The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Marshall, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    PM me links to any CND posts you want in this thread and I'll be glad to quote them for ya'. Here are some from that thread:

     
  2. Mr teX

    Mr teX Hall of Fame

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    Don't understand the hatred of the Texans team docs around here. I mean it'd be 1 thing if the players themselves were repeatedly saying they weren't ready to come back & the training staff pushed them out there anyway, but that's not the case. The players want to play and ultimately the docs are just relying on the players and how they say they feel. Sure there's somewhat of a timetable out there of when its safest for these guys to return, but it is just a timetable and different for everyone. Some guys come back faster and excel (Adrian Peterson, Terrell Suggs) and some guys never quite return to form, (Penny Hardaway,Greg Oden). In that regard, all the docs can do is take the player at their word and hope for the best.
     
  3. dalemurphy

    dalemurphy Hall of Fame

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    The best example... Most obvious example of their incompetence was their handling of Ben Tate's broken ankle coming off the field in his rookie year. First, they attempted to have him walk off the field. Then, after loading him on the cart, they administered significant downward pressure on his knee and lower leg with his leg extended in a way that focused the force directly on that ankle.
     
  4. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    I think the team doctors take the public blame for the feeling of deception and misdirection that is perpetuated by the Texans front office.
     
  5. paycheck71

    paycheck71 Hall of Fame

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    My view on this is kind of two-fold. The Texans doctors work for the Texans and, intentionally or not, will tell the Texans what the FO wants to hear to a certain degree.

    At the same time, what usually happens when you go to a doctor and get a diagnosis? He'll give you options and basically make it up to you to decide what to do. If you go and get a second/third opinion, it will probably reinforce one or two of those options. Eventually you'll pick the one you're most comfortable with. In the ultra competitive world of pro sports, where tomorrow is not guaranteed for 90% of the players, they will most likely be willing to push it and risk greater injury.
     
  6. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    Hater
     
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  7. Playoffs

    Playoffs Subscribed Contributor

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    Having had very many in depth discussions with Dr CND, who is highly qualified to not only comment but also sort through the many bullisht studies to ferret out the qualified ones that apply to the NFL population/procedure in question, I'll take the other side.

    First, there's no hatred. Period. Just a question of how a team physician attempts to maximize player minutes versus maximizing quality player minutes. Easiest recent example was 2013 Derek Newton. Had a knee procedure in offseason, was brought back too soon as noted by Dr CND, and was awful for most of the season. And they quietly had to re-do same procedure after the 2013 season. The Newton we saw in 2014 was a much different player. Asked, he shakes his head with a 'no comment'.

    Coaches want players back a.s.a.p. Players wants to comply, even through pain. S.O.P. in NFL. Only the physician is responsible for qualified, independent intervention to hold a player back to maximize quality player minutes vs just getting him back on the field quickly...player minutes. Would it have been worth it for Newt to miss 3 extra weeks and return to play at 2014 levels?

    Dr CND has documented many instances of this what I call wrong-headed process with other Texans right here on TTalk. It's the tail wagging the dog. And it costs us, in my opinion.

    Again, no hatred. I just want my team to make decisions that maximize their chances to win.
     
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  8. Mr teX

    Mr teX Hall of Fame

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    This isn't trying to take anything away from CND, his comments have been spot on, but these decisions aren't being made in a vacuum. The player has just as much if not more responsibility for how diligent he is with his rehab, how honest he is with docs about pain and everything else. Doctors get paid to practice medicine..& practice they do.

    Supposedly players can't lose their positions due to an injuryin the NFL....but the players know that's a load crap so they push it to get back out there. So i wouldn't so much call it "complying" with coaches as much but rather these guys realizing they've got a small window to get out there, play and potentially make enough money to set themselves up for life before its all over. The last thing any of them want is to be told to sit out longer than they feel they have to or be labeled injury prone or soft....that kind of stuff comes back to bite them during contract negotiation time. Furthermore, having them sit out the expected time they probably should isn't a guarantee that they won't have lingering issues that require sitting out more time and/or more surgery after they do come back. Again, every player is different. It'd be nice if these decisions were made like you want , but it isn't up to the docs, its up to the player since its his career and to a greater extent the HC since he is the one who ultimately makes the decision on whether or not the player practices/plays. All the docs can do is give the player and the HC their professional opinion. And since we don't know whether or not this is actually happening, or whether the HC/player is actually listening to the doc, they can't really be blamed.
     
  9. Playoffs

    Playoffs Subscribed Contributor

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    Your assumption is incorrect.

    Dr CND has actual knowledge of how it was, how it is done in the Texans org, and how it should be done. He is an expert.

    You're creating assumptions to fit your narrative.
     
  10. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    Clowney in minimal 2014 exposure looked really good before injury with little prep time. My 2 cents is to hold him out until game one and then pick his spots to play for first few games .
     


  11. Marshall

    Marshall Not pretty, but ALIVE!

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    If it were me and thank God it is not, I'd plan on keeping him on the roster, but inactive on game day until after the Bye. That way you preserve the IR/Return slot for the unexpected need as Clowney uses the first half of the season as his training camp. Only then would I work him into games as the opportunity presents itself. But I'm a cautious type by nature.
     
  12. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    lol! Takes one to know one. :neener:

    I think Playoffs description of things is most likely what is happening inside team facilities as team doctors try to appease the concerns of their patients, as well as those of their employer.
     
  13. infantrycak

    infantrycak Admin & Mod Staff Member

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    Not really directed to you...

    If it was you (i.e. as someone on the team), you'd have a ton more information. That includes CnD and he'd readily admit that. Folks are drawing a ton of bright lines which really make no sense. One thing which should have been learned from years of CnD posts (and common sense) is these things are always in ranges of time dependent on very personal circumstances.

    There are a few instances where we have enough detail to say that was likely bad judgment - e.g. Newton. Most of the rest is just disappointment turning to anger which has to find a target. People have a very hard time saying "**** happens."

    I think what it shows is (a) fan cynicism/myopia and (b) selective memory/attention. Every bad result is a mistake. Good results are ignored. No comparison is made to other teams to see if the Texans are doing better or worse.
     
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  14. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    Yep. And I'd bet that it is the same with 31 other teams, but we are not in those cities to be up-to-date on the day-to-day press releases and operations of those NFL franchises. I would not doubt that fans in those cities often feel the same way about their front offices as many Texans feel about Kirby.

    My own attitude is fairly ambivalent. I do not expect truth from the front office. They are often playing a game of hide and seek, not necessarily with fans, but with other teams. And at the end of the day, I'm not a doctor and I have absolutely no qualification to make such judgement calls. Which is why so many of us appreciate CloakNNNdagger's perspectives. It gives us a little insight where normally there is none.
     
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  15. Number19

    Number19 Hall of Fame

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    If the April 3rd news release is accurate and the end of training camp is the target date for Clowney's return to the football field, what this means to me is that he won't be cleared for full contact until after the final pre-season game. But I would think it also means he might be cleared for many training camp activities short of full contact. Once cleared for full contact, I would give him a minimum of a full week of practice to see if there are any negative consequences. Maybe two weeks. So I would wait until the 2nd or 3rd game, if there is no pain or swelling resulting from practice, before easing him into games, with spot action. Then after the open date, cautiously increase his work load.
     
  16. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Nobody does sports as a metaphor for war quite like the NFL, from the field to the front office. McNair, Smith, and O'Brien are our government and military general, 31 other cities are our warring nations, Playoffs and CND are our media and technical advisor, we constantly want more and feel entitled to information while the leaders want to withhold info in the name of security. Meanwhile we argue and debate over policy and tactics ad infinitum.

    Ain't war (football) hell (heaven)?
     
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  17. Quick II Draw

    Quick II Draw Veteran

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    ERMAHGERD

    JERDERVEYERN CLERNEY!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  18. thetexanator

    thetexanator Hall of Fame

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    got a joke for you guys.

    breaking news breaking news. my sources have confirmed jd clowney out the rest of ota's with bruised labia. more info to come.
     
  19. thetexanator

    thetexanator Hall of Fame

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    everytime i see this video i get super hyped. jd tackled him so hard his chin strap broke and the helmet went flying. all that strength and speed. basically just imagine having lawrence taylor playing with jjwatt.
     
  20. Marshall

    Marshall Not pretty, but ALIVE!

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    ?????????? How do you expect anyone to get in football shape in two weeks?

    But the timing is the only place we're disagreeing. You're at two weeks and I'm at two months before getting him in a game at all.
     

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