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What is Watson's value in a trade?

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Playing a season to tank is shows disrespect for every player and coach on the team and every fan in the stadium and is no way to instill competition and a badly needed new image for this organization. It’s just incomprehensible.
That's a very pollyannaish take. This is a team coming off a 4-12 season, losing more talent than it's taking in. Little cap space even after dumping contracts and restructuring others. No picks in the initial 2 rounds of the draft. A rookie head coach and GM. Any expectations other than a top 3 pick in 2022 are laughable.

Every player and coach coming into this organization knew the score. And they all signed up for it. Any educated fan knows what is coming. Not admitting that shows disrespect for logic, reason, and general football knowledge. Can you comprehend that?
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
Playing a season to tank is shows disrespect for every player and coach on the team and every fan in the stadium and is no way to instill competition and a badly needed new image for this organization. It’s just incomprehensible.
I think it is just going to come natural.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
@CloakNNNdagger KNOWS, more so than most. If this were the stock market CND would be guilty of insider trading.
Wow. My opinion of Caserio so far is he has been a complete and utter failure in more ways than one.
Oh where to start. Being a busy body does not mean one knows his job, it could also be an exercise in futility. It could be he is just doing his job badly or worse than most. History alone suggest that being a Belichick clerk is a recipe for failure, there have been so many. Only a few weeks ago Bob Kraft was throwing Caserio under the bus for 5 years of bad drafting. We also learned that the Patriot Way without Tom Brady is kind of average and ordinary at best.

First thing out of the gate, Caserio said no college coaches would not be part of the hiring process. That is tunnel vision and limits scope and field for good coaches. Caserio's idea and answer was to hire a 65 yr old journeyman coach who has never been a HC or a coordinator. Culley's previous gig was QB coach and passing game coordinator who presided over the worst passing game in the NFL.

In answer to you your "laying the foundation" it is already a given that Culley will only be here a year or two at most. That means a new HC and new coordinators. So much for that foundation, not much of a foundation in my book, it's missing the rebar. A foundation crack is inevitable and a set back. Another start over in 2022 or 2023 is inevitable. Your newly established D and O is already kaput, it's already a start over and a set back.

All the commotion and activity by Caserio early on has been the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Releasing JJ and trading Cooks is how you clean up the salary cap to the tune of $27MM worth. Getting a 2nd RD for Cooks is how you build draft capital. Cooks is a FA after 2022. Better to trade a year early than a year late. That's Basic GM 101. Caserio restructured his contract but Cooks is still FA after 2022 and Texans dead money in 2023. SMDH.

Restructuring (5) contracts that borrows $30MM from 2022 and 2023 salary caps IS NOT getting your salary cap in order. IT IS BEING FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE, that is what IT IS! Restructuring 1 or 2 contracts may make some sense for a playoff team but NOT for a team REBUILDING. CERTAINLY NOT 5. Shows a strong lack of common sense, logical thinking and a basic lack of understanding of economics and finance. This may have be Nick's most egregious FUBARS in his short time as the Titanic's deck manager.

Trading away a 4th RD pick for an over the hill OL with a $7MM cap hit who was GOING TO GET CUT anyways and a FA in 2 years is an EXERCISE IN STUPIDITY. Trading valuable draft capital in a REBUILDING year where you have NO 1st or 2nd RD draft picks for a backup QB who was GOING TO BE CUT anyways only compounds that stupidity. So you say the Texans would not have been able to sign them if they didn't trade for them. One thing we agree on, IT"S A REBUILDING YEAR so not signing an over the hill OL and backup QB, IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S A REBUILDING YEAR. It was only an exercise of WASTING salary cap space and draft capital.

THE PURPOSE OF REBUILDING IS NOT TO TRY AND WIN ENOUGH GAMES TO BE OUT OF THE TOP 10 in the draft. THE PURPOSE OF REBUIDING IS TO SUCK FOR HOWELL. ANY QUESTIONS SEE THE JAGS AND JETS. HERE IS A GIVEN, EVERYBODY IN THE FOOTBALL UNIVERSE EXPECTS THE TEXANS TO GO 0 AND 17. DON'T DISAPPOINT THEM!

Please notice that my critique of Nick Caserio had absolutely nothing to do DW4. That's a discussion for another day. Next time Caserio offers up some Kool Aid, it would be best to abstain, don't drink it. It makes you think he is a genius and ready for the Hall of Fame. :)

Nick Caserio is behaving exactly in a way I would expect a Bill Belichick clerk to behave.
That's a good bingo and only his first strike. By my count Nick has already struck out twice.
What does any of this have to do with DW4's trade value?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Oh where to start. Being a busy body does not mean one knows his job, it could also be an exercise in futility. It could be he is just doing his job badly or worse than most. History alone suggest that being a Belichick clerk is a recipe for failure, there have been so many. Only a few weeks ago Bob Kraft was throwing Caserio under the bus for 5 years of bad drafting. We also learned that the Patriot Way without Tom Brady is kind of average and ordinary at best.

First thing out of the gate, Caserio said no college coaches would not be part of the hiring process. That is tunnel vision and limits scope and field for good coaches. Caserio's idea and answer was to hire a 65 yr old journeyman coach who has never been a HC or a coordinator. Culley's previous gig was QB coach and passing game coordinator who presided over the worst passing game in the NFL.

In answer to you your "laying the foundation" it is already a given that Culley will only be here a year or two at most. That means a new HC and new coordinators. So much for that foundation, not much of a foundation in my book, it's missing the rebar. A foundation crack is inevitable and a set back. Another start over in 2022 or 2023 is inevitable. Your newly established D and O is already kaput, it's already a start over and a set back.

All the commotion and activity by Caserio early on has been the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Releasing JJ and trading Cooks is how you clean up the salary cap to the tune of $27MM worth. Getting a 2nd RD for Cooks is how you build draft capital. Cooks is a FA after 2022. Better to trade a year early than a year late. That's Basic GM 101. Caserio restructured his contract but Cooks is still FA after 2022 and Texans dead money in 2023. SMDH.

Restructuring (5) contracts that borrows $30MM from 2022 and 2023 salary caps IS NOT getting your salary cap in order. IT IS BEING FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE, that is what IT IS! Restructuring 1 or 2 contracts may make some sense for a playoff team but NOT for a team REBUILDING. CERTAINLY NOT 5. Shows a strong lack of common sense, logical thinking and a basic lack of understanding of economics and finance. This may have be Nick's most egregious FUBARS in his short time as the Titanic's deck manager.

Trading away a 4th RD pick for an over the hill OL with a $7MM cap hit who was GOING TO GET CUT anyways and a FA in 2 years is an EXERCISE IN STUPIDITY. Trading valuable draft capital in a REBUILDING year where you have NO 1st or 2nd RD draft picks for a backup QB who was GOING TO BE CUT anyways only compounds that stupidity. So you say the Texans would not have been able to sign them if they didn't trade for them. One thing we agree on, IT"S A REBUILDING YEAR so not signing an over the hill OL and backup QB, IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S A REBUILDING YEAR. It was only an exercise of WASTING salary cap space and draft capital.

THE PURPOSE OF REBUILDING IS NOT TO TRY AND WIN ENOUGH GAMES TO BE OUT OF THE TOP 10 in the draft. THE PURPOSE OF REBUIDING IS TO SUCK FOR HOWELL. ANY QUESTIONS SEE THE JAGS AND JETS. HERE IS A GIVEN, EVERYBODY IN THE FOOTBALL UNIVERSE EXPECTS THE TEXANS TO GO 0 AND 17. DON'T DISAPPOINT THEM!

Please notice that my critique of Nick Caserio had absolutely nothing to do DW4. That's a discussion for another day. Next time Caserio offers up some Kool Aid, it would be best to abstain, don't drink it. It makes you think he is a genius and ready for the Hall of Fame. :)

Nick Caserio is behaving exactly in a way I would expect a Bill Belichick clerk to behave.
A lot of typing and what this really comes down to is if they find their QB either in this draft or the 2022 draft none of the things you typed will matter. I'm hoping they can find a couple of above avg starters this draft and load up in the 2022 draft.

They will have plenty of cap space available next offseason.

Not saying I agree with everything Caserio has done.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Culley and his staff are sacrificial lambs in this rebuilding project.
Not sure you can even call it a rebuilding effort. In a year or two you will have a new HC and whole new coaching staff. What do you call that? A rebuilding rebuilding effort?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Not sure you can even call it a rebuilding effort. In a year or two you will have a new HC and whole new coaching staff. What do you call that? A rebuilding rebuilding effort?
I call this time to get players in place for the next regime to become successful.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
I don't think HC and GM go anywhere next year, although there probably will be some turnover underneath the HC. Next year is when the rebuild begins, not this year. This year they're just trading our old junk for someone else's junk they're familiar with. Considering everything it's not really a bad move. It's not like a real rebuild starts until they can draft a high pick anyway.
 

SnakeEyes

Veteran
Oh where to start. Being a busy body does not mean one knows his job, it could also be an exercise in futility. It could be he is just doing his job badly or worse than most. History alone suggest that being a Belichick clerk is a recipe for failure, there have been so many. Only a few weeks ago Bob Kraft was throwing Caserio under the bus for 5 years of bad drafting. We also learned that the Patriot Way without Tom Brady is kind of average and ordinary at best.

First thing out of the gate, Caserio said no college coaches would not be part of the hiring process. That is tunnel vision and limits scope and field for good coaches. Caserio's idea and answer was to hire a 65 yr old journeyman coach who has never been a HC or a coordinator. Culley's previous gig was QB coach and passing game coordinator who presided over the worst passing game in the NFL.

In answer to you your "laying the foundation" it is already a given that Culley will only be here a year or two at most. That means a new HC and new coordinators. So much for that foundation, not much of a foundation in my book, it's missing the rebar. A foundation crack is inevitable and a set back. Another start over in 2022 or 2023 is inevitable. Your newly established D and O is already kaput, it's already a start over and a set back.

All the commotion and activity by Caserio early on has been the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Releasing JJ and trading Cooks is how you clean up the salary cap to the tune of $27MM worth. Getting a 2nd RD for Cooks is how you build draft capital. Cooks is a FA after 2022. Better to trade a year early than a year late. That's Basic GM 101. Caserio restructured his contract but Cooks is still FA after 2022 and Texans dead money in 2023. SMDH.

Restructuring (5) contracts that borrows $30MM from 2022 and 2023 salary caps IS NOT getting your salary cap in order. IT IS BEING FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE, that is what IT IS! Restructuring 1 or 2 contracts may make some sense for a playoff team but NOT for a team REBUILDING. CERTAINLY NOT 5. Shows a strong lack of common sense, logical thinking and a basic lack of understanding of economics and finance. This may have be Nick's most egregious FUBARS in his short time as the Titanic's deck manager.

Trading away a 4th RD pick for an over the hill OL with a $7MM cap hit who was GOING TO GET CUT anyways and a FA in 2 years is an EXERCISE IN STUPIDITY. Trading valuable draft capital in a REBUILDING year where you have NO 1st or 2nd RD draft picks for a backup QB who was GOING TO BE CUT anyways only compounds that stupidity. So you say the Texans would not have been able to sign them if they didn't trade for them. One thing we agree on, IT"S A REBUILDING YEAR so not signing an over the hill OL and backup QB, IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S A REBUILDING YEAR. It was only an exercise of WASTING salary cap space and draft capital.

THE PURPOSE OF REBUILDING IS NOT TO TRY AND WIN ENOUGH GAMES TO BE OUT OF THE TOP 10 in the draft. THE PURPOSE OF REBUIDING IS TO SUCK FOR HOWELL. ANY QUESTIONS SEE THE JAGS AND JETS. HERE IS A GIVEN, EVERYBODY IN THE FOOTBALL UNIVERSE EXPECTS THE TEXANS TO GO 0 AND 17. DON'T DISAPPOINT THEM!

Please notice that my critique of Nick Caserio had absolutely nothing to do DW4. That's a discussion for another day. Next time Caserio offers up some Kool Aid, it would be best to abstain, don't drink it. It makes you think he is a genius and ready for the Hall of Fame. :)

Nick Caserio is behaving exactly in a way I would expect a Bill Belichick clerk to behave.
Minus Culley, the coaches are good.

Nick has shown the ability to do things that others have not had the guts to in Houston. You made some remarks that are valid and others that are far from. Only 1 player signed do we know was going to be released. Seeing it could be a good fit, I'll take it. The question about Cooks is simply he is a good WR when healthy. He is under contract for a decent amount and will be retained for 2022-2023 if he plays well this year. Meaning to move him would be a mistake. You don't get rid of one of the top weapons for your QB.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
So neither the Panthers, the Broncos, and most of all the Dolphins took a QB in last nights first round of the 2021 NFL Draft leaving the door open for the Texans to potentially trade DW4 to any of those teams in the coming weeks and/or months assuming Watson reaches a settlement in the lawsuits with the plaintiffs.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Culley and his staff are sacrificial lambs in this rebuilding project.
Yep. Well paid sacrificial lambs, but sacrificial lambs nonetheless.

And the coaching before this regime wasn’t?
From a purely objective point of view, O'Brien had 5 winning seasons and 4 AFC South division titles.

Hate the man all you want, but in the NFL the only thing that ultimately matters is wins and losses.

O'Brien was not some raving success, but he's been the best HC of the Texans so far when you compare his .520 Win % against Kubiak's .488 Win % and 2 playoff appearances as Texans HC.

Actually this staff might be way better, you guys have to allow them to coach this team first before dooming them a failure.
Sure. But you'd have to be delusional not to admit that they might be way worse, as well.

btw, I did not predict anything. I just said the current staff is lackluster. Read anything into it more than that and you're just making stuff up in your head. :howdy:
 

SnakeEyes

Veteran
Yep. Well paid sacrificial lambs, but sacrificial lambs nonetheless.



From a purely objective point of view, O'Brien had 5 winning seasons and 4 AFC South division titles.

Hate the man all you want, but in the NFL the only thing that ultimately matters is wins and losses.

O'Brien was not some raving success, but he's been the best HC of the Texans so far when you compare his .520 Win % against Kubiak's .488 Win % and 2 playoff appearances as Texans HC.



Sure. But you'd have to be delusional not to admit that they might be way worse, as well.

btw, I did not predict anything. I just said the current staff is lackluster. Read anything into it more than that and you're just making stuff up in your head. :howdy:
Actually, the current staff on paper is better than what we have had. With the exception of Culley who could have just needed a HC job to show he is good. Then again, he might not be.

Pep is a very good QBs coach. Our OL coach is one of the best around. I have read articles of how respected he is. Lovie Smith is a very good coach. He has been to the SB, not won, but he got there. His D is no question about it good... with the right personal. Kelly, not sure what to think. Was he even calling plays or was that OB? Game day choice of play and gameplan was OB. That was the talking point of the forums. Kelly may have helped with the plan, however it was OB going for it on 4th and 3 as an example.

So when you break it down. Pep, Lovie and the OL coach are solid. Culley is we have to wait and see. And Kelly is an unknown that if he was going with OB calls he might be fine. If he was making the call then it would be bad. I do remember that OB was told to use an OC at one point. Seems odd to me that when he was...the calls were almost exactly what OB called when he was the HC/OC. My guess is that Kelly was a show peice so OB looked to be following what he was told. When in reality he was still calling everything.

Pep:


Campen


Lovie


Culley


Kelly


And the 1 thing each one has is a good win/loss ratio and they are teachers forst and foremost. Something very important to keep in mind and a good reason to feel positive that players are going to be very well taught what to do in every situation.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
Actually, the current staff on paper is better than what we have had. With the exception of Culley who could have just needed a HC job to show he is good. Then again, he might not be.

Pep is a very good QBs coach. Our OL coach is one of the best around. I have read articles of how respected he is. Lovie Smith is a very good coach. He has been to the SB, not won, but he got there. His D is no question about it good... with the right personal. Kelly, not sure what to think. Was he even calling plays or was that OB? Game day choice of play and gameplan was OB. That was the talking point of the forums. Kelly may have helped with the plan, however it was OB going for it on 4th and 3 as an example.

So when you break it down. Pep, Lovie and the OL coach are solid. Culley is we have to wait and see. And Kelly is an unknown that if he was going with OB calls he might be fine. If he was making the call then it would be bad. I do remember that OB was told to use an OC at one point. Seems odd to me that when he was...the calls were almost exactly what OB called when he was the HC/OC. My guess is that Kelly was a show peice so OB looked to be following what he was told. When in reality he was still calling everything.

Pep:


Campen


Lovie


Culley


Kelly


And the 1 thing each one has is a good win/loss ratio and they are teachers forst and foremost. Something very important to keep in mind and a good reason to feel positive that players are going to be very well taught what to do in every situation.
If O'Brien was using Kelly as a shield as you said and I also believe, it is not surprising that Bill would block other teams. I'm not sure also if other teams wanting Tim Kelly makes me slide into my disco shoes any easier.
 

House of Pain

May never see it
I'm kinda surprised by the people that want to bury this coaching staff and general manager before this team has played a game in 2021. Are there people on here that truly believe that BoB, RAC, Kelly or Weaver got the 'best' out of any of the players on the roster last year? We, as fans, could see the writing on the wall and we didn't even have to risk our bodies or livelihood on following orders and plays drawn up by this group of blind mice at their respective helms. Of course they would play uninspired...after all they aren't robots and not all of them are that dumb.

Just like with everything else, I'm going to wait and see what the results of the games are before I have a take. I had a take with the previous regime because I saw enough games to realize that nothing was going to change. FWIW it was like watching Robocop (Robocop 2) when they gave him 300 new prime directives and he couldn't operate. Everything about the last regime screamed that BoB had all the responsibility and took ZERO accountability when things went wrong. It was like he told them to hold your fellow players strictly liable for any issues they had and then handle the guy in charge with kid gloves...made no sense and it was a distraction to the players (I would imagine).

It's early but it looks like the Texans finally have a plan. Hire a GM and let him make the football decisions. Bring in coaches and players that are good teachers and let younger players see how you act like a professional. Let the older coaches (Culley, Pep, Lovie, Campen, etc.) show the up and coming coaches (Kelly and McCown) how to operate and when they are ready, promote them. If they aren't capable, cut bait and bring in other coaches that are going to fit into the organization that has been constructed. Until you get some high draft picks, build the lines of the team and create a lot of depth at all positions and instill discipline and a concept of teamwork. When we get the skill players we lack, they will conform to the team, instead of the other way around.

Will it work? I have no clue. This team has "Houston" on their jersey so I'm guessing it won't, but AT LEAST I can see what they're TRYING to do. Other teams do this and have success. Might as well give it a try.

I don't know if Culley is going to be any good at coaching, but it appears he's going to let his coaches coach and get out of the way. As long as he's good at clock management and managing his coaches and players, he should do just fine. I am worried that they have kept Kelly in his position, but I think Pep is probably going to have a large say in what the offense is doing. To bury Culley because has never been a coordinator in today's NFL is kinda silly. The HC doesn't need to be good at X's and O's if he's good in other areas.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Minus Culley, the coaches are good.

Nick has shown the ability to do things that others have not had the guts to in Houston. You made some remarks that are valid and others that are far from. Only 1 player signed do we know was going to be released. Seeing it could be a good fit, I'll take it. The question about Cooks is simply he is a good WR when healthy. He is under contract for a decent amount and will be retained for 2022-2023 if he plays well this year. Meaning to move him would be a mistake. You don't get rid of one of the top weapons for your QB.
So what kind of coach will want to come into a new situation and not want to hire his own coaching staff. That's a recipe for continued HC nightmares.

Showing the ability to do things others have not had the guts to do may be an exercise in stupidity. Doing what others would not do doesn't make it right.

Cooks will be re-signed? You don't know that. He could walk after 2022. No self respecting responsible GM will want to sign a 30 year old WR to a long term contract.

Cannon and Finley were both on the chopping block.

In the world of rebuilding, trading Cooks and getting a $10MM relief in salary cap and a 2nd RD draft pick is the proper way to rebuild. Restructuring his contract where the Texans have $5MM in dead money in 2023 and Cooks is playing somewhere else is not how you rebuild. It's a classic study of what not to do. Some people know how to rebuild, some people do not.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I'm kinda surprised by the people that want to bury this coaching staff and general manager before this team has played a game in 2021. Are there people on here that truly believe that BoB, RAC, Kelly or Weaver got the 'best' out of any of the players on the roster last year? We, as fans, could see the writing on the wall and we didn't even have to risk our bodies or livelihood on following orders and plays drawn up by this group of blind mice at their respective helms. Of course they would play uninspired...after all they aren't robots and not all of them are that dumb.

Just like with everything else, I'm going to wait and see what the results of the games are before I have a take. I had a take with the previous regime because I saw enough games to realize that nothing was going to change. FWIW it was like watching Robocop (Robocop 2) when they gave him 300 new prime directives and he couldn't operate. Everything about the last regime screamed that BoB had all the responsibility and took ZERO accountability when things went wrong. It was like he told them to hold your fellow players strictly liable for any issues they had and then handle the guy in charge with kid gloves...made no sense and it was a distraction to the players (I would imagine).

It's early but it looks like the Texans finally have a plan. Hire a GM and let him make the football decisions. Bring in coaches and players that are good teachers and let younger players see how you act like a professional. Let the older coaches (Culley, Pep, Lovie, Campen, etc.) show the up and coming coaches (Kelly and McCown) how to operate and when they are ready, promote them. If they aren't capable, cut bait and bring in other coaches that are going to fit into the organization that has been constructed. Until you get some high draft picks, build the lines of the team and create a lot of depth at all positions and instill discipline and a concept of teamwork. When we get the skill players we lack, they will conform to the team, instead of the other way around.

Will it work? I have no clue. This team has "Houston" on their jersey so I'm guessing it won't, but AT LEAST I can see what they're TRYING to do. Other teams do this and have success. Might as well give it a try.

I don't know if Culley is going to be any good at coaching, but it appears he's going to let his coaches coach and get out of the way. As long as he's good at clock management and managing his coaches and players, he should do just fine. I am worried that they have kept Kelly in his position, but I think Pep is probably going to have a large say in what the offense is doing. To bury Culley because has never been a coordinator in today's NFL is kinda silly. The HC doesn't need to be good at X's and O's if he's good in other areas.
Some people knew Bill O'Brien would be a very bad choice for Texans head coach before O'Brien was ever hired.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'm kinda surprised by the people that want to bury this coaching staff and general manager before this team has played a game in 2021. Are there people on here that truly believe that BoB, RAC, Kelly or Weaver got the 'best' out of any of the players on the roster last year? We, as fans, could see the writing on the wall and we didn't even have to risk our bodies or livelihood on following orders and plays drawn up by this group of blind mice at their respective helms. Of course they would play uninspired...after all they aren't robots and not all of them are that dumb.

Just like with everything else, I'm going to wait and see what the results of the games are before I have a take. I had a take with the previous regime because I saw enough games to realize that nothing was going to change. FWIW it was like watching Robocop (Robocop 2) when they gave him 300 new prime directives and he couldn't operate. Everything about the last regime screamed that BoB had all the responsibility and took ZERO accountability when things went wrong. It was like he told them to hold your fellow players strictly liable for any issues they had and then handle the guy in charge with kid gloves...made no sense and it was a distraction to the players (I would imagine).

It's early but it looks like the Texans finally have a plan. Hire a GM and let him make the football decisions. Bring in coaches and players that are good teachers and let younger players see how you act like a professional. Let the older coaches (Culley, Pep, Lovie, Campen, etc.) show the up and coming coaches (Kelly and McCown) how to operate and when they are ready, promote them. If they aren't capable, cut bait and bring in other coaches that are going to fit into the organization that has been constructed. Until you get some high draft picks, build the lines of the team and create a lot of depth at all positions and instill discipline and a concept of teamwork. When we get the skill players we lack, they will conform to the team, instead of the other way around.

Will it work? I have no clue. This team has "Houston" on their jersey so I'm guessing it won't, but AT LEAST I can see what they're TRYING to do. Other teams do this and have success. Might as well give it a try.

I don't know if Culley is going to be any good at coaching, but it appears he's going to let his coaches coach and get out of the way. As long as he's good at clock management and managing his coaches and players, he should do just fine. I am worried that they have kept Kelly in his position, but I think Pep is probably going to have a large say in what the offense is doing. To bury Culley because has never been a coordinator in today's NFL is kinda silly. The HC doesn't need to be good at X's and O's if he's good in other areas.
Spot on!
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Actually, the current staff on paper is better than what we have had. With the exception of Culley who could have just needed a HC job to show he is good. Then again, he might not be.
I always respect y'all's opinions. And "on paper", sure. :ok:

But, ultimately what it comes down to is results. And I personally do not fault anyone for being skeptical of the Houston Texans right now.

By the same token, it doesn't bother me at all if folks are giddy and enthusiastic about the potential, regardless if I don't necessarily share it.

I just feel like I've seen this movie before, so until they do something and earn the respect, I just can't fake being a happy, shiny fan. YMMV.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I always respect y'all's opinions. And "on paper", sure. :ok:

But, ultimately what it comes down to is results. And I personally do not fault anyone for being skeptical of the Houston Texans right now.

By the same token, it doesn't bother me at all if folks are giddy and enthusiastic about the potential, regardless if I don't necessarily share it.

I just feel like I've seen this movie before, so until they do something and earn the respect, I just can't fake being a happy, shiny fan. YMMV.
But the thing is how can you get results when we don’t have any data to start with. Meaning here with the Texans. The only coach we have Texans data on is Kelly. My thing is we have to get some games played with this new regime to see where we’re at. Maybe the first 8 games.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
But the thing is how can you get results when we don’t have any data to start with. Meaning here with the Texans. The only coach we have Texans data on is Kelly. My thing is we have to get some games played with this new regime to see where we’re at. Maybe the first 8 games.
When you have been a serious NFL fan for over 50 years you get a sense of what is going to happen before it does. It's like Belichick clerks, you know there is a very high probability there is a strong chance of failure. And before you even try to go there, Caserio is no Nick Saban. Caserio is much more like Scott Pioli. And if Bob Kraft is throwing you under the bus for having to spend $200MM in FA because of 5 years of your bad drafts you kinda of know things are going to be worse than they already are. I gotta say the Pats 2021 draft is off to a heck of start with Caserio out of the Pats picture.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
From a purely objective point of view, O'Brien had 5 winning seasons and 4 AFC South division titles.

Hate the man all you want, but in the NFL the only thing that ultimately matters is wins and losses.

O'Brien was not some raving success, but he's been the best HC of the Texans so far when you compare his .520 Win % against Kubiak's .488 Win % and 2 playoff appearances as Texans HC.
Out of curiosity, who do you think is a better coach, Gruden or Dungy?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
When you have been a serious NFL fan for over 50 years you get a sense of what is going to happen before it does. It's like Belichick clerks, you know there is a very high probability there is a strong chance of failure. And before you even try to go there, Caserio is no Nick Saban. Caserio is much more like Scott Pioli. And if Bob Kraft is throwing you under the bus for having to spend $200MM in FA because of 5 years of your bad drafts you kinda of know things are going to be worse than they already are. I gotta say the Pats 2021 draft is off to a heck of start with Caserio out of the Pats picture.
We’re all serious fans on here and I’ve been a fan over 40 years. Kraft is bitter because he bounced on them and he really didn’t want Nick coming to Houston. Thus the reason for the crap he pulled when we tried to acquire him a few years ago.

Man stop it dude didn’t spend 200 MM in FA. What he did do was unF what Bill O’Brien did as a GM as well as add in a competitive bunch at every position.

And I’m sorry you’re just guessing and being a pessimist because he’s not moving like you wanted him to or you just didn’t like the addition of Nick Caserio.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I always respect y'all's opinions. And "on paper", sure. :ok:

But, ultimately what it comes down to is results. And I personally do not fault anyone for being skeptical of the Houston Texans right now.

By the same token, it doesn't bother me at all if folks are giddy and enthusiastic about the potential, regardless if I don't necessarily share it.

I just feel like I've seen this movie before, so until they do something and earn the respect, I just can't fake being a happy, shiny fan. YMMV.
Well said.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
But the thing is how can you get results when we don’t have any data to start with. Meaning here with the Texans. The only coach we have Texans data on is Kelly. My thing is we have to get some games played with this new regime to see where we’re at. Maybe the first 8 games.
Yep. This is why I give them the benefit of the doubt but framed with my natural skepticism. Ultimately, we don't know until we know.

I'll be honest here (as always): I have an inherent distrust of Texans ownership.

While I'd like to believe that they are actually giving Caserio full 'traditional GM' powers and latitudes, the franchise history reveals the opposite. And after two decades, I see no reason to drink the McNair koolaid. They are who they are. Zebras can't change their stripes.

Out of curiosity, who do you think is a better coach, Gruden or Dungy?
As Bucs HC, Gruden.

Overall, Dungy.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Yep. This is why I give them the benefit of the doubt but framed with my natural skepticism. Ultimately, we don't know until we know.

I'll be honest here (as always): I have an inherent distrust of Texans ownership.

While I'd like to believe that they are actually giving Caserio full 'traditional GM' powers and latitudes, the franchise history reveals the opposite. And after two decades, I see no reason to drink the McNair koolaid. They are who they are. Zebras can't change their stripes.



As Bucs HC, Gruden.

Overall, Dungy.
DB why can’t I post photos or screenshots now?
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
But the thing is how can you get results when we don’t have any data to start with. Meaning here with the Texans. The only coach we have Texans data on is Kelly. My thing is we have to get some games played with this new regime to see where we’re at. Maybe the first 8 games.
There is data. Do you not see who the players are on this team?

**** it! Texans and Lions in the SB.
 

SnakeEyes

Veteran
See post #1098
You mean YOUR post that is just as much speculation as facts? Such as the part about trading Cooks. How do you know Cooks is not going to be here next season? You don't. I agree with you about Culley. Yet we will not know if you are right or wrong until the team plays a real game. Making that statement a shot in the dark guess. Again I agree with you but you have to let him show it either way. And who hired him...Cal. Nick was involved with the choice but he was hired to be personal not hire Culley. Remember we had a GM and HC search that Cal was running. As soon as Nick got here he said he was going to get to work on the roster. NOT on the HC hunt.

As for reworking 5 deals, you look at it like it is not normal. When it happens daily in every city with a sports team that has a cap. Plus, if you release them or trade them the hit is less if at all. It was also done based on the cap increase for next year. If you have 20mil as an example and back load 20mil in redone deals you have 40mil. Add in the cap increase and the odds that 1 at least will be gone and you will not owe anything. Making 20mil turn to 15mil plus again add in the cap increase. You honestly have to believe Whit is going to explode from his decline and get 20 sacks. Then you will have to keep him...but he will not. And he could be gone before TC ends if a good player is released and we sign him as a replacement.

Just saying that he was in NE he knows what Hoodie was doing. He watched and learned how to make something from nothing. How do you think Brady was getting paid so much yet they had cap space most of the time. Moving money around. People do that with bills and credit cards too. Unless you are stupid it works for them. My guess is that 2-3 players will be cut/traded/released by the start of the season. Making less this season makes the hit less. Risky to a point but if that happens it works.

I am not saying that you are 100% wrong. Just that it appears that you are putting the cart before the horse in your opinion. He would not be regarded as a very good GM candidate to most of the NFL if he was not doing something right. As he was very well respected by many teams. We just had an opportunity to get him and did. If you look at other teams that have new GMs you will see that pattern of extensions. If a player is due 1mil this year and is cut in TC they only get what they are guaranteed. The cap hit is about 50%, so it is kind of smart to redo 5 deals of players who you are very unsure can make the roster.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
You mean YOUR post that is just as much speculation as facts? Such as the part about trading Cooks. How do you know Cooks is not going to be here next season? You don't. I agree with you about Culley. Yet we will not know if you are right or wrong until the team plays a real game. Making that statement a shot in the dark guess. Again I agree with you but you have to let him show it either way. And who hired him...Cal. Nick was involved with the choice but he was hired to be personal not hire Culley. Remember we had a GM and HC search that Cal was running. As soon as Nick got here he said he was going to get to work on the roster. NOT on the HC hunt.

As for reworking 5 deals, you look at it like it is not normal. When it happens daily in every city with a sports team that has a cap. Plus, if you release them or trade them the hit is less if at all. It was also done based on the cap increase for next year. If you have 20mil as an example and back load 20mil in redone deals you have 40mil. Add in the cap increase and the odds that 1 at least will be gone and you will not owe anything. Making 20mil turn to 15mil plus again add in the cap increase. You honestly have to believe Whit is going to explode from his decline and get 20 sacks. Then you will have to keep him...but he will not. And he could be gone before TC ends if a good player is released and we sign him as a replacement.

Just saying that he was in NE he knows what Hoodie was doing. He watched and learned how to make something from nothing. How do you think Brady was getting paid so much yet they had cap space most of the time. Moving money around. People do that with bills and credit cards too. Unless you are stupid it works for them. My guess is that 2-3 players will be cut/traded/released by the start of the season. Making less this season makes the hit less. Risky to a point but if that happens it works.

I am not saying that you are 100% wrong. Just that it appears that you are putting the cart before the horse in your opinion. He would not be regarded as a very good GM candidate to most of the NFL if he was not doing something right. As he was very well respected by many teams. We just had an opportunity to get him and did. If you look at other teams that have new GMs you will see that pattern of extensions. If a player is due 1mil this year and is cut in TC they only get what they are guaranteed. The cap hit is about 50%, so it is kind of smart to redo 5 deals of players who you are very unsure can make the roster.
How come you not watching draft?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
You mean YOUR post that is just as much speculation as facts? Such as the part about trading Cooks. How do you know Cooks is not going to be here next season? You don't. I agree with you about Culley. Yet we will not know if you are right or wrong until the team plays a real game. Making that statement a shot in the dark guess. Again I agree with you but you have to let him show it either way. And who hired him...Cal. Nick was involved with the choice but he was hired to be personal not hire Culley. Remember we had a GM and HC search that Cal was running. As soon as Nick got here he said he was going to get to work on the roster. NOT on the HC hunt.

As for reworking 5 deals, you look at it like it is not normal. When it happens daily in every city with a sports team that has a cap. Plus, if you release them or trade them the hit is less if at all. It was also done based on the cap increase for next year. If you have 20mil as an example and back load 20mil in redone deals you have 40mil. Add in the cap increase and the odds that 1 at least will be gone and you will not owe anything. Making 20mil turn to 15mil plus again add in the cap increase. You honestly have to believe Whit is going to explode from his decline and get 20 sacks. Then you will have to keep him...but he will not. And he could be gone before TC ends if a good player is released and we sign him as a replacement.

Just saying that he was in NE he knows what Hoodie was doing. He watched and learned how to make something from nothing. How do you think Brady was getting paid so much yet they had cap space most of the time. Moving money around. People do that with bills and credit cards too. Unless you are stupid it works for them. My guess is that 2-3 players will be cut/traded/released by the start of the season. Making less this season makes the hit less. Risky to a point but if that happens it works.

I am not saying that you are 100% wrong. Just that it appears that you are putting the cart before the horse in your opinion. He would not be regarded as a very good GM candidate to most of the NFL if he was not doing something right. As he was very well respected by many teams. We just had an opportunity to get him and did. If you look at other teams that have new GMs you will see that pattern of extensions. If a player is due 1mil this year and is cut in TC they only get what they are guaranteed. The cap hit is about 50%, so it is kind of smart to redo 5 deals of players who you are very unsure can make the roster.
Cooks contract is up after next year. That's why you trade him, that's were the real value is. Keeping him for 2 years is a waste. Your reading and comprehension needs works as does formulating and condensing your thoughts in an understandable format. Caserio hired Culley, Cal rubber stamped it.

You're misguided and misinformed about restructuring contracts. The Texans borrowed over $30 million from 2022 and 2023 salary caps. That is fiscally irresponsible.

The rest of your post really didn't make much sense. It was rambling and impossible to follow.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
? only 57 drafted this round

Guess he only cares about the Texans picks. I'm watching and maybe perk up a Lil more for afc south rivals but generally feel the same. This is the first draft class in 25 years I've ignored. At one point in previous years I knew EVERY player selected up until the 6th round. This year, there were players I'd never heard of drafted in the 1st.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I just feel like I've seen this movie before, so until they do something and earn the respect, I just can't fake being a happy, shiny fan. YMMV
My wife watches Grease three times a year. Every year. & each time, it's like her first time.

Classics never get old. Boy meets girl, girl falls in love, boy asks for some weird oily finger stuff. .

We just like watching the Texans get punched in the mouth. One of these days the Texans are going to punch back. Then they'll get the buttwhup'n they deserve.
 


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