Texansballer74
The Marine
Yeah I'm with Thunderkyss on this one, hahaha we need a win badly. We're seriously arguing about David Carr. People it's 2016. Hahaha
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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
The Vikings offense was putrid before they played us. They're still ranked behind our putrid offense in total yards. Yeah they dumbed it down a bit, tailored to Bradford last Sunday, but going forward they're going to have to add more & more.
I think we're saying the same thing. O'b is going to have to simplify it for Osweiler this week. Next week for sure. Then try to add to it at the bye.
Which is totally different than what they're doing for Wentz & Presscott. They started off with the dumb it down approach, where Osweiler's been trying to learn everything from the start.
I know Osweiler is a fifth year vet & Wentz is a rookie. But look at Osweiler's stats against Chicago week 1. Then look at Wentz' stats against Chicago in week 2. Then look at Presscott's stats against Chicago in week 3. It'll be clear as day we should have drafted Presscott...... j/k
I honestly think everyone is overreacting to how Osweiler played against some really good defenses. He'll be more comfortable Sunday night going against a defense that's closer to the rest of the NFL than what the Vikings were. He'll get back on track towards improving every single game. Come December, I doubt any of us would care how much they spent on him.
Sure hope you're right. I would love for him to succeed. Ob has to do a much better job on game plan than he has for that to happen
Max
Veteran
Several years ago before a game, I watched John Gruden talk about how Brett Favre made a lot of head coaches and offensive coordinators look like geniuses. Obviously that's not the situation we're in and BOB is going to have to earn that designation if Os and this team can become what most of us feel like it can.
No. I mean Osweiler sat in the back seat learning Kubiak's offense (learning to drive in America) and now he's having to run O'Brien's (moved to England and having to re-learn how to drive over there). There will be an adjustment period. Ask your friends if it didn't take some getting used to when the first moved from one to the other.What witt?
It should be the other way around.
Remember how many SBs Bill Walsh had won with the WCO?
Then how steady Shanahan made the Beoncos.
You would think that if it's an easy system to run, and have great sucess, that more people would do it, right?
Or you mean the 5-2 record by Osweiler was a fluke, as he was only sitting in the back seat?
Hmm, come to think of that.
You may have a point there.
Oh and quite a few teams DO run some variation of the WCO or have a pkg that borrows heavily from it. So I'm not sure what your point was for bringing that up.
That is a result of Brady having years of experience. Very few situations are unfamiliar to him because he's been there/done that - in the biggest games.
Osweiler's experience level? No where near as much.
Why does it bother you what Osweiler is paid? It didn't stop us from getting a highly rated guard & RB. If we had decided to sign an offensive tackle, we have enough flexibility in existing contracts to make it happen.
$18M or a first round pick. It's a wash to me.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Carson Wentz or Brock Osweiler?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yeah I'm with Thunderkyss on this one, hahaha we need a win badly. We're seriously arguing about David Carr. People it's 2016. Hahaha
I agree with all of this and would like to add both Dallas and Philly have a much better offensive line.
If I were the coach I pretend to be, it wouldn't matter. I could win with either.
Bother? Me? Never.
I disagreed with the trade value for Schaub plus the contract.
I disagreed with the extension.
I disagreed with the extention to Carr.
I disagreed with paying Osweiler at any number of dollar. I don't go buy a pair of shoes just because it's cheap. I want a pair of comfortable shoes.
But Bother, No.
More like indifferent.
I'm not wearing that pair of shoes.
Bother? Me? Never.
I disagreed with the trade value for Schaub plus the contract.
I disagreed with the extension.
I disagreed with the extention to Carr.
I disagreed with paying Osweiler at any number of dollar. I don't go buy a pair of shoes just because it's cheap. I want a pair of comfortable shoes.
But Bother, No.
More like indifferent.
I'm not wearing that pair of shoes.
Hmpf....
Sounds like it bothers you.
that's not exactly putting words in your mouth.
It counts toward learning/operating Kubiak's offensive system.
Has it helped him operate O'Brien's offense proficiently? Apparently not as yet.
TripleTap
Dead Wood
Thanks for this. The smartest thing said about Carr in this thread.
Scooter
Funky
Sorry Herv, but this is the singularly dumbest statement made about a draft pick. He made himself eligible for the draft and had his agent pushing his stock the moment he declared. David Carr picked himself first overall ... the Texans failed by agreeing with him. I don't remember a press conference saying 'I look forward to clocking in from 9 to 5'. 'I'm excited about doing just enough to have my parents in the stands on Sundays'. 'Hopefully a good team will pick me in the 4th round!!!'. No, he picked himself 1-1, and the Texans crapped the next 5 years by making that suggestion a reality.
That came out more aggressive than intended.
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And you still don't see what I mean?
I think you're did.
You think you didn't.
At the end of the day, it's perception.
You think it bothers me all you want.
I'm happy that most everything don't bother me, or very little.
Perhaps we can draw the comparison with Case Keenum.
Go to their individual pages on Pro Football Reference .com
Case came in the league the same year, 2012.
He was on the PS.
Osweiler played in 5 games (garbage time).
He handed the ball to the RBs, threw 4 passes, and took 6 kneel downs to end the game.
2013, Case leaped frog Yates (who came in 2011) to start 8 games.
Osweiler played in 4 games, mostly in garbage time, except for one game against the lowly Raider.
With the Broncos ahead by 31 points, Osweiler got to play the entire second half.
The Broncos kicked one FG; the Raiders scored 14 to make the score respectable.
This is just to show that Osweiler, as the backup QB, did take some reps with the no. 1 unit in practice throughout the season.
I'll continue later.
Or maybe you can do it yourself.
Also, let me refresh things a bit here.
In 2013, Yates was named the backup QB to start the season.
http://abc13.com/archive/9237465/
However; once the Texans started out 2-4, Kubiak started Keenum against KC in week 7, instead of Yates.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/9839777/houston-texans-name-case-keenum-qb-matt-schaub-out
Prior to that week, you can imagine that Keenum have had maybe zero to very few reps with the no. 1 unit.
Keenum definitely looked like he knows what he was doing out there, against a fierce Chiefs pass rush.
In the 8 starts by Keenum, the Texans were out-rushed in 6 games (by a large margin).
The defense allowed more than 20 points 6 times.
In the 7 starts by Osweiler with Broncos in 2015, the Broncos out-rushed their opponents every single time, often by a large margin of more than 100 yards.
The defense allowed more than 20 points only twice.
Osweiler had the same 5 guys on the Offensive line in all games.
Keenum saw changes on the line here and there; and all the while, his LG Wade Smith was playing on two banged knees that needed pre-game shots the whole year.
You can check the snap counts on Football Outsiders.
You will see that Newton was playing hurt; with Harris sharing snaps.
Smith was banged up as above; sometimes replaced by Ben Jones.
Keenum and Osweiler had very similar numbers in their first 7 starts, both under Kubiak.
But as I had pointed out, Osweiler had much more support.
In 2013, Yates was named the backup QB to start the season.
http://abc13.com/archive/9237465/
However; once the Texans started out 2-4, Kubiak started Keenum against KC in week 7, instead of Yates.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/9839777/houston-texans-name-case-keenum-qb-matt-schaub-out
Prior to that week, you can imagine that Keenum have had maybe zero to very few reps with the no. 1 unit.
Keenum definitely looked like he knows what he was doing out there, against a fierce Chiefs pass rush.
In the 8 starts by Keenum, the Texans were out-rushed in 6 games (by a large margin).
The defense allowed more than 20 points 6 times.
In the 7 starts by Osweiler with Broncos in 2015, the Broncos out-rushed their opponents every single time, often by a large margin of more than 100 yards.
The defense allowed more than 20 points only twice.
Osweiler had the same 5 guys on the Offensive line in all games.
Keenum saw changes on the line here and there; and all the while, his LG Wade Smith was playing on two banged knees that needed pre-game shots the whole year.
You can check the snap counts on Football Outsiders.
You will see that Newton was playing hurt; with Harris sharing snaps.
Smith was banged up as above; sometimes replaced by Ben Jones.
Keenum and Osweiler had very similar numbers in their first 7 starts, both under Kubiak.
But as I had pointed out, Osweiler had much more support.
In 2014, Keenum was cut before the season started, when O'Brien brought in Mallett and drafted Savage. (All bad moves)
The Rams stacked him on PS, but released him when they needed the space due to injury at another position. (They figured nobody is familiar with Case and won't need him.)
Except for the Texans' injury situation, had Keenum cancelled his hunting trip to come back and posted two wins for O'Brien.
He wasn't even on the bus, let alone the back seat.
And what playbook?
The Rams then traded for Keenum.
He beat out Austin to claim the backup job to start the season.
When Foles's play diminished, they put Keenum in, and he never let Foles back into the fold.
So Keenum had seen 3 different play books.
The Rams offensive line has been in flux for years now, you can read up about it.
Gurley couldn't get it going this year, similar to Miller in Houston.
Keenum does not have the same talented weapons as Osweiler.
The Rams defense is only comparable with the Texans' but this year, due to the loss of JJ Watt.
And yet, their numbers are more or less the same.
Keenum may not have the arm strength, nor the big hand size, nor the height.
But he definitely is a much smarter guy that knows what he's doing out there.
Osweiler... not so much.
The Rams stacked him on PS, but released him when they needed the space due to injury at another position. (They figured nobody is familiar with Case and won't need him.)
Except for the Texans' injury situation, had Keenum cancelled his hunting trip to come back and posted two wins for O'Brien.
He wasn't even on the bus, let alone the back seat.
And what playbook?
The Rams then traded for Keenum.
He beat out Austin to claim the backup job to start the season.
When Foles's play diminished, they put Keenum in, and he never let Foles back into the fold.
So Keenum had seen 3 different play books.
The Rams offensive line has been in flux for years now, you can read up about it.
Gurley couldn't get it going this year, similar to Miller in Houston.
Keenum does not have the same talented weapons as Osweiler.
The Rams defense is only comparable with the Texans' but this year, due to the loss of JJ Watt.
And yet, their numbers are more or less the same.
Keenum may not have the arm strength, nor the big hand size, nor the height.
But he definitely is a much smarter guy that knows what he's doing out there.
Osweiler... not so much.
@76Texan -- The point I thought we were discussing is whether Osweiler's experience in Denver should make him be immediately proficient in O'Brien's offense. You say yes, I say not really. The two offenses are different styles, have different pre-snap keys, the coaches have different expectations. He "grew up" in one and is now having to convert to the other.
Not sure what Case Keenum has to do with Osweiler having to learn a totally new offense.
Not sure what Case Keenum has to do with Osweiler having to learn a totally new offense.
Keenum had to learn new offenses, too.
And he had to learn them fast, as in on-the-fly.
But he gets them quickly.
Osweiler did not.
Osweiler even had the benefit of a full training camp with the no. 1 unit here in Houston.
Keenum did not have that when he returned to the Texans in 2014.
He did not have that opportunity in 2015 with the Rams either.
And he had to learn them fast, as in on-the-fly.
But he gets them quickly.
Osweiler did not.
Osweiler even had the benefit of a full training camp with the no. 1 unit here in Houston.
Keenum did not have that when he returned to the Texans in 2014.
He did not have that opportunity in 2015 with the Rams either.
Now to be an apple-to-apples comparison, did Keenum in 2014 or 15 have to learn the entire playbook, as Osweiler is expected to or did the coaches give him an abbreviated version to pick up in a short time? I think we both know in both cases Keenum came into an emergency situation and was given a shortened playbook to pick up.
It's kind of like what the Vikes did with Sam Bradford. Turner started with what he knew Bradford could do and built a playbook around that. As the season progresses they'll continue to build upon those plays and add new stuff to the playbook.
That's what O'Brien should have done with Osweiler; studied what he did well and built his playbook around that. Looks to me like he (O'Brien) has Osweiler drinking from a firehose as in trying to learn everything at once.
But maybe you're right. Maybe Keenum is sharper. I remember you were rather disappointed when he was let go from here.
I was with you up until this point. If nothing else you've argued well that the Texans shouldn't have wasted their time with Fitz & Hoyer... & Savage. & that we basically have the same guy in Osweiler whom we're paying a lot more than Keenum.
I don't understand how your argument is supposed to get us to "Osweiler... not so much."
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Disagree completely. You just made the singularly dumbest statement made about a draft pick hands down. Not one player who has made himself eligible for the NFL draft in the history of the thing has ever selected himself first overall. That is for 32 teams to decide based on their body of work, the combine (if applicable), and personal workouts/interviews. 32 different front offices and scouting departments come to the consensus of who the better players are and of who the best players are. The bad teams consistently come out of the first round with gold plated turds.
The players do everything they can to look good and the teams make the picks. Come on man you know how this works. The "Texans failure" (and it was specifically the Texans failure) is exactly what I'm talking about. They looked over all the players available and chose David Carr over Julius Peppers despite the fact that they had no realistic plan to address protecting him and minimal weapons to give him. It's not the fault of the player though if he's taken too high. That blame belongs squarely on the team that makes the pick.
The Texans fell for fools gold. It happens every year to some teams and we've benefited in the past from it too (Charles Rogers over Andre Johnson? Thank you Matt Millen!)
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I'm completely lost. Keenum came in & won two games under O'b. Osweiler came in & won his first two games under O'b (including a little KC payback).
I didn't think Keenum looked particularly good in those wins, if I dug I'd probably find that we out rushed & out defensed our opponents more than Keenum picked them apart.
That Osweiler had the benefit of a complete offseason to get this offense is disconcerting. At the same time, Keenum hasn't shown to have mastered what they're doing in LA either.
Still, Osweiler's experience in Denver should have given him a leg up in seeing & feeling what an NFL defense is all about. That's something no rookie has. If Osweiler had the athleticism & ability to process information like Prescott or Wentz surely our offense would look as good as theirs.
But he doesn't. Right now, if Osweiler hasn't beaten the defense by the time he reaches the bottom of his drop, he isn't likely to.
So O'b needs to figure out how to help Brock beat defenses more consistently before he gets to the bottom of his drop.
All QBs are given the same play book.
For each game, the coaches select a number of play series.
A few years ago, the media (I can't remember which one) said that the Jaguars beat the Texans with just 5 or 6 plays.
That's not true. They are rather series of plays.
Let's say series one is with a 11personnel, and 3 receivers in bunch formation on the other side of the TE.
From this personnel, the QB can call a flip. He can call a run off tackle left.
He can call for a few different route combinations.
At any rate, the team only practice a certain number of play series from the play book each week.
So the point here is that the QB needs to master those plays in that one week.
The playbook may contain 120 play series.
But the team only practices maybe 6 play series for that one particular game , for that particular opponent, that particular week.
So the key thing is for the QB not to look lost.
Not to check down too early when there's no rush coming.
Or to make sure the ball get out on time.
Know where the first down marker is.
Things like that.
Osweiler is very lacking in those regards.
Let's say we see Strong run a reverse from the left to right out 12 personnel at minute 4 of the third quarter.
Osweiler faked the ball to Miller before handing it to Strong.
That is not an independent play out of some 10,000 total plays in the play book.
If we rewind the tape, we could see the Texans in that same 12 personnel, let say at the 3 min mark in the 1st quarter.
Strong did the same thing, except Osweiler gave the ball to Miller and faked the reverse hand-off to Strong.
At another point in time, we could see the same line up again.
But this time Osweiler faked to both Miller and Strong, then drop back for a pass.
So you thought you saw 3 plays, but it's just one series.
So, to continue, and also to answer TK's question.
It's not a matter of Keenum not shedding the Ravens.
It's how he carry out the game plan and the play calling.
The QB needs to know that he has the right personnel on the field for that series, get the players to line up properly, make sure that his communication with the C is thorough to set up the correct blocking scheme.
Sometimes, he can see that it won't work with a certain look from the D.
The QB can check into a run instead of the pass called (when allowed and pre-determined in practice.)
Or he can call time out.
What I'm saying is that the QB needs to be able to carry out those tasks.
The play can fail for many reasons.
A miss block, a good play by the defense, etc.
If those things happen, it wasn't on the QB.
When both teams excecute correctly 90% of the time while not giving up a big play, we have a defensive battle.
It's not a matter of Keenum not shedding the Ravens.
It's how he carry out the game plan and the play calling.
The QB needs to know that he has the right personnel on the field for that series, get the players to line up properly, make sure that his communication with the C is thorough to set up the correct blocking scheme.
Sometimes, he can see that it won't work with a certain look from the D.
The QB can check into a run instead of the pass called (when allowed and pre-determined in practice.)
Or he can call time out.
What I'm saying is that the QB needs to be able to carry out those tasks.
The play can fail for many reasons.
A miss block, a good play by the defense, etc.
If those things happen, it wasn't on the QB.
When both teams excecute correctly 90% of the time while not giving up a big play, we have a defensive battle.
A play that is on the QB, for example, was the strip fumble by Osweiler in the last game.
Some wants to blame the O-line.
Not me.
The DE gets a piece of the ball after the 3 sec mark. That's on the QB.
Osweiler's long wind-up had the ball out there, in easy reach of the defender.
That's the second point that contributed.
I had mentioned this fact when disecting the game in which Osweiler was benched in Denver.
His throwing motion was the result of one of the INTs.
This nothing new.
I've talked about this with Schaub some time ago.
He worked on it over time, and had shorten it considerably the last few years he was here.
Some wants to blame the O-line.
Not me.
The DE gets a piece of the ball after the 3 sec mark. That's on the QB.
Osweiler's long wind-up had the ball out there, in easy reach of the defender.
That's the second point that contributed.
I had mentioned this fact when disecting the game in which Osweiler was benched in Denver.
His throwing motion was the result of one of the INTs.
This nothing new.
I've talked about this with Schaub some time ago.
He worked on it over time, and had shorten it considerably the last few years he was here.
I think most here are putting ample responsibility (blame) on Osweiler.There are a few here over emphasizing the OL culpability. Obsiwan isn't one of them. I'm not one of them.
ObsiWan argues that even though Brock started seven games in Denver we shouldn't expect MVP play out of him five games into this season (note, neither ObsiWan or myself started this thread).
I only question that anyone thinks Keenum had demonstrated mastery of an offensive game plan. So far, (& I like Keenum & I want him to be a success) the only thing he has proven is that he can win games when handing the ball off to Arian Foster or Todd Gurley.
76Texan... last two posts, great stuff. I agree. But I think we forgot what we are arguing. Seems we're all on the same page here.
ObsiWan argues that even though Brock started seven games in Denver we shouldn't expect MVP play out of him five games into this season (note, neither ObsiWan or myself started this thread).
I only question that anyone thinks Keenum had demonstrated mastery of an offensive game plan. So far, (& I like Keenum & I want him to be a success) the only thing he has proven is that he can win games when handing the ball off to Arian Foster or Todd Gurley.
76Texan... last two posts, great stuff. I agree. But I think we forgot what we are arguing. Seems we're all on the same page here.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Spot on.
And if we aren't discussing what I bolded then I've forgotten what the original point of discussion was myself
Texas Jake
Rookie
The only one who can truly answer that question is probably Brock. Even if he is not staring down receivers, I question whether he is registering everything in his field of view and is getting much information from his peripheral vision. I think the ability to gather and process the peripheral information is one of the things that separates the good ones from the great ones.
We see glimpses of what Brock is capable of; hopefully he can take the next step.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I agree and I'm glad someone has finally made this point. The only thing I would add is, in the micro-second following the processing of the field view, is the ability to react with a quick release and accurate throw. Except for the accuracy, I don't think this ability can be learned or acquired. A QB either has it or doesn't.
I haven't seen an elite level of this skill in Qz.
Texas Jake
Rookie
Repetition will improve the ability to see and process information. This will begin to happen when the "game slows down" and he is not suffering from information overload. The issue is how much repetition will it take to see noticeable improvement. If he can get to this point (past the information overload stage), he can start to play relaxed and all aspects of his game should see improvement including accuracy and consistency.
Spot on.
And if we aren't discussing what I bolded then I've forgotten what the original point of discussion was myself
LOL.
TK was just playing diversion.
I certainly didn't expect much out of Osweiler.
But I expect for him not to look so lost out there.
On the other hand, I have no idea why TK would even mention Keenum mastering the play execution.
Bottom line: Osweiler looked lost in his 10th and 12th career start - vs Pats & Vikings)
Keenum looked like he knows what he was doing out there (in his 9th and 14th start vs. Ravens and Seahawks.)
I'm using the Ravens and Seahawks game because those two teams have a great defense at that particular point in time - definitely better than the Pats and the Vikings.
Stats are for fantasy football.
Just watch the game.
TejasTom
All Pro
Texansballer74
The Marine
Possible, oh no they all suck.
1. Game we couldn't get past the 50.
2. Where is the running game.
3. Twice the offense looked vanilla against top notch defenses.
4. Poor quarterback decisions in each game thus far.
5. Our offensive tackles are losing their one on one battles often.
6. Our offensive line in the run game is not getting to the next level on their blocks.
7. Horrific game adjustments throughout these games.
8. Our team is still have problems with being ready for big time games.
9. Brock looking like a scared rookie staring down every receivers.
10. We are not getting the ball to our playmakers like we should.
11. There is no creativity to our offensive game plan.
Lol possible,
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TejasTom
All Pro
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
NFL experts weigh in on Brock Osweiler's start with Texans
Jury remains out on whether quarterback eventually will amount to much
The football skidded across the ground, an unintended bounce pass intended for uncovered tight end Ryan Griffin that was short-armed by towering Texans quarterback Brock Osweiler. It was a puzzling misfire, sans pressure, on third down during what should have been a routine throw against the Minnesota Vikings last Sunday, a 31-13 debacle of a loss. Eyebrows are being raised in NFL circles about Osweiler during a rocky start to his tenure with the Texans.
Signed to a four-year, $72 million contract that included $37 million guaranteed as an investment on potential more so than past accomplishments during four seasons with the Denver Broncos, Osweiler has struggled mightily heading into a pivotal AFC South Division clash against the Indianapolis Colts on Sunday night at NRG Stadium.
"That throw on third down kind of made me scratch my head and wonder, 'Is this guy pressing or losing confidence in himself or the direction of the offense?' Because Brock has to be able to make that throw when there's no one in his face," said an NFL personnel executive speaking on condition of anonymity. "I know Brock hasn't started a ton of games and he had a ideal situation: being coached by Gary Kubiak, mentored by Peyton Manning, throwing to Demaryius Thomas. But the Texans didn't pay this guy that kind of money to have this little production.
"It's early, but he's not looking very good as far as how he handles blitzes and stunts, how long he takes to get the football out, the location of his throws, how he reads defenses. Can he still become a good quarterback? The jury is still out on that one. The honest answer right now is: I don't know. Check back with me at the end of the season."
Osweiler has only started a dozen career games, including a 5-2 mark with the eventual Super Bowl champion Broncos last season. However, Osweiler hasn't been nearly as efficient for the 3-2 Texans.
With seven interceptions offsetting six touchdowns, Osweiler is tied with embattled Miami Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill for the third-most interceptions in the league. He has completed 58 percent of his throws for 1,133 yards and a 70.6 passer rating, ranking him 40th among all NFL quarterbacks behind rookie starters Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott, new Broncos starter Trevor Siemian plus Los Angeles Rams starter Case Keenum.
The 6-8, 235-pound Osweiler is regarded as a work in progress who holds vast potential and has arrived at something of an early crossroads in his career.
"Osweiler is a young quarterback in a complex system who's not quite ready yet," said Greg Cosell, a senior analyst for NFL Films. "The reality is Osweiler isn't handling pressure real well, so teams are going to blitz him. He is a tall, lanky kid, an overstrider who needs functional space to throw the ball effectively. It was fascinating to me watching them have six offensive linemen in the game on third down, and you never see that. But they know they need to protect him.
"He's not a very good pocket mover. I'm not saying he never can be the guy, but I'm going off of what the evidence shows. I have a great deal of respect for Bill O'Brien, and I'm sure he's coaching him hard. If Osweiler is going to get there, Bill is the kind of coach who will get him there.
"Everybody reacts 24-7, 365 days a year, but Brock is a 12-game starter who needs work. It's going to take time."
Any wiggle room for patience?
The body of work for Osweiler despite being in his fifth NFL season is a relatively limited sample size. He has completed 60 percent of his career throws for 3,259 yards, 17 touchdowns and 13 interceptions for an 80.2 passer rating.
Patience is the watchword with Osweiler in a league with precious little of it in supply and pressure mounting as younger quarterbacks like Wentz and Prescott are off to stellar starts to their respective NFL careers.
"The Texans basically, in my opinion, rushed to judgment and made an investment in a young man they thought would be good down the road, and that still has to be the thought process with him," former NFL quarterback Joe Theismann said. "Once you attach the dollar figure of $72 million, you lose the luxury of saying, 'Wait until next year for him to figure it all out.' If I'm paying you this much money, you have to be good. Everybody scratched their heads when the Texans signed him to such a huge contract with such a small body of work.
"It all goes back to inexperience. He needs to play a full season and learn the nuances of the system. I think he has a chance to be good, but very few tall guys are. Name a 6-8 guy who's been successful in the NFL. There hasn't been one. He has a longer stride and delivery. There are benefits of size, but also many challenges being a tall guy."
A tough offense to master
One of the more underrated aspects of the transition Osweiler is making to a new football team is the complexity of O'Brien's offense and what's demanded from the quarterback rather than the glorified game-manager approach adopted under Kubiak with the Broncos. Osweiler has a tremendous amount of responsibility with the Texans. Despite his knowledge of the offense in the classroom, the execution on the field has been substandard.
"I said all along the transition to this style of offense would be difficult for Brock and it would take him a while to get caught up to speed," said former NFL quarterback Jim Miller, a Sirius XM NFL analyst. "That offense changes every week as far as the emphasis, just like the New England Patriots. They've changed play-callers from George Godsey to Bill O'Brien and Bill can be a pretty gruff coach. I'm sure they're butting heads a little on some things.
"Brock is big and tall and moves pretty well and is a good, mobile quarterback for his height. I don't like his three-quarter delivery that makes him play smaller than what he is. He gets the ball batted down more than he should, but he's a smart, tough kid who can take hits. He's just getting started. We won't know enough about him until he's getting up to 20, 30 starts. It's too early to give up on him."
Osweiler was sacked four times and hit 13 times overall by the Vikings. For the season, he has been sacked 11 times and hit 37 overall. The Texans only have one offensive lineman who has been named to a Pro Bowl and that's left tackle Duane Brown, who just returned from quadriceps tendon surgery.
"The left guard (Xavier Su'a-Filo) wasn't very good, the right tackle (Derek Newton) was really bad last week," Cosell said. "It's an erratic offensive line, and Brock needs a good offensive line."
Although the Texans have a talented receiving corps that includes speedy first-round draft pick Will Fuller, they have two offensive players who have ever been named to a Pro Bowl in wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins and Brown.
"There's kind of a talent drain on offense, because you really need to have at least Pro Bowl guys on that side of the ball," Theismann said. "That affects Brock. He has the potential to be a good quarterback and the Texans have a chance to be a good football team with the right kind of people. They're short on those people.
"They have to start building a better offensive line to help Brock out."
One of the more troubling aspects of Osweiler's game is a tendency to telegraph his throws because defensive backs are reading his eyes as he fails to look them off and forces the football into heavy traffic.
During his latest interception against the Vikings with the game out of reach, Osweiler sailed a throw over the head of wide receiver Jaelen Strong into a crowded area. The pass was intercepted by safety Andrew Sendejo, and it could just have easily been picked off by safety Harrison Smith.
"That was just freaking horrible," Cosell said. "I don't know what he was looking at. He was trying to hit Strong in the seam, but it was two-man coverage and Sendejo was just sitting there. He couldn't have completed that ball under any circumstances. It was a terrible read and throw that had zero chance of working.
"Minnesota played a lot more man coverage than normal. Mike Zimmer didn't do that on a whim. He wanted to play more man against their receivers and they struggled to get open. That made it even harder for Osweiler."
'I don't want to let them down'
Osweiler had a similar interception during a 27-0 loss at New England where he was picked off by linebacker Jamie Collins as he made a great read of a throw intended for Hopkins.
"Stare downs are a tough thing because a lot of times, depending on route concepts and length of drop, you don't necessarily have to look off people," Cosell said. "On the Collins interception, I thought he was throwing the ball to Hopkins right out of the huddle. As soon as he saw Cover 2, he did look front side right away when Stephen Anderson broke outside. Jamie Collins did an unbelievable job. I think Brock was surprised Collins played that one so great."
Despite his early struggles since his arrival in Houston, Osweiler remains determined to prove himself. He's aware he needs to play much better and disappointed things haven't gone more smoothly.
"Everybody in that locker room, I think we all respect one another," Osweiler said. "There's no pointing of fingers. I take great pride and put in a ton of preparation because I want to be great for my teammates. I don't want to let them down."
Jury remains out on whether quarterback eventually will amount to much
The football skidded across the ground, an unintended bounce pass intended for uncovered tight end Ryan Griffin that was short-armed by towering Texans quarterback Brock Osweiler. It was a puzzling misfire, sans pressure, on third down during what should have been a routine throw against the Minnesota Vikings last Sunday, a 31-13 debacle of a loss. Eyebrows are being raised in NFL circles about Osweiler during a rocky start to his tenure with the Texans.
Signed to a four-year, $72 million contract that included $37 million guaranteed as an investment on potential more so than past accomplishments during four seasons with the Denver Broncos, Osweiler has struggled mightily heading into a pivotal AFC South Division clash against the Indianapolis Colts on Sunday night at NRG Stadium.
"That throw on third down kind of made me scratch my head and wonder, 'Is this guy pressing or losing confidence in himself or the direction of the offense?' Because Brock has to be able to make that throw when there's no one in his face," said an NFL personnel executive speaking on condition of anonymity. "I know Brock hasn't started a ton of games and he had a ideal situation: being coached by Gary Kubiak, mentored by Peyton Manning, throwing to Demaryius Thomas. But the Texans didn't pay this guy that kind of money to have this little production.
"It's early, but he's not looking very good as far as how he handles blitzes and stunts, how long he takes to get the football out, the location of his throws, how he reads defenses. Can he still become a good quarterback? The jury is still out on that one. The honest answer right now is: I don't know. Check back with me at the end of the season."
Osweiler has only started a dozen career games, including a 5-2 mark with the eventual Super Bowl champion Broncos last season. However, Osweiler hasn't been nearly as efficient for the 3-2 Texans.
With seven interceptions offsetting six touchdowns, Osweiler is tied with embattled Miami Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill for the third-most interceptions in the league. He has completed 58 percent of his throws for 1,133 yards and a 70.6 passer rating, ranking him 40th among all NFL quarterbacks behind rookie starters Carson Wentz and Dak Prescott, new Broncos starter Trevor Siemian plus Los Angeles Rams starter Case Keenum.
The 6-8, 235-pound Osweiler is regarded as a work in progress who holds vast potential and has arrived at something of an early crossroads in his career.
"Osweiler is a young quarterback in a complex system who's not quite ready yet," said Greg Cosell, a senior analyst for NFL Films. "The reality is Osweiler isn't handling pressure real well, so teams are going to blitz him. He is a tall, lanky kid, an overstrider who needs functional space to throw the ball effectively. It was fascinating to me watching them have six offensive linemen in the game on third down, and you never see that. But they know they need to protect him.
"He's not a very good pocket mover. I'm not saying he never can be the guy, but I'm going off of what the evidence shows. I have a great deal of respect for Bill O'Brien, and I'm sure he's coaching him hard. If Osweiler is going to get there, Bill is the kind of coach who will get him there.
"Everybody reacts 24-7, 365 days a year, but Brock is a 12-game starter who needs work. It's going to take time."
Any wiggle room for patience?
The body of work for Osweiler despite being in his fifth NFL season is a relatively limited sample size. He has completed 60 percent of his career throws for 3,259 yards, 17 touchdowns and 13 interceptions for an 80.2 passer rating.
Patience is the watchword with Osweiler in a league with precious little of it in supply and pressure mounting as younger quarterbacks like Wentz and Prescott are off to stellar starts to their respective NFL careers.
"The Texans basically, in my opinion, rushed to judgment and made an investment in a young man they thought would be good down the road, and that still has to be the thought process with him," former NFL quarterback Joe Theismann said. "Once you attach the dollar figure of $72 million, you lose the luxury of saying, 'Wait until next year for him to figure it all out.' If I'm paying you this much money, you have to be good. Everybody scratched their heads when the Texans signed him to such a huge contract with such a small body of work.
"It all goes back to inexperience. He needs to play a full season and learn the nuances of the system. I think he has a chance to be good, but very few tall guys are. Name a 6-8 guy who's been successful in the NFL. There hasn't been one. He has a longer stride and delivery. There are benefits of size, but also many challenges being a tall guy."
A tough offense to master
One of the more underrated aspects of the transition Osweiler is making to a new football team is the complexity of O'Brien's offense and what's demanded from the quarterback rather than the glorified game-manager approach adopted under Kubiak with the Broncos. Osweiler has a tremendous amount of responsibility with the Texans. Despite his knowledge of the offense in the classroom, the execution on the field has been substandard.
"I said all along the transition to this style of offense would be difficult for Brock and it would take him a while to get caught up to speed," said former NFL quarterback Jim Miller, a Sirius XM NFL analyst. "That offense changes every week as far as the emphasis, just like the New England Patriots. They've changed play-callers from George Godsey to Bill O'Brien and Bill can be a pretty gruff coach. I'm sure they're butting heads a little on some things.
"Brock is big and tall and moves pretty well and is a good, mobile quarterback for his height. I don't like his three-quarter delivery that makes him play smaller than what he is. He gets the ball batted down more than he should, but he's a smart, tough kid who can take hits. He's just getting started. We won't know enough about him until he's getting up to 20, 30 starts. It's too early to give up on him."
Osweiler was sacked four times and hit 13 times overall by the Vikings. For the season, he has been sacked 11 times and hit 37 overall. The Texans only have one offensive lineman who has been named to a Pro Bowl and that's left tackle Duane Brown, who just returned from quadriceps tendon surgery.
"The left guard (Xavier Su'a-Filo) wasn't very good, the right tackle (Derek Newton) was really bad last week," Cosell said. "It's an erratic offensive line, and Brock needs a good offensive line."
Although the Texans have a talented receiving corps that includes speedy first-round draft pick Will Fuller, they have two offensive players who have ever been named to a Pro Bowl in wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins and Brown.
"There's kind of a talent drain on offense, because you really need to have at least Pro Bowl guys on that side of the ball," Theismann said. "That affects Brock. He has the potential to be a good quarterback and the Texans have a chance to be a good football team with the right kind of people. They're short on those people.
"They have to start building a better offensive line to help Brock out."
One of the more troubling aspects of Osweiler's game is a tendency to telegraph his throws because defensive backs are reading his eyes as he fails to look them off and forces the football into heavy traffic.
During his latest interception against the Vikings with the game out of reach, Osweiler sailed a throw over the head of wide receiver Jaelen Strong into a crowded area. The pass was intercepted by safety Andrew Sendejo, and it could just have easily been picked off by safety Harrison Smith.
"That was just freaking horrible," Cosell said. "I don't know what he was looking at. He was trying to hit Strong in the seam, but it was two-man coverage and Sendejo was just sitting there. He couldn't have completed that ball under any circumstances. It was a terrible read and throw that had zero chance of working.
"Minnesota played a lot more man coverage than normal. Mike Zimmer didn't do that on a whim. He wanted to play more man against their receivers and they struggled to get open. That made it even harder for Osweiler."
'I don't want to let them down'
Osweiler had a similar interception during a 27-0 loss at New England where he was picked off by linebacker Jamie Collins as he made a great read of a throw intended for Hopkins.
"Stare downs are a tough thing because a lot of times, depending on route concepts and length of drop, you don't necessarily have to look off people," Cosell said. "On the Collins interception, I thought he was throwing the ball to Hopkins right out of the huddle. As soon as he saw Cover 2, he did look front side right away when Stephen Anderson broke outside. Jamie Collins did an unbelievable job. I think Brock was surprised Collins played that one so great."
Despite his early struggles since his arrival in Houston, Osweiler remains determined to prove himself. He's aware he needs to play much better and disappointed things haven't gone more smoothly.
"Everybody in that locker room, I think we all respect one another," Osweiler said. "There's no pointing of fingers. I take great pride and put in a ton of preparation because I want to be great for my teammates. I don't want to let them down."
Hervoyel
BUENO!
True. The three are not mutually exclusive to one another.
Hell, against the Patriots and Vikings I'd almost say the evidence supported that idea.