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What Grade Did Caserio Get on Watson Trade?

Texian said:
This is really rather simple. Mulugheta presented (3) teams with a proposal that said, in order for DW4 to waive his NTC and agree to a trade, you must agree to a new 5-year $230 million guaranteed contract. Cleveland did and Atlanta and New Orleans did not. If Atlanta had agreed, DW4 would probably be a Falcon today. The curveball that caught these teams off guard is they originally thought they were bidding on the cap friendly contract that had recently been negotiated by the Texans. In desperate times, desperate people, will do desperate things.
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Some people do dumb things
 
The Texans controlled access to Watson. Caserio (or whoever it was) set a minimum price (3 firsts blah blah) to even allow them to talk to Watson. If a team met the cover charge they were free to deal with Watson & outbid each other.

It is funny in a sad sort of way that the Browns were one of the first teams Watson eliminated. It was only when they came back willing to guarantee the 3rd & 4th year of his contract that Watson chose them.

I put this whole sh*tshow on O'Brien & Easterby & the McNairs shoulders (whichever one of them gave Watson the no trade clause). Caserio had to play the cards he was dealt.

I don't agree with everything Caserio has done. Culley comes to mind but at least in the Watson trade he did a competent job in a very difficult situation.
 
steelbtexan said:
You're making alot of assumptions here.
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More fact, less assumption. Commonly referred to as logical sound deductive reasoning. The ONLY assumption per say, is (2) 2nd rd draft picks. So, you think Jimmy Haslam would've walked away from the trade because of the demand for (2) 2nd draft picks instead (2) 4th RD draft picks? Really? If so, stay away from that empty seat at Caserio's poker table.
 
Texian said:
You're missing the point. Jimmy Haslam was willing to pay DeShaun Watson $230MM GUARANTEED. The largest GDT contract in the NFL by $80MM. There was no way in hell Haslam was going to walk away from the trade because of (2) 2nd RD picks. Haslam was not going to be DENIED. If the (2) 2nd RDs had been explained at the beginning of the discussion, the Texans would have (2) additional 2nd RD picks today.

You can come up with any excuse you want but in the end this was another FUBAR, whether it be Cal's or Caserio's. If Cal truly trusted Caserio to handle this, as they have both indicated, then this belongs to Nick. If you ever walk into a casino and see Nick Caserio sitting at a poker table that has an empty seat, run, do not walk, as fast as you can to take that seat.
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You miss the point, Haslam was not competing with Houston with his offers which obviously became a bidding war. He was competing with Atlanta, NO and Carolina and the target of those offers was not Houston but Watson.

All of the offers from those teams were very similar in overall compensation.

It's possible that Caserio could have squeezed another asset or two out of this but. We really don't know. The bottom line is he got 4 teams to agree to give him fair value for a player who stated he would sabotage his trade value.
 
disaacks3 said:
I’m kinda with TK on this. If Watson wanted out as strongly as was made evident, it makes sense that Caserio goes to his camp and says “You guys go ahead and tell me what teams you’re willing to waive the NTC for so I can get to work”.

Doesn’t that sound reasonable (and normal)?
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No, not reasonable or normal at all. That sounds like a terrible idea that gives all the power to Watson.

Say Caserio did that and Watson says the only teams he'll waive the NTC for is Seattle, San Fran, Pittsburgh, and Miami.

That's it. "Make a deal with those teams or I won't sign with anyone else."

Now Caserio has no leverage to demand three 1st rounds and whatever. He is now limited by what those teams are willing and capable of giving, and they offer even less because they know they are on Watson's short list.

With the way it went down - which, btw, Caserio has received almost universal praise in NFL media and front office circles for pulling off - Nick controlled the game because NOBODY could even have access to a potential trade unless they met his demands.

I feel like folks just want to criticize Caserio at this point so they are grabbing at air. None of it has been even remotely compelling as an objective counter-analysis of the deal.
 
Corrosion said:
They got their asking price when Watson stated he wouldn't let it happen .... It's like you had made the decision that they screwed it up before the deal was even made. Cal sucks, Caserio sucks .... preacher man is running the show.

Just wait for the news that breaks tomorrow ....
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michaelm said:
OK,

1) Not cool to tease this shyte for so many days. Not cool at all

B) This shyte better be good

Finally, the above is meant in jest.

Additionally, I'm just writing another sentence because it amuses me to say something else, after I've already claimed something I said previously was the final thing I had to say.

p.s. the above thing was the last thing I had to say, other than no, I'm not drunk.
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thunderkyss said:
This news?

@Corrosion
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What ended up being the news?
 
we waited to long and the texans spys i guess didnt see the charges coming

we should have treaded him hours after he said he wanted to be traded .... we didnt but o well cant change the past
 
Norg said:
we waited to long and the texans spys i guess didnt see the charges coming

we should have treaded him hours after he said he wanted to be traded .... we didnt but o well cant change the past
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Caserio spoke jive, thought he could work it out.

jive-airplane.gif
 
disaacks3 said:
I’m kinda with TK on this. If Watson wanted out as strongly as was made evident, it makes sense that Caserio goes to his camp and says “You guys go ahead and tell me what teams you’re willing to waive the NTC for so I can get to work”.

Doesn’t that sound reasonable (and normal)?

I’d also expect the GM, if offered an extraordinary offer from someone not on DWs “list”, to approach his camp and see if they were willing to talk with that team as well.

None of that seems to have happened here. It looks like a rookie GM got run over by the player’s camp. The biggest winner here has to be Watson’s agent.

Like our prior GMs, this sets a precedent for interaction that key players and their agents won’t soon forget. I think the only “out” for Caserio here, is that he can say “hey, that was such a PR nightmare, it played by its own rules, with an emphasis on getting it done with”. I’m hoping that’s really the case, rather than him getting steamrolled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ok I have to ask. Why are you saying he got run over? Watson is a player who was given a NTC. The only 3 ways that he could have done is one of the 3 things below.
1- Don't trade him at all. Pay him to sit and make him suffer for the length of his contract (maybe longer IF you tag him).
2- Listen to the teams he would lift the NTC for and pick one. Which Watson could void any with the simple words "I won't go there". Voiding the deal...which is pretty much what happened anyway.
3- Let happen what happened.

Bottom line now is who cares what happened? Watson is gone and we should be happy for that. Now we can move on and talk Texans football. Not something about Watson, until we play the Browns this year (or any after). But, then we want to see our D blow him up multiple times.
 
The thing is both sides had the power to nix any trade they wanted to. Watson had a lot of power but he didn't have all the power. Just because the Browns were willing to guarantee Watson's whole contract did not mean the Texans had to let Watson go to the Browns.

It made it hard on prospective teams because they had to deal with two entities separately & come to terms with both. Plus throw the lawsuits & possible suspension into the mix & you really have a complicated bunch of crap to work through.

I was worried that whatever team took Watson would want to put contingencies on the compensation the Texans received depending on what Goodall did.

The fact that all the draft choices the Texans received had no strings attached was mildly surprising to me. I have to give Caserio credit for this. If he had to take a little less to get out from under Watson completely I'm all for it. It's like a divorce. It's better to pay more upfront so you can wash your hands of them.

I don't think the NFL is done with Watson. It is a good feeling not to have to worry about it. Like a divorce we are through with the b*tch.
 
thunderkyss said:
I take offense. Perhaps you aren’t talking about me.

I’m pro Texans, at least I think I am. I’m not very high on Cal. I’m not very high on Caserio.

I’m optimistic about Lovie Smith (a very happy accident). I’m optimistic that he will get much needed premium talent on defense & the little improvement we saw last year (with a net loss in talent) will be multiplied 10 fold.

I’m optimistic the Texans will fix the run game if only because David Johnson won’t be taking up a roster spot.

I’m optimistic about Davis Mills. I think he should be afforded every opportunity to succeed that Mac Jones will get in New England.

I just don’t think Nick Caserio is the football guy I want running this franchise. & if Cal actually stepped in & told Nick who his HC would be & to roll over to get Watson gone ASAP, Cal also lost faith in Nick.
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I'm watching this draft before I make any firmer decisions about Carstereo.
Next off season will really tell the story when he has a boatload of cap to play with as well as a bunch of picks.
 
Porky said:
I guess I’ll whine some more. Seattle handled the Wilson NTC properly. The Texans did not imho.

while I am happy overall with the trade parameters and have stated such, that completely misses the point.

I like to say never ignore in victory what you would not in defeat.

while the end result was satisfactory, that doesn’t absolve the Texans from scrutiny. Light is always the best disinfectant. How does this impact future trades, if any? What precedents does it set here and league wide. How could have it been handled better, if at all. Asking these questions and exploring possible alternatives isn’t antithetical to being a Texans fan, it’s the very thing that makes us hardcore fans. Blind faith that doesn’t demand excellence isn’t and never has been an answer. These people answer to us - the fans. Without us, they are nothing.

some of y’all just want to enjoy your breakfast sausage and I get that. But I’m more interested in how that sausage was made before it hit your plate. Process matters folks. Stop eating your sausage for a moment and demand to know how that pig was slaughtered.
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It’s been explained how the sausage was made and why this particular pig couldn’t be slaughtered like the other pigs. However you and @thunderkyss to name a couple don’t accept that and that’s fine but it doesn’t change the facts.

I have asked what should have been done and the only answer is handle it like Russel Wilson as though one size fits all in trade deals. The other answer is to violate the contract, open the Texans up to a massive lawsuit and pretty much guarantee we would get nothing for Watson. You’ll forgive me if I’m glad Caserio went the route he did.

As a final note ask yourself this, if how the Texans handled this so bad then why are all the talking heads on the media and the owners/GMs calling for the Browns heads?
 
Porky said:
I guess I’ll whine some more. Seattle handled the Wilson NTC properly. The Texans did not imho.

while I am happy overall with the trade parameters and have stated such, that completely misses the point.

I like to say never ignore in victory what you would not in defeat.

while the end result was satisfactory, that doesn’t absolve the Texans from scrutiny. Light is always the best disinfectant. How does this impact future trades, if any? What precedents does it set here and league wide. How could have it been handled better, if at all. Asking these questions and exploring possible alternatives isn’t antithetical to being a Texans fan, it’s the very thing that makes us hardcore fans. Blind faith that doesn’t demand excellence isn’t and never has been an answer. These people answer to us - the fans. Without us, they are nothing.

some of y’all just want to enjoy your breakfast sausage and I get that. But I’m more interested in how that sausage was made before it hit your plate. Process matters folks. Stop eating your sausage for a moment and demand to know how that pig was slaughtered.
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What would you have done differently - please be specific.
 
maverick512000 said:
As a final note ask yourself this, if how the Texans handled this so bad then why are all the talking heads on the media and the owners/GMs calling for the Browns heads?
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There's plenty of dumbassery displayed by both Houston and Cleveland. However, in the case of Watson, Cleveland's dumbasery far exceeds Houston's and is to Houston's benefit. Not sure why folks still complain, but that's why we're here. LOL
 
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maverick512000 said:
However you and @thunderkyss to name a couple don’t accept that and that’s fine but it doesn’t change the facts.

I have asked what should have been done and the only answer is handle it like Russel Wilson as though one size fits all in trade deals
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Hold on. The only facts of the situation have been used by both sides to support their position. The same frustration you feel trying to understand my position is the same frustration I have trying to receive yours.

In your mind there was only one way to address this situation, or Nick handled it the more logical way.

I don't believe that.

Never before was a trade conducted this way, however difficult the circumstances have been.

Never.

I don't point to the Russell Wilson trade as a cookie cutter model to be followed, but as the traditional way trades are done.

I don't care what Watson wanted. You've already ceded to him all power & control when you're thinking, "Watson won't do this, or do that."

Seattle considered Wilson's wants too, but they did not grant access to other teams so he could decide the best fit for him. Still they received compensation arguably better than what the Texans got from Watson.

Your main argument is the market for Watson was deflated, that whatever team Watson wanted to go to may not be willing to pay what Nick was asking.

We know Atlanta was a team Watson was interested in. They had a QB. They weren't in the market

But we see what length they went to, & what they lost just by putting their names in the hat.

But you go on believing your opinion is fact.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hold on. The only facts of the situation have been used by both sides to support their position. The same frustration you feel trying to understand my position is the same frustration I have trying to receive yours.

In your mind there was only one way to address this situation, or Nick handled it the more logical way.

I don't believe that.

Never before was a trade conducted this way, however difficult the circumstances have been.

Never.

I don't point to the Russell Wilson trade as a cookie cutter model to be followed, but as the traditional way trades are done.

I don't care what Watson wanted. You've already ceded to him all power & control when you're thinking, "Watson won't do this, or do that."

Seattle considered Wilson's wants too, but they did not grant access to other teams so he could decide the best fit for him. Still they received compensation arguably better than what the Texans got from Watson.

Your main argument is the market for Watson was deflated, that whatever team Watson wanted to go to may not be willing to pay what Nick was asking.

We know Atlanta was a team Watson was interested in. They had a QB. They weren't in the market

But we see what length they went to, & what they lost just by putting their names in the hat.

But you go on believing your opinion is fact.
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It's all coulda woulda shoulda.
There is one overarching fact in all this toing and froing about how it should have been done and that is nobody outside of Carstereo and Watson and his agent know ALL the facts, details and nuances of the whole situation. Who could have done a better job? Subjective speculation.
Me, I'm just glad its all over and we got a nice package of draft picks out of it.
Now it's time to move on, sit back and enjoy.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hold on. The only facts of the situation have been used by both sides to support their position. The same frustration you feel trying to understand my position is the same frustration I have trying to receive yours.

In your mind there was only one way to address this situation, or Nick handled it the more logical way.

I don't believe that.

Never before was a trade conducted this way, however difficult the circumstances have been.

Never.

I don't point to the Russell Wilson trade as a cookie cutter model to be followed, but as the traditional way trades are done.

I don't care what Watson wanted. You've already ceded to him all power & control when you're thinking, "Watson won't do this, or do that."

Seattle considered Wilson's wants too, but they did not grant access to other teams so he could decide the best fit for him. Still they received compensation arguably better than what the Texans got from Watson.

Your main argument is the market for Watson was deflated, that whatever team Watson wanted to go to may not be willing to pay what Nick was asking.

We know Atlanta was a team Watson was interested in. They had a QB. They weren't in the market

But we see what length they went to, & what they lost just by putting their names in the hat.

But you go on believing your opinion is fact.
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Wilson said in his long presser that he only waived his NTC for Denver. He had the leverage to revoke said trade if that wasn’t the destination he wanted to go in. But I get what you’re saying here.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hold on. The only facts of the situation have been used by both sides to support their position. The same frustration you feel trying to understand my position is the same frustration I have trying to receive yours.

In your mind there was only one way to address this situation, or Nick handled it the more logical way.

I don't believe that.

Never before was a trade conducted this way, however difficult the circumstances have been.

Never.

I don't point to the Russell Wilson trade as a cookie cutter model to be followed, but as the traditional way trades are done.

I don't care what Watson wanted. You've already ceded to him all power & control when you're thinking, "Watson won't do this, or do that."

Seattle considered Wilson's wants too, but they did not grant access to other teams so he could decide the best fit for him. Still they received compensation arguably better than what the Texans got from Watson.

Your main argument is the market for Watson was deflated, that whatever team Watson wanted to go to may not be willing to pay what Nick was asking.

We know Atlanta was a team Watson was interested in. They had a QB. They weren't in the market

But we see what length they went to, & what they lost just by putting their names in the hat.

But you go on believing your opinion is fact.
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I don’t believe my opinion is fact I believe facts are facts.

Fact: Watson had a NTC and despite what people on here have said about “make him waive it for 3 teams” that has zero to do with the reality of how NTC actually works. The NTC wasn’t waived till literally the moment the trade with Cleveland was approved and made official. Watson couldn’t have waived it earlier if he wanted to.

Fact: Even if you got Watson to agree verbally, if not legally, to waive it for certain teams the only thing binding him was him being a man of his word. This was the player that signed, at the time, the largest contract in NFL history and then 4 months later screamed to be traded. This is also the player that has 20+ women accusing him of sexual assault. And you are going to trust his word of honor?

Fact: Cleveland was out of the running but then was willing to guarantee the full 5 years, never before seen in the NFL, and give him an extra 80 million. Either Atlanta, to use your example, wasn’t willing to do that or were never given the chance. Either way at that point all Watson has to say is “Cleveland or no trade” and Texans options just became very limited.

Fact: Texans didn’t “allow” Watson to negotiate a new contract that was between Watson’s agent and Cleveland after they were out of the running. Texans only choice would be the nuclear option of killing the trade and hoping that Watson was just bluffing about not accepting any other team. After seeing what he could get from Cleveland and knowing he wouldn’t face criminal charges I don’t think he was as desperate to get out he was a year ago.

Fact: If they don’t trade him Texans have to pay him 35 million to ride the bench. He was very careful to not do anything to violate his contract so you can’t get him on that and you can’t make him play because all he has to do is pull a Ramsey and say “I hurt my back”. Texans can’t go the route of just not paying him either because then they are in breach of contract and any half way decent lawyer not only takes them to the cleaners for double his contract but can likely get the contract voided making him a free agent.

These are all facts that you seem to ignore while pounding the table of “its never been done this way” well no it hasn’t but NOTHING about the entire Watson situation has been done before. Never has a player signed a massive contract then want out less than half a year later, never has a player has this many accusers come after them, never have others teams played NFL bachelor like 4 teams did for Watson and never has a tram offered such an insane contract never mind to a player that has zero post season success and 22 pending lawsuits.

So TK I agree it’s never been done this way because there have never been circumstances like this. But this also resulted in the greatest trade haul in modern NFL history and second greatest in all NFL history. So why are you so obsess with how other teams do things?
 
Texansballer74 said:
Wilson said in his long presser that he only waived his NTC for Denver. He had the leverage to revoke said trade if that wasn’t the destination he wanted to go in. But I get what you’re saying here.
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He didn't ask if they would be willing to renegotiate his contract. He didn't ask if they would guarantee the final years of the contract, none of that.

Because it should be irrelevant.

Do you want to be traded to this team or not.

That's the way it's been done in the NFL since the first NTC.
 
thunderkyss said:
He didn't ask if they would be willing to renegotiate his contract. He didn't ask if they would guarantee the final years of the contract, none of that.

Because it should be irrelevant.

Do you want to be traded to this team or not.

That's the way it's been done in the NFL since the first NTC.
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I’m just saying he wasn’t going to waive his NTC to any team unless that’s were he wanted to go.

His agent wasn’t trying to swindle any team out of extra money. Probably never crossed their minds.
 
maverick512000 said:
Fact: Watson had a NTC and despite what people on here have said about “make him waive it for 3 teams” that has zero to do with the reality of how NTC actually works.
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Russell Wilson had a NTC. Seattle found a trade partner with Washington Russell declined. Seattle found a trade partner with Denver. Russell accepted.

Fact: That's the way NTCs work & have worked since the inception of NTCs.


maverick512000 said:
Fact: Even if you got Watson to agree verbally, if not legally, to waive it for certain teams the only thing binding him was him being a man of his word.
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It's your opinion that he would not go play for a team he lists as a team he would accept a trade to.

Why wouldn't he? Because they wouldn't guarantee the 4th & 5th year of his contract? That's irrelevant. Shouldn't even be a consideration.


maverick512000 said:
Fact: Cleveland was out of the running but then was willing to guarantee the full 5 years, never before seen in the NFL, and give him an extra 80 million.
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Fact, never should have been on the table. Contract negotiations shouldn't have anything to do with it.

You including it as a necessity (the negotiation) shows you've already ceded to unreasonable (my opinion) demands.


maverick512000 said:
Fact: Texans didn’t “allow” Watson to negotiate a new contract that was between Watson’s agent and Cleveland after they were out of the running
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Fact, Watson is under contract. It's his rights, bound to Houston by that contract, that Houston was trading.

By allowing him to negotiate that new contract, he is infact tearing up the contract he signed with you, without giving you back the $10M you paid him not to play in 2021.


maverick512000 said:
Fact: If they don’t trade him Texans have to pay him 35 million to ride the bench.
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The fact is you're opinionating on what would happen if they threatened to tie up his money.


maverick512000 said:
These are all facts that you seem to ignore
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I'm not ignoring any of them. I'm not seeing the boogie man you see. He wanted to go to Atlanta. Atlanta was willing to give Nick what he wanted.


maverick512000 said:
So why are you so obsess with how other teams do things?
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Because the Texans have been doing stupid things concerning contract & player negotiations for a while now.

We thought they were over when O'Brien was fired. I listed the ones that happened since Nick got here & argued every one the Texans got the short end.

Looking forward I believe we'll continue to get the short end.

Not that Houston got the short end on this deal. I just believe Nick negotiated from a position believing the player had all the leverage
 
thunderkyss said:
By allowing him to negotiate that new contract, he is infact tearing up the contract he signed with you, without giving you back the $10M you paid him not to play in 2021.
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You can negotiate all you want. The old contract doesn't go away until he is no longer property of the Texans. Then the new team can do whatever the hell they want. Keep the same contract or redo a new one, which the Browns chose to do the latter.

Watson can also say he will waive his NTC to all 31 teams. That means nothing until the trade documents are in front of the trade processor guy, and Watson signs the NTC waiver document.

There's 4 teams we know of that Watson said he would waive for. That doesn't mean the NTC is gone for those 4 teams. That doesn't happen until he signs the document to the one team he decides to go to. The Texans could make a deal with any one of those 4 teams and Watson could still say no in the end. The Texans could have had a killer package with Atlanta, a team Watson said he'd waive for, but the Texans could not trade him there if he decided he wanted to go to Carolina or New Orleans or Cleveland instead. The Texans can only trade him to the ONE team where Watson signs the waiver. That's it.

It's no different for Wilson or anybody else who has or has ever had a NTC.

So, not really sure what it is you're arguing.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hold on. The only facts of the situation have been used by both sides to support their position. The same frustration you feel trying to understand my position is the same frustration I have trying to receive yours.

In your mind there was only one way to address this situation, or Nick handled it the more logical way.

I don't believe that.

Never before was a trade conducted this way, however difficult the circumstances have been.

Never.

I don't point to the Russell Wilson trade as a cookie cutter model to be followed, but as the traditional way trades are done.

I don't care what Watson wanted. You've already ceded to him all power & control when you're thinking, "Watson won't do this, or do that."

Seattle considered Wilson's wants too, but they did not grant access to other teams so he could decide the best fit for him. Still they received compensation arguably better than what the Texans got from Watson.

Your main argument is the market for Watson was deflated, that whatever team Watson wanted to go to may not be willing to pay what Nick was asking.

We know Atlanta was a team Watson was interested in. They had a QB. They weren't in the market

But we see what length they went to, & what they lost just by putting their names in the hat.

But you go on believing your opinion is fact.
Click to expand...

Bottom line is Caserio got a fair deal.

Who cares how the got the deal done.
 
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Jack Burton said:
It’s idiotic that anyone thinks Caserio could have gotten more. Watson held all the cards because of that no trade clause. ATL had balked at the price tag and suddenly teams were drying up. CLE made their move and Watson agreed.
Caserio still got the best haul of any team involved as only MIA offered as much early on.
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Thats the fact. WATSON agreed to the trade he wanted, not Caserio.....
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm hoping he's suspended until the trial and then the suspension is furthered by what comes out in the trial. If nothing comes out then the suspension is over with.

Can you imagine it coming out that Derrick did these things at trial, but when the trial is over he gets to play with no repercussions and really no financial repercussions either?
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most pathetic and unhealthy gougers in America…Disney and the NFL
 
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