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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

banned1976 said:
Who is your next HC? Who is that Watson teacher/whisperer that could assemble an offensive staff to accommodate? Name some candidates, if you can. I actually have some viable candidates. Do you?

You seem to think it's easy to assemble an entire coaching staff overnight. But I bet you don't have one name in mind that would make sense that could make it all happen.
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I don't know yet. Ask me in February when cuts and changes happen, as well as 'almost' coaches distinguish themselves in the playoffs. Obviously it is easy to assemble a staff since you've already got viable candidates in November (kinda killed your own argument there). I will say that whoever is on your list will have more experience than our current staff, because it would be almost impossible not to.
 
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Scooter said:
I don't know yet. Ask me in February when cuts and changes happen, as well as 'almost' coaches distinguish themselves in the playoffs. Obviously it is easy to assemble a staff since you've already got viable candidates in November (kinda killed your own argument there). I will say that whoever is on your list will have more experience than our current staff, because it would be almost impossible not to.
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Kubiak is off the board.

LOL
 
Scooter said:
I don't know yet. Ask me in February when cuts and changes happen, as well as 'almost' coaches distinguish themselves in the playoffs. Obviously it is easy to assemble a staff since you've already got viable candidates in November (kinda killed your own argument there). I will say that whoever is on your list will have more experience than our current staff, because it would be almost impossible not to.
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I like Jim Schwartz or Matt Patricia.
 
Scooter said:
First - anyone suggesting a Belichick disciple at head coach is too ignorant to be taken seriously. What do either of these coaches bring with them? Being a successful nobody is how we have our current offensive staff.
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What's "Second"? You have a "First", no "second", "third", "fourth" etc. Finish your thoughts, don't leave your audience breathless with anticipation. I was so looking forward to your second thought. Now I don't care. Bummer.
 
banned1976 said:
What's "Second"? You have a "First", no "second", "third", "fourth" etc. Finish your thoughts, don't leave your audience breathless with anticipation. I was so looking forward to your second thought. Now I don't care. Bummer.
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You're right, I got sidetracked during my post and mashed following thoughts together. Kinda weird that you noticed that instead of defending your 'first'.

A wandering DC with little following and Belichick's current flunky at DC ... yes, please tell me more. Call it 'second'.
 
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Scooter said:
You're right, I got sidetracked during my post and mashed following thoughts together. Kinda weird that you noticed that instead of defending your 'first'.
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Weird? I guess we notice what we want. I mentioned 3 candidates for HC job in the event O'Brien was fired and you noticed just one, Matt Patricia.
 
Scooter said:
You're right, I got sidetracked during my post and mashed following thoughts together. Kinda weird that you noticed that instead of defending your 'first'.

A wandering DC with little following and Belichick's current flunky at DC ... yes, please tell me more. Call it 'second'.
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Pick your own candidates. I think you just want to complain.
 
banned1976 said:
Pick your own candidates. I think you just want to complain.
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You hit the one thing I cant argue against, I do enjoy to complain. It all started 4 years ago. There was a decade of evidence about how Belichick's children didn't actually get the education that outsiders assumed. Coaches and coordinators kept getting hired, taking a mountain of underlings with them, and shitting the bed. Belichick kept on winning. Owners and fans kept the lottery mentality ... THIS is the one.

Again, I'll pick candidates when they're realistically available in a couple months.
 
Scooter said:
You hit the one thing I cant argue against, I do enjoy to complain. It all started 4 years ago. There was a decade of evidence about how Belichick's children didn't actually get the education that outsiders assumed. Coaches and coordinators kept getting hired, taking a mountain of underlings with them, and shitting the bed. Belichick kept on winning. Owners and fans kept the lottery mentality ... THIS is the one.

Again, I'll pick candidates when they're realistically available in a couple months.
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There is only one BB/Brady... that combination won't come again in our lifetime
 
Double Barrel said:
Yeah, I agree. We've seen O'Brien's scheme with 9 different QBs, and it has regressed every year with the sole exception of the one QB who has instincts and athletic ability to make plays outside of the scheme.

Yep, I figured some of y'all saw that segment, as well. And that's the one. That one scene revealed a lot of things to me, but the takeaway is Watson is a badass with lots of potential and O'Brien is just in his way.
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It's was always nice when a couple of the Texans QB's (Watson and Keenum) were able to hit receivers in stride for TD's after they had beat the defender. The rest of the QB's never seem capable of getting the ball to the receiver when they had beaten the defender, it was slow down, give up the cushion, and fight for the reception.

Watson's play improved O'Brien's appearance as an NFL HC and managed to make RS look like genius...but, that one stroke of genius in no way makes up for the Osweiler blunder, years of bad picks in the later rounds or bad extensions given in the past.

The primary goal for 2018, get Watson an OL that can help him get through 2018 without a major injury. Watson wowed a lot of folks with his ability to spin gold out of straw but at some point that luck would eventually run out. Several teams have figured this out the hard way this season when bad play or injuries hit their OL and all of a sudden their QB's look average at best.

To RS...it is what it is going into this off-season and the draft but since you created this bed of dire need, you're going to have to find a solution. I'd probably have more than few of my scouts watching the Division II Playoffs in the hopes of identifying a few late round sleepers. Find some players that can get this team through 2018, then look forward to what you can do, to really set the table in 2019.
 
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Personally, I don't think RS's tenure as the Texans GM would have the strength to lure a top HC. Probably not even a top rated coordinator since there will be some teams looking for coaches in the off-season. Also, I haven't even taken into account the amount of college jobs that will be available this year. This is going to be a big year for up and coming coaches with potential.

This team has been littered with first time HC's and bad GM's. The Texans need to break away from this trend and fire the whole lot. McNair needs to bring in some men who have NFL winning credentials on their resume and then sprinkle in some up and coming talent to work with these guru's of winning. McNair!!!....you've spent 15 years doing it your way and have nothing but disaster after disaster to show for it...time to wise up or man up and make some tough personnel decisions in conjunction with bringing in a new regime that will actually work together towards a common goal instead of engaging in personal agendas.

If the slate is clean...the Texans have the pieces to lure a top GM and HC in, Watson, Hopkins, Fuller, Foreman, Martin and Mancz on offense....Watt, Clowney, Reader, Watkins, Mercilus, McKinney, Cunningham, Johnson, Joseph, and Jackson on defense....Fairbarn on special teams. This represents a core from which to build. The Texans need the stability of an old school approach with a sprinkle of young blood to keep the energy up and positive. This whole process would be to build this franchise for success in 2018 and beyond. Teams develop players with future long-term success in mind...I would take the same approach with the FO Staff and Coaching Staff as well.

Bill Polian (ESPN Analyst / 75 yrs old / Wrote a nice article: "Building a Franchise & Finding Your Peyton Manning". Mr Polian, the Texans have found their Peyton Manning (Maybe even better) but have screwed the pooch in regards to the first part...would you like to give it a try for 2 to 3 years while mentoring a young and talented protege?)

Eliot Wolf (Director of Football Operations- GB Packers / 35 yrs old / 2004-2016, he served in the Pro Personnel Department- GB and was finally promoted to Department Director in 2016. Texans would be able to offer him the Assistant GM position under Bill Polian for a couple of season before getting promoted to Texans GM. It might be tough for Wolf to leave the Packers organization but gaining another promotion and getting 2 seasons with Polian might be too good to pass up...considering GM is all but guaranteed. Could be a much faster road than the one the Packers are offering. Also, I would think that based on his time working pro personnel, he'd have a very good idea as to how to assemble a solid scouting staff.)

Bill Cowher (NFL Today / 60 yrs old / Stated in 2009 that he didn't plan on coaching in the immediate future. I think the right talent and great contract offer could get him back on the sideline. / Has the game passed him by? NO! He's had years of watching and observing each and every HC in the NFL. What I always respected about Cowher? He wasn't a micro-manager and always trusted his coordinators do their job while he did his job. Getting him Whisenhunt and LeBeau would just help create that instant stability. Having Polian and Wolf at the top would give him a tandem that he could respect and work with.)

Ken Whisenhunt (OC - Chargers / 55 yrs old / Could Cowher-Texans get permission to talk to Ken? I think Watson, Hopkins, Fuller and Foreman could get him to take the same position with the Texans. / Has the game passed him by? No, look at the Chargers offense.)

Dick Lebeau (DC - Titans / Healthiest looking 80 yr old on the planet! / Same as above but I think the talent on this defense could easily lure him to rejoin Cowher in Houston. / Has the defensive game passed him by? No way, he just needs the talent to incorporate his system to full value.)

The key, ask these coaches to bring in young and talented staff members who can be further developed along the way. The best thing about the group mentioned above...they would command the respect of each and every player. Again, this plan has to be for today while building for the future.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Personally, I don't think ...
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You buy lottery tickets don't you?

Odds are higher on those than any of that stuff happening. 3 lateral moves - zero chance and 2 Jurassic Park clones.

And would someone please drive a stake thru Cowher's heart so we don't have to hear sugar plum dreams of him every friggin' year? For god's sake they wore leather helmets when he last coached.
 
infantrycak said:
And would someone please drive a stake thru Cowher's heart so we don't have to hear sugar plum dreams of him every friggin' year? For god's sake they wore leather helmets when he last coached.
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Ok, I laughed much harder at that than I probably should've, but the mental image was too easy to create.
 
JB said:
There is only one BB/Brady... that combination won't come again in our lifetime
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I'm really interested to see how Lil Shanny and Jimmy G do in a couple of yrs, if Jimmy G can survive the beating he's about to take.
 
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infantrycak said:
You buy lottery tickets don't you?

Odds are higher on those than any of that stuff happening. 3 lateral moves - zero chance and 2 Jurrasic Park clones.

And would someone please drive a stake thru Cowher's heart so we don't have to hear sugar plum dreams of him every friggin' year? For god's sake they wore leather helmets when he last coached.
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Agreed (though I'm not nearly as pessimistic about him as you seem to be). Sometimes it's enough already and you just want people to stop bringing up Bill Cowher. It would be different if he was constantly stirring the pot and dropping little hints that in the right place, at the right time he might want to get back into the game. Like Gruden does (mostly I think for attention in his case) but he doesn't do that.

I think he could build something somewhere if he wanted to but I really, really, really....... really don't think he wants to mess with it anymore. Guys get out of coaching and (I believe) they see how people in the real world live and if they stay out of it long enough they never will go back. There are exceptions now and then but they are rare. The ones who go back either coach at any level just to keep coaching or they only stay out a year or two at most.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Don't worry about the playbook...behind this OL it became very simplified:

1. Run For Your Life - Right

2. Run For Your Life - Left

3. The Step-Up - Then Run For Your Life - Right or Left - Your Read

4. Hand The Ball Off and Get The Hell Out of Harms Way

Get an OL and then a real NFL Playbook strategy can be incorporated.
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Been saying this for awhile.

Got their franchise QB hurt using this philosophy.
 
Or Mike McCoy for OC and Vrabel as HC.

I suspect Vrabel will be tossed around as a replacement for OB. Don’t know if her would take it out of loyalty.
 
bOODRO87 said:
“If we go back and really analyze the Brock Osweiler signing, I think Rick Smith went ahead, acted on his own as the general manager … and went ahead and signed him. … I talked to the coaches there and there wasn’t a lot of love [for Osweiler]. My sense of it is, yes you’re right, you can make that statement. But I think the general manager made this [move] more than the coaching staff in a unified decision.”
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Where does this quote come from? It was not in the article that you linked and I have never read it before now.

Everything that I have read about the Osweiler signing indicates that it was a collective boardroom decision with O'Brien in agreement with it.
 
TexansBull said:
Or Mike McCoy for OC and Vrabel as HC.

I suspect Vrabel will be tossed around as a replacement for OB. Don’t know if her would take it out of loyalty.
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McCoy would be hit or miss to me as OC but Vrabel needs to prove to be a consistent DC before we talk about any promotions
 
bOODRO87 said:
Here you go. https://torotimes.com/2017/04/05/houston-texans-brock-osweiler-was-never-bill-obriens-guy/

It came straight out of McNair's mouth.
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That was straight out of Michael Lombardi's mouth, not McNairs... read again.

When asked why the team did not start Savage over the recently signed Brock Osweiler, Lombardi exclaimed:

“If we go back and really analyze the Brock Osweiler signing, I think Rick Smith went ahead, acted on his own as the general manager … and went ahead and signed him. … I talked to the coaches there and there wasn’t a lot of love [for Osweiler]. My sense of it is, yes you’re right, you can make that statement. But I think the general manager made this [move] more than the coaching staff in a unified decision.”

These are all opinions for now, but in the near future I expect the whole truth to come out about the Brock Osweiler-Bill O’Brien forced marriage of 2017.
 
TexansBull said:
The only thing I worry about getting rid of OB replacing him with the next Ben McAdoo type of coach.
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That is exactly what I'm worried about. In my opinion, most of these complaints all stem from Rick Smith. Bill is just working with what he has. Crappy draft picks after the 2nd round every year and losing Brandon Brooks & Bouye is rearing it's ugly head.
 
JB said:
That was straight out of Michael Lombardi's mouth, not McNairs... read again.

When asked why the team did not start Savage over the recently signed Brock Osweiler, Lombardi exclaimed:

“If we go back and really analyze the Brock Osweiler signing, I think Rick Smith went ahead, acted on his own as the general manager … and went ahead and signed him. … I talked to the coaches there and there wasn’t a lot of love [for Osweiler]. My sense of it is, yes you’re right, you can make that statement. But I think the general manager made this [move] more than the coaching staff in a unified decision.”

These are all opinions for now, but in the near future I expect the whole truth to come out about the Brock Osweiler-Bill O’Brien forced marriage of 2017.
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“We didn’t know Brock well enough,” McNair told the Houston Chronicle. “Coach [Bill O’Brien] didn’t have a chance to get to know him….You can’t talk to them (players on other teams’ rosters) before they become a free agent. You can’t work them out. We didn’t know him that well.”

Sounds like Lombardi's statements have some truth behind it. Where there's smoke, there's fire. There's no way Bill would say, "That's my guy" if he didn't know Brock. It's more than likely those rumors are true about Bill and Rick not getting along after Brock crapped the bed. Bill had enough and finally pulled Rick's 72 million dollar man.
 
bOODRO87 said:
“We didn’t know Brock well enough,” McNair told the Houston Chronicle. “Coach [Bill O’Brien] didn’t have a chance to get to know him….You can’t talk to them (players on other teams’ rosters) before they become a free agent. You can’t work them out. We didn’t know him that well.”

Sounds like Lombardi's statements have some truth behind it. Where there's smoke, there's fire. There's no way Bill would say, "That's my guy" if he didn't know Brock. It's more than likely those rumors are true about Bill and Rick not getting along after Brock crapped the bed. Bill had enough and finally pulled Rick's 72 million dollar man.
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I was commenting on the quote you incorrectly atributed to McNair, not on the worth of Lombardi's conjecture, or your speculation.
 
JB said:
I was commenting on the quote you incorrectly atributed to McNair, not on the worth of Lombardi's conjecture, or your speculation.
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I should have clarified the second paragraph was from Lombardi but that doesn't negate McNair's comments. His comments are not speculation or opinion. I know you want to believe Bill wanted Brock to add more ammo for your dislike of him. It's obvious from your signature.

Rick Smith thought he beat other GMs to the punch for Brock and it back fired tremendously. Do you honestly think Bill would be on board for a QB he didn't know and didn't work out? Bill even worked out Bortles and said no thank you.

I always love a good passive aggressive comment. =)
 
bOODRO87 said:
Here you go. https://torotimes.com/2017/04/05/houston-texans-brock-osweiler-was-never-bill-obriens-guy/

It came straight out of McNair's mouth.
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Like JB said, it was not a McNair quote. He would never let us see that much into his organization.

Now let's look at an article after the Brock signing, which clearly reveals that not only was O'Brien on board with it, but he was also an advocate:

After the Texans' 30-0 loss to Kansas City in the playoffs, O'Brien took off a couple of days before returning to the film room. First, he evaluated each of the Texans. Then, he turned to prospective free agents and watched tape before filing his report with Smith.

When O'Brien finished, Osweiler was at the top of his list of quarterbacks.

"We study all these guys," O'Brien said. "We watch their (regular-season) tape (and) their preseason tape. When you threw the tape on from (last season), it was impressive. He played in some very tough games, some very meaningful games.

"It's not easy to be a starting quarterback in this league. It's one of the most difficult things in sports to do. I think we got the right guy." ~ Source: Osweiler acquisition began in film room, ended with Texans sparing no expense

Bill O'Brien said it right there: "I think we got the right guy.'

But, please continue reading, because it just continues to confirm that O'Brien was right there with Smith in getting Brock:

To make sure they were on the same page, Smith and O'Brien went to the film room and watched hours of tape on the 6-8, 240-pound Osweiler.

"We came out of the film room agreeing that Brock Osweiler was the quarterback to lead us where we want to go," Smith said.

Do you need more quotes from O'Brien's mouth? Because they are not hard to find. This took me about 45 seconds with a Google news search.

Here's another one:

NFL.com: What made Bill O'Brien fall for Brock Osweiler?

The Texans pounced on Osweiler only after an extensive review of every available quarterback, with O'Brien saying the team "spent a lot of time studying a lot of different guys, college guys, pro guys," but felt like "Brock gave us the best chance to win."
 
bOODRO87 said:
I should have clarified the second paragraph was from Lombardi but that doesn't negate McNair's comments. His comments are not speculation or opinion. I know you want to believe Bill wanted Brock to add more ammo for your dislike of him. It's obvious from your signature.

Rick Smith thought he beat other GMs to the punch for Brock and it back fired tremendously. Do you honestly think Bill would be on board for a QB he didn't know and didn't work out? Bill even worked out Bortles and said no thank you.

I always love a good passive aggressive comment. =)
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I don't have a massive dislike for OB, I've been a supporter of his. The sig is because I thought it was funny that he would actually say that in a PC.

I know McNair's comments about not knowing Brock were factual, but everything else is speculation. I have never thought that Bill wanted Brock, he was the top option at the time, and after the Hoyer disaster McNair had already put down the ultimatum that there would be a new QB. Bill didn't choose Osweiler, but he did choose Savage and chose to start him over Watson at the beginning of the year.
 
Double Barrel said:
Like JB said, it was not a McNair quote. He would never let us see that much into his organization.

Now let's look at an article after the Brock signing, which clearly reveals that not only was O'Brien on board with it, but he was also an advocate:

After the Texans' 30-0 loss to Kansas City in the playoffs, O'Brien took off a couple of days before returning to the film room. First, he evaluated each of the Texans. Then, he turned to prospective free agents and watched tape before filing his report with Smith.

When O'Brien finished, Osweiler was at the top of his list of quarterbacks.

"We study all these guys," O'Brien said. "We watch their (regular-season) tape (and) their preseason tape. When you threw the tape on from (last season), it was impressive. He played in some very tough games, some very meaningful games.

"It's not easy to be a starting quarterback in this league. It's one of the most difficult things in sports to do. I think we got the right guy." ~ Source: Osweiler acquisition began in film room, ended with Texans sparing no expense

Bill O'Brien said it right there: "I think we got the right guy.'

But, please continue reading, because it just continues to confirm that O'Brien was right there with Smith in getting Brock:

To make sure they were on the same page, Smith and O'Brien went to the film room and watched hours of tape on the 6-8, 240-pound Osweiler.

"We came out of the film room agreeing that Brock Osweiler was the quarterback to lead us where we want to go," Smith said.

Do you need more quotes from O'Brien's mouth? Because they are not hard to find. This took me about 45 seconds with a Google news search.

Here's another one:

NFL.com: What made Bill O'Brien fall for Brock Osweiler?

The Texans pounced on Osweiler only after an extensive review of every available quarterback, with O'Brien saying the team "spent a lot of time studying a lot of different guys, college guys, pro guys," but felt like "Brock gave us the best chance to win."
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Fair argument. Here's my take and I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

The Texans needed a QB badly to compete with Savage so they took a chance on Brock. O'Brien may have thought he was the right guy for what was available. Honestly, he didn't look too bad in Denver and O'Brien has made Fitz and Hoyer look decent so why not? Brock was rated the #2 Free Agent behind Malik Jackson in 2016 by Sports Illustrated and the 2016 NFL draft was absolutely terrible for QBs where Houston could have picked. There's no way the Rams were giving up Goff and the Eagles traded up to get Wentz. There's zero NFL QBs after those two. Unfortunately, Brock was awful for us and it just didn't work out.

I don't know why you would be mad at O'Brien for that situation. What else was he supposed to do? Hindsight is always 20/20.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Fair argument. Here's my take and I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

The Texans needed a QB badly to compete with Savage so they took a chance on Brock. O'Brien may have thought he was the right guy for what was available. Honestly, he didn't look too bad in Denver and O'Brien has made Fitz and Hoyer look decent so why not? Brock was rated the #2 Free Agent behind Malik Jackson in 2016 by Sports Illustrated and the 2016 NFL draft was absolutely terrible for QBs where Houston could have picked. There's no way the Rams were giving up Goff and the Eagles traded up to get Wentz. There's zero NFL QBs after those two. Unfortunately, Brock was awful for us and it just didn't work out.

I don't know why you would be mad at O'Brien for that situation. What else was he supposed to do? Hindsight is always 20/20.
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what makes you believe he is mad at O'Brien?
 
JB said:
I don't have a massive dislike for OB, I've been a supporter of his. The sig is because I thought it was funny that he would actually say that in a PC.

I know McNair's comments about not knowing Brock were factual, but everything else is speculation. I have never thought that Bill wanted Brock, he was the top option at the time, and after the Hoyer disaster McNair had already put down the ultimatum that there would be a new QB. Bill didn't choose Osweiler, but he did choose Savage and chose to start him over Watson at the beginning of the year.
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I posted this earlier but everyone thought Watson was going to need time to develop. Bill believes it's hard for a rookie QB to start in the NFL and I can't knock him for that. There's a lot of truth behind that. Goff didn't look good last year and look at him now. I think Bill was willing to give Savage a legit chance to win the starting job so he could give Watson time. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. Bill was smart to give Savage a short leash and we only wasted two quarters on him. If we knew Watson was going to be this good then we wouldn't have been able to draft him in the first place. He would have had Andrew Luck hype and been the 1st pick unanimously. Hindsight is always 20/20.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Fair argument. Here's my take and I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

The Texans needed a QB badly to compete with Savage so they took a chance on Brock. O'Brien may have thought he was the right guy for what was available. Honestly, he didn't look too bad in Denver and O'Brien has made Fitz and Hoyer look decent so why not? Brock was rated the #2 Free Agent behind Malik Jackson in 2016 by Sports Illustrated and the 2016 NFL draft was absolutely terrible for QBs where Houston could have picked. There's no way the Rams were giving up Goff and the Eagles traded up to get Wentz. There's zero NFL QBs after those two. Unfortunately, Brock was awful for us and it just didn't work out.

I don't know why you would be mad at O'Brien for that situation. What else was he supposed to do? Hindsight is always 20/20.
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To clarify, I have always liked O'Brien and given him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not mad at him, and I trusted his judgment at the time and was excited as a fan that we got a new FA QB.

At this point, though, we have four seasons of history to analyze and evaluate. So I try to be objective and not cloud my judgment with my own perceptions of the man. I did the same for Kubiak.

There comes a point where you have to step back and just be honest with yourself.

Your scenario is plausible. However, that is a far cry from Rick Smith acting solo. Smith is a not a traditional team-building GM. He is clearly a gopher and money man. I doubt there are many (if any) player acquisitions that he conducts on his own without consulting with the boardroom, unless it's a McNair decision like Ed Reed. These are my observations based on closely following 16 seasons of franchise history.

Kubiak's fingerprints were all over this team when he was HC just like O'Brien's are all over this team while he's HC. And at this point, four seasons and 9 QBs into it, O'Brien's batting record is dismal. 1 out of 9. And while that one is spectacular, it is natural to wonder if he and Smith are capable of putting a good offensive team around Watson.

I won't be upset if McNair keeps him. I won't be upset if he lets him go. At this point I am rather ambivalent about O'Brien and could make a case either way. But I'd be lying if I said I don't have my doubts.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Is this not a Fire O'Brien thread? That's what I took from it but honest mistake on my part if he isn't wanting O'Brien fired.
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It is, but that don't mean that everyone that reads or posts in this thread wants to fire OB. Discussions on the subject matter will happen... on both sides of the issue

edit: Actually it's the 'get your soap here thread', I don't see any of us wearing a Fire O'Brien soap avi
 
Double Barrel said:
To clarify, I have always liked O'Brien and given him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not mad at him, and I trusted his judgment at the time and was excited as a fan that we got a new FA QB.

At this point, though, we have four seasons of history to analyze and evaluate. So I try to be objective and not cloud my judgment with my own perceptions of the man. I did the same for Kubiak.

There comes a point where you have to step back and just be honest with yourself.

Your scenario is plausible. However, that is a far cry from Rick Smith acting solo. Smith is a not a traditional team-building GM. He is clearly a gopher and money man. I doubt there are many (if any) player acquisitions that he conducts on his own without consulting with the boardroom, unless it's a McNair decision like Ed Reed. These are my observations based on closely following 16 seasons of franchise history.

Kubiak's fingerprints were all over this team when he was HC just like O'Brien's are all over this team while he's HC. And at this point, four seasons and 9 QBs into it, O'Brien's batting record is dismal. 1 out of 9. And while that one is spectacular, it is natural to wonder if he and Smith are capable of putting a good offensive team around Watson.

I won't be upset if McNair keeps him. I won't be upset if he lets him go. At this point I am rather ambivalent about O'Brien and could make a case either way. But I'd be lying if I said I don't have my doubts.
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I think your stance is definitely a fair assessment if you think O'Brien controls who Rick picks in the draft and I think many people think that is the scenario as well.

For me, I don't think O'Brien has as much say as you think he does but that's only my opinion. We can agree to disagree and that's completely fine. I would agree Bill most likely has a big part of who they draft in the 1st round and maybe the 2nd round. Those players absolutely have to be on the field. I would think GMs make their money by the mid-to-late round picks and UDFAs. I think Bill talks about what kind of players he wants, the scouting staff does their homework, and Rick tries to land those kind of players.
 
Fair enough. Like I said, these are just my own observations based on closely following 16 seasons of franchise history, as well as reading quotes over the years from Bob & Cal McNair, Rick Smith, Bill O'Brien, Gary Kubiak, Wade Phillips, and even Charlie Casserly.

It is far from a transparent organization, but you can arrive at a composite perspective after years of putting together clues, words, and actions. For instance, the Texans on Hard Knocks revealed a much more collaborative relationship between O'Brien and Smith than most of us previously realized.
 
infantrycak said:
You buy lottery tickets don't you?

Odds are higher on those than any of that stuff happening. 3 lateral moves - zero chance and 2 Jurassic Park clones.

And would someone please drive a stake thru Cowher's heart so we don't have to hear sugar plum dreams of him every friggin' year? For god's sake they wore leather helmets when he last coached.
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That represented my perfect synopsis in turning this thing around. Sure, each guy on that list would be tough to land but the group would be solid nonetheless. LeBeau is still delivering regardless of his age. Polian is younger and still discusses talent in a manner that makes sense.

My biggest concern, RS finally getting approval from McNair to fire O'Brien....then he goes out and hires Lovie Smith. If this scenario happens, where would this rate in your book?
 
I don't want Lovie Smith. Why do you think RS would have particular interest in him?

I don't think a move will be made this off-season but if one is made I strongly suspect he HC will have an offensive background to groom the budding superstar.
 
Rick Smith and David Shaw sitting next to each other during a press conference would be interesting to say the least.

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bOODRO87 said:
Fair argument. Here's my take and I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

The Texans needed a QB badly to compete with Savage so they took a chance on Brock. O'Brien may have thought he was the right guy for what was available. Honestly, he didn't look too bad in Denver and O'Brien has made Fitz and Hoyer look decent so why not? Brock was rated the #2 Free Agent behind Malik Jackson in 2016 by Sports Illustrated and the 2016 NFL draft was absolutely terrible for QBs where Houston could have picked. There's no way the Rams were giving up Goff and the Eagles traded up to get Wentz. There's zero NFL QBs after those two. Unfortunately, Brock was awful for us and it just didn't work out.

I don't know why you would be mad at O'Brien for that situation. What else was he supposed to do? Hindsight is always 20/20.
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This is a more rational and logical argument than going down rabbit holes and making assumptions based on forum and media speculation. The NFL is full of GMs and HCs who do not get along. The GM or HC who makes winning secondary to seeking power, petty arguments or ego trips will be unemployed soon enough.
 
Earl34 said:
This is a more rational and logical argument than going down rabbit holes and making assumptions based on forum and media speculation. The NFL is full of GMs and HCs who do not get along. The GM or HC who makes winning secondary to seeking power, petty arguments or ego trips will be unemployed soon enough.
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....unless, Bob McNair hired both of you.
 
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