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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

IDEXAN said:
...it represented a significant pull back from the Texans being mostly of late being very positive about Clowney.
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The Texans, O'Brien for instance, fully rely on team doctors for these opinions and for that optimism. And Dr CND won't say it, but team doctors do have financial motives for talking to the media about how great Joe Blow famous patient is progressing after me and my masterful scalpeling magically mended him -- call 1-900-$URGERY for your free quote. For a profit-minded surgeon, getting a player back on the field as fast as possible is the key to maximizing profits. Some team physicians rush players back because that is how they are measured... RTP(return to play). Dr James Andrews does this, "advertises" his prowess in getting players back to that first snap.

But for teams and fans, everything that happens after that first snap is what's important. I think over time we will see O'Brien learn that he cannot rely on our current entrenched medical staff and push for new doctors like the Vikings just did.

We at TexansTalk have the advantage of having a top surgeon weigh in on these issues with experienced, science-based truths. And it is always illuminating.
 
Playoffs said:
The Texans, O'Brien for instance, fully rely on team doctors for these opinions and for that optimism. And Dr CND won't say it, but team doctors do have financial motives for talking to the media about how great Joe Blow famous patient is progressing after me and my masterful scalpeling magically mended him -- call 1-900-$URGERY for your free quote. For a profit-minded surgeon, getting a player back on the field as fast as possible is the key to maximizing profits. Some team physicians rush players back because that is how they are measured... RTP(return to play). Dr James Andrews does this, "advertises" his prowess in getting players back to that first snap.

But for teams and fans, everything that happens after that first snap is what's important. I think over time we will see O'Brien learn that he cannot rely on our current entrenched medical staff and push for new doctors like the Vikings just did.

We at TexansTalk have the advantage of having a top surgeon weigh in on these issues with experienced, science-based truths. And it is always illuminating.
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So may I conclude that IYO the decision to PUP Clowney at this time is not a particularly meaningful event, one way or the other in his rehab/recovery on the path to hopefully resuming his NFL career back on the field ?
 
IDEXAN said:
So may I conclude that IYO the decision to PUP Clowney at this time is not a particularly meaningful event, one way or the other in his rehab/recovery on the path to hopefully resuming his NFL career back on the field ?
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I defer to the good doctor, who doesn't necessarily see it as a positive.

You may conclude that my position on blood flow restriction training is it hasn't been shown to positively impact the prognosis after return-to-play, which is common sense because it cannot and doesn't affect these underlying issues.
 
Why are people suggesting he stay on the PUP list a lengthy amount of time or go on IR for the entire year? That's not something I've really seen as a viable option at this point. He's on the PUP list for now but should be ready for full football activities relatively soon. John McClain told me this is mostly just as a precaution that allows him to miss the first six regular-season games if needed (if more setbacks), but he'd be surprised not to see Clowney on the field the final few weeks of August. He may even participate in a preseason game.

This is on par with Bill O'Brien's comments that he wouldn't be surprised to see Jadeveon Clowney playing versus the Chiefs Week 1 but he wasn't sure in what capacity. He may not start or see a lot of snaps but just seeing him back on the field and progressing, hopefully staying healthy, is a big plus for the 2015 Texans season.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Why are people suggesting he stay on the PUP list a lengthy amount of time or go on IR for the entire year? That's not something I've really seen as a viable option at this point. He's on the PUP list for now but should be ready for full football activities relatively soon. John McClain told me this is mostly just as a precaution that allows him to miss the first six regular-season games if needed (if more setbacks), but he'd be surprised not to see Clowney on the field the final few weeks of August. He may even participate in a preseason game.
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This has nothing to do with the regular season. All it really does is tell the media not to expect Jd out there taking snaps with the first or second team. He's rehabing.

Bulls on Parade said:
This is on par with Bill O'Brien's comments that he wouldn't be surprised to see Jadeveon Clowney playing versus the Chiefs Week 1 but he wasn't sure in what capacity. He may not start or see a lot of snaps but just seeing him back on the field and progressing, hopefully staying healthy, is a big plus for the 2015 Texans season.
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Again, the original estimates were for 9 months from December 8. But it isn't an exact science so really all we know is that his knee "should" be as good as it's going to get somewhere around September 8.

They have not experienced any set-backs in the recovery process, so they are optimistic. They'll increase his work load, the stress his knee will see & monitor for pain, soreness, & swelling. The absence of which will determine when Clowney will be able to join the team for practice. He won't play against KC if he hasn't practiced with the team.

IMO, the Texans aren't "rushing" Jd back unless you see them talking about putting him in pads before Sept 8. & I don't think the Texans should "sit him to be safe" if everything tells them he's good to go. There's plenty of time before the season starts to get him into football shape.
 
I understand what you guys are saying but a few of my friends keep saying, "I hope Clowney just goes on IR for the entire 2015 season." Or them even saying he should just come back strong in 2016 and fix his bone spurs while he's resting for a full year. We didn't draft this guy number one overall to practically miss two straight seasons. I expect to see him on the field and contributing Week 1 against the Chiefs. And hopefully he plays in all 16 games in 2015 and has a positive impact.

One year, regardless of pain, should be a good mental hurdle that he overcomes leading to an even better 2016 season. He has to play to make any progress. Even if he plays 10 to 15 snaps a game and is only used in third-down pass rushing situations. I'll take that. My goal for Jadeveon Clowney in 2015 is to play in all 16 games. And then perhaps, he becomes an All Pro in 2016 in his third year. He won't just become a beast in year three without playing in year two.
 
If you approach all this from the perspective of never expecting Clowney to contribute anything as a Texan, which is where I'm at right now, the PUP thing is not a big deal and anything he can give us going forward is a bonus at this point.

Low expectations, man.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I understand what you guys are saying but a few of my friends keep saying, "I hope Clowney just goes on IR for the entire 2015 season." Or them even saying he should just come back strong in 2016 and fix his bone spurs while he's resting for a full year. We didn't draft this guy number one overall to practically miss two straight seasons. I expect to see him on the field and contributing Week 1 against the Chiefs. And hopefully he plays in all 16 games in 2015 and has a positive impact.

One year, regardless of pain, should be a good mental hurdle that he overcomes leading to an even better 2016 season. He has to play to make any progress. Even if he plays 10 to 15 snaps a game and is only used in third-down pass rushing situations. I'll take that. My goal for Jadeveon Clowney in 2015 is to play in all 16 games. And then perhaps, he becomes an All Pro in 2016 in his third year. He won't just become a beast in year three without playing in year two.
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He sure can't play football, what we drafted him for, if he only has one leg. Can't have one without the other. If he's healthy enough to play, he plays. If not, he sits. Expecting anything major from someone coming back from the surgeries he's had is setting yourself up for disappointment. Gotta let it play out and see what happens.
 
Mollywhopper said:
What does Clowney being on the PUP list now have to do with him being active week 1, other than squeezing an extra guy into camp to evaluate?
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Bulls on Parade said:
I understand what you guys are saying but a few of my friends keep saying, "I hope Clowney just goes on IR for the entire 2015 season." Or them even saying he should just come back strong in 2016 and fix his bone spurs while he's resting for a full year. We didn't draft this guy number one overall to practically miss two straight seasons. I expect to see him on the field and contributing Week 1 against the Chiefs. And hopefully he plays in all 16 games in 2015 and has a positive impact.

One year, regardless of pain, should be a good mental hurdle that he overcomes leading to an even better 2016 season. He has to play to make any progress. Even if he plays 10 to 15 snaps a game and is only used in third-down pass rushing situations. I'll take that. My goal for Jadeveon Clowney in 2015 is to play in all 16 games. And then perhaps, he becomes an All Pro in 2016 in his third year. He won't just become a beast in year three without playing in year two.
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Sometimes we forget the difference between playing with pain and playing with an injury that could be made much worse by lack of rehab before returning. Many have never ventured out of a mindset that injury is nothing more than dealing with pain. That is true only in some cases. Those are the ones you remember. But some injuries go beyond pain and into outright inability to do the job. I suspect the various camps will split in their opinion of Clowney's return early this season.
 
Marshall said:
Sometimes we forget the difference between playing with pain and playing with an injury that could be made much worse by lack of rehab before returning. Many have never ventured out of a mindset that injury is nothing more than dealing with pain. That is true only in some cases. Those are the ones you remember. But some injuries go beyond pain and into outright inability to do the job. I suspect the various camps will split in their opinion of Clowney's return early this season.
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IMHO, the difference between playing through the pain or not is determined by whether or not playing can make the injury worse or not. As CnD has pointed out on many occasions, though, compensation for one injury can lead to injuries in other areas (backs and hamstrings for instance). With the NFL as competitive as it is, players probably aren't completely honest with team physicians either, leading to nagging injuries. It's hard to make the roster from the trainers table, but that's not something JdC has to worry about.
 
I'm hoping Clowney can at least have a season like Cushing last year and then come into 2016 with more confidence even if never 100 %
 
badboy said:
I'm hoping Clowney can at least have a season like Cushing last year and then come into 2016 with more confidence even if never 100 %
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I'm thinking this will almost certainly be the case, and in this case, as with Cushing, there will also be a lot of negativity on this board over his lack of productivity and with comments that he's a bust. Patience is called for. I agree 2016 will be the year before we know how far back he will be able to come.
 
Number19 said:
I'm thinking this will almost certainly be the case, and in this case, as with Cushing, there will also be a lot of negativity on this board over his lack of productivity and with comments that he's a bust. Patience is called for. I agree 2016 will be the year before we know how far back he will be able to come.
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I think the coaching staff did a good job of managing Cushing's snaps & his production in relation to those snaps was fine. Not ProBowl beast fine, but fine. I'm expecting them to manage Clowney the same way.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think the coaching staff did a good job of managing Cushing's snaps & his production in relation to those snaps was fine. Not ProBowl beast fine, but fine. I'm expecting them to manage Clowney the same way.
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I agree. Cush was looking a lot closer to his old self towards the end of the season. I'm sure a lot of that had to do with how the coaches managed his snaps.
Number19 said:
I'm thinking this will almost certainly be the case, and in this case, as with Cushing, there will also be a lot of negativity on this board over his lack of productivity and with comments that he's a bust. Patience is called for. I agree 2016 will be the year before we know how far back he will be able to come.
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I dunno. I think most on here understand the nature of the surgery and have tempered their expectations accordingly. I, for one, would be perfectly happy if OB PUP'd him or just sat him out for all of 2015. I refuse to call him a bust because of injury, though. I'll just say that it's unfortunate for both JDC and the Texans. If I were the Texans, I'd be taking a long, hard look at changing medical staff. CnD should have an office with an adjoining door to RS' office.
 
DocBar said:
I refuse to call him a bust because of injury
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I started a thread awhile back which upset some people because I wondered how an injury like the one that has sidelined Clowney was that much different than Quessenbarry's lymphoma in terms of a threat to a football career ? And I certainly wasn't comparing a mans fight with cancer vs an injury suffered by another man in any way other than about the potential of a pro football career being terminated. I still say its no more logical to call Clowney a bust if his career is ended because of this injury and unsuccessful surgery than it is to call Q a bust if he can't be an active contributing NFL football player because of a disease.
Truth is there's probably some or maybe a lot, or maybe most who would give David Q a better chance of eventually having a genuine NFL career than they would Clowney ?
 
To me a bust is a highly drafted player that doesn't work out because he sucks at football. Has nothing to do with injury. In the case of injury it's a wasted pick.
 
You put 100 people in a room, you're going to see 100 different descriptions of the word "bust".

For some, if the player doesn't meet up to their own personal expectations, for whatever reason, it automatically means "bust".

For others, like me, the "bust" label applies only when the player is healthy, is on the field, but can't make the impact that is expected of him, like Travis Johnson. For the players like Clowney, it's more bad luck than bust. Even the term "wasted pick" has the implication of looking for someone to blame.

But for those didn't want to draft him to begin with, the bust label is convenient.
 
PapaL said:
To me a bust is a highly drafted player that doesn't work out because he sucks at football. Has nothing to do with injury. In the case of injury it's a wasted pick.
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Some might put the bust label on the organization...

If you drafted a guy who walked in already broken, and your doctors didn't warn you off the player.
 
>>> Jadeveon Clowney may still be on the Physically Unable to Perform list — for now — but he stayed plenty active on the first day of camp. He did agility drills and some endurance workouts on a far field early in practice before staying involved in the huddles and play calls in the practice’s latter half. He also found time to take a picture with strength and conditioning coach Craig Fitzgerald’s kid, punted a football and clowned around with teammates between drills.​

DSC_0022.JPG

--texansbullpen.com​

Sad Clowney wants permission to play on the playground, please. :truck:
 
thunderkyss said:
Pretty cool that even amidst all those big men..... 75 looks like a big man.
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Big is big, but he's great because he's also smart, quick and strong. I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing how our D gels. I expect a few bumps, but this could be epic.
 
From HT.Com:

"I would say the goal is to get him back on the field on August 17th and then go from there," head coach Bill O'Brien said after Sunday morning's practice."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From HT.Com:

"I would say the goal is to get him back on the field on August 17th and then go from there," head coach Bill O'Brien said after Sunday morning's practice."
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Have you ever been so skeptical about something, it just fills you with a sense of dread?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From HT.Com:

"I would say the goal is to get him back on the field on August 17th and then go from there," head coach Bill O'Brien said after Sunday morning's practice."
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I'd say that was an optimistic goal. Just what I'd expect from a Coach. Now it remains to be seen how well grounded and realistic he makes his goals when it comes to injuries. I suspect the optimum performance from Clowney has as much to do with art as science. What can he do to play that is worth the risk of further injury? I suspect only the rear view mirror will offer any solid information, and that will be debated. Risk reward will change over time as well.

Some things just can't be forecast with enough accuracy, even with excellent general information. There's just too much variation from individual to individual and injury to injury.

But I yield specifics to those who are more knowledgeable. I will limit my generalizations to slightly educated observation of past actions.
 
I
Marshall said:
I'd say that was an optimistic goal. Just what I'd expect from a Coach. Now it remains to be seen how well grounded and realistic he makes his goals when it comes to injuries. I suspect the optimum performance from Clowney has as much to do with art as science. What can he do to play that is worth the risk of further injury? I suspect only the rear view mirror will offer any solid information, and that will be debated. Risk reward will change over time as well.

Some things just can't be forecast with enough accuracy, even with excellent general information. There's just too much variation from individual to individual and injury to injury.

But I yield specifics to those who are more knowledgeable. I will limit my generalizations to slightly educated observation of past actions.
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still hope the Texans PUP him for the regular season. Let that new cartilage harden
 
DocBar said:
I

still hope the Texans PUP him for the regular season. Let that new cartilage harden
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I don't know, but I wouldn't be greatly displeased if he were PUP. But I would like to see his contract extended at a bargain so he doesn't get one season of play and then leave.

PS - Not just for Clowney, but also Q. Seems like it would just be right for those who can't play to extend a season at the lowest year's base salary for each year they do not play.
 
Marshall said:
I don't know, but I wouldn't be greatly displeased if he were PUP. But I would like to see his contract extended at a bargain so he doesn't get one season of play and then leave.

PS - Not just for Clowney, but also Q. Seems like it would just be right for those who can't play to extend a season at the lowest year's base salary for each year they do not play.
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Understand your thought but he is under contract thru 2017 so if PUP 2015, he has two additional years not one.
 
badboy said:
Understand your thought but he is under contract thru 2017 so if PUP 2015, he has two additional years not one.
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Don't forget the fifth year option on first round picks & we could still use the franchise tag after that, if warranted.
 
thunderkyss said:
Don't forget the fifth year option on first round picks & we could still use the franchise tag after that, if warranted.
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Many players with this injury often don't see their 2nd contract and no one here is accepting of the fact that Spurrier warned in his very own coach speak that Clowney has a lazy streak and that was a big part of his very weak 3 sack season at South Carolina. What the Texans are guilty of is Bob McNair falling in love with a player from his alma mater.
 
Texian said:
Many players with this injury often don't see their 2nd contract and no one here is accepting of the fact that Spurrier warned in his very own coach speak that Clowney has a lazy streak and that was a big part of his very weak 3 sack season at South Carolina. What the Texans are guilty of is Bob McNair falling in love with a player from his alma mater.
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Nothing we've seen so far says lazy.

Forget about Spurrier & rumors & whatever.... we've got first hand account of what he's doing now. Let's base our opinion on what we see & hear now.
 
thunderkyss said:
Nothing we've seen so far says lazy.

Forget about Spurrier & rumors & whatever.... we've got first hand account of what he's doing now. Let's base our opinion on what we see & hear now.
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That's the problem, too many people just wanted to pretend that they didn't hear what Spurrier was telling them or just ignored those comments altogether.
 
thunderkyss said:
Nothing we've seen so far says lazy.

Forget about Spurrier & rumors & whatever.... we've got first hand account of what he's doing now. Let's base our opinion on what we see & hear now.
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Keep in mind who you're talking to; he hates Clowney.
 
Texian said:
That's the problem, too many people just wanted to pretend that they didn't hear what Spurrier was telling them or just ignored those comments altogether.
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How's that part of the problem?


We can compare what Spurrier had to say bs what we see & it's clear Spurier's comments were taken out of context
 
Dr. David Chao

Monday Morning MD: Articular cartilage is the Holy Grail
Articular cartilage is also Jadeveon Clowney’s problem. He had an initial knee scope to treat the meniscus tear and then had to have a subsequent microfracture procedure. By definition, the need to regrow cartilage indicates a down to bone lesion. I certainly hope he goes on to a productive career, but a full-thickness cartilage defect in a 22 year-old is ominous. The good news is Clowney is expected for the start of training camp.

Despite being treated by his team physician who is one of the best in the country, the question is how long his new surface will last. The knee heals with fibrocartilage that fills in the defect and is never as strong as the original hyaline cartilage. I hope I am wrong, but even if Clowney lives up to his number one overall pick promise this year, he would have to beat the odds to make it to a second contract.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/monday-morning-md-articular-cartilage-is-the-holy-grail/
 
badboy said:
I have seen no laziness or lack of motor on part of Clowney in his limited time on field.
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Yep, not lazy... every report is worked hard, well-liked by his teammates and coaches... just injured.

Texian said:
Dr. David Chao

...the need to regrow cartilage...
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Already been posted here.

You can't regrow articular cartilage in the body. Chao implies otherwise. You can grow it in a petri dish.
14264811Th_50.jpg


Texian said:
Dr. David Chao

...a full-thickness cartilage defect in a 22 year-old is ominous.
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True. JD was "broken" before he arrived here... arthritic knees, among other things.
 
Texian said:
That's the problem, too many people just wanted to pretend that they didn't hear what Spurrier was telling them or just ignored those comments altogether.
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Like Spurrier didn't have a motive to scare off the NFL to get another year from Clowney. Yeah, we should take him at his insinuation. There are no pure motives here.
 
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