Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Week 4: at Buffalo

Status
Not open for further replies.

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Ok... there are some teams we should not try to emulate. Jags/NYJ/Bears are three of the top three.

chances are if they are doing it, they are doing it wrong.

2nd, they’ve already made up their mind they have their future QB. You guys are saying we need to see if we need to draft a QB in 2022.

If Culley were to say DM10 is our starter, then yes. Play the kid. But if we’re just kicking tires, play Tyrod.
When it comes to looking for a franchise QB... those are the three LAST teams in the NFL I'm going to emulate. Haha. I'm really really hoping we don't go through the QB carousel those teams went through.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
B/c he's not in an ideal situation to be evaluated. Its like testing someone on material you haven't even taught them yet. Can't expect to get their best effort under those circumstances.
I can expect his best efforts on what he does know and how he plays in non ideal situations lets us know how he should perform when situation improves. Quit making excuses for him. We all know the parameters of this season and this roster/coaches.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
But the Broncos didn't win those 3 SBs with Elway's and Manning's arms.
Neither did much during the SB runs.
It was the running game that made it work.
the threats of what those guys could do in the passing game was enough. Hell just the smarts to be able to audible into more favorable plays was enough. You saw that with Manning in the AFCCG against the Pats. 2 early, methodical TD drives when the pats tried to sit on the run game was enough to knock BB out of that strategy. Manning didn’t have to do anything after that.

Kubiak didn’t really trust Schaub to do that.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I can expect his best efforts on what he does know and how he plays in non ideal situations lets us know how he should perform when situation improves. Quit making excuses for him. We all know the parameters of this season and this roster/coaches.
This is silly rationale. You’re not learning **** in the way of him being “your guy” from him being able to run a limited portion of the playbook right now. May as well sit him and and come back next year & open the whole playbook. At that point he won’t really have any excuses.
 

vtech9

Veteran
@steelbtexan I can see where you are coming from about starting Mills the rest of the way, but if TT is healthy, and the Texans still have a shot at the playoffs, you play TT. The only way Mills maintains the starting job when TT comes back is if he is lighting it up, and the coaches feel he gives the team the best chance to win. Doing otherwise would tell the rest of the team that you aren't interested in winning, and would effect morale. These guys are here to win. Even though they know the odds of a winning season are against them, they still want to win. This may be the last chance for some of these players, so if the Texans don't do what gives them the best chance to win, you will lose these players. Culley has done a good job winning over these players, and changing the culture. Giving up on the season would wreck everything Culley has gained.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Lol, this is truly funny coming from you..the guy who looks at things only in black and white. I haven't made up my mind, im simply stating that sitting and letting him learn can't hurt him/us...it actually only helps him/us. This isn't the case in your scenario.
You
And Darnold didn't in NY. Neither did David Carr in HOU. Neither did guys like Alex Smith in SF and a whole host of other young qbs over the years whose potential was ruined before they even got good footing in the NFL b/c a HC was on the hot seat.........or an owner was being tempermental...... or a fan base wanted to "see what they got".

You keep citing the Chargers and its already been explained to you that the Charger team Herbert came into was better set up with Allen, Williams, Bosa, Ekler, Guyton and James already there before Herbert even took over. Lynn didn't stick with Herbert b/c he was trying to "see what he had" and get him experience. He was trying to win. & Herbert reassured him that he was the right guy to stick with going forward with his play by stepping up IMMEDIATELY against the defending champs by putting on a show & sustaining his skill the rest of that season. That's not at all what Mills has done or what we have seen up to this point from.
Seems like with examples you've provided, that switching offensive coordinators every year seems to be the common denominator.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
@steelbtexan I can see where you are coming from about starting Mills the rest of the way, but if TT is healthy, and the Texans still have a shot at the playoffs, you play TT. The only way Mills maintains the starting job when TT comes back is if he is lighting it up, and the coaches feel he gives the team the best chance to win. Doing otherwise would tell the rest of the team that you aren't interested in winning, and would effect morale. These guys are here to win. Even though they know the odds of a winning season are against them, they still want to win. This may be the last chance for some of these players, so if the Texans don't do what gives them the best chance to win, you will lose these players. Culley has done a good job winning over these players, and changing the culture. Giving up on the season would wreck everything Culley has gained.
So if they are 1-4 or 1-5 (likely) when TT makes it back, you think they're making the playoffs?

If so then TT wins the MVP.
 

vtech9

Veteran
So if they are 1-4 or 1-5 (likely) when TT makes it back, you think they're making the playoffs?

If so then TT wins the MVP.
The Texans play in the AFC South. Tennessee is only one game up. Anything can happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the winner of the AFC South has a losing record going into the playoffs. So, at 1-5 with 11 games to go, they still have a good chance of making the playoffs.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So if they are 1-4 or 1-5 (likely) when TT makes it back, you think they're making the playoffs?

If so then TT wins the MVP.
I think the Patriots should be winnable & maybe the Colts even with Davis Mills. We might be 2–3 or 3-2

Do you really want to see Mills against Chandler Jones & Aaron Donald?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
This is silly rationale. You’re not learning **** in the way of him being “your guy” from him being able to run a limited portion of the playbook right now. May as well sit him and and come back next year & open the whole playbook. At that point he won’t really have any excuses.
Sit him was the plan when drafted. He's starting...evaluate him. If you want to use Driskel now.. do it. Wasn't my idea to start Davis Mills.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Sit him was the plan when drafted. He's starting...evaluate him. If you want to use Driskel now.. do it. Wasn't my idea to start Davis Mills.
we have 2 different opinions on “evaluate”. Of course WHILE he’s starting, sure help him get better as best you can. But “evaluating” him in the realm of whether he’s the guy long term or not with what he’s working with, no. He gets a mulligan from me with these starts he’s having to make right now.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Lol, this is truly funny coming from you..the guy who looks at things only in black and white. I haven't made up my mind, im simply stating that sitting and letting him learn can't hurt him/us...it actually only helps him/us. This isn't the case in your scenario.
You said the time to see what Mills has got has already passed. Not me.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is silly rationale. You’re not learning **** in the way of him being “your guy” from him being able to run a limited portion of the playbook right now. May as well sit him and and come back next year & open the whole playbook. At that point he won’t really have any excuses.
Or let him learn more of the playbook each week while under game conditions. Which is exactly what Culley's doing.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Or let him learn more of the playbook each week while under game conditions. Which is exactly what Culley's doing.

the difference is Culley’s not doing it to see what he has like you’re advocating. He’s doing it b/c Mills is the next man up and he’s trying to win. & unless Mills comes out and lights it up…which he hasn’t done up to this point, he most likely will go back to TT for the same reason…b/c TT gives us the best chance to win.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
the difference is Culley’s not doing it to see what he has like you’re advocating. He’s doing it b/c Mills is the next man up and he’s trying to win. & unless Mills comes out and lights it up…which he hasn’t done up to this point, he most likely will go back to TT for the same reason…b/c TT gives us the best chance to win.
We will see,

Culley has gone from TT will be back in 3-4 weeks to we don't know when he will be back.
 

Earl34

All Pro
A LARGE difference between Herbert & Mills.

Herbert - 43 collegiate games
Mills - 13 collegiate games & coming back from injury


There's a big reason Mills went in the 3rd round, and it's because he wasn't viewed as NFL-ready.
With the number of QBs leaving college earlier and earlier. How relevant is the Bill Parcells' QB checklist?
  • Be a three-year starter
  • Be a senior in college
  • Graduate from college
  • Start 30 games
  • Win 23 games
  • Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
  • Complete at least 60 percent of passes thrown
 
Last edited:

Earl34

All Pro
This does not compute. Osweiler was a Bob McNair decision from the get go. Even O'Brien really didn't really want anything to do with Osweiler. Kubiak had nothing to do with Osweiler. What am I missing?
I think he is referring to Osweiler playing for Kubiak in Denver and playing well enough that the Broncos and Texans were willing to give him that contract.

It's just the Texans luck that Osweiler felt disrespected by the Broncos and was not taking their calls. So, Texans were bidding against themselves. SMDH.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
This does not compute. Osweiler was a Bob McNair decision from the get go. Even O'Brien really didn't really want anything to do with Osweiler. Kubiak had nothing to do with Osweiler. What am I missing?
Osweiler was 5-2 with the Broncos that one year.
Manning went 7-2 to start the season before he got injured.
Manning came back for the playoffs and won the SB.
Osweiler has got a ring. :ahhaha:
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Unless you have these guys on record saying that they didn't or wouldn't have benefited from sitting, then you have no case. Fact is, it absolutely can't hurt them if they do sit and learn their rookie years & in the case of at least a few of the guys you listed, Maybe they'd be better if they had sat that 1st year. By contrast starting these guys before they are ready can absolutely hurt them long term not only physically, but mentally in developing bad habits.
Obviously JMO, but for some weird reason I think DM can handle the pressure of starting now. Kid just doesn’t look overwhelmed mentally. Sure he has a lot to learn and this game or the next few may be the good, the bad, and the ugly but sitting a guy that hasn’t played much in the last couple of years seems to just be piling on. I think he’s anxious to get his lumps. I just really think he might be special. Just like his style.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You said the time to see what Mills has got has already passed. Not me.
no. I said ….or at least meant that the time to crown him as the starter going forward for the rest of the season regardless of what is going on with TT has pretty much passed. Him coming out and lighting up Carolina would’ve been a pretty good sign that he was ready to ascend as the starter. He has 1 more opportunity to flash this Sunday imo. If he does not do that, may as well sit him…imo.

in no way am I saying he CANT be that guy for us in the future, I’m just saying for right now, THIS season, you may as well sit him. Next year he gets a real legit shot to EARN it and he’ll in all likelihood be in a better position to really make a run at it.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
no. I said ….or at least meant that the time to crown him as the starter going forward for the rest of the season regardless of what is going on with TT has pretty much passed. Him coming out and lighting up Carolina would’ve been a pretty good sign that he was ready to ascend as the starter. He has 1 more opportunity to flash this Sunday imo. If he does not do that, may as well sit him…imo.

in no way am I saying he CANT be that guy for us in the future, I’m just saying for right now, THIS season, you may as well sit him. Next year he gets a real legit shot to EARN it and he’ll in all likelihood be in a better position to really make a run at it.
I really like TT, that said. And if DM struggles over the next few games prior to TT’s return it’s a no brainer to sit him. But what if he is showing game to game progress? If his lack of prior college starts damned him how could sitting him not add to the damnation? What might be key here is what are the Texans goals for finishing the season?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I really like TT, that said. And if DM struggles over the next few games prior to TT’s return it’s a no brainer to sit him. But what if he is showing game to game progress? If his lack of prior college starts damned him how could sitting him not add to the damnation? What might be key here is what are the Texans goals for finishing the season?
it damned him as a prospect entering the draft…as a prospective developing qb in the NFL, it plays no factor.

and the short term and long term goals for the Texans are very clear…at least to me they are. To win as many games as they can with whomever they decide to trot out as the starter this year. If Mills is the guy for that, so be it. What I’m confident in is that they are not using this season as an extended training camp to find out who has it and who doesn’t…which is what certain guys here are advocating b/c this team isn’t ready to compete for a championship or even the playoffs.

Long term, it’s to build a winning culture with guys who want to be here by accumulating a lot of talent over time………to be in position to win a championship at some point.
 
Last edited:

Dejaview

All Pro
it damned him as a prospect entering the draft…as a prospective developing qb in the NFL, it plays no factor.

and the short term and long term goals for the Texans are very clear…at least to me they are. To win as many games as they can with whomever they decide to trot out as the starter this year. If Mills is the guy for that, so be it. What I’m confident in is that they are not using this season as an extended training camp to find out who has it and who doesn’t…which is what certain guys here are advocating b/c this team isn’t ready to compete for a championship or even the playoffs.

Long term, it’s to build a winning culture with guys who want to be here by accumulating a dearth of talent over time………to be in position to win a championship at some point.
Not going to win much by accumulating a dearth of talent Unless I’m missing something.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Doesn't really matter whether they are 1st round heir apparents like Mahomes/Rodgers or project qbs like Cousins.

Rodgers was drafted in the 1st, but the Packers could've easily just pushed Favre aside considering he was already publically mulling retirement anyway. Brady was a project qb but who knows if he'd be considered what he is today if he'd somehow been forced into the starting role his rookie year & he performed badly or just ok. The benefits of sitting early in your career & learning aren't only just for project qbs & im sure all these guys benefited from it whether they acknowledge or even know it or not.
Totally misses the point. Yes they were in better situations & their teams didn’t make a poor decision because of it.

But the fact is they sat & for all we know are better because of it. Pat Mahomes in particular. His own teammates were calling him trash as a rookie.

No both of you have missed my point which is that each team had another option that as there go to. Those teams had the luxury of letting the rookie sit because they still had a route to take that could lead to winning games. I mean Washington did play their highly drafted rookie that same year, you could make the argument it would have been smarter to play Cousins and let RGIII sit.

Thing is I agree with you that letting a rookie sit is the better route but it’s also the route few teams can afford to take because you have such a tight window where you can actually take a real shot at a championship.

What’s really strange to me is that we are all talking about developing Mills and letting him sit as thought he is our star, franchise QB that we sold the farm for. When the reality is that he was a third round pick and even if he does go down we haven’t honestly lost that much given the normal price of a QB.

Truth is if Mills does become a starter and franchise guy then it will be one of the best examples of talent scouting and coaching the NFL has seen in years because he is a 3rd round QB.

People need to stop acting like just because he was our first pick that he is a round 1 draft pick.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
With the number of QBs leaving college earlier and earlier. How relevant is the Bill Parcells' QB checklist?
  • Be a three-year starter
  • Be a senior in college
  • Graduate from college
  • Start 30 games
  • Win 23 games
  • Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio
  • Complete at least 60 percent of passes thrown
I wonder how many QBs in the last 15 years don’t meet the metrics of the list and succeeded, and how many met the metrics of the list and fail. Success being a franchise QB for a number of years.

It would be interesting.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
no. I said ….or at least meant that the time to crown him as the starter going forward for the rest of the season regardless of what is going on with TT has pretty much passed. Him coming out and lighting up Carolina would’ve been a pretty good sign that he was ready to ascend as the starter. He has 1 more opportunity to flash this Sunday imo. If he does not do that, may as well sit him…imo.

in no way am I saying he CANT be that guy for us in the future, I’m just saying for right now, THIS season, you may as well sit him. Next year he gets a real legit shot to EARN it and he’ll in all likelihood be in a better position to really make a run at it.
I misunderstood the beginning of that post, I took it to mean one thing and you obviously meant another.

You're view is short term, I'm betting unless Mills craps the bed the next couple of weeks, he remains the starter. Why? Because Caserio appears to be taking the long term view.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Thing is I agree with you that letting a rookie sit is the better route but it’s also the route few teams can afford to take because you have such a tight window where you can actually take a real shot at a championship.
1st, I think it's obvious the Texans idea of what Davis Mills is, is different from what I think he is.

But as far as luxury goes, they made their situation what it is. They had the whole offseason to shape their roster.

& as far as the "window" goes, it's open. Wide open. We've got 29 players under contract in 2022.


People need to stop acting like just because he was our first pick that he is a round 1 draft pick.
If he were a 1st round pick I'd want him starting. Clock is ticking.

I'm coming at this as if the guy only played 11 games in the last 4 years. & that the Texans believe he has potential. I don't want them to squander that potential.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I misunderstood the beginning of that post, I took it to mean one thing and you obviously meant another.

You're view is short term, I'm betting unless Mills craps the bed the next couple of weeks, he remains the starter. Why? Because Caserio appears to be taking the long term view.
:hankpalm:WTH are you talking about? the long term view is to sit him and put him in the best position to succeed. Not potentially ruin the kid before he’s had a fair crack at it.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
1st, I think it's obvious the Texans idea of what Davis Mills is, is different from what I think he is.

But as far as luxury goes, they made their situation what it is. They had the whole offseason to shape their roster.

& as far as the "window" goes, it's open. Wide open. We've got 29 players under contract in 2022.




If he were a 1st round pick I'd want him starting. Clock is ticking.

I'm coming at this as if the guy only played 11 games in the last 4 years. & that the Texans believe he has potential. I don't want them to squander that potential.
really not that hard to understand.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
:hankpalm:WTH are you talking about? the long term view is to sit him and put him in the best position to succeed. Not potentially ruin the kid before he’s had a fair crack at it.
Watch and see what happens,

Caserio wants to see what he's got in Mills long term before next offseason. Mills himself said the only way you can really learn the speed of the game is by being out on the field and he was looking forward to the opportunity. He said this on 610 this afternoon.

Only on Texans Talk would members want to sit a promising young QB for an injury prone 12 yr vet.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Watch and see what happens,

Caserio wants to see what he's got in Mills long term before next offseason. Mills himself said the only way you can really learn the speed of the game is by being out on the field and he was looking forward to the opportunity. He said this on 610 this afternoon.

Only on Texans Talk would members want to sit a promising young QB for an injury prone 12 yr vet.
mills is like any other player…he just wants to play. And it’s not Caserio’s call on who plays and who doesn’t. The HC’s name is David Culley Perhaps you’ve heard?

only on Texans talk do fans think the best course of action for a young developing Qb is to just throw him to the wolves just because. There’s not even a reason to be looking at drafting a qb next year if they already feel Mills is that guy.

HC coaches don’t think like that. They only think in terms of who gives them the best chance to win. And if that Mills, so be it.
 
Last edited:

Texian

Hall of Fame
I think he is referring to Osweiler playing for Kubiak in Denver and playing well enough that the Broncos and Texans were willing to give him that contract.

It's just the Texans luck that Osweiler felt disrespected by the Broncos and was not taking their calls. So, Texans were bidding against themselves. SMDH.
Osweiler never played for Kubiak. Osweiler was drafted by Denver in the 2012 NFL draft. Kubiak had already been the Texans HC coach for 6 years by then.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
mills is like any other player…he just wants to play. And it’s not Caserio’s call on who plays and who doesn’t. The HC’s name is David Culley Perhaps you’ve heard?

only on Texans talk do fans think the best course of action for a young developing Qb is to just throw him to the wolves just because. There’s not even a reason to be looking at drafting a qb next year if they already feel Mills is that guy.

HC coaches don’t think like that. They only think in terms of who gives them the best chance to win. And if that Mills, so be it.
Trust me Caserio will be making this call. He .ales the final call on all things in the on field operations. Atleast that's what Cal said. Honestly why do you think a 65yr old 1st time HC would be hired?
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
it damned him as a prospect entering the draft…as a prospective developing qb in the NFL, it plays no factor.

and the short term and long term goals for the Texans are very clear…at least to me they are. To win as many games as they can with whomever they decide to trot out as the starter this year. If Mills is the guy for that, so be it. What I’m confident in is that they are not using this season as an extended training camp to find out who has it and who doesn’t…which is what certain guys here are advocating b/c this team isn’t ready to compete for a championship or even the playoffs.

Long term, it’s to build a winning culture with guys who want to be here by accumulating an abundance of talent over time………to be in position to win a championship at some point.
Some folks can’t just go with the gist.

This season was to be Tyrod Taylor’s with Mills set to learn from the QB2 spot but that got derailed when TT got injured and the nastiest of NFL defenses coming up on the schedule. Mills has faced (2) already and the Bills coming up next. I would say Mills is getting his NFL indoctrination on the toughest path. When TT is healthy Mills can take what he’s learned from being on the field and better understand everything that’s happening while TT’s on the field. I feel like this is going to make him a much better QB by the 2022 off-season and when it comes time to compete with TT for the QB1 spot. I still wouldn’t draft a QB in rounds 1 or 2 in 2022 b/c I think TT and Mills are enough to get the Texans through this part of the rebuild. In my opinion, Caserio found his diamond in the rough in Mills. Let the team get him polished a bit more and Caserio would have finally removed a RD3 hex from the Texans history.

On the future, solid drafts are what set winning teams apart…..Texans have a really crappy track record with the likes of Casserly, Smith and OB at the helm. Gaines should’ve been given a little more time but OB wanted the helm.

It feels like OB and the McNair’s tossed a poison pill in their own well and OB got the entire blame when he was shown the door…..4 years to late.

The McNair’s turned to Nick Caserio, a potential GM Bob coveted for some time, and I’m sure Caserio had seen enough of the Texans shite-show to inform Cal he wouldn’t be coming to Houston without knowing he was the one running and building this team.

Yes, the Texans are in a full rebuild and it’s going to take 2021 and 2022 to clean the well of the poison. Caserio started with a culture change from the coaching staff he hired to the hungry players he brought in to compete. I think the real Cap work will begin in earnest come the 2022 off-season when Caserio has a full draft to work with.

The trading of Watson will certainly add picks in 2022 and 2023. I’ve mentioned a few times, the idea of trading Tunsil by the deadline or the 2022 off-season but have come around to another thought…if the Texans secure a LT in the 2022 draft….the Texans would have Tunsil for this season and maybe as deep as the 2022 trade deadline, where they may even get a bigger haul of picks than moving him this season.

I hope the Texans are in the top 3 picks and not 1-1 since I just don’t see a QB worth drafting as 1-1 and no team willing to trade up for an over-hyped QB. It would remind me of the Clowney situation all over again.
 
Last edited:

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Trust me Caserio will be making this call. He .ales the final call on all things in the on field operations. Atleast that's what Cal said. Honestly why do you think a 65yr old 1st time HC would be hired?
7192B884-B588-496D-B957-0CA0652FE72B.gif

yeah, trust the opinion of a guy who can’t even admit when he’s dead as wrong about simple ****? Ok.

Caserio I’m sure will have his thoughts, but ultimately it’s DC’s call. All that other crap in your post…is irrelevant nonsense.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
It was too early to start a game thread. We can reboot on Sunday.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Top