Dejaview
All Pro
He was paid only to keep his rights for what became three firsts, a third and two fourths.
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What Grade Did Caserio Get on Watson Trade?
- Thread starter TexansBull
- Start date
michaelm
vox nihili
To those of you who are vehemently arguing that Caserio got screwed over in this trade, quick question.
If this scenario was flipped and Caserio has made the exact trade FOR Watson, do you think you'd be here just as vehemently arguing what a good deal he made?
You don't have to answer that. I think you, me, and everyone reading this knows that you would not be. Not a freaking chance
If this scenario was flipped and Caserio has made the exact trade FOR Watson, do you think you'd be here just as vehemently arguing what a good deal he made?
You don't have to answer that. I think you, me, and everyone reading this knows that you would not be. Not a freaking chance
Porky
Hall of Fame
The trade parameters themselves I give a B+. Only issue I have is no player, and no second. I'd have given up the 2024 first for a good player from their roster, but all in all, my complaint isn't about the actual compensation. I think the compensation was fair all in all.
It's that Watson ran all over NC and controlled the process. That's total BS and that's my beef. So, if we're going to argue let's argue about the real issue instead of this façade that everyone is complaining about the compensation.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Yeah Watson showed up, but it’s not like he was doing his assignments. He was not taking part in team drills, wasn’t running the offense, hell, he was playing more defense than anything.
BUT
That was as much on the Texans as anything. They didn’t push the issue and were the ones who allowed it. They didn’t tell him to get in there with the 1’s and get your reps in or any of that.
They didn’t want him playing for them as much as he didn’t want to play for them. So it played out like it did. The Texans chose to pay him $10M to be inactive.
Had they gone the other route and pressed the issue, who knows how that would have gone? Probably a lot more legal issues that they’d both probably still be dealing with, and worst case, he might still be here.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Agreed, in my mind Texans paid 10 million for a bunch of picks, including three 1st, and to ship a problem out of town. In football terms that’s like finding the Mona Lisa at a garage sell.
michaelm
vox nihili
For the record, I'm not saying that Caserio shouldn't have gotten a little more than he did.
Maybe a more experienced GM gets a better deal
I'm mainly referring to the usual suspects who are up in arms because they claim that he got completely robbed.
Yes, let's debate it. Present your case instead of an emotion-based rant. I really want to understand how anyone thinks Watson ran all over NC considering the circumstances.
You have a right to feel how you feel, but without substantiating your perspective with actual proof, it just seems like someone pissing in the wind.
I’m not even worried about the return. He asked for what he wanted, he got what he wanted.
If it weren’t for all the other little things he’s done, I’d probably be defending how he handled this situation.
I don’t care for the way he’s managed the cap.
I don’t like that he’s traded for several players that are not on the team today. One in particular didn’t make training camp.
I don’t like his HC hiring process. I thought last year was a fluke & due to extenuating circumstances. 12 months later I learned it wasn’t a fluke.
I overlooked trading players for nothing for “culture” purposes, Cobb, Ingram, Robinson, Cunningham.
I liked how he managed the draft
I liked the players he found in the FA bargain bin.
But the scales are leaning the wrong way.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
To be fair if BOB was in control Watson probably stays and plays but yea your point is valid. He sucked ass as a GM.
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
I have to go with an A.
Watson had a NTC and because of that he controlled over 50% of the deal. Even if someone was offering 4 1sts and a few 2nds...if Watson said he didn’t want to play for them no deal. Nick was wanting 3 1st round picks and he got them. He wanted other things like a 2nd and 3rd but again Watson’s NTC. From what we know it was the Browns or Falcons and all of a sudden it was the Browns only. I can't blame it on Nick that Watson went for the 230mil. The only thing I am marking off for is no 2nd round pick. But, that's kinda stupid to do when he was only telling Watson’s team who wanted him and the money to be paid. You want to mark down the trade? Blame the former GM/HC, Cal and Easterby for allowing the NTC. Had it not been there I believe not 1 percent of the forum would be mad.
Watson had a NTC and because of that he controlled over 50% of the deal. Even if someone was offering 4 1sts and a few 2nds...if Watson said he didn’t want to play for them no deal. Nick was wanting 3 1st round picks and he got them. He wanted other things like a 2nd and 3rd but again Watson’s NTC. From what we know it was the Browns or Falcons and all of a sudden it was the Browns only. I can't blame it on Nick that Watson went for the 230mil. The only thing I am marking off for is no 2nd round pick. But, that's kinda stupid to do when he was only telling Watson’s team who wanted him and the money to be paid. You want to mark down the trade? Blame the former GM/HC, Cal and Easterby for allowing the NTC. Had it not been there I believe not 1 percent of the forum would be mad.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
I see what you did there. Must’ve been hypnotized by that butth err I mean chin They had more in common then we knew
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Welcome to the Kool Aid Brigade!!
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
Welcome to the Kool Aid Brigade!!
Nope, just the facts.
1- OB allowed the NTC
2- Watson wasn't lifting it for less money and could not care what the Texans got
3- Nick with hands tired managed to get rid of Watson (A+ IMO), 3 1st round picks (A) and got some extra picks...had he got a 2nd it would be A+
That alone is a good thing IMO. Watson was not going to play here and IMO is trash as a human who I don't want here.
I’m kinda with TK on this. If Watson wanted out as strongly as was made evident, it makes sense that Caserio goes to his camp and says “You guys go ahead and tell me what teams you’re willing to waive the NTC for so I can get to work”.
Doesn’t that sound reasonable (and normal)?
I’d also expect the GM, if offered an extraordinary offer from someone not on DWs “list”, to approach his camp and see if they were willing to talk with that team as well.
None of that seems to have happened here. It looks like a rookie GM got run over by the player’s camp. The biggest winner here has to be Watson’s agent.
Like our prior GMs, this sets a precedent for interaction that key players and their agents won’t soon forget. I think the only “out” for Caserio here, is that he can say “hey, that was such a PR nightmare, it played by its own rules, with an emphasis on getting it done with”. I’m hoping that’s really the case, rather than him getting steamrolled.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LMAO!!
Wilson was not letting them negotiate with 31 other franchises. He played his own diva cards and gave them three options.
Russell Wilson Would Waive No-Trade Clause for Three Teams
Ultimately, he was willing to waive his NTC for one team: the Denver Broncos.
Watson & Mulugeta's made previous statements about not going to a team decimated by paying the price to acquire Watson and weaponized the NTC.
The only leverage the Texans had was the fact that he's under contract with them and Watson/agent cannot enter into any discussion with other teams without permission.
The Texans weaponized that fact - You want access your offer has to meet our minimum threshold.
Four teams made offers that reached or exceeded that threshold and Watson was "given permission" to discuss his future with each of those teams.
He did not waive the NTC until the deal was struck with Cleveland. He was never going to waive the NTC for more than one team - the team he ultimately was going to.
Playing gatekeeper was the only way the Texans could get something resembling fair value for Watson and the haul they managed to acquire has only been matched three times in league history and this is the only instance since the draft was shortened to 7 rounds.
Cal and Caserio get an A+ for the collection of assets in return for a guy who weaponized a NTC and openly stated he wouldn't go to a team who had to pay a huge price to acquire him - they did pay a huge price - three #1 draft picks and then some, a $230m fully guaranteed contract - $80m more guaranteed dollars than any other contract in league history and cap hits of $55m from 23-26.
Cal & Caserio led the dance , they weren't led by the nose.
In a normal trade situation that wounds reasonable but remember this is not a normal situation.
The player making the demands has weaponized the NTC and says he won't go to a team who's decimated by paying the price to acquire him.
The Texans counter by saying teams have to meet their minimum just to gain access then you can pick and choose among those teams where you want to go - But you are NOT dictating the price of admission.
Caserio - Here's the floor. Make your offers.
Caserio doesn't get to decide which of those offers he accepts - Watson did.
Tell me about the precedence and the way it was handled?
Meant absolutely nothing after they called Atlanta & went to Cleveland. Don't let them bluff you into doing things their way.
You hold his rights. Bluff back, play hardball. Threaten to sideline him another season, threaten hold his money until he complies to do things your way.
Caserio got fair value, that's all that really matters.
Why does it matter who controlled what or how they got there?
Derrick had control of the situation the minute Calhoun gave Derrick the NTC. Caserio was Left having to make the best of a bad situation. He did his job as well as could be expected. This is what a competent GM looks like. I know they have never had a competent GM down on Kirby so fans may not recognize what a competent GM looks like.
You didn't like the compensation Caserio got for Derrick?
He’s got a 5 year fully guaranteed $225M contract, so basically he’s untradable
Ok, you don't have a problem with the trade?
1. You don't like the way he's handled the cap? Are they not going to have plenty of cap space and draft picks next off-season? This has always been a 2 yr cleanup of the mess BOB left. Particularly the cleaning of the cap.
2. Trades? He took shots with late Rd picks on 2 guys that have started in the NFL. Not a bad gamble, but a gamble he lost. I hope he continues to take shots on guys like this with late Rd picks. Odds are you will win more than you lose.
3. The HC hiring got screwed up because an 85 year old woman and her baby Huey son made the final call on those hirings.
4. You liked how he managed the draft and the fact that he found 4-5 guys in FA on the cheap.
So again I'm really struggling to figure out what it is that you really don't like about what Caserio has done so far?
Considering the constraints he's dealt with I think that while not perfect, he's done an outstanding job so far. This will really come down to hitting on the picks he got in the draft. But that shouldn't worry you, because according to Tex, Lovie is in charge of that now, so Caserio really isn't in charge of that anymore.
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Dejaview
All Pro
Ok he does things your way. that wouldn’t affect his trade value, would it.
It's clear that you do not understand the process.
The Texans didn't go calling Atlanta and end up in Cleveland.
The Texans didn't negotiate with each team.
They made a statement to all the teams involved - Your offer must meet or exceed our minimum requirement or you get no access to Watson..
9 teams made exploratory offers. Of those 9 only 4 met the threshold set by Caserio.
Only those 4 teams were granted access to make their pitch to Watson.
From that point the Texans wait for Watson to decide which team he was going to and ultimately what trade package they would receive.
Bottom line is that no matter which team Watson chose the Texans were going to get their asking price.
I think we all know the answer to this. Then he would be griping about Caserio not getting proper value for Derrick.
Caserio for some odd reason will never be able to keep TK happy. Shocking I tell you, good thing is Caserio isn't concerned in the least about keeping fans like TK happy.
What I think this really comes down to, is that subconsciously TK and some fans wanted Derrick to remain a Texan and that was never going to happen. Or fans like TK are disappointed with Derricks perversions and need somebody else to blame. Caserio is an easy target for these kinds of fans. Before Caserio, Easterby was the easy target. But since he's gone radio silence, these fans had to find a new target.
A very smart way to do business in very difficult times to get full value for Derrick.
I didn’t say they did. I’m saying Watson called Atlanta & eventually went to Cleveland are evidence that what the trading team gave up wasn’t as important as they made it out to be. They were bluffing, talking tuff & in effect bullying Nick Caserio
I don’t think so. We’ll never know.
remember I’m starting from the premise that enough teams didn’t seem to look at Watson’s legal issues like most appear to on this board.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I really don’t get why so many can’t understand this and keep beating the “Make him waive it for these teams.” The NTC not some house rule in a game of monopoly it is a legally binding agreement written into the contract. Watson couldn’t have “just waived it” if he wanted to. To waive the NTC basically all parties had to agree to amend the contract and set down with the lawyers to get it rewritten.
Oh sure Watson could say he will waive it for X teams but the ONLY thing that would make that binding is him honoring his word. If anyone believes he’s a man of honor after signing a contract then yelling he wants out 4 months later, that’s not even counting the off field stuff, then you really are a Watson fan boy.
The Texans had enemies on all sides, you had a player weaponizing his NTC, an agent hell bent to screw anybody over to help his client, can’t blame him that’s his job, and other teams looking to pay the lowest cost they could. Texans were basically the doorman at the club, they control who gets in and makes sure the cover charge is paid but after that they can’t control what goes on inside.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Watson may have called Atlanta to ask them to come to the table but they still had to pay the ante up just like all the other teams. If they wouldn’t then it wouldn’t have mattered how many times they were called Texans wouldn’t have traded.
In this case if Watson does say Atlanta or nobody then yeah Texans have a choice. Either trade him for pennies on the dollar or make him stay a Texan. What would have happened we’ll never know because Falcons were willing to pay the ante up.
Doesn’t change the fact we’d have more if he would have been more conventional about how he managed it.
Did he win any of them this year? That’s my problem. Not one. Add to that, he traded for a guy he cut before training camp & nobody picked him up.
Looked like he was going to make as bad a hire as last year with Josh McCown. He was settling with Gannon. That’s not how to make a decision. I think Cal prevented him from making a mistake. McCown, not Gannon
Because you’re ignoring everything I said. You don’t have to agree with me, but when I say, “these are the reasons I’m disappointed with Caserio.” Know that those are the reasons I’m disappointed with Caserio
I see how you take a mistaken opinion & build on it that you lose all connection with reality.
I think Watson is guilty & have been saying so for a long time.
Caserio is hopefully good at evaluating talent, acquiring talent, & working the draft. So far there is plenty of reasons to think he will be.
But he’s not the guy I want running the franchise. Neither is Cal. We’re not rudderless, but the rudder is broken.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Well, by default you wouldn't know what a competent GM looks like either. If all any of us based our decision on was nothing but 20 or so years of the Texans, then we would have to properly say competent GMs don't exist.
1.You don't know this and there's a good chance you end up with less.
.
2. He went 0-2 due to injury. Can't be scared to take chances on NFL starter level players with late Rd pick swaps and late Rd picks.
3. You don't know who Caserio wanted to hire, except for Gannon. Who's to say that if McCown was the hire he wouldn't have been a great hire. Although I think McCown was an Easterby hire guy. What I do know is Calhoun lied when he said he was going to let Caserio run football oops. I would have liked to see what a Caserio HC hire would have looked like and if his guy would have been successful. We will never know the answer to this question.
4. I'm not ignoring you I just disagree with you and pointed out why your opinion seems to come from a whining about nothing position.
5. We don't know, Tex could be correct. We will see what types of players are drafted get a better idea of who is making the final calls in the draft and fa. I will say Caserio's fa additions this year haven't impressed me and I didn't expect top tier fa signings. I guess it's still early and there will be many Mid-lower tier fa additions
6. Agreed about Derrick, he beat the rap which was good for the Texans but bad that a sexual predator is still part of society.
7. Agreed and this is what the Caserio era will come down too, can he hit on the picks he got in the trade.
8. I would like to know what kind of vision you have for the Calhoun's and who you think would be a GM that's available that could carry out your vision? Particularly knowing the constraints that Janice/Calhoun put their GM's under.
If you've watched guys like Ozzy/Polian/Colbert etc ..you know what a competent GM looks like.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
When I see the Texans in the AFC title game for three years in a row and they get a couple of SBs out of that, then I'll have seen a competent GM.
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There's not a whole lot of difference between what Atlanta offered the Texans and what Cleveland offered the Texans.
What's different is what Cleveland, Carolina, New Orleans and Atlanta offered Watson. That's why he's a Cleveland turd stain today. Not because of what they offered the Texans but what they offered Watson & Mulageta.
Atlanta and Carolina were willing to do everything Cleveland was accept guarantee the entire $230m. They wanted outs in the final 2 years.
The Texans set the price of access to try and sway Watson to join each team. The price each team was willing to pony up was known before they were allowed to talk with Watson.
Now its Watson's choice where he ultimately goes and which trade package the Texans get as teams throw money (contract offers) at him.
Cleveland was out at one point then came back offering the $230m fully guaranteed.
Not the point
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
Yeah if you want him you have to cough up 225mil in full. I don't think it would be any type of line for his services anyway. I really think that we had 3-4 options:
Indy
Atlanta
Cleveland
NO
Maybe Philly
Past that I don't know if anyone else was interested.
So you think Caserio should have ignored what he said and instead made the teams negotiate with the Texans and forget let Watson agree with the winner or not get traded?
Texazan
Our HOF 34
It was sarcasm brother. Texian reference. Like it or not you‘re a card carrying member, embrace it!
Texazan
Our HOF 34
I had a couple spinach and egg frittatas this morning, replaced some old electrical outlet and switches upstairs for some modern ones, rode my bike in the beautiful Tempe sunshine, came home, popped open an IPA, did a small shot of Jameson and then settled in for the HOU vs VIL game which didn’t have the outcome I had desired but then I recalled the Oily One was in CLE for a nice haul of picks and then all was right in my sports world again……no downside my friends no downside
But it wasn't the same at all
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Christ almighty I can't believe some of the people in this thread. We're rid of Watson, we got a shitload of picks, we have a HC who's been a HC in a SB before. WTF else do yall want? There hasn't been this much reason for optimism in freaking decades. I don't know what they'll do with all of it, but damn this off season has more potential to it than we've had in years.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
We have trained ourselves think that every silver lining has a dark cloud.