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What Grade Did Caserio Get on Watson Trade?

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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How do you get him to waive the NTC in that scenario?
Same way Seattle got Russell to waive his.

Tell him, "you're going to Washington."

He says no.

Tell him, "you're going to Denver."

He says ok.

Russell Wilson told Seattle there were three teams he'd waive his NTC for. Denver was on the list, Washington wasn't.

I'd ask Watson for three teams he would waive his NTC for. If he doesn't produce a list, he doesn't get traded, he doesn't play for Houston, he doesn't get $35M.

I understand some like the drop them & grab your ankles negotiation tactics, but Houston will continue to be Houston if they don't change
 

JCTexan

Hall of Fame
Same way Seattle got Russell to waive his.

Tell him, "you're going to Washington."

He says no.

Tell him, "you're going to Denver."

He says ok.

Russell Wilson told Seattle there were three teams he'd waive his NTC for. Denver was on the list, Washington wasn't.

I'd ask Watson for three teams he would waive his NTC for. If he doesn't produce a list, he doesn't get traded, he doesn't play for Houston, he doesn't get $35M.

I understand some like the drop them & grab your ankles negotiation tactics, but Houston will continue to be Houston if they don't change
How do you stop Watson from getting the 35M? He didn't play a snap for us last year and he still got paid.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I can't imagine why the first player to ever do so would be one with a pending GJ hearing & 22 sexual misconduct civil charges.

& we're OK with it
I don’t think anyone is ok with it.

I think the bulk of us here on the message board, Houston Texan fans, now a lot of Browns fans, and a lot of the NFL in general would be more than happy if Watson had this stuff go trial so we could get more information to make a more educated judgement. And most of the people named above would be ok with Watson serving a long suspension like Vick and having to work his way back into the NFL.

Watson has shown no remorse and has only thought of himself and getting his brand back on track.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
How do you stop Watson from getting the 35M? He didn't play a snap for us last year and he still got paid.
Texans made a choice. I agree with that choice since they had no intention of trading him last year.

I think Watson was motivated to be traded this year. After a year of lawyer fees, trying to fund Lefty's, & the impending settlements (22) I feel threatening that money supply (his agent is still billing him) he'd pony up a list of three teams
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Same way Seattle got Russell to waive his.

Tell him, "you're going to Washington."

He says no.

Tell him, "you're going to Denver."

He says ok.

Russell Wilson told Seattle there were three teams he'd waive his NTC for. Denver was on the list, Washington wasn't.

I'd ask Watson for three teams he would waive his NTC for. If he doesn't produce a list, he doesn't get traded, he doesn't play for Houston, he doesn't get $35M.

I understand some like the drop them & grab your ankles negotiation tactics, but Houston will continue to be Houston if they don't change
You don’t seem to understand that this legally can’t be done. Not only would any good lawyer take the Texans completely to the cleaners but they might can also get the whole contract voided making Watson a free agent.

And don’t talk about how Watson needs the money. First we have no idea what his bank account looks like but whatever lawyer he gets would do it on a pay on win deal and his agent would spot him whatever living expenses he needs. Also no the Texans couldn’t tie it up in court because again any decent lawyer would file to have it fast tracked using the excuse of basically he is being denied the ability to earn a living.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What trips me up is that never before, in the history of the NFL has a player had this much influence in a trade who wasn't tendered with a franchise tag.

Never had a disgruntled player been able to negotiate the terms of a new contract before his trade.

Never.

I can't imagine why the first player to ever do so would be one with a pending GJ hearing & 22 sexual misconduct civil charges.

& we're OK with it
We're not OK with it.

We just accept it for what it is.

Derrick because he had the NTC was able to get the best monetary deal he could get. (All guaranteed money) I dont like this either, but that part of the trade wasn't on Caserio. It was on Calhoun for giving Derrick the NTC. It was the price to pay for Calhoun being an idiot. Luckily I think Calhoun learned his lesson and there will be no more NTC's given out anywhere in the next 5-10 yrs by Calhoun. The 1st player that demands a NTC will immediately go on the trade block.
 
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maverick512000

Hall of Fame
What trips me up is that never before, in the history of the NFL has a player had this much influence in a trade who wasn't tendered with a franchise tag.

Never had a disgruntled player been able to negotiate the terms of a new contract before his trade.

Never.

I can't imagine why the first player to ever do so would be one with a pending GJ hearing & 22 sexual misconduct civil charges.

& we're OK with it
I am absolutely not ok with it I just realize the circumstances being what they were it was the lesser of all evils. Still evil but if you have to make a deal with the devil better a verbal one than a written one. Texans had the verbal deal and passed it off to the Browns who turned it into a written one. Now he is their problem and the Texan fan in me is very happy with the results all the way around.

The moral part of me is disgusted with the entire NFL and the strip dance these teams did for Watson’s entertainment. I’m just happy for once my team was on the right side of the gun barrel.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Cal was named in a lawsuit and was/is getting sued for discrimination. He wanted no part in that.

He lucked into having a better African American coach already on the team.

He was smart to step in and hire Lovie.

Think about this - having to deal with both Brian Flores’ lawsuit and Watson’s trade the Texans navigated both and came out pretty lucky. Could be worse. A lot worse.

And not a whole lot better really.

I will take it.
I get this sentiment and somewhat agree with you. But, you aren't going to win a championship with Calhoun showing this kind of leadership. Always reactive never proactive.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I really couldn't care less what Watson wanted.

I know he wanted to play in Atlanta. Why do I care if they would guarantee the 4th & 5th year of his contract?

Same thing with Carolina. Supposedly he'd have been a Panther if they would have guaranteed those final years...

Why should Nick care? Ship him to Carolina, then they can negotiate. Send him to New Orleans.
What does it matter where Caserio shipped Derrick.

He's no longer down on Kirby and that's all that really matters. That and Caserio got a fair deal.
 

steelbtexan

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Same way Seattle got Russell to waive his.

Tell him, "you're going to Washington."

He says no.

Tell him, "you're going to Denver."

He says ok.

Russell Wilson told Seattle there were three teams he'd waive his NTC for. Denver was on the list, Washington wasn't.

I'd ask Watson for three teams he would waive his NTC for. If he doesn't produce a list, he doesn't get traded, he doesn't play for Houston, he doesn't get $35M.

I understand some like the drop them & grab your ankles negotiation tactics, but Houston will continue to be Houston if they don't change
So you're willing to give Derrick another 35 mil to prove a point? Dont ever try to save the Texans money in FA if this is your attitude. Calhoun making smart financial decisions means nothing to you. You shouldn't have a problem with the 22 mil Culley got.

If getting the draft picks Caserio got in the trade is grabbing their ankles, I wish the Calhoun's had started grabbing their ankles about 2 decades ago.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But isn't Cal still in charge?
Yes he is and this is just another sign of a lack of leadership. Because of Flores, Calhoun basically would've hired just about any minority HC because of the lawsuit. IMHO

Can you see Kraft/Jerrah/Irsay doing this? I think they would've done what they originally said they were going to do and let the man they hired to run their org do exactly that, run their org.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Same way Seattle got Russell to waive his.

Tell him, "you're going to Washington."

He says no.

Tell him, "you're going to Denver."

He says ok.

Russell Wilson told Seattle there were three teams he'd waive his NTC for. Denver was on the list, Washington wasn't.

I'd ask Watson for three teams he would waive his NTC for. If he doesn't produce a list, he doesn't get traded, he doesn't play for Houston, he doesn't get $35M.

I understand some like the drop them & grab your ankles negotiation tactics, but Houston will continue to be Houston if they don't change
You have to acknowledge the differences before you can expect similar results
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I get this sentiment and somewhat agree with you. But, you aren't going to win a championship with Calhoun showing this kind of leadership. Always reactive never proactive.
Getting sued out of the blue for something you had no part in leaves you with but one option and that is to be reactionary.

It was the only voice of reason and intelligence. He could see the writing on the wall and was forced into a corner by Culley not firing Kelly and them both ending up getting fired. Score one for Cal.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Derrick because he had the NTC was able to get the best monetary deal he could get. (All guaranteed money) I dont like this either, but that part of the trade wasn't on Caserio.
Players who are traded don’t get the opportunity to negotiate new contracts unless they’re franchise tagged.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Players who are traded don’t get the opportunity to negotiate new contracts unless they’re franchise tagged.
Or have NTC's.

Used to they were paid a bonus to waive their NTC's. I guess in a way this happened with Derrick too.

Read JB's post 1067 and the article.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
duplicate
What’s the difference?

what difference gives Watson the advantage?

in hindsight we see teams did not care. Teams were ready to put up Nick’s ask & were told no. & there we’re still 4 teams to ante up.

We’re wrong about any diminished value.

Watson has no intention of waiving his NTC? Is that the difference? Why should I care what Watson wants? I’m not his agent.

I’m going to trade him the way every other disgruntled player with an NTC has been traded. I’m not going to come up with some novel process that has never been done before & never will be done again.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Yes he is and this is just another sign of a lack of leadership. Because of Flores, Calhoun basically would've hired just about any minority HC because of the lawsuit. IMHO

Can you see Kraft/Jerrah/Irsay doing this? I think they would've done what they originally said they were going to do and let the man they hired to run their org do exactly that, run their org.
Kraft and Irsay let his people do their thing, Jerry not so much. He's always hiring puppets vs strong ,imded coaches. He could've had McVeigh, but he didn't want to give up 53 man control to him. That's why he hasn't won anything since 95.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
What trips me up is that never before, in the history of the NFL has a player had this much influence in a trade who wasn't tendered with a franchise tag.

Never had a disgruntled player been able to negotiate the terms of a new contract before his trade.

Never.

I can't imagine why the first player to ever do so would be one with a pending GJ hearing & 22 sexual misconduct civil charges.

& we're OK with it
The Texans traded him on his current contract.

It's not until the Browns have his rights that they "extend" his deal.


The reason it was done this way rather than individual teams is that Watson would have just shot down those trades.
By giving him a pool of teams to choose from and each went about that in different ways - Just look at the contract he ultimately settled on and realize they were bidding against one another.

What Seattle did never would have worked because Watson stated he would nix any deal that made it difficult for his new team to build a winner. You couldn't just deal with one team, you had to sell access to Watson and that's just what they did.

Texans came out of the trade with all they asked for and did so when Watson was hostile towards their getting value. You can't complain about that result. They bullied the bully.


Telling him give me three teams you'll go to or you don't get traded .... he sits on your cap and collects checks.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
This is the part that trips people up as well as myself. I think, myself included, believe Caserio could broker a 3 deals and tell Watson to pick one.

Why couldn’t it work that way?

Why would Caserio give Watson the option to negotiate between those teams and not Caserio negotiate between those teams?

Was that because of the NTC? Did Caserio have to give that leverage away?
It's what those other teams are willing to offer Watson that gets him to waive the NTC.

Cleveland was desperate ... they went so far beyond the accepted norms that most believe they will regret the deal sooner than later financially.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
:ok:

if that’s what you want to believe
They got their asking price when Watson stated he wouldn't let it happen .... It's like you had made the decision that they screwed it up before the deal was even made. Cal sucks, Caserio sucks .... preacher man is running the show.

Just wait for the news that breaks tomorrow ....

He let Watt go for nothing

He let Roby go for nothing

He let Ingram go for nothing

He let Cobb go for nothing

He let Cunningham go for nothing

He let Watson walk all over him

Guys who can't find a better deal, yeah he can retain them. Murray, Driskel, & Burkhead...

Again, on their own, none of these are anything. But together & with the Watson trade, I'm afraid the Texans are at a huge disadvantage. A pattern has emerged.
Watt was an owner move. They wanted to let the best player in franchise history go wherever he wanted. Although now that the NFL has gone full NBA this offseason I would have preferred they “allow” teams to negotiate with Watt after making an offer to Texans like with WD40.

He got a 3rd for Roby which turned into the #80 overall pick. This was a good move in that it allowed younger players to get an opportunity to prove they could play and helped “the tank” this past season. Roby wasn’t going to be part of team’s long term plans.

Agree on Ingram. He was the only back that was somewhat productive besides the Burkhead Chargers game.

He actually got SOMETHING for Cobb and his ridiculous contract thanks to Rodgers. That’s a win.

Cunningham and Mercilus had untradeable contracts and no MVP bff demanding their team acquire them.

Watson trade was quite a haul considering the circumstances (NTC, 22 civil suits).
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Yes he is and this is just another sign of a lack of leadership. Because of Flores, Calhoun basically would've hired just about any minority HC because of the lawsuit. IMHO

Can you see Kraft/Jerrah/Irsay doing this? I think they would've done what they originally said they were going to do and let the man they hired to run their org do exactly that, run their org.
Kraft was the reason BB had to trade away Jimmy G.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Just wait for the news that breaks tomorrow ....
OK,

1) Not cool to tease this shyte for so many days. Not cool at all

B) This shyte better be good

Finally, the above is meant in jest.

Additionally, I'm just writing another sentence because it amuses me to say something else, after I've already claimed something I said previously was the final thing I had to say.

p.s. the above thing was the last thing I had to say, other than no, I'm not drunk.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
They got their asking price when Watson stated he wouldn't let it happen .... It's like you had made the decision that they screwed it up before the deal was even made. Cal sucks, Caserio sucks .... preacher man is running the show.
I’ve tried to like Caserio.

But yes, before the trade I said Nick should go the three team list way.

I didn’t complain when actual trade talks started.

When I heard there was talk about restructuring the first year of Watson’s contract I was like… that dude has some balls.

Then the Russell Wilson trade came. It was news one day & business as usual the next.

Then I heard Carolina refused to guarantee the 4th & 5th year of his contract. & I thought, this mf… holding out before the contract was in effect & wanting to guarantee the 4th & 5th year… he’s over reaching.

Then Cleveland fully guaranteed $235M, I think the Texans got played.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I’ve tried to like Caserio.

But yes, before the trade I said Nick should go the three team list way.

I didn’t complain when actual trade talks started.

When I heard there was talk about restructuring the first year of Watson’s contract I was like… that dude has some balls.

Then the Russell Wilson trade came. It was news one day & business as usual the next.

Then I heard Carolina refused to guarantee the 4th & 5th year of his contract. & I thought, this mf… holding out before the contract was in effect & wanting to guarantee the 4th & 5th year… he’s over reaching.

Then Cleveland fully guaranteed $235M, I think the Texans got played.

The bottom line says it all ..... Cleveland guaranteed $230m but its the Texans that got played.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Who said that was fair value at that time?

The fact that more has come out about Derrick's Sexual Predator tendencies and the fact that the McNair's wanted him to exit Kirby stage left as soon as the GJ no billed Derrick.
Stephen Ross since that was what he was willing to pay at the time. Nothing changed between Nov 2021 and 5 months later Mar 2022. Once again here we are, you and me, discussing another Caserio FUBAR.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Didn't Ross also want all the civil suits settled that Watson refused to do?
Watson tried but several of the women refused to settle or at least for however much was offered. It's still debatable if Ross actually wanted Watson since the big issue they were having with Flores was bad mouthing Tua. Lot of fins fans think that getting Watson was just a last attempt at working things out with Flores which was why Ross was demanding a clean slate before he made the deal. I think its telling that as soon as Flores was gone so was the Fins interest in Watson to the point they didn't even reach out during the bidding war.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Stephen Ross since that was what he was willing to pay at the time. Nothing changed between Nov 2021 and 5 months later Mar 2022. Once again here we are, you and me, discussing another Caserio FUBAR.
Ross was willing to do that trade if Derrick was able to settle his legal issues. He wasn't able to settle them. Time and the McNair's wanting to get this over with us what changed in a yrs time.
 

steelbtexan

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Russell Wilson had a NTC, was traded, did not negotiate a new contract.

this is how it is done when the team is the grown up.
Who cares if Derrick renegotiated his contract with the Browns. He certainly didn't renegotiate his contract with the Texans.

As long as Caserio got a fair deal, why should anybody care if Derrick got a new deal. I only cared about 2 things once the GJ no billed

1. Getting his azz out of town as quickly as possible.

2. Getting fair trade value

What did you care about?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Ross was willing to do that trade if Derrick was able to settle his legal issues. He wasn't able to settle them. Time and the McNair's wanting to get this over with us what changed in a yrs time.
You're missing the point. Jimmy Haslam was willing to pay DeShaun Watson $230MM GUARANTEED. The largest GDT contract in the NFL by $80MM. There was no way in hell Haslam was going to walk away from the trade because of (2) 2nd RD picks. Haslam was not going to be DENIED. If the (2) 2nd RDs had been explained at the beginning of the discussion, the Texans would have (2) additional 2nd RD picks today.

You can come up with any excuse you want but in the end this was another FUBAR, whether it be Cal's or Caserio's. If Cal truly trusted Caserio to handle this, as they have both indicated, then this belongs to Nick. If you ever walk into a casino and see Nick Caserio sitting at a poker table that has an empty seat, run, do not walk, as fast as you can to take that seat.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
What trips me up is that never before, in the history of the NFL has a player had this much influence in a trade who wasn't tendered with a franchise tag.

Never had a disgruntled player been able to negotiate the terms of a new contract before his trade.

Never.

I can't imagine why the first player to ever do so would be one with a pending GJ hearing & 22 sexual misconduct civil charges.

& we're OK with it
This is really rather simple. Mulugheta presented (3) teams with a proposal that said, in order for DW4 to waive his NTC and agree to a trade, you must agree to a new 5-year $230 million guaranteed contract. Cleveland did and Atlanta and New Orleans did not. If Atlanta had agreed, DW4 would probably be a Falcon today. The curveball that caught these teams off guard is they originally thought they were bidding on the cap friendly contract that had recently been negotiated by the Texans. In desperate times, desperate people, will do desperate things.
 

steelbtexan

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You're missing the point. Jimmy Haslam was willing to pay DeShaun Watson $230MM GUARANTEED. The largest GDT contract in the NFL by $80MM. There was no way in hell Haslam was going to walk away from the trade because of (2) 2nd RD picks. Haslam was not going to be DENIED. If the (2) 2nd RDs had been explained at the beginning of the discussion, the Texans would have (2) additional 2nd RD picks today.

You can come up with any excuse you want but in the end this was another FUBAR, whether it be Cal's or Caserio's. If Cal truly trusted Caserio to handle this, as they have both indicated, then this belongs to Nick. If you ever walk into a casino and see Nick Caserio sitting at a poker table that has an empty seat, run, do not walk, as fast as you can to take that seat.
You're making alot of assumptions here.
 


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