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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

infantrycak said:
One of the reasons I'm so disappointed Watson went down is the excuse it gives to keep OB. My suspicion is with time OB would have tried to impose more of 'the system' on Watson with an ensuing debate over rookie slump v. 'the system.'
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That would've been about as bone-headed a thing to do as I can imagine. When your team is wracking up 30+ ppg, you don't try to fix it til it's broke. I didn't see anything that suggested OB would do that.
 
Belichick Fan said:
@ColeThornton I assume that @infantrycak closed that thread you started because it became a silly argument about how original or unoriginal your OP was. Furthermore, that thread did generate some interesting discussion, but it was not that topically different this thread. If you actually want to get a sense for folk's negative opinions on OB, you can look over this fire-OB thread here. This O'Brien's Negangled Offense thread gives a more positive OB review, with some negative dissenters. Recent posts in the all encompassing Rick Smith thread might also be topical. If you want to get a sense of how much these things have been talked about outside of your 3-4 thread, you can start with this stuff. I don't think it is on @JB or anyone else to get you caught up.

Perhaps you actually want to constructively debate if OB should be fired or not. This post of mine is my best attempt at making an argument for the "keep OB" position. From what I understand, arguing for OB's firing and explaining why those three arguments of mine are wrong is still within the scope of this thread.
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Actually, the post was not intended to spark a discussion about firing O'Brien, I realize there are many threads in that regard. I was in the car on Nov. 8 listening to 610. It was the 8am to 9 segment and John McClain was asked if O'Brien was on the hot seat. He replied(paraphrasing), that the head coach had nothing to worry about as it is not his fault his QB got hurt and he will be back next year. The intent of my post was to see how others felt about O'Brien getting a free pass this year due to Watson's injury. I don't believe he should and I was curious what others thought. If this point had been made before, I missed it.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 
I don't think it would be fair to have O'Brien coach in the last year of his contract.
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Fair? Oh my god OB might have to answer questions about being on the hot seat. Waaaaah.

Prove something other than you can hire buddy Crennel.
 
DocBar said:
That would've been about as bone-headed a thing to do as I can imagine. When your team is wracking up 30+ ppg, you don't try to fix it til it's broke. I didn't see anything that suggested OB would do that.
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Hate of all things BOB is why that suggestion was made.
 
infantrycak said:
Track record was why the suggestion was made. You're big on track record when it suits.
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His track record with Watson is pretty good, if you were objective he changed his offense with DW4, what changes has he made with other QB's do you think makes what you posted likely to happen.
 
steelbtexan said:
His track record with Watson is pretty good, if you were objective he changed his offense with DW4, what changes has he made with other QB's do you think makes what you posted likely to happen.
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As I've stated before, see Keenum, TJ, Weedon. He goes temporarily off script and right back on even though we were 5-0 with them starting.

His track record with Watson was abysmal. Not recognizing Watson and preparing him all summer to start was ridiculous. Spare me the anonymous rumor about starting game 1. OB had Savage as planned starter all off-season. So when Watson went in he had to adapt to his under-prepared QB.
 
ColeThornton said:
Actually, the post was not intended to spark a discussion about firing O'Brien, I realize there are many threads in that regard. I was in the car on Nov. 8 listening to 610. It was the 8am to 9 segment and John McClain was asked if O'Brien was on the hot seat. He replied(paraphrasing), that the head coach had nothing to worry about as it is not his fault his QB got hurt and he will be back next year. The intent of my post was to see how others felt about O'Brien getting a free pass this year due to Watson's injury. I don't believe he should and I was curious what others thought. If this point had been made before, I missed it.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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I don't think he should get a pass for the Watson injury, but for starting the season with our O-Line, and losing our two best defensive players in addition to Watson, yes he should be given a pass. Should Mike McCarthy be on the hot seat for the Packers, obviously he can't coach without Rodgers. Garrett is awful now without Zeke and Sean Lee. There is only one coach in the league that can routinely find success when hit with the injury bug. The second we let O'Brien go he has another job. Fire OB after what has happened this season and good coaches aren't going to be knocking down the door to be next man up.
 
infantrycak said:
As I've stated before, see Keenum, TJ, Weedon. He goes temporarily off script and right back on even though we were 5-0 with them starting.

His track record with Watson was abysmal. Not recognizing Watson and preparing him all summer to start was ridiculous. Spare me the anonymous rumor about starting game 1. OB had Savage as planned starter all off-season. So when Watson went in he had to adapt to his under-prepared QB.
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BOB let Ricky change his mind and that's another reason he should be fired.

Speaking of changing minds, it appears you wont be changing yours.

# BOB's a liar.
 
steelbtexan said:
BOB let Ricky change his mind and that's another reason he should be fired.
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If any of that happened at all. It makes zero sense so without corroboration I'm not buying it.

Speaking of changing minds, it appears you wont be changing yours.

# BOB's a liar.
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I choose to believe OB's 10 consistent statements over his 1 inconsistent statement.
 
infantrycak said:
If any of that happened at all. It makes zero sense so without corroboration I'm not buying it.



I choose to believe OB's 10 consistent statements over his 1 inconsistent statement.
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He seems to make a lot of inconsistent comments in your book. Those inconsistent statements only started at the end of last yr and carried forward to this yr. Do you find this odd, or a future trend with BOB and your thought process towards BOB's thought processes? Or are you thinking the way you do because you don't like BOB and HIS WORDS don't fit what you previously have thought about the Texans hierarchy
 
One. One statement doesn't fit with HIS other statements. It is also inconsistent with the statements of others. It struck me as a frustrated moment of denial like his 'don't ask me about clock management' hissy.
 
infantrycak said:
One. One statement doesn't fit with HIS other statements. It is also inconsistent with the statements of others. It struck me as a frustrated moment of denial like his 'don't ask me about clock management' hissy.
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Seemed timely.
 
infantrycak said:
As I've stated before, see Keenum, TJ, Weedon. He goes temporarily off script and right back on even though we were 5-0 with them starting.

His track record with Watson was abysmal. Not recognizing Watson and preparing him all summer to start was ridiculous. Spare me the anonymous rumor about starting game 1. OB had Savage as planned starter all off-season. So when Watson went in he had to adapt to his under-prepared QB.
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Watson looked pretty bad in the preseason and Savage looked pretty good. It's hard to knock that call without retrospect. I have suspicions that Watson might be one of those rare players that ball out on game day and not so much in practice. They understand, at a basic level, that the games are more important than practice and can bring it when it's on the line much more than when it isn't. Kind of an anti Tom Brady/Peyton Manning thing going on there.
 
adama51 said:
I imagine if @infantrycak and @steelbtexan were ever minding their own business in the same room together their blood pressure would rise mysteriously even though they have have never seen each other's face lol They would both sense a "disturbance in the force"
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Great guy

Interesting to talk too.

Great stories, an amazing life.

I consider him to be a friend, we like challenging each other and are both very strong willed people. Which I really appreciate.
 
gs27 said:
I don't think he should get a pass for the Watson injury, but for starting the season with our O-Line, and losing our two best defensive players in addition to Watson, yes he should be given a pass. Should Mike McCarthy be on the hot seat for the Packers, obviously he can't coach without Rodgers. Garrett is awful now without Zeke and Sean Lee. There is only one coach in the league that can routinely find success when hit with the injury bug. The second we let O'Brien go he has another job. Fire OB after what has happened this season and good coaches aren't going to be knocking down the door to be next man up.
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I would say that everyone in the FO and the team scouts could wear that Blue Cap with the slogan "Let's Make the Texans Poor Again!" O'Brien claims he only coaches what the team gives him to coach and RS diddles the McNair's while saying he's only going after the players the Texans Scouting Unit (Not his unit) say fit the grand scheme of things. Anyone ever play Hot Potato or Musical Chairs? It was always fun to watch the song end abruptly while everyone scrambles to find a position...I mean chair. I've heard RS is really good at Musical Chairs.

I would bet most reputable coaches wouldn't touch this organization with RS still at the helm.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I would say that everyone in the FO and the team scouts could wear that Blue Cap with the slogan "Let's Make the Texans Poor Again!" O'Brien claims he only coaches what the team gives him to coach and RS diddles the McNair's while saying he's only going after the players the Texans Scouting Unit (Not his unit) say fit the grand scheme of things. Anyone ever play Hot Potato or Musical Chairs? It was always fun to watch the song end abruptly while everyone scrambles to find a position...I mean chair. I've heard RS is really good at Musical Chairs.

I would bet most reputable coaches wouldn't touch this organization with RS still at the helm.
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# you just perfectly described the life with a sociology major in charge.
 
DocBar said:
Watson looked pretty bad in the preseason and Savage looked pretty good. It's hard to knock that call without retrospect. I have suspicions that Watson might be one of those rare players that ball out on game day and not so much in practice. They understand, at a basic level, that the games are more important than practice and can bring it when it's on the line much more than when it isn't. Kind of an anti Tom Brady/Peyton Manning thing going on there.
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Man look here, Bill O'Brien stated several times starting from the draft to the entire preseason that Savage was his starter. It had nothing to do with Savage looking great in the preseason and Watson looking like a rookie. He made sure Savage got all the first team reps. He could not go against his strong words. Plus I strongly think he wanted to show Bob and Rick that he knew what he was doing and he's finally right for a change.

I also think Watson showed some promise throughout training camp. They were running plays that catered to his strengths. A lot of the Texans beat writers were stating these things in their reports. Unfortunately he was only doing it with the 2nd stringers.
 
As I extend OB only thing I demand from him is to let one person sole job is clock management. That takes a lot off his plate and helps him cause lord knows he needs it. Anyways I think Rick Smith has done a pretty good job, there is no such thing as a perfect GM. Yea he has made some mistakes but he also has some done great things.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
As I extend OB only thing I demand from him is to let one person sole job is clock management. That takes a lot off his plate and helps him cause lord knows he needs it. Anyways I think Rick Smith has done a pretty good job, there is no such thing as a perfect GM. Yea he has made some mistakes but he also has some done great things.
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Actually his job is to clock manage. He needs to hire a real OC to manage the offense while he concentrates on being a head coach.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
As I extend OB only thing I demand from him is to let one person sole job is clock management. That takes a lot off his plate and helps him cause lord knows he needs it. Anyways I think Rick Smith has done a pretty good job, there is no such thing as a perfect GM. Yea he has made some mistakes but he also has some done great things.
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If you love mediocrity then Ricky has done a bang up job.

But hey, we can all still show up to NRG and get drunk (Which we need too after watching the team this yr) and the tailgaiting is still great. Y'all come on down and buy those $9.00 beers. # Bob/Ricky McNair.

I'm going to the beach.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
With Deshaun back there I prefer to not mess up what OB and Deshaun had going by bringing in an OC.
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I don't think Bill will be our coach after this season. Watson is a student of this game, so whoever we bring in will be able to click with him just like Bill did. We also have to know Watson's elusiveness and high IQ was the reason why it looked the way that it did.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Man look here, Bill O'Brien stated several times starting from the draft to the entire preseason that Savage was his starter. It had nothing to do with Savage looking great in the preseason and Watson looking like a rookie. He made sure Savage got all the first team reps. He could not go against his strong words. Plus I strongly think he wanted to show Bob and Rick that he knew what he was doing and he's finally right for a change.

I also think Watson showed some promise throughout training camp. They were running plays that catered to his strengths. A lot of the Texans beat writers were stating these things in their reports. Unfortunately he was only doing it with the 2nd stringers.
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You know, there was another rumor circulating that O'Brien actually wanted to start Watson and RS decided it would be better to start Savage...and who knows, maybe that came straight from McNair's mouth. Again, this is really mox-nix since O'Brien yanked Savage at halftime of the first game and didn't think twice about giving him any first team reps until Watson got injured. That move, in my estimation, was an in-your-face move against RS. This soap opera is going to get interesting down the stretch...especially if RS has plans of getting O'Brien ousted. Hopefully, someone rifles some smelling-salts up Mcnair's nostrils in due time so he can be coherent enough to realize RS is just as much at fault for the mess this organization finds itself in.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
With Deshaun back there I prefer to not mess up what OB and Deshaun had going by bringing in an OC.
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Don't worry about the playbook...behind this OL it became very simplified:

1. Run For Your Life - Right

2. Run For Your Life - Left

3. The Step-Up - Then Run For Your Life - Right or Left - Your Read

4. Hand The Ball Off and Get The Hell Out of Harms Way

Get an OL and then a real NFL Playbook strategy can be incorporated.
 
I will be surprised if he goes anywhere. Too many injuries this season will be the saving grace. Watson's promise will save Rick and bob
 
Texansballer74 said:
I don't think Bill will be our coach after this season. Watson is a student of this game, so whoever we bring in will be able to click with him just like Bill did. We also have to know Watson's elusiveness and high IQ was the reason why it looked the way that it did.
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Although that is true it’s gonna be really hard to justify firing OB when with deshaun texans has #1 scoring offense. I would give it another 2 seasons.


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Jadmakaveli said:
Although that is true it’s gonna be really hard to justify firing OB when with deshaun texans has #1 scoring offense. I would give it another 2 seasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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He has been miserable but for Deshaun. That should not be a saving grace. It means it's likely someone else would get even more out of Deshaun. If he coaches out the remainder of his contract, i.e. 2018, so be it. But hell no to any extensions.
 
infantrycak said:
He has been miserable but for Deshaun. That should not be a saving grace. It means it's likely someone else would get even more out of Deshaun. If he coaches out the remainder of his contract, i.e. 2018, so be it. But hell no to any extensions.
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If he was to be let go, who would we go after?


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I would expect to see O'Brian get an extension for 4 years to see how he develops Watson. That seems to be McNair and Smith's M.O. I'm not against it. But looking at what we had for six games makes me okay with taking a shot with O'Brian again. However, the strength training staff and the jackholes that work the fieldturf need to be fired! Too many stupid injuries that could have been avoided.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
You know, there was another rumor circulating that O'Brien actually wanted to start Watson and RS decided it would be better to start Savage...and who knows, maybe that came straight from McNair's mouth. Again, this is really mox-nix since O'Brien yanked Savage at halftime of the first game and didn't think twice about giving him any first team reps until Watson got injured. That move, in my estimation, was an in-your-face move against RS. This soap opera is going to get interesting down the stretch...especially if RS has plans of getting O'Brien ousted. Hopefully, someone rifles some smelling-salts up Mcnair's nostrils in due time so he can be coherent enough to realize RS is just as much at fault for the mess this organization finds itself in.
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There are so many rumors surrounding this teams front office. Yes I've heard that one OptimisticTexan. We have heard the rumor of Bill O'Brien not wanting to be here and how him and Rick doesn't get along. We've heard the Texans were going to wait until his last season here to see if he's worth extending. From the 4 year data that they have and the icing on the cake season of a very probable 5-11 record. I just don't see McNair and Rick given O'Brien an extension. And I don't think O'Brien wants to be extended because of all the drama he had to put up with. It's actually best that they go their separate ways IMO.
 
Wolfiegrrl said:
I would expect to see O'Brian get an extension for 4 years to see how he develops Watson. That seems to be McNair and Smith's M.O. I'm not against it. But looking at what we had for six games makes me okay with taking a shot with O'Brian again. However, the strength training staff and the jackholes that work the fieldturf need to be fired! Too many stupid injuries that could have been avoided.
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Let's not forget Izzo. How he still has a job on an NFL team is beyond me. I recognize ST needs depth to be effective but as long as he has been here we have sucked. If we get some consistent returns, a kick/punt block or two and less penalties then we would be in better shape.
 
JB said:
o'Brien was the top choice on this board after Kubiak was fired
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Ok I wasn't here then. But on other forums and in the media Bill O'Brien wasn't talked about like that JB. When he was hired quite of few people were like WTF is this guy. Some were mad and then yiu had a few that were pleased.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Ok I wasn't here then. But on other forums and in the media Bill O'Brien wasn't talked about like that JB. When he was hired quite of few people were like WTF is this guy. Some were mad and then yiu had a few that were pleased.
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It's like that when any new coach was hired... some were mad when Kubiak was hired and some were pleased
 
Bill is not perfect but he's done a good job at playing a bad hand . I think that once Vrable got some stick time , had the injuries not happened the Texans would be a threat in the AFC . When they did happen it revealed some warts in the secondary and the OL . The OL is inexcusable and with the Brock O fiasco , should get someone fired .
 
DocBar said:
Watson looked pretty bad in the preseason and Savage looked pretty good. It's hard to knock that call without retrospect. I have suspicions that Watson might be one of those rare players that ball out on game day and not so much in practice. They understand, at a basic level, that the games are more important than practice and can bring it when it's on the line much more than when it isn't. Kind of an anti Tom Brady/Peyton Manning thing going on there.
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Savage appears to be a practice warrior. He does everything the coaches tell him in controlled situations and probably looks good doing it. But, when the heat is on and he's pressured in real time game situations, he folds.

Watson is probably the opposite, where his improvisational skills are not welcomed in practice and gets yelled at for not following the script. But, in games, when it matters, he does his thing and it's tough for a coach to yell too much when the results are dynamic and lots of touchdowns.

infantrycak said:
He has been miserable but for Deshaun. That should not be a saving grace. It means it's likely someone else would get even more out of Deshaun. If he coaches out the remainder of his contract, i.e. 2018, so be it. But hell no to any extensions.
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His offense sucks. We have noted, year after year, that it continues to regress. And the simple fact that O'Brien has held on to Savage for four seasons, let him get all the reps to be a starter in the offseason, and what we see is supposed to represent O'Brien?

No thanks.

Like we've chatted before, Watson will make just about anyone's offense look good if catered to his skillset. I can only imagine what he'd look like in Kubiak's offensive scheme with the right pieces around him.

After 16 seasons, we are still unsure how to read Uncle Bob and how he's going to handle this head coach situation. It's a critical time for Watson's development, and there is some rebuilding to do. I can see it going either way, tbh.

adama51 said:
Let's not forget Izzo. How he still has a job on an NFL team is beyond me. I recognize ST needs depth to be effective but as long as he has been here we have sucked. If we get some consistent returns, a kick/punt block or two and less penalties then we would be in better shape.
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Texans ST - with the exception of the punter and kicker - has sucked before Izzo. Joe Marciano was getting blamed, but he seems to be a better ST coach in Detroit. The truth is the FO (i.e. GM & HC) need to add the right depth for ST to flourish. No ST coach can make chicken salad out of chicken poop. That poop comes from FO decisions.
 
Double Barrel said:
Savage appears to be a practice warrior. He does everything the coaches tell him in controlled situations and probably looks good doing it. But, when the heat is on and he's pressured in real time game situations, he folds.

Watson is probably the opposite, where his improvisational skills are not welcomed in practice and gets yelled at for not following the script. But, in games, when it matters, he does his thing and it's tough for a coach to yell too much when the results are dynamic and lots of touchdowns.



His offense sucks. We have noted, year after year, that it continues to regress. And the simple fact that O'Brien has held on to Savage for four seasons, let him get all the reps to be a starter in the offseason, and what we see is supposed to represent O'Brien?

No thanks.

Like we've chatted before, Watson will make just about anyone's offense look good if catered to his skillset. I can only imagine what he'd look like in Kubiak's offensive scheme with the right pieces around him.

After 16 seasons, we are still unsure how to read Uncle Bob and how he's going to handle this head coach situation. It's a critical time for Watson's development, and there is some rebuilding to do. I can see it going either way, tbh.



Texans ST - with the exception of the punter and kicker - has sucked before Izzo. Joe Marciano was getting blamed, but he seems to be a better ST coach in Detroit. The truth is the FO (i.e. GM & HC) need to add the right depth for ST to flourish. No ST coach can make chicken salad out of chicken poop. That poop comes from FO decisions.
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Show me a team with good special teams and I will show you a deep , athletic roster .
 
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