Number19
Hall of Fame
Carroll went through "retread after retread"? How many drafts? O'Brian has had 3. He's just entering his 4th draft and season.
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All encompassing Rick Smith thread
- Thread starter djohn2oo8
- Start date
Same thing. He signed Matt Flynn & drafted Russell Wilson in his third year with Seattle.
Osweiler was signed O'b year three & we already had Savage.
This is one of the few times your logic isn't sound. The very best way for a GM to secure a long term position is to build a team that contends, and wins, a SB (or two or three). So your opening sentence in this post just doesn't make sense to me.
Sigma
Veteran
I'd say the focus is more on "not sucking" rather than "winning"
as long as you keep having winning seasons and having a shot to go to the playoffs I think you will get the benefit of the doubt, when you start sucking then it will be more difficult to keep your job.
2013 was our chance to get a clean start, but of course we know that was not going to happen
this is not what I would do as an owner, this is what to me seems to be the MO, but it's not like I am an expert or anything, so it might be a wrong impression I'm getting
To be clear, I wasn't criticizing Doc's assessment of Smith's results. More the logic of "Smith only focusing on just keeping his job" as opposed to trying to build a winning team. There's no better way for him to 'keep his job' than to build a contending team.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Unless you are not capable of building a winning (SB) team.
That assumes the competency level required to do so.
Rick Smith seems to think he's the smartest guy in the room. Ran across this Chron Headline this morning, which makes you wonder...
What's next for Texans, the lone NFL team that hasn't signed an outside free agent.
That's right, 31/32 teams have signed outside free agents, except for the Texans 'brain trust'. Do we really think it's because they know something nobody else does?
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
If their intent is to build through the draft, then you better go get some more picks! There just aren't enough picks available to patch the holes created by this year's FA movement...away from the team.
.500 is what Ricky is all about.
Numbers don't lie
For those who defend him by saying the Texans haven't had a QB, they don't pick QB's and who's not picking QB's? The answer is Little Ricky McNair. There's a decade of proof and I don't think this yrs draft is going to change that trend.
Ricky must be hot for those 3rd thru 5th rd compensatory picks in the 2018 draft. It's just laughable.
The difference is Flacco played his best under pressure in the playoffs. Schaub not so much.
Wolfiegrrl
Fan of NFC Seahawks & AFC Texans
Is Rick Smith "taking a knee" on this year? I mean with the new league rule under the CBA that compensatory picks can now be traded, does he mean to let guys go in order to have a ton of picks next year? Is there some Magic 8 ball that he's using that we don't know about? Is that why he didn't shrug at dropping a 2nd round pick to get rid of our beautiful failure at QB?
And if he "takes a knee" on this years FA movement does that mean B'OB is gone before the start of 2018? I'm not sure how this team is going to get enough depth with this draft and UDFAs.
Our GM confuses the **** out of me.
-OR-
Rick Smith isn't being allowed to make moves in FA because he won't be the GM much longer....
And if he "takes a knee" on this years FA movement does that mean B'OB is gone before the start of 2018? I'm not sure how this team is going to get enough depth with this draft and UDFAs.
Our GM confuses the **** out of me.
-OR-
Rick Smith isn't being allowed to make moves in FA because he won't be the GM much longer....
Sigma
Veteran
Schaub went to the playoffs only once, after his injury which according to most people is what "ruined" him as a player.
I'm not trying to argue Schaub is better that he is, but I think he could have been our Flacco-like franchise QB, he never got the chance to play in the playoffs when he was in his prime and when we finally got there he was either injured or at the "end" of his career
Or even better put, neither Schaub nor Flacco are really "franchise QBs", but more likely good QBs that were part of the team, but not cornerstones
btw, this does not invalidate CND point about Rick sucking. I was just surprised to see flacco listed as a franchise qb when I never thought of him as one
(even if admittedly he has always been with the same franchise)
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
While hoping that O'Brien is gone and he can find a HC that won't challenge him. I firmly expect Smith to try to shop O'Brien again for a 2018 draft pick or two.
You need a QB.
Rick Smith has passed up on Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco (actually traded away the pick that got Joe Flacco) & never had a shot at Matt Ryan. Those are the only QBs drafted since Rick has been our GM that have won a Super Bowl. We passed on Kaepernick... surely you're not saying we should have drafted Kaepernick.
I'm not saying Rick Smith is a great GM. But the expectations are a little out of whack. I believe he has put together at least three teams that could have won a Super Bowl if he had a QB. Which QB are you saying Rick should have drafted?
I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So wasting those good teams that could have won with a QB but didn't because Rick doesn't draft QBs is OK with you?
I don't know what QB Rick should have drafted but I know what happens when you don't draft one.
What QB would you have taken. That's the question. It's not a matter of wasting teams, it's doing the best with what you've got. We passed on Flacco because we just got Schaub. We passed on Vince Young & Matt Lienart because they suck.
We passed on Derrek Carr & Bortles because they didn't believe in them.
We missed on Russell Wilson... I'm not going to be too hard on him for that.
When you bring in QB Gurus to lead your offense, I think Rick has brought in enough talent that we should have done better than we have. Imagine Kubiak brought in a competent defensive coordinator in Schaub's prime. Imagine O'brien could get Osweiler to take a step forward from where he was in Denver, & not backwards. That's not on Ricky McNair.
Agreed,
But when was Schaub ever considered clutch? I can tell you when Flacco was considered to be clutch. Maybe if Schaub had more of the clutch gene the Texans would've made the playoffs more often and I was a Schaub fan.
Flacco may not be a franchise QB, but in the playoffs he's proven he can rise his level of play to the Brady level of play. If the Texans could get Flacco level of play next yr they would be my SB favorites, because I know Flacco is going to play well in big games. He plays his best when the lights are there brightest and there's a lot to be said for that.
If TK is thinking of the same teams I am, we had pre-injury Schaub who was putting up 4000+ yd seasons. So QB wasn't a top need back then.
Now, once Schaub did sustain that foot injury, we should have been beating the bushes for his replacement. No argument from me on that.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
The goal is to win now but you've always got to be looking to the future as well. Settling on Schaub to, I guess last forever since they never addressed the position, is very short sighted, IMO, and it's why they're in the QB hell they're in.
The second Schaub was lost for the season should have been the sign to start adressing that future. Rick easily could have addressed in the very next draft and he passed. He passed on Wilson, Foles, and Cousins. The Texans had 5 picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds, 3 in the area where all 3 of them were taken, and he passed.
He sticks with Schaub, he falls off a cliff, now they're in desperation mode, and he passes again. Passes on Bridgewater, Garropolo and Carr.
Now, here we are 5 (FIVE) years after Schaub's last good season, and we're still not only looking for a QB, but the only one Rick has drafted since Schaub's season ending injury is Savage.
And if Rick didn't insist that Kubiak bring in a DC before they finally went after Wade, or he brings on a QB "guru" that really has nothing on his resume to indicate such (OB), then all of that falls on Rick.
The second Schaub was lost for the season should have been the sign to start adressing that future. Rick easily could have addressed in the very next draft and he passed. He passed on Wilson, Foles, and Cousins. The Texans had 5 picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds, 3 in the area where all 3 of them were taken, and he passed.
He sticks with Schaub, he falls off a cliff, now they're in desperation mode, and he passes again. Passes on Bridgewater, Garropolo and Carr.
Now, here we are 5 (FIVE) years after Schaub's last good season, and we're still not only looking for a QB, but the only one Rick has drafted since Schaub's season ending injury is Savage.
And if Rick didn't insist that Kubiak bring in a DC before they finally went after Wade, or he brings on a QB "guru" that really has nothing on his resume to indicate such (OB), then all of that falls on Rick.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
I'm never sure which side of the coin to be pissed at.... normally when I come on here the "Ricky" haters are doing one of two things.
a. Complaining that we will always suck until we get a football man in charge who makes all the decisions. Implying "Ricky" ain't in charge of squat.
b. Blaming Rick McNair personally for not drafting very many QB's.
Which is it? Which narrative am I supposed to use to vent my frustrations at? Weak willed "Ricky" who stands in the corner and does what big daddy tells him. Or the "Ricky" that is telling the owner and coach - screw you guys we ain't drafting no QB's win with what I gave you!
I'm not defending Rick Smith - I could care less. If it helps the team can his butt, if it is a neutral move and we bring in "Ricky McNair Jr" what difference did it make?
As others have said what franchise QB's did he miss on? It isn't like there are 31 now playing in the NFL who are franchise guys that Rick/the Texans didn't spend draft capitol on.
I could care less who the GM is, or if the team is run like a boardroom - what I care about is be successful however you decide to run your business. So I would like to see the TEXANS start drafting, teaching , coaching, QB's to success.
How they make that happen, or who they choose to blame for the failures isn't my concern.
a. Complaining that we will always suck until we get a football man in charge who makes all the decisions. Implying "Ricky" ain't in charge of squat.
b. Blaming Rick McNair personally for not drafting very many QB's.
Which is it? Which narrative am I supposed to use to vent my frustrations at? Weak willed "Ricky" who stands in the corner and does what big daddy tells him. Or the "Ricky" that is telling the owner and coach - screw you guys we ain't drafting no QB's win with what I gave you!
I'm not defending Rick Smith - I could care less. If it helps the team can his butt, if it is a neutral move and we bring in "Ricky McNair Jr" what difference did it make?
As others have said what franchise QB's did he miss on? It isn't like there are 31 now playing in the NFL who are franchise guys that Rick/the Texans didn't spend draft capitol on.
I could care less who the GM is, or if the team is run like a boardroom - what I care about is be successful however you decide to run your business. So I would like to see the TEXANS start drafting, teaching , coaching, QB's to success.
How they make that happen, or who they choose to blame for the failures isn't my concern.
True... I forgot about those. He could definitely had gotten Foles, Cousins, & I think Kolb was around that time too.
Agreed
What they've done for the last decade hasn't worked.
Time for McNair to hire new blood at all levels.
Or more of wash/rinse/repeat
zshawn10
All Pro
Brian T. Smith
✔@ChronBrianSmith
Rick Smith got an extension for signing Osweiler and spending McNair's money last year. O'Brien has to coach for and win his. #Texans
8:49 PM - 27 Mar 2017
✔@ChronBrianSmith
Rick Smith got an extension for signing Osweiler and spending McNair's money last year. O'Brien has to coach for and win his. #Texans
8:49 PM - 27 Mar 2017
This is why the Texans are the Texans.
Not good enough at the top and it appears the people at the top will be there for a while.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Just like a guy bragging about and getting credit for accomplishing the difficult task of making a baby.
Maybe.
Right now, the Texans look like the Rockets trying to find the right coach. Les & Daryl had been on the same page for years before they found a guy who could coach the team they wanted.
Nothing against O'b, but he may not be the guy McNair & Smith are looking for.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
We already knew that. What I learned is that the Texans won't be making a move like that ever again. They may sign or trade for a guy like Romo, but they won't do it for a young guy who is unproven again. Given that they've been opposed to investing high draft picks in QB, I expect they'll continue to rely on retreads and low draft picks.
I don't know that they are "opposed" to investing a high draft pick. I think it's just a matter of what is there at the time that they pick. As for this year, who is going to be available #25, and would it be a reach.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
It's not just 1st round, but the two rounds after as well.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
If they don't get Romo, they'll look like the biggest bunch of stooges in the entire NFL with how they just stripped themselves of a 2nd rounder draft pick just to free up Oz's contract a year early than they could have and they didn't even have another worthy QB to bring in. Rick Smith totally played himself.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
And next year, they won't have that 2nd round pick either anymore. They just threw it away like old food in the refrigerator.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
But if they don't use it to sign Romo (or someone) for this season, they'll still have the cap space it created. Unlike perishable foodstuffs, Cap Space doesn't go bad on you - even when left unrefrigerated.And next year, they won't have that 2nd round pick either anymore. They just threw it away like old food in the refrigerator.
Do you actually want them to sign Romo?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
If they don't this season is a waste, and they have no chance. If they aren't going to compete as a contender, then they might as well rebuild the team now and start over with a new HC regime that Rick Smith can ruin for a 3rd time.
The only reason why they let go of Oz was so they could free up the money to sign Romo. That's why they did it. If they don't get him, then they threw away that pick for nothing. That pick could have been used to draft another young QB. At this point, they need to spend like 3 draft picks on QB's every draft until they find him.
frethack
Rookie
There is rarely a decision that is made by a person or entity based solely on one motivational factor. One of the reasons they moved Os may have been to free up cap space to sign Romo, but I would argue that ridding the locker room of the disgruntled, whiny, former starting QB is likely to be another motivating factor. Ill bet that they would even like the cap space to front load an extension for Hopkins if possible. There are also surprise cuts of quality vets as training camp winds down, and perhaps they would like to be liquid in case that happens.
Maybe the trade was a "take it now or never" deal. No one knows. But we can certainly say that it is an oversimplification to imply a solitary motivation to the Os trade.
That being said...a 2nd is a steep price. Hopefully its worth it. We shall see.
Sigma
Veteran
that's not a motivation
Osweiler was completely inconsequential to the trade, he was an envelope we used to send a 2nd round pick to the browns in exchange for money (cap space)
ridding the team of osweiler doesn't count on the balance of the trade because you could have done that for free.
what actually goes on the balance is the 2nd round pick and the cap space
there's other stuff too which was included in the trade, to tweak the balance (which I don't remember by memory and I don't care enough to google right now) but removing Os from the team is not one of those things
now... you (general you, not YOU you) can argue the trade was good or bad based on the money and the cap space, but arguing that it was a good trade just based on the fact that we rid ourselves of OS is pure silliness
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I disagree that was the only reason. In fact, I'd venture to say that signing Romo didn't have anything to do with it. They had a 17 million dollar albatross to get off their back, and it took a 2nd rounder to get someone else to eat he contract.
I don't think they are going to sign Romo. I see them taking a QB in the draft, and I believe I read somewhere that O'Brien plans to go with Savage next season.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
It's the family business. And Rick is a part of the family. We are screwed.
Maybe one day we can Luck into a qb like Colts or Cowboys or Pats.
We really caught the short end of the stick when no qb worthy of top pick last time we had it. I mean there really wasn't a qb worth taking over Clowney in a draft that produced studs at other positions.
I hate the texans.
I feel better now
Maybe one day we can Luck into a qb like Colts or Cowboys or Pats.
We really caught the short end of the stick when no qb worthy of top pick last time we had it. I mean there really wasn't a qb worth taking over Clowney in a draft that produced studs at other positions.
I hate the texans.
I feel better now
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Okay then why did they do it? They haven't signed jack since then. They haven't made any trades. Freeing up that cash didn't was pointless then. They still have no QB and, the only reason why they would have done that would have been to get Romo or some other QB that was going to cost money. There was no other rumors of any other big name players at other positions they were highly coveting. The Romo rumors were strong as hell, and the only main reason why they say that Jerry won't let him go now is to keep him out of Houston. Sorry, but you've gone completely delusional if you think the Texans didn't do that for any other reason, and especially the fact that you're justifying them pissing away a 2nd rounder for absolutely nothing. They would have already made whatever move they were going to make. They look like total clowns as usual, and it should be hilarious watching them stumble on offense again with your boy Savage.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This is so freaking laughable man. Where do you come up with this crap? Oz isn't relevant enough to become a team cancer. He sucks, and no one gives him the credence to have that kind of impact especially going into this season. They could have just cut Oz and kept their draft pick instead if they weren't going to get a new QB any way and wanted him off the roster. That extra cap space isn't going to do jack for us without a significant improvement at QB. They didn't go out and sign top FA defensive players or make trades where they had to acquire players with higher contracts. They haven't done squat. They just floundered their 2nd rounder so they could get rid of a back up QB that wasn't even a problem on their team other than playing like crap after having high expectations. You don't piss away draft picks to save cap space unless you intend on making significant moves to make a SB run. They did it to get Romo, but we're to stupid to anticipate that Jerry might keep his ass and they had no back up plan.
Good grief, another off season of Texans homers making excuses for the ineptitude of Rick Smith's failures.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
But if they don't use it to sign Romo (or someone) for this season, they'll still have the cap space it created. Unlike perishable foodstuffs, Cap Space doesn't go bad on you - even when left unrefrigerated.
What difference will that make with Tom Savage and the other stooges will have at QB? Oh we'll have Oz's cap space!! Yippee!!!
And next season when they need to draft QB's every other round that 2nd is gone while they gained nothing but cap space they would have had any way the next year.
J.J. Watt is a damn fool for staying here just like Andre Johnson was.
frethack
Rookie
Calm down, man. I'm definitely not a "Rick Smith homer" and I'm not in the habit of making excuses for him. That was just your blind, and rather obtuse, interpretation of my post.
I was pointing out what should be VERY obvious. The motivations for the Os trade are more nuanced than just making cap space for Romo. Then I gave some *hypothetical* but plausible motivations. I say *hypothetical* because I understand that there are a lot of conversations and information that I'm not privy to. Just because I think Smith should have been fired 4 years ago doesn't mean that I think he's a simpleton who only sees in black and white.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I too agree that Smith is not a simpleton who only sees in black and white........just a simpleton, who is totally blind to how to successfully build an elite team.
frethack
Rookie
Hyperbole is fun. I get it.
Whole heartedly agreed that Rick Smith will not give us an elite team. I'm also pretty sure hes not a simpleton.
There are people as gifted between the ears as yourself who can't balance a bank account, much less run an NFL team. The issue is with Rick Smiths career choice, not his intelligence
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Ricky McNair definitely isn't a simpleton.
A con man yes, a simpleton, no.
But hey he's made millions and will make many more, so what do I know?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm glad you recognized the hyperbole. Hyperbole is what it was meant to be.......hyperbole with a poignant inarguable conclusion.
frethack
Rookie
Apologies for the abrasiveness, Doc, and your conclusion is certainly inarguable.I'm glad you recognized the hyperbole. Hyperbole is what it was meant to be.......hyperbole with a poignant inarguable conclusion.