WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Kelly deserves his own category. Hell the guy's nickname is Swag Kelly.
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What's your plan for QB next season?
- Thread starter xtruroyaltyx
- Start date
Kelly deserves his own category. Hell the guy's nickname is Swag Kelly.
If what you say is true, Peterman could rise up the boards like Wentz did last year. NFLDraftScout has him ranked as the #6 QB, just behind Mahomes, right now and have him going in the 4th rd. Both are listed as 6-2 and around 225 to 230 lbs. That's about the size of Prescott. Do you have any other numbers on Peterman like completion % and TD's to INT's?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
You can look all that up. What you'll see in film is that Pitt's offense is very interesting. They had 3 good running backs and they ran their offense very much through the run or threat of run. It's very similar to what we do. He excelled in keeping drives alive and Pitt scored a lot of points against highly rated defenses, or defenses with great talent. He just kind of makes things work on offense, but he's also not a stud measurable guy. His arm is probably not super strong, I haven't seen that it is, and he's not overly fast. What he does is not something that's going to shine at the combine, so I'm not sure he rises a great deal.
Thanks for the info!
Didn't know this,
Even more reason to draft Kelly,
So he's got a bit of a temper/edge to him. Tell me a great QB that doesn't? It's BOB's job to get those emotions channeled in the right direction. I notice that he didn't get into any trouble his last 2 yrs at Ole Miss. Maybe he's grown up since he was a freshman in college. I know I grew up a lot during that period of my life.
It's not like he got caught doing drugs or beating up his girlfriend. Oh well, another guy who's not Texans worthy. # Not going to be let into the boy scouts club.
poplarbluffman
Noob
talk a little about swagger...
Holmgren: Gunslinger? That was accurate. I still remember one time when, we’re driving, close game, and I asked him during a timeout what kind of play he liked. I grabbed him to focus him as I would on occasion. All the quarterbacks are laughing, and I’m like, what’s wrong with you guys?
Mike, Brett Favre says, You oughta see your mustache. There’s an icicle in there.
Everyone is busting out. Then he went out and did it. He went out and scored.
Homlgren also tells the story in the Super Bowl when he asked Favre to run the plays that he calls..1st play Favre audibles and wins the game
Dan Reeves early thought Elway was too dumb to be a successful NFL qb.and I believe Elway ended up with the most come from victories ever for a qb ...Bradshaw/Marino were the same they owned the 4th quarter when they could call their own plays..
Montana before his winning drive vs Dallas in the Super Bowl pointed to the crowd and said "isn't that John candy over there? to his teammates in that huddle..then went down and
scored the winning td....
takes a special personality be THE Man in front of millions..many choke. .Warner/Staubach used Christ for their anchor...others their huge egos Most have the same Meyers Briggs score..big showmen/big extroverts. too many of these kids are yes sir, no sir types. quie,t polite. and most fail. Fun watching interviews by P Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees in college. just see the confidence. Obviously I look at physical skills but I also know swag matters and look for the prospects that love the camera...Paxton Lynch last year loved the camera while Goff was gun shy. IMO it matters
Holmgren: Gunslinger? That was accurate. I still remember one time when, we’re driving, close game, and I asked him during a timeout what kind of play he liked. I grabbed him to focus him as I would on occasion. All the quarterbacks are laughing, and I’m like, what’s wrong with you guys?
Mike, Brett Favre says, You oughta see your mustache. There’s an icicle in there.
Everyone is busting out. Then he went out and did it. He went out and scored.
Homlgren also tells the story in the Super Bowl when he asked Favre to run the plays that he calls..1st play Favre audibles and wins the game
Dan Reeves early thought Elway was too dumb to be a successful NFL qb.and I believe Elway ended up with the most come from victories ever for a qb ...Bradshaw/Marino were the same they owned the 4th quarter when they could call their own plays..
Montana before his winning drive vs Dallas in the Super Bowl pointed to the crowd and said "isn't that John candy over there? to his teammates in that huddle..then went down and
scored the winning td....
takes a special personality be THE Man in front of millions..many choke. .Warner/Staubach used Christ for their anchor...others their huge egos Most have the same Meyers Briggs score..big showmen/big extroverts. too many of these kids are yes sir, no sir types. quie,t polite. and most fail. Fun watching interviews by P Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees in college. just see the confidence. Obviously I look at physical skills but I also know swag matters and look for the prospects that love the camera...Paxton Lynch last year loved the camera while Goff was gun shy. IMO it matters
poplarbluffman
Noob
talk a little about swagger...
Holmgren: Gunslinger? That was accurate. I still remember one time when, we’re driving, close game, and I asked him during a timeout what kind of play he liked. I grabbed him to focus him as I would on occasion. All the quarterbacks are laughing, and I’m like, what’s wrong with you guys?
Mike, Brett Favre says, You oughta see your mustache. There’s an icicle in there.
Everyone is busting out. Then he went out and did it. He went out and scored.
Homlgren also tells the story in the Super Bowl when he asked Favre to run the plays that he calls..1st play Favre audibles and wins the game
Dan Reeves early thought Elway was too dumb to be a successful NFL qb.and I believe Elway ended up with the most come from victories ever for a qb ...Bradshaw/Marino were the same they owned the 4th quarter when they could call their own plays....and dumb
Montana before his winning drive vs Dallas in the Super Bowl pointed to the crowd and said "isn't that John candy over there? to his teammates in that huddle..then went down and
scored the winning td....
takes a special personality be THE Man in front of millions..many choke. .Warner/Staubach used Christ for their anchor...others their huge egos Most have the same Meyers Briggs score..big showmen/big extroverts. too many of these kids are yes sir, no sir types. quie,t polite. and most fail. Fun watching interviews by P Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees in college. just see the confidence. Obviously I look at physical skills but I also know swag matters and look for the prospects that love the camera...Paxton Lynch last year loved the camera while Goff was gun shy. IMO it matters
Holmgren: Gunslinger? That was accurate. I still remember one time when, we’re driving, close game, and I asked him during a timeout what kind of play he liked. I grabbed him to focus him as I would on occasion. All the quarterbacks are laughing, and I’m like, what’s wrong with you guys?
Mike, Brett Favre says, You oughta see your mustache. There’s an icicle in there.
Everyone is busting out. Then he went out and did it. He went out and scored.
Homlgren also tells the story in the Super Bowl when he asked Favre to run the plays that he calls..1st play Favre audibles and wins the game
Dan Reeves early thought Elway was too dumb to be a successful NFL qb.and I believe Elway ended up with the most come from victories ever for a qb ...Bradshaw/Marino were the same they owned the 4th quarter when they could call their own plays....and dumb
Montana before his winning drive vs Dallas in the Super Bowl pointed to the crowd and said "isn't that John candy over there? to his teammates in that huddle..then went down and
scored the winning td....
takes a special personality be THE Man in front of millions..many choke. .Warner/Staubach used Christ for their anchor...others their huge egos Most have the same Meyers Briggs score..big showmen/big extroverts. too many of these kids are yes sir, no sir types. quie,t polite. and most fail. Fun watching interviews by P Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees in college. just see the confidence. Obviously I look at physical skills but I also know swag matters and look for the prospects that love the camera...Paxton Lynch last year loved the camera while Goff was gun shy. IMO it matters
I think you're getting "swag" mixed up with confidence in some of these examples. I know you have to have confidence to have "swag" but you don't have to have "swag" to have confidence. Montana pointing to the crowd and saying "isn't that John Candy over there" isn't "swag." It's just a great QB that had a lot of confidence in his abilities trying to lighten up the moment with his players and put them at ease in a critical situation. I'm not saying all the great QB's don't have some level of "swag" to them, but remember, some of the bad ones did too, and sometimes it even led to their downfall! VY and Manziel anyone? JMO.
Flux1281
Practice Squad
Big Ben has only played 16 games 3 time in 13 years he hurt every year and misses games but i would still roll him out knowing he is injury prone because he a great Q.B and he has had worse injuries than romo
BigBull
Rookie
Romo isn't a good enough qb on top of being injury prone. Also I'm tried of recycled crap qbs from other teams. It is time to draft a qb in an early round and develop said qb.
Cutler is 46-8 when Bears defense gives up 20 points or less.
Just sayin
Just sayin
They gotta get a vet that gives them a chance to win now while the defense is playing so well. This shouldn't preclude them from drafting a QB to develop.
BigBull
Rookie
I don't think an injury prone never won a big game choke artist is the answer is all I'm saying. I just don't think any of the veterans qb that will be available by trade or free agency are going to give that much of a chance to win now anymore than the crap already on the roster.
Flux1281
Practice Squad
Romo is not good enough of a Q.B plz stop i now see you know nothing about Romo and the Q.B position with that statement
the 4th all time Q.B in passer rating and number 1 all time 4thq passer is not good enough to qb your team O.K!!!!!!
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xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'd take cutler over Brock all day.
Cutler with this defense would be pretty good I think.
That's too easy.
I don't hate Osweiler, critical of him yes, but he didn't even reach the low threshold I had for him.
I blame O'Brien for that.
He's been mostly about reigning in the mistakes and not working on the QB strength; that much is clear.
I don't believe in that.
This organization is a mess, just wandering around.
I wonder what Brock's record is when his defense gives up 20 points or less... heck, I'd believe Hoyer does pretty good as well when his defense gives up 20 point or less.
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He completed 60.5 percent of his passes, but his passes come with a higher difficulty level because of his recievers lack of seperation. 9.3 yards per attempt because he pushes it downfield. 27 tds to 7 ints. His arm strength is good not great, similar to Matt Ryan there. I just watch game cutups with all of his throws, and I can't figure out why he isn't rated higher.
michaelm
vox nihili
Re: rum, have you ever tried Zaya? Es muy bueno
I watched his bowl game, he played OK. Not great, looked accurate and got knocked out with a concussion.
I also watched him against Penn St/N.C./Clemson/NW while looking at Bisonwaty/Johnson and he looked great. Very accurate, I didn't think of him as a starting NFL QB because he played behind a great OL that I thought made him look better than he really was. I thought he lacked NFL arm strength but possessed great accuracy.
After thinking about it, I'm going to have to reassess my position. He looked a lot like Brady at Michigan. He will need to sit for a couple of yrs though.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Turned out to be an unexpectedly good thread. I think with "swag" the OP simply means supreme confidence. Most QBs love the spotlight. They thrive in it. Look at how many of the top ones become announcers/commentators and that generally seem very outspoken. Even "good guys" like Warren want the spotlight.
Sure, you've got a lot of studs at other positions that love the spotlight as well but seems that for every Ocho Cinco or Odell Beckham, there's an Andre Johnson and a Julio Jones. But with a QB, it seems ALL of the great ones have that love of the spotlight.
Sure, you've got a lot of studs at other positions that love the spotlight as well but seems that for every Ocho Cinco or Odell Beckham, there's an Andre Johnson and a Julio Jones. But with a QB, it seems ALL of the great ones have that love of the spotlight.
ROO
Tweak the offense already!
Including the play-offs, Texans were 8-0 when holding opponents to 20 or less. Savage was in a couple of those.
Shishkabob
All Pro
yea I thought his arm looked on the weaker side. all his throws 10+ yards down field outside the hashes always hung up, or were inaccurate. I will watch more of him though. if we don't take a qb in one of the 1st 2 rounds I will be highly disappointed, I expect to be disappointed.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Not a big Cutler fan, but I would favor him here based on the options.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't have to dream. I never said he'd end up here.
I'd rather him stay put in NE. If they don't trade Jimmy, that means they're keeping him. Jimmy's contract expires after next season, so they'll have to pay him a lot of money to keep him. They can't keep him and Brady both, and they're not going to keep Jimmy around just to let him walk away without compensation from some other team. Its pretty simple.
Scooter
Funky
When talking about quarterbacks I want to hear 2 words ... FEET and ACCURACY. One obviously sets up the next, but this is where throws are. We are returning JJ Watt and Kevin Johnson away from having an all-time defense, know what I want at quarterback? Chad Pennington. Drop, read, hit the window and let the talent do the rest.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I just can't wrap my head around the idea of Cutler in a Texans uniform. He would then have been given up on by two teams who really needed him to be the QB they were looking for. Some of these other guys we've been kicking around might be long on the tooth or maybe just damn near unavailable with or without injury concerns but they were held onto by their original teams for a long time specifically because they weren't believed to be the problem. Cutler has been identified as lacking twice now. I don't want him.
I don't agree with this. I have watched his games vs Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech(2015) so far. I see a guy with plenty of arm strength who makes accurate throws downfield. He isn't a guy who throws 55 yard bullets, but I don't think that's where games are won. He makes strong throws in the intermediate (10-25 yds) area from multiple platforms. Watch the 2015 Georgia Tech game. He makes a throw while rolling to his right, I think the to the tight end but maybe to Boyd. It is without setting his feet, 20 yards downfield on a rope, with perfect ball placement. You can't make that throw without adequate arm talent.
poplarbluffman
Noob
swagger
How one presents him or her self to the world. Swagger is shown from how the person handles a situation. It can also be shown in the person's walk.
Ryan: "Denzel Washington has swagger in all his movie rolls" Swagger is the alpha male others follow...IMO more then just confidence. Jameis Winston had 2 girls accuse him of rape in college, suspended because of a sexual rant in the commons, accused of stealing, fixing games..basically a worthless human but exudes alpha male. players follow him.
the opposite is true we all have watched Cutler and his mannerism...just not a leader/alpha male.. Watched Bradford at camp simply the most accurate passer I've ever seen. That comment has been used for years to describe his passing but has a very low career int %..simply too low. 3rd and 10 he will throw that 5 yard option rt to his slot wr then chance failing...
thought Christian Hackenberg was one of the worst prospects I ever evaluated based on swag or confidence...simply none. Just include it in all my player evaluations. Ram drafted Brian Quick very high in the 2nd rd and he has dominated camp every year ince but fades in games...low wonderlic/shy kid who played at Appalachian st. Small stage. Many top olinemen prospect not only have a high wonderlic but a bigger then life personality...very verbal/egotistical
looking at 2 players with similar talent I'll rank the extrovert over the introvert or the kid who played well on a big stage at a major college over the D2 kid higher
you guys would know Andre Johnson better then me..Jones just has too much talent to fail. Often see Christian(higher power) kids doing well in the NFL. Having an uncle or a cousin who played professionally really helps a young prospect stay focused. Sort of a personal" if they can do it I can too" challenge. There was a young wr prospect drafted, a great kid, oldest of maybe 5/6 kids who said his only goal was to make his 2nd contract to help his mother out financially..Kid has some talent but that's an awful goal. Winched when I read it. Kid was cut after one season. Cardale Jones when asked if he was going to have a draft party said "why I haven't accomplished anything yet". Great line.
just look at a prospect as a whole person in my evaluations..makes it more fun and IMO more accurate
poplarbluffman
Noob
from St Louis 1st comparison I thought of was Kurt Warner when watching Peterman fearless in the pocket, same body type throws in tight window..that 1st td was Warner
I like BO as person and wanted him to do well, but after watching him all season my question to you is what are his strengths that OB should be playing to?
I see a guy that has poor mechanics, poor accuracy, can't see the field, panics under pressure and is highly error prone because of it. What should OB do game plan wise to fix that?
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Well unless you count him charging the field at a HS game to brawl with HS kids after his brother got late hit in a game.
Emotion is good, but this kid appears to have zero control and that isn't good.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Brock was 6-0 this year when the defense gave up 20 or less. Savage was 2-0.
poplarbluffman
Noob
not sure charging the field after after seeing my brother hurt on a late hit is a bad thing or a good thing....
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
So, are these Brock and Savage dudes available to us? LOL
We need rid of Brock, O'Brine and Rick Smith. Get a real head coach and OC. Or, if we keep the HC, get a real OC. Let butt-chin roam the sidelines and look stern and stay out of everyone's way. I, for one, would most certainly miss his wonderfully insightful post game interviews.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Does Peterman have the strongest arm in the draft? No. Is it strong enough for the NFL? Plenty, I think. Not worried about that at all. I've seen him make plenty of NFL throws, even more than some of the highest rated guys in this class.
This swagger thing is goofy to me. Coming from a coach, most guys with "swagger" are full of sh*t and exude fake confidence because they are insecure. When the chips are down they won't come through. They are the first to beat their chest for just doing their job and also the first to blame other people for their mistakes. Being accused of rape in college means that you have "swagger" and people will follow you? That's ridiculous. People follow Winston because he takes command of the huddle, makes plays for his team, and puts the heat on himself anytime someone makes a mistake. His teammates trust him because he makes them more confident. That's called leadership, and it has nothing to do with how much "swagger" he has.
The key is confidence, which some of y'all seem to be confusing with swagger, but they are not the same thing. You don't have to act like an alpha male to have confidence in yourself. Guys like Brady and Peyton never had swagger. They didn't dominate a room just with their presence. But they had a quiet confidence and when they spoke people knew they better listen up.
This swagger thing is goofy to me. Coming from a coach, most guys with "swagger" are full of sh*t and exude fake confidence because they are insecure. When the chips are down they won't come through. They are the first to beat their chest for just doing their job and also the first to blame other people for their mistakes. Being accused of rape in college means that you have "swagger" and people will follow you? That's ridiculous. People follow Winston because he takes command of the huddle, makes plays for his team, and puts the heat on himself anytime someone makes a mistake. His teammates trust him because he makes them more confident. That's called leadership, and it has nothing to do with how much "swagger" he has.
The key is confidence, which some of y'all seem to be confusing with swagger, but they are not the same thing. You don't have to act like an alpha male to have confidence in yourself. Guys like Brady and Peyton never had swagger. They didn't dominate a room just with their presence. But they had a quiet confidence and when they spoke people knew they better listen up.
I don't think it's necessarily anything specific to Osweiler. There are just things you do to help any QB, especially an inexperienced one.
If he's a rhythm thrower, which I'm leaning to believe, you have to get him into a rhythm. Screens, quick outs, slants. Then you add in your complimentary routes, stack your receivers to get free releases, bunch them up to confuse man coverage, motion to dictate coverage.
& the up tempo thing, the team seems to play better when they speed it up. Doesn't matter if it's Brock or Savage.
Godsey/O'Brien did all these things at one time or another & their QB (either Brock or Savage) looked good. But there would be long stretches where we couldn't run the ball, receivers can't get open, we can't get first downs & the offense stalls.
I watched our Tennessee game @ NRG last night. Brock opened the game looking like the guy we thought he would be. Tennessee makes adjustments at the half & we can't get started again.
Same thing happened in several other games & I don't think Tom Savage would have made enough difference, especially not after four or five games when there's film on him.
I said it before & I'm sure there are some that wishes I don't say it again. But we should have been up 21-17 at the half vs New England Saturday.
The TD pass CjF mistimed. The one in the back of the end zone CjF couldn't secure (yeah, Brock could have thrown a better pass, but the one he threw should have been caught). Then on the same possession the one Will Fuller should have caught (same as before, Brock could've thrown a better ball, but the one he threw should have been caught).
Then the bootleg CjF did catch. That's 21 points.
Then the TD bomb that went through Fuller's hands that could have kept us in the game, that's 4 TDs we should have scored against the #1 scoring defense in the league.
That's not to say I think we found our QB... I'm just saying that's a pretty strong game for anybody. & yes, if we were up 28-27 mid way through the third, those 3 INTs most likely don't happen. Our defense is probably still teeing off on Brady.
poplarbluffman
Noob
swagger vs confidence "to-may-to vs to-mah-to" lets call the hole thing off. not worth splitting hairs over also from a long time coach...either one accepts personality plays a major role in a prospects future success or one doesn't...feel like Gulliver in the land of Lilliput debating which side of an egg to break
MistaRed
Rookie
Wasnt completely sold on him but im intrigued now
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I'm starting to lean towards the idea of the throwing 2nd and 3rd round picks at the problem till someone unexpectedly flashes extremely positive potential ala Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Of course personality plays a major role in development, perhaps even a bigger role than athletic ability.
But being accused or rape in college has no positive correlation to leadership ability in the NFL. That's a ridiculous assertion.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
A legal adult charging onto the field to brawl with high school kids during the middle of a game is not a good thing. Let's not make excuses for it.
If Watt gets late hit at a game I do not anticipate his brothers to charge onto the field and attempt to fight the other team. Why? Because they are mature adults.
There's no question if Fuller and CJ make those catches its a different game, but Im thinking of the season as a whole. Here's the issue with BO in IMO, he's wildly inaccurate on down field throws - yes he'll make some beautiful throws at times (like the one to Fuller) but more often than not most of them are uncatchable. Effectively opposing defenses don't have to honor the deep ball at all. You can then bring more defenders in the box which does 2 things, makes it difficult to run and requires a higher degree of accuracy on short and intermediate routes - which we know isn't his strong suit. You can also blitz him with regularity as his inaccuracy makes it difficult for him to make defenses pay for bringing pressure, and we know he gets flustered and has a penchant for making really bad decisions. He also fails to read the field well, to me it looks like he looks at his first read and if it's not there he goes immediately to short check down routes. I can remember one play in the 3rd where Fuller had 2 steps on his man but BO tried to force a ball to CJ that should have been picked. He's had multiple games with 40 or more attempts with 200 or fewer yards passing. I just feel like he has too may deficiencies to make up for with play calling.
But we're taking about a game where he should have had 4 TD passes against the #1 scoring defense.
I think that is good evidence to support play calling being a big help.
The he started the Titans game @NRG strong. Two 70 yard TD drives & a field goal. He started the Detroit game strong. & I still think he had a good game against Green Bay.
None of this is to say I think he should be our starter, only that play calling was a big factor.
Watching him play in Denver last season he threw the ball downfield much more frequently & more accurately as well. He even threw it better here, in the preseason & the first few weeks of the season.
& I'm not denying he has several real issues.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Any thoughts on Matt Barkley replacing Tom Savage or Weeden?
He's definitely functional at times, there's just been no consistency, and if you asked me what his strengths are, I couldn't really tell you. That's a scary thing for your starting QB.
And for the record we have numerous issues on O, a terrible RT side and I think Miller has been just OK. Add all that together and you get out craptastic offense. Some issues are just too tough to overcome from a scheme perspective.
I think the Texans have come out several times with good game plans but opposing teams will make adjustments. When you have glaring deficiencies in your abilities it's not hard to start forcing you to do what you're not good at (if that makes sense)
banned1976
sleeper mode
So it looks like this thread has turned into Brock versus O'Brien; who's fault is it that the Texans didn't go further than they did. Let me see if I can settle this dispute. They are both mediocre, at best, at what they do. So is Rick Smith. That is why this team is a 9-7 team until they prove otherwise. 9-7 isn't going to win the AFC South forever. They need to improve or they need to go.