He shouldn't. No GM should.Would you really want Smith to have that leverage? Not judging, just asking.
I wonder if any GM has that authority?
Personally I still believe the majority of our problems lie with our scouting dept.
Smith and O'Brien rely on their (scouts) recommendations / scores...no?
Unlike some, I don't think the GM making all the personnel decisions ever works (see the Niners and Colts). In fact, I doubt seriously that it even exists.
Edit:
I personally the successful teams have a HC who articulates what he wants to the GM and a GM who passes on those personnel requirements to the scouts. Then they all huddle up (or have a board mtg
), pre-draft and pre-free agency and figure out what moves will make the team better.
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Not spending the capital is the point. I mean, the Packers spent capital on Rodgers when they had Favre. The Cowboys spent capital on Staubach when the had Morton. Dak when they had Romo. 49ers on Young when they had Montana. Kaep when they had Smith. Chargers when they had Brees/Rivers.
I meaqn even your Browns took a shot with JM. Ricky McNair is allergic to drafting a QB. I would like for Ricky to trade for Jimmy G and draft a QB in rd 1-3 next yr when the QB draft is deeper. That is unless a guy like Mahomes falls to rd 2-3.
Only rumor I remember is that we were going to draft Tom Savage at 2-1. As if that's the guy O'b wanted. That we were able to get him with the last pick in the 4th round, is a plus for Smith.
True that any team can use some luck, but they also have to try to make their own luck as well.
While they had Schaub, the Texans drafted Yates.
Yates was OK as a prospect since he had played in pretty much an identical system in college, but has nothing special; he's more in the mold of a backup QB, so that's not all bad.
But I had thought they could get Wilson in 2012; he also had experience in the WCO at NC St. and in a pro system at Wisconsin.
I liked that they took Keenum as an UDFA, as I saw more potential than Yates. At least, they could have taken Cousins, who was in a pro system at Michigan St.; that would make the transition to the WCO rather easy.
2013 was a drought, so if the GM does his homework beforehand, the team would have been better prepared.
And of course, the idea to extend Schaub was not a good move.
In 2014, they had Garropolo, Carr, and Bridgewater to choose from.
None is a guarantee, but good prospects all the same.
Failing to get a QB in 2012, I had suggested that they just keep Yates and Keenum, and draft one of those guys, or draft two of them.
I wouldn't have minded if they trade away the number one pick.
(I liked Clowney a lot, but I reasoned that if his injury/bone spurs are going to hold him back, I'd rather not wait.)
I would have loved to see if they could trade the pick away for a chance at Mariotta or Winston - who at that time, was not involved in any scandal.)
There's no guarantee either if they can get either one, but I think the position is too important not to try.)
Last year, I had hoped that they would aim for Lynch; he needs experience under center, but I like his potential at his draft slot.
(I didn't watch much of Prescott as I was busy, and they had signed Osweiler - which pissed me off.)
So yeah, you need some luck, but you also need to scout well and plan well.
My 2 cents.
I've heard differently.
How is Savage a plus?
He hasn't played at all on a QB needy team.
I didn't say Savage was a plus.
Re read your post you said getting Savage in the 4th was a plus.
Since Savage has contrbuted very litle over the yrs I would call that a wasted pick. I hope Savage tears it up this yr and proves me wrong. He's got the talent to do it.
Getting the QB the HC wanted in the 4th was a plus.
He did say there were about six guys in the same group. Maybe he'd have been fine with either.
True, but the directives come from the GM and the HC (with inputs their OC/DC and so on.)Would you really want Smith to have that leverage? Not judging, just asking.
I wonder if any GM has that authority?
Personally I still believe the majority of our problems lie with our scouting dept.
Smith and O'Brien rely on their (scouts) recommendations / scores...no?
Shouldn't it work as a chain command and then it all falls on the two top guys to make the final decisions?
It doesn't matter.
Both Rick and Bill are accountable.
And in the end, it's McNair that couldn't find guys with big long term vision.
What expected to find...middle of the pack...more non-good overall than really bad.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Pretty much what I expected. He's never been a terrible drafter in regards to simply finding talent. I don't doubt he'd be a quality head of scouting guy.
It's everything else that he struggles with. Knowing who to re-sign, how much to pay them, the timing of who to draft/re-sign, how to build a balanced roster, finding a QB, etc. I can't reiterate this enough even though I'm beating a dead horse at this point.
yes, but that's where the old term garbage in/garbage out comes into play
zshawn10
All Pro
Mentioned that they tried to trade up in the first past two years:
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826446407502557191
"they have had deals in place but they fall a part after the player is picked. False they tried to trade up for Patrick Peterson"
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826447964587618319
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826446407502557191
"they have had deals in place but they fall a part after the player is picked. False they tried to trade up for Patrick Peterson"
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/826447964587618319
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We know for a fact they tried to trade up for Patrick Peterson. The Texans talked about the decision to go through with the trade & take Aldon Smith since Peterson was already gone & decided to stay put to take Jj Watt.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well Pat just took a huge hickey on that one since the attempt to go get Peterson and decision not to take Smith has been the most open the Texans have ever been on their draft process.
Yeah... I think even McClain got that one right.
Not going to happen
Ricky McNair is family.
Best thing that could happen to the Texans org is back to back 2-14's. Then and only then we might see change.
Adopt him, then get a real GM. One that knows something and is not afraid to say "No Bob that is stupid"
NVM
RagingBull
Hall of Shame
Rick Smith-McNair in his new office in the basement.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Longest Tenured NFL GMs in NFL with their W/L records:
1. Jerry Jones - Dallas Cowboys (Owner, SB, QB) record doesn't matter, owner won't fire himself
2. Mike Brown - Cincinnati Bengals (Owner, QB) record doesn't matter owner won't fire himself
3. Bill Belichick - New England Patriots (SB, QB) 201-71
4. Mickey Loomis - New Orleans Saints (SB, QB) 129-111
5. Ozzie Newsome - Baltimore Ravens (SB, QB) 181-154
6. Ted Thompson - Green Bay Packers (SB, QB) 118-73-1
7. Rick Smith - Houston Texans () 88-88
SB = Super Bowl winner
QB = Had a franchise QB
SOMEONE
1. Jerry Jones - Dallas Cowboys (Owner, SB, QB) record doesn't matter, owner won't fire himself
2. Mike Brown - Cincinnati Bengals (Owner, QB) record doesn't matter owner won't fire himself
3. Bill Belichick - New England Patriots (SB, QB) 201-71
4. Mickey Loomis - New Orleans Saints (SB, QB) 129-111
5. Ozzie Newsome - Baltimore Ravens (SB, QB) 181-154
6. Ted Thompson - Green Bay Packers (SB, QB) 118-73-1
7. Rick Smith - Houston Texans () 88-88
SB = Super Bowl winner
QB = Had a franchise QB
SOMEONE
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
No no no CND, that's not how you rate a GM. You have to look at his draft picks, and see how many games they started. It's a foolproof system of evaluation and assures us that Rick is a top 5 GM. Nevermind the reason that there are always multiple spots for subpar rookies to start games, all that matters is they started those games.
I think it's funny the way you presented it. But... we're talking longest tenured. Ted Thompson has been the Packers GM since 2005. He's got a 61% win ratio, a SB, & a QB. Two QBS really. Rick Smith has been the Texans GM since 2007. He has a 50% win ratio, never had a QB.
Who's # 8, 9, & 10, and how do they compare?
& by the way, here's an article from 2016 where Rick is rated 20... Loomis is lower on the list.
Sigma
Veteran
so Flacco counts as franchise QB but Schaub no?
I'm sincerely curious, how do they compare? I thought the two were more or less comparable
edit: here's a comparison Flacco has been more consistent than schaub but other than that they are pretty similar if you compare just Schaub's stint with the Texans up untill 2012
I'm sincerely curious, how do they compare? I thought the two were more or less comparable
edit: here's a comparison Flacco has been more consistent than schaub but other than that they are pretty similar if you compare just Schaub's stint with the Texans up untill 2012
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This is a couple of years old, but I think for what we're saying... it's close enough.
Jerry Reese with the Giants
Thomas Dimitroff with the Falcons
Bruce Allen with Washington
Trent Blake San Francisco
Yeah, Ricky McNair sticks out like a sore thumb. Reese & Dimitroff have won Super Bowls & have their Franchise QBs & been GMs for shorter periods than Rick.
I don't know what their W-L record is over that time... Giants, Falcons... can't be much better. But that Super Bowl kinda trumps that.
Jerry Reese with the Giants
Thomas Dimitroff with the Falcons
Bruce Allen with Washington
Trent Blake San Francisco
Yeah, Ricky McNair sticks out like a sore thumb. Reese & Dimitroff have won Super Bowls & have their Franchise QBs & been GMs for shorter periods than Rick.
I don't know what their W-L record is over that time... Giants, Falcons... can't be much better. But that Super Bowl kinda trumps that.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The recent pattern by our Gm as demonstrated by the above info makes a strong case for him being more interested in holding on as GM than to putting together a SB team. In his entire time here, there has been no first round QB pick. That includes his history way before O'Brien's appearance on the scene. First round QB picks can very much hit and miss, requiring some luck but a great deal of homework and expertise to finding the gold, and if they flop?...........the GM typically is relegated to waterboy...........on another team.......... One can only find and blame a "fall guy" for so long before even the most unastute observer catches on to the game.
He dealt two 2nds for Schaub, which is the equivalent of a first & Matt performed as well as most first rounders since 2007.
Then it's not uncommon for a HC to go a couple of years with out drafting a first round QB. Pete Carroll for instance. While building a pretty good defense, he went through retread after retread. He even gave way too much money to an unproven backup.
The only difference from our situation is that their HC recognized their colossal mistake a lot earlier than ours did.