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Not quite applicable. Even driving the automatic, you are driving. So, yeah, you learn the rules of the road and how to watch out for other drivers.Let me see if this analogy makes sense.
You learn driving with a small 4-door automatic.
Later on, you was given a stick-shift, or a 2-door, or a station wagon, or a van, whatever.
Didn't you learn the rules of the road?
Didn't you learn certain skills about handling a car?
Not quite applicable. Even driving the automatic, you are driving. So, yeah, you learn the rules of the road and how to watch out for other drivers.
Osweiler's situation was more akin to him watching from the back seat the whole time until he was given the keys (and very specific instructions (you know Kubiak) on what route to take) when the regular driver called in sick for a few days.
Now he's in a new situation, driving under new rules.
It's like he studied Driver's Ed (and got to practice a bit) in America
and now he has to drive in England.
Yeah, it's still a car and it's still driving. But it ain't the way he learned it.
So it takes getting used; i.e., on-the-road, practice to in order to be proficient at it.
Make sense?
Generally i agree. However, tell it to the carr fan base who blamed an ol. 3 years later it was still the ol's fault and rarely Carr's. the ol might've helped him become what he ultimately was but he had control over it as well.
10 yrs (?) later it's oz's turn and again lots of folks are blaming the ol. There's some truth to that and the book isn't closed yet. Oz can turn it around but im not willing to only blame the ol. He needs to improve a LOT in order to succeed consistently.
I guess we're all seeing the same results but some are placing more blame on the qb or the ol. Truth is, oz will never be surrounded by10 probowlers. At some point imo, he has to carry the load. 16 games sounds about right to me.
Yes I can go along with that if they are surrounded by good coaching and have an atleast decent offensive line and atleast two dependable receivers and an atleast average running game to compliment them.General rule of thumb for NFL QBs, after 20 starts you pretty much know what you got.
I agree with this. There a are those rare special Qb's that overcome the poor variables outside of what they can bring to the table.Generally i agree. However, tell it to the carr fan base who blamed an ol. 3 years later it was still the ol's fault and rarely Carr's. the ol might've helped him become what he ultimately was but he had control over it as well.
10 yrs (?) later it's oz's turn and again lots of folks are blaming the ol. There's some truth to that and the book isn't closed yet. Oz can turn it around but im not willing to only blame the ol. He needs to improve a LOT in order to succeed consistently.
I guess we're all seeing the same results but some are placing more blame on the qb or the ol. Truth is, oz will never be surrounded by10 probowlers. At some point imo, he has to carry the load. 16 games sounds about right to me.
This was well thought out and deserves a lot more likes but many on this board have written Brock Osweiler off and no explanation is enough.Not quite applicable. Even driving the automatic, you are driving. So, yeah, you learn the rules of the road and how to watch out for other drivers.
Osweiler's situation was more akin to him watching from the back seat the whole time until he was given the keys (and very specific instructions (you know Kubiak) on what route to take) when the regular driver called in sick for a few days.
Now he's in a new situation, driving under new rules.
It's like he studied Driver's Ed (and got to practice a bit) in America
and now he has to drive in England.
Yeah, it's still a car and it's still driving. But it ain't the way he learned it.
So it takes getting used; i.e., on-the-road, practice to in order to be proficient at it.
Make sense?
Not quite applicable. Even driving the automatic, you are driving. So, yeah, you learn the rules of the road and how to watch out for other drivers.
Osweiler's situation was more akin to him watching from the back seat the whole time until he was given the keys (and very specific instructions (you know Kubiak) on what route to take) when the regular driver called in sick for a few days.
Now he's in a new situation, driving under new rules.
It's like he studied Driver's Ed (and got to practice a bit) in America
and now he has to drive in England.
Yeah, it's still a car and it's still driving. But it ain't the way he learned it.
So it takes getting used; i.e., on-the-road, practice to in order to be proficient at it.
Make sense?
Let's hope for all our sakes he gets a little better each week
No need....Can we at least take the MVP out of the title of this thread, it is embarrassing.
I haven't been to England, so I don't know.Not quite applicable. Even driving the automatic, you are driving. So, yeah, you learn the rules of the road and how to watch out for other drivers.
Osweiler's situation was more akin to him watching from the back seat the whole time until he was given the keys (and very specific instructions (you know Kubiak) on what route to take) when the regular driver called in sick for a few days.
Now he's in a new situation, driving under new rules.
It's like he studied Driver's Ed (and got to practice a bit) in America
and now he has to drive in England.
Yeah, it's still a car and it's still driving. But it ain't the way he learned it.
So it takes getting used; i.e., on-the-road, practice to in order to be proficient at it.
Make sense?
The reason Osweiler looks good in the first half of the Titans game was because he had all day to throw.If you ever listen to the Greg and ND show, they've both said numerous times that you can't replicate game situations in practice, the games are so much faster. If I'm not mistaken Brock's has had 10 starts, so in terms of game development he's still a rookie. I'm discouraged by what I've seen in the NE and Minn games but but he looked phenomenal in the first half of the Titans game. I'm hoping as the season progresses we see more of the Titan Brock and less of the NE Minn Brock. Those are both are both good defenses and, in Minnesota's case, one of the best. Good Ds can make even good QBs look bad - see the last Super Bowl as an example of that.
Let's hope for all our sakes he gets a little better each week
Now this thread can really be renamed with the original title I created.No need....
For the purposes of this thread
MVP = Most Villified Player
We have one every year. It's a rotating "honor".
when I first joined the board it was HWSNBN
then Petey Faggins took a turn
Kareem Jackson was MVP for a bit but then he got better
Then it was Clowney, and he got healthy and better
Now it's Osweiler's (and his huge contract) turn to wear the Texans' MVP moniker
No need....
For the purposes of this thread
MVP = Most Villified Player
We have one every year. It's a rotating "honor".
when I first joined the board it was HWSNBN
then Petey Faggins took a turn
Kareem Jackson was MVP for a bit but then he got better
Then it was Clowney, and he got healthy and better
Now it's Osweiler's (and his huge contract) turn to wear the Texans' MVP moniker
Where's that "Bill O'Brien... Genius" thread?
You know how when training for a race some people put on ankle weights? How baseball players put extra weight on their bats? How if you stand in a door way & push on the jamb with all your might, your arms seem to float when you exit the doorway.
I think that's what's going on here. O'b has our offense playing with basic concepts.
As far as David Carr, I am sorry but he was done as soon as he first took a snap for this team. I will never place blame of any kind on David Carr.
Here is my take on Osweiler:
I'm hoping to see Weeden get some playing time. I want to see some deep balls. Weeden has the arm & the Texans have the offensive weapons.
Here is a sample of Weeden throwing the ball over 60 yards in the air on target.
Wasn't weeden terrible in Dallas behind a good oline? I think our oline is garbage and I doubt weeden would or could do any better. At this point I'm close to giving up hope on Brock being really good and I'm just hoping for the rest of the season he isn't really bad. I'd rather see savage ahead of weeden if that's what it came to.I'm all seriousness, yet I doubt it will happen, and even though a Texans' quarterback cannot trust his offensive line, I have little doubt that Josh Weeden would come in and do better than Brock...and Savage, too.
I'm not saying that Brock isn't the answer, but Weeden is wasting away here. He finally put it together after he left Cleveland.
Wasn't weeden terrible in Dallas behind a good oline? I think our oline is garbage and I doubt weeden would or could do any better. At this point I'm close to giving up hope on Brock being really good and I'm just hoping for the rest of the season he isn't really bad. I'd rather see savage ahead of weeden if that's what it came to.
The Texans right now are outwitting themselves on the offensive side of the ball.
So, I ask myself, why was Weeden able to come in and really perform in this complex offense, on very short notice, while Brock appears like he's barely keeping it together out there, with a full off-season and all the attention as the starter.
Weeden didn't play this offense. They hucked 3/4 of the 'system' out the window and played common concept football.
You must have missed this part:
I'm not saying that Weeden is the answer, not am I saying that Brock isn't. But with an offensive line like we have, I think it's time to dumb this game down and just play ball, like they did when Weeden took over.
8-8 , you mean?Brock Osweiler is 3-0 at home as the Texans starter.
What witt?No, Weeden wasn't terrible (I can't believe I said Josh Weeden and not Brandon).
With the Cowboys he was always over 60% with his throws, with QBRs of 149.7, 87.8, 105.6, and 66.9, with a 1:1 TD to INT ratio, until he got to Houston, whereupon he had very little time to work with the offense and he had QBRs of 95.8 and 116.7, with 3 TDs and 0 picks.
With Brock we don't have a QBR above 89, with a 6 TDs and 7 INTs, and only 2 games with 60% passing.
So, I ask myself, why was Weeden able to come in and really perform in this complex offense, on very short notice, while Brock appears like he's barely keeping it together out there, with a full off-season and all the attention as the starter.
I'm not saying that Weeden is the answer, not am I saying that Brock isn't. But with an offensive line like we have, I think it's time to dumb this game down and just play ball, like they did when Weeden took over.
The Texans right now are outwitting themselves on the offensive side of the ball.
What witt?No, Weeden wasn't terrible (I can't believe I said Josh Weeden and not Brandon).
With the Cowboys he was always over 60% with his throws, with QBRs of 149.7, 87.8, 105.6, and 66.9, with a 1:1 TD to INT ratio, until he got to Houston, whereupon he had very little time to work with the offense and he had QBRs of 95.8 and 116.7, with 3 TDs and 0 picks.
With Brock we don't have a QBR above 89, with a 6 TDs and 7 INTs, and only 2 games with 60% passing.
So, I ask myself, why was Weeden able to come in and really perform in this complex offense, on very short notice, while Brock appears like he's barely keeping it together out there, with a full off-season and all the attention as the starter.
I'm not saying that Weeden is the answer, not am I saying that Brock isn't. But with an offensive line like we have, I think it's time to dumb this game down and just play ball, like they did when Weeden took over.
The Texans right now are outwitting themselves on the offensive side of the ball.
It should be the other way around.Not quite applicable. Even driving the automatic, you are driving. So, yeah, you learn the rules of the road and how to watch out for other drivers.
Osweiler's situation was more akin to him watching from the back seat the whole time until he was given the keys (and very specific instructions (you know Kubiak) on what route to take) when the regular driver called in sick for a few days.
Now he's in a new situation, driving under new rules.
It's like he studied Driver's Ed (and got to practice a bit) in America
and now he has to drive in England.
Yeah, it's still a car and it's still driving. But it ain't the way he learned it.
So it takes getting used; i.e., on-the-road, practice to in order to be proficient at it.
Make sense?
No, the Pats were in a 53 zone.Good post. & I agree with most of it. My only nit to pick is that I really don't think Brock had a tendency to stare down receivers.
I know it might look like he's not turning his head & I could be wrong. But I think of it like when I'm driving. I can look a hundred yards ahead of me, a hundred yards ahead to the right, a hundred yards ahead to the left, & check my rear view without moving my head.
I'm not locked on to the light ahead, but I'm well aware of the state it's in. I'm scanning the whole time, looking for cars coming into my lane, stopping abruptly in front of me, affecting my escape routes, getting into my safe zone...
Same thing with Brock, at least I hope it is. I like to think he's watching the defense, not his receivers. A lot of routes are determined by how the defense plays the combination after routes on the field.
like that INT in the Patriots game. I think he was reading the corner, the safety, & the LB. the corner dropped to an outside trail technique. the safety stayed on top, inside the route. the lb dropped to a shallow zone.
everything was working to exactly what he wanted. If Hopkins cuts across the safety, it's an easy pitch & catch provided he can put enough mustard on it to get it to Hop before the window closes.
At the snap, Collins jumps on the TE route going the other way, then falls back to the middle of the field. I doubt there are many LBs (especially his size) that could have, or would have got that deep after initially jumping on the TE route to the other side of the field.
That was just a heck of a play by a heck of an athlete.
my 2 cents
(I can't believe I said Josh Weeden and not Brandon).
Weeden didn't play this offense. They hucked 3/4 of the 'system' out the window and played common concept football.
Every year when we lose a bunch of QB's and have to bring in guys with little or no time in our system who then end up looking really good in the dumbed down "thing" we slap together in a few days I ask myself this question.
If your system looks better when you throw 3/4 of it out the window and hand it to someone you haven't spent months teaching it to or making practice it then why exactly are you wasting your time with that system?
'Cauze that's the only way to have a winning season, you see.Every year when we lose a bunch of QB's and have to bring in guys with little or no time in our system who then end up looking really good in the dumbed down "thing" we slap together in a few days I ask myself this question.
If your system looks better when you throw 3/4 of it out the window and hand it to someone you haven't spent months teaching it to or making practice it then why exactly are you wasting your time with that system?
Why should he have done that? Playing for those Texans made him a sitting duck open target. Every game was an opportunity for opposing defenses to feast on him.But Carr never put in the time to become a good quarterback. He was never the player that stayed late.
Why should he have done that? Playing for those Texans made him a sitting duck open target. Every game was an opportunity for opposing defenses to feast on him.
The NFL has had plenty of David Carrs in regards to being set up for failure. Of coarse the sacks went down under Schaub. Schaub didn't get thrust into the starting role as the savior of his team as a rooike behind a terrible offensive line. Too much pressure was put on David Carrs young shoulders from the start. The Cleveland Browns ruined several young Q's by doing to them what the Texans did to David Carr. Let's face it while you call me a Schaub appoligist this team was terribly coached and thier was little to no talent for him to work with.Sacks went from 43 to 22 with the transition from Carr to Schaub.
Just tired of people taking pot shots about a guy who has been gone for many years now. I guess there is no need to argue on his behalf but just the same there is no need to bring his name up anymore.We're bringing back arguments from 2002
Damn... this team needs a win bad.
The NFL has had plenty of David Carrs in regards to being set up for failure. Of coarse the sacks went down under Schaub. Schaub didn't get thrust into the starting role as the savior of his team as a rooike behind a terrible offensive line. Too much pressure was put on David Carrs young shoulders from the start. The Cleveland Browns ruined several young Q's by doing to them what the Texans did to David Carr. Let's face it while you call me a Schaub appoligist this team was terribly coached and thier was little to no talent for him to work with.
I may be a David Carr apologist but it is better than those of you who constantly make him the scapegoat for the Texans failures when he was the starter.
I will not say David Carr would have been the star everybody made him out to be coming out of college but I will say based on how his career was managed we will never for sure know what he could have been.
History will call him a bust but they will smile fondly on the rest of a joke our Texans were in the early years.
Lets face it, no matter who the Qb has been this orginization for the most part has been mediocre at best. That says more bad about the organization than it does any poor sap that gets to Qb this team.
David Carr didn't pick himself 1-1.
He also didn't put in the work to try and justify being picked there either. Even he admits he didn't do what he needed to do to be successful. From all reports he is a really nice guy who is a wonderful father, husband, neighbor, and friend. A genuinely good person.
He wasn't going to succeed anywhere in the NFL that didn't let him sit and grow up for a few years though and maybe not even then.
If he would have been drafted to a team that could have let him sit two or three years and lots of grooming, he might have made a decent backup... cuz that's as hard as he was gonna work for
In your first post you acknowledge and defend him for not putting in the long hours enhance his skill sets mainly his ability to read a defense and now you're saying there was too much pressure on him to succeed? Too much pressure? This was a grown man who's job was to play QB. That job over all others in sports requires the most out of that person. I'm not making him out to be the scapegoat. I liked Carr and I wanted him to be good. From all appearances is a genuinely decent man but that doesn't mean he didn't share responsibility for the lack of success this team has had.The NFL has had plenty of David Carrs in regards to being set up for failure. Of coarse the sacks went down under Schaub. Schaub didn't get thrust into the starting role as the savior of his team as a rooike behind a terrible offensive line. Too much pressure was put on David Carrs young shoulders from the start. The Cleveland Browns ruined several young Q's by doing to them what the Texans did to David Carr. Let's face it while you call me a Schaub appoligist this team was terribly coached and thier was little to no talent for him to work with.
I may be a David Carr apologist but it is better than those of you who constantly make him the scapegoat for the Texans failures when he was the starter.
I will not say David Carr would have been the star everybody made him out to be coming out of college but I will say based on how his career was managed we will never for sure know what he could have been.
History will call him a bust but they will smile fondly on the rest of a joke our Texans were in the early years.
Lets face it, no matter who the Qb has been this orginization for the most part has been mediocre at best. That says more bad about the organization than it does any poor sap that gets to Qb this team.
Maybe. One never knows. If he had time to mature and a guy playing in front of him on the depth chart who was a grinder-type role model he might have learned the work ethic he needed. The physical tools were all there so it was all about him being in a place where he could get his mind right.
I'm not going to say it was impossible. Unlikely but not impossible.
And I get tired of people conveniently glossing over fact just because someone is a nice guy. Hell I really wanted Kubiak to succeed as a Houstonian and he is a very good man himself but he had some successes and some failures (some his own fault some were on the lousy GM) but that doesn't mean I can't bring myself to realize that he could've been better. All that being said, I was happy for him and Wade winning the Super Bowl last season. I wish they could've done it here but oh well here we are.Just tired of people taking pot shots about a guy who has been gone for many years now. I guess there is no need to argue on his behalf but just the same there is no need to bring his name up anymore.
Maybe. One never knows. If he had time to mature and a guy playing in front of him on the depth chart who was a grinder-type role model he might have learned the work ethic he needed. The physical tools were all there so it was all about him being in a place where he could get his mind right.
I'm not going to say it was impossible. Unlikely but not impossible.
The reason, I think, is because teams will catch on after 3 or 4 games.
If you're only planning on using such & such at QB for 3 or 4 games, then you're right. No point trying to teach the whole thing.