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Week 4: at Buffalo

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maverick512000

Hall of Fame
suckage?….but I don’t think you can blame that on BoB, the other thing they had in common. I think they would’ve been bad no matter who their coach was.
Hard to say, I'm not in the "Blame OB for everything camp" but it certainly his being so ridged about the QBs didn't help. Now that being said Osweiler got bounced to every team under the sun. Savage I do blame OB for because after holding a clip board for 3 years no NFL QB should look that under prepared, ok yeah Savage may not have ever been a quality QB but the coaching staff should have seen that after year 2. So yes they were bad but there was also nothing to really help them get better either.

Now to tie this back into the thread topic so the mods don't get mad. Mills in comparison seems to be given a chance by Culley and his staff to actually develop even if its live fire training. Could be Mills is better, could be Culley is better, could be just both are better but even when we lose I'm seeing improvement that I like. I think the Pills will be more of the same, I don't expect to win but I do expect to see some more improvement and for Mills to feel more comfortable. This is actually what I was hoping for this season to maybe get an idea what we have in Mills before the draft where we maybe in play for a QB. I always hated that about Savage that we never knew what we had till we were 3 years in.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
limited data set & better overall talent on the team did that more so than Kubiak
Fooled the Texans. :ahhaha:

But seriously; I had watched all the games.
Granted; that was why I a buyer beware notice at time.
But Kubiak did a good job.
He never exposed Oz' long winded throwing motion with a deep pass from inside the pocket (no chance for a stripped fumble) for example.
That would be done on a play action fake, bootleg where Oz can see if there's a defender closing in on him.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Kubiak has a history of building "QB friendly" offenses. I think he does a great job at keeping things simple and doesn't ask too much from his QBs.
Fooled the Texans. :ahhaha:

But seriously; I had watched all the games.
Granted; that was why I a buyer beware notice at time.
But Kubiak did a good job.
He never exposed Oz' long winded throwing motion with a deep pass from inside the pocket (no chance for a stripped fumble) for example.
That would be done on a play action fake, bootleg where Oz can see if there's a defender closing in on him.
Agreed on both accounts. But when the playoffs hit, you can't run qb friendly offenses. Good defenses take away that "friendly" scheme part of the offense the playcaller provides. This is why he could never do much with Schaub here in the playoffs & why he ultimately went back to Manning in Denver. Even though he was hobbled, his mind was still very much advanced enough that even physically hampered, he was still a better option as a playmaker to go with over Osweiler.

& i don't think it was necessarily that he fooled the Texans (& alot of other teams according to reports) so much as it shows you the desperation of teams to find that franchise guy that they are willing to overlook what they might see on tape to find that guy. Besides, Oz isn't the 1st back up qb that fooled a team based on a good but small body of work. **** happens every other year damn near with Ryan Fitzpatrick & Nick Foles :laughjump: .

Rob Johnson
Matt Moore
Derek Anderson
Sage Rosenfels
 
happens every other year damn near with Ryan Fitzpatrick & Nick Foles :laughjump: .
I don't think Foles fairly fits that description. When he went to Jacksonville he was hurt not long after he started. He threw a perfect TD pass and was hurt right after. Gardiner Minshew came in and did a decent job but it's not like he was Tom Brady or Kurt Warner. The Jaguars were hardly well coached and it is not as if they were anything like the the Eagles team Nick Foles led to a title.

Nick Foles went from bad to worse when he wound up with the Chicago Bears. He was underutilized and took a beating behind one of the worst offensive lines in all of the NFL.

I am not saying Nick Foles is a future HOF quarterback but he is better than a lot of people are willing to acknowledge. I know Nick Foles has not earned the right to be able to choose what team he is traded to but I also don't blame Nick for wanting to wind up in a better situation than he is in now. He has shown that with an at least solid overall offense he can do well and win games. If he plays in the Bears next game he won't do so well but it won't be due to him not having the talent. The Bears look more like a place where quarterbacks go to end their careers. It surely is not the place where they jumpstart them.

On a side note, I like Justin Fields potential but unless there are some serious changes, his confidence could be rocked and he will be done almost as fast as he gets started.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Agreed on both accounts. But when the playoffs hit, you can't run qb friendly offenses. Good defenses take away that "friendly" scheme part of the offense the playcaller provides. This is why he could never do much with Schaub here in the playoffs & why he ultimately went back to Manning in Denver. Even though he was hobbled, his mind was still very much advanced enough that even physically hampered, he was still a better option as a playmaker to go with over Osweiler.

& i don't think it was necessarily that he fooled the Texans (& alot of other teams according to reports) so much as it shows you the desperation of teams to find that franchise guy that they are willing to overlook what they might see on tape to find that guy. Besides, Oz isn't the 1st back up qb that fooled a team based on a good but small body of work. **** happens every other year damn near with Ryan Fitzpatrick & Nick Foles :laughjump: .

Rob Johnson
Matt Moore
Derek Anderson
Sage Rosenfels
Fitz has a large body of work though.
He ain't fooling nobody.
A good journeyman QB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think the next two games will be telling. The Texans simplified the game plans for Mills, which I think is good coaching, whereas the other rookie qb's were asked more of. This could be reflected by their performances.

The Texans are going to open the playbook for Mills starting Sunday and how he responds will be the best test and indication of his skills so far this season. McClain just said on 610 he expects Mills to have 2 INT's.
Agreed, and I hope McClain's wrong about the 2 ints.

There's no doubt there will be growing pains. I'm looking forward to the journey.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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he has looked fine considering the circumstances. The other guys:

Lawrence is in a hopeless situation…but he’s not helping himself either with some of the absolute horrible throws he’s been making. I still expect to see him be much better by next year…..or after Meyer is fired b/c it’s clear he doesn’t know what he’s doing on this level.

Same for Wilson, although I wasn’t a huge fan of his to begin with. Sure he has the arm talent, I just don’t believe he’ll ever be able to put it together..at least enough to be a franchise altering qb. I think he was over drafted and I expect that by the time his time is up with the jets, he’ll be a career backup who can do some thing on the order of Keenum in the right situation, but will never be a guy that can elevate a team as a franchise qb. Watched his 1st 2 games, Right now he has no touch. Everything is a rocket & he holds the ball way too long at times….for a guy who doesn’t have the requisite athleticism to get away from defenders like a Wilson or Rodgers does…2 guys who i think he plays like.

Fields…he will blossom once Nagy/Pace are finally fired and they bring in folks to build around his skill set. Last week was an abomination of a gameplan by Nagy. Kid had no chance to do anything and I don’t blame him for his performance.

Lance, too early and he hasn’t shown much, but I don’t think SF really upgraded from Grappolo. Lance can do some things Jimmy G just can’t, but I believe Lance is a downgrade in the arm department. And I think he’ll wind up hurt more often than not b/c his 1st instinct is to run…& Shanahan will also run him a lot too.

Overall, Mills is actually in the best position of all these guys to develop normally. It will be up to him to keep progressing tho.
It's way too early to make this judgement about Meyer/Lawrence. Although I doubt Lawrence is all that after playing in that Clemson trash offense. Best case scenario is he turns out as good as you're Pervert.

Wilson plays for the NYJ, enough said, but like Darnold I think life will be better for him after he escapes New York..

Fields isn't that good. He's not as good as your Pervert, but he will be a starting QB for a long time in the NFL. Is he a championship level QB? He wasn't in college when he had the better team but maybe he will get better.

Lance, who knows but considering his background I would guess no.

Jones- Has the best chance for success.

Mills- Funny how many on this MB talk about how the Texans suck at all positions, but Mills has the best chance to succeed being lead by a 65 yr old HC. But after seeing the 1st 6 qtrs of his career I tend to agree with your assessment other than Jones.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I actually think that despite the tough sled of defenses he’s having to face, this will overall be more helpful for his development. Cause after these defenses, it’ll be much easier, save for the Rams that is. But at that point TT might be back.
At that point do you continue to play Mills or do you put TT back in?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Fitz has a large body of work though.
He ain't fooling nobody.
A good journeyman QB.
im talking at the beginning of his career. He was a back up and Then started a handful of games for the Rams and showed a little promise, so Buffalo gave him a bunch of money and brought him on as a starter after the JP Losman failure.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Depends on how Mills looks over the next 3 weeks.

If he's showing weekly improvement or potential to be the QB of the future, then I go with Mills.
If he gives me the better chance to win, I’d go with Mills, otherwise TT.

not that I think we’re going to the playoffs, but until we’re mathematically out my goal is to win games, or at least try to win.

If I’m Caserio, I’m paying these coaches to prepare players & put them in position to win. I want to know if Myles Smith (among others) know how to coach to win, or if they just happen to know the right people.
 

steelbtexan

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If he gives me the better chance to win, I’d go with Mills, otherwise TT.

not that I think we’re going to the playoffs, but until we’re mathematically out my goal is to win games, or at least try to win.

If I’m Caserio, I’m paying these coaches to prepare players & put them in position to win. I want to know if Myles Smith (among others) know how to coach to win, or if they just happen to know the right people.
For me, the rest of this season should be about finding out if Mills is the QB of the future.
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
i mentally prepared for that L lets just have a good game with no injuries football gods plz .....

39-12 bills
 

thunderkyss

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For me, the rest of this season should be about finding out if Mills is the QB of the future.
We got a long way to go before that’s relevant.

if Mills is your QB of the future your 4 year window is already open & you’ve got to win a Super Bowl before 2025 when he’s eating up more than 13% of your salary cap.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
he has looked fine considering the circumstances. The other guys:

Lawrence is in a hopeless situation…but he’s not helping himself either with some of the absolute horrible throws he’s been making. I still expect to see him be much better by next year…..or after Meyer is fired b/c it’s clear he doesn’t know what he’s doing on this level.

Same for Wilson, although I wasn’t a huge fan of his to begin with. Sure he has the arm talent, I just don’t believe he’ll ever be able to put it together..at least enough to be a franchise altering qb. I think he was over drafted and I expect that by the time his time is up with the jets, he’ll be a career backup who can do some thing on the order of Keenum in the right situation, but will never be a guy that can elevate a team as a franchise qb. Watched his 1st 2 games, Right now he has no touch. Everything is a rocket & he holds the ball way too long at times….for a guy who doesn’t have the requisite athleticism to get away from defenders like a Wilson or Rodgers does…2 guys who i think he plays like.

Fields…he will blossom once Nagy/Pace are finally fired and they bring in folks to build around his skill set. Last week was an abomination of a gameplan by Nagy. Kid had no chance to do anything and I don’t blame him for his performance.

Lance, too early and he hasn’t shown much, but I don’t think SF really upgraded from Grappolo. Lance can do some things Jimmy G just can’t, but I believe Lance is a downgrade in the arm department. And I think he’ll wind up hurt more often than not b/c his 1st instinct is to run…& Shanahan will also run him a lot too.

Overall, Mills is actually in the best position of all these guys to develop normally. It will be up to him to keep progressing tho.
How do you compare Zach Wilson's quarterback coach to Pep? Would Zack be better on this roster behind this oline?
 

steelbtexan

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We got a long way to go before that’s relevant.

if Mills is your QB of the future your 4 year window is already open & you’ve got to win a Super Bowl before 2025 when he’s eating up more than 13% of your salary cap.
True, which is why they need to find out as quickly as possible. BTW, You can write the 2nd contract so that the window stays open for up to 6 yrs. Sorry if you dont want to acknowledge history.
 
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TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I don't think Foles fairly fits that description. When he went to Jacksonville he was hurt not long after he started. He threw a perfect TD pass and was hurt right after. Gardiner Minshew came in and did a decent job but it's not like he was Tom Brady or Kurt Warner. The Jaguars were hardly well coached and it is not as if they were anything like the the Eagles team Nick Foles led to a title.

Nick Foles went from bad to worse when he wound up with the Chicago Bears. He was underutilized and took a beating behind one of the worst offensive lines in all of the NFL.

I am not saying Nick Foles is a future HOF quarterback but he is better than a lot of people are willing to acknowledge. I know Nick Foles has not earned the right to be able to choose what team he is traded to but I also don't blame Nick for wanting to wind up in a better situation than he is in now. He has shown that with an at least solid overall offense he can do well and win games. If he plays in the Bears next game he won't do so well but it won't be due to him not having the talent. The Bears look more like a place where quarterbacks go to end their careers. It surely is not the place where they jumpstart them.

On a side note, I like Justin Fields potential but unless there are some serious changes, his confidence could be rocked and he will be done almost as fast as he gets started.
Jay Cutler holds most of the franchise records for the Bears. That really tells you all you need to know about the Bears QB history.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
Jay Cutler holds most of the franchise records for the Bears. That really tells you all you need to know about the Bears QB history.
The Bears better get Fields some protection if they ever want to give him a chance at breaking those records. Wonder where they could find a quality LT to start that process? The price would be nominal but palatable.

How about CB Jaylen Johnson (Rookie Contract), 2022 RD1 pick, and 2023 RD2.
 

steelbtexan

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The Bears better get Fields some protection if they ever want to give him a chance at breaking those records. Wonder where they could find a quality LT to start that process? The price would be nominal but palatable.

How about CB Jaylen Johnson (Rookie Contract), 2022 RD1 pick, and 2023 RD2.
The Bears gave up their 2022 1st in the Fields deal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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That’s right….missed it. Nevertheless, CB- Jaylen Johnson could be a strong addition while factoring in the picks the Bears would have to give up in as a deal.
What do you want for Tunsil?

You do know that Johnson has a history of shoulder injuries?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
True, which is why they need to find out as quickly as possible. BTW, You can write the 2nd contract so that the window stays open for up to 6 yrs. Sorry if you dont want to acknowledge history.
Don't understand why everyone feels they have to find out now what he is right now. There really is no rush. None of these qbs coming out this year have been impressive thus far & This team is so devoid of talent right now, it's unfair to attempt to even grade him against what he has to work with. Plus rushing to find out if he's your guy could also potentially get him seriously hurt..& if that happens late enough in the season, you still won't really know what you have & are in the same predicament for the draft and upcoming season as you would be if you put him back on the bench when TT returns. That's not even mentioning what all that could potentially do to his confidence.

T-skyss alluded to it earlier, but i'll expand on it, If TT's available its pretty likely he still gives us the best chance to win, so im going back to him regardless of how Mills looks. Its not like TT lost the job for poor play. Apart from that you don't have to worry about a qb controversy. Mills will get a legitimate shot next year to compete for the starting gig, the talent around him should be better & if TT is still around, we know from his past that he's not a guy that will raise a stink if the FO decides to go with Mills over him.
 
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dream_team

Hall of Fame
True, which is why they need to find out as quickly as possible. BTW, You can write the 2nd contract so that the window stays open for up to 6 yrs. Sorry if you dont want to acknowledge history.
You run a big risk by playing Mills too early just to find out if he's the one.

Mills came out of college too early. He wasn't ready for the NFL quite yet. But he slipped in the draft and we were able to get him in the 3rd round because he wasn't ready.

The plan was to "red-shirt" him this season. That plan shouldn't change. When TT comes back, he should start.

Stick to the original plan and give Mills a fair shot next season. With that being said, we should still be looking to draft another QB in the next draft.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Don't understand why everyone feels they have to find out now what he is right now. There really is no rush. None of these qbs coming out this year have been impressive thus far & This team is so devoid of talent right now, it's unfair to attempt to even grade him against what he has to work with. Plus rushing to find out if he's your guy could also potentially get him seriously hurt..& if that happens late enough in the season, you still won't really know what you have & are in the same predicament for the draft and upcoming season as you would be if you put him back on the bench when TT returns. That's not even mentioning what all that could potentially do to his confidence.

T-skyss alluded to it earlier, but i'll expand on it, If TT's available its pretty likely he still gives us the best chance to win, so im going back to him regardless of how Mills looks. Its not like TT lost the job for poor play. Apart from that you don't have to worry about a qb controversy. Mills will get a legitimate shot next year to compete for the starting gig & if TT is still around next year, we know from his past that he's not a guy that will raise a stink if the FO decides to go with Mills over him.
I agree. Throwing out young guys, that aren't ready, into the "fire" just to find out if he can play is not an approach I can get behind. The plan was to have him be a backup this season, so let's stick to that plan, until the coaches think he's ready to run this offense at 100% capacity.
 

vtech9

Veteran
I've seen enough already to know that, barring a major injury, I would rather stick with TT and Mills next season than taking one of the available QB's with a high 1st round pick in the 2022 draft. I just don't see many QB's in the '22 draft that are 1st round worthy, and none that are top 5 worthy.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I agree. Throwing out young guys, that aren't ready, into the "fire" just to find out if he can play is not an approach I can get behind. The plan was to have him be a backup this season, so let's stick to that plan, until the coaches think he's ready to run this offense at 100% capacity.
here's a list of current starting qb's who mostly sat their rookie years:

Mahomes
Rodgers
Brady
Cousins
Garapolo

Not bad. I've always favored sitting guys their rookie years..at least the majority of their rookie years anyway. Sitting, learning how to be a pro qb..learning how to study film on the pro level is a job unto itself..let alone trying to do all that & putting it all together on game day. I would contend that if most teams sat their potential franchise guys instead of molding & simplfying their offenses around them you'd see better pro-style qb play from these young guys much sooner b/c the game for the most part is just too fast for alot of these guys.
 
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maverick512000

Hall of Fame
here's a list of current starting qb's who mostly sat their rookie years:

Mahomes
Rodgers
Brady
Cousins
Garapolo

Not bad. I've always favored sitting guys their rookie years..at least the majority of their rookie years anyway. Sitting, learning how to be a pro qb..learning how to study film on the pro level is a job unto itself..let alone trying to do all that & putting it all together on game day. I would contend that if most teams sat their potential franchise guys instead of molding & simplfying their offenses around them you'd see better pro-style qb play from these young guys much sooner b/c the game for the most part is just too fast for alot of these guys.
I get your point but your examples are bad.

Mahomes - Chiefs had Alex Smith who had been their QB for years and was very solid (Not counting when Watt ran over him)

Rodgers - Packers had Favre, enough said

Brady - Drafted in the 6th round and was hoped to be a project QB at best.

Cousins - Drafted in the 4th round by Washington AFTER they had drafted RGIII with the 2nd overall pick (Who by the way they did play his rookie year)

Garoppolo - Patriots had Brady, enough said
 

steelbtexan

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Don't understand why everyone feels they have to find out now what he is right now. There really is no rush. None of these qbs coming out this year have been impressive thus far & This team is so devoid of talent right now, it's unfair to attempt to even grade him against what he has to work with. Plus rushing to find out if he's your guy could also potentially get him seriously hurt..& if that happens late enough in the season, you still won't really know what you have & are in the same predicament for the draft and upcoming season as you would be if you put him back on the bench when TT returns. That's not even mentioning what all that could potentially do to his confidence.

T-skyss alluded to it earlier, but i'll expand on it, If TT's available its pretty likely he still gives us the best chance to win, so im going back to him regardless of how Mills looks. Its not like TT lost the job for poor play. Apart from that you don't have to worry about a qb controversy. Mills will get a legitimate shot next year to compete for the starting gig, the talent around him should be better & if TT is still around, we know from his past that he's not a guy that will raise a stink if the FO decides to go with Mills over him.
When Collins/Amendola get back what more talent do you want to put around Mills and how would you go about acquiring this talent? How long would you want to sit Mills and unless you think Mills is going to get hurt playing behind this OL, then there's no real reason to not start Mills. IMHO Of course you might be able to win a couple of more and go say 6-11 with TT. (Maybe) But what have you really accomplished this yr except getting a lower draft pick and still not knowing if Mills is the future. Injury to the Pervert was why I wanted Savage to start over your Pervert in his rookie season, because I knew how bad that OL was. Do you think the OL is anywhere near as bad as that OL? If you think the OL is that bad then you're concerns are valid. I dont think the OL is anywhere near as bad as the OL RS neglected during the Perverts rookie yr. Of course I also dont want another Carr situation.

The way I see itis if Mills looks promising after facing 3 of the top defenses in the NFL (We know he's going to start because TT's hurt) then they should continue to let him start against lesser defenses and gain badly needed experience, even if it means losing a couple of games you would've won with TT. The reward is worth the cost. IMHO

You probably would've started TT over Herbert when TT got healthy last yr. Instead Herbert (Under Pep's guidance) got the experience he badly needed, his team finished 5-11 and because of that Telasco was able to add 2 premium players in the draft (Slater/Samuel) and another couple of premium players in FA (Linsley/Fieler) and all of the sudden the Chargers are 1 of the best teams in the NFL. IMHO This wouldn't have happened without Herbert being allowed to go through the growing pains stage (he's still going through some of this) if he didn't see live action. I guess after seeing Mills the other night, he had the poise and toughness I'm looking for as foundational building blocks. Time will tell if he learns to read defenses, gets his timing with his receivers and throws with accuracy/anticipation, but the 1st glance of Mills game certainly looked promising. If he throws a couple of ints in games against the Bills/Pats I will see this as part of the learning process. If he's still making the same mistakes at the end of the yr then I bring in competition. But you cant find this out unless he plays.
 

thunderkyss

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Not bad. I've always favored sitting guys their rookie years..at least the majority of their rookie years anyway.
Especially this guy. Only 11 college starts. My focus would be more on developing him, than finding out how good he is now.

Most of that development shouldn't be during real games. If there's nothing to play for, I can understand. & Mills has looked capable of protecting himself on the field, so there is that. But I would think they would want to develop him in a more controlled environment.
 

steelbtexan

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I get your point but your examples are bad.

Mahomes - Chiefs had Alex Smith who had been their QB for years and was very solid (Not counting when Watt ran over him)

Rodgers - Packers had Favre, enough said

Brady - Drafted in the 6th round and was hoped to be a project QB at best.

Cousins - Drafted in the 4th round by Washington AFTER they had drafted RGIII with the 2nd overall pick (Who by the way they did play his rookie year)

Garoppolo - Patriots had Brady, enough said
Yep, totally different situations.
 

thunderkyss

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IMHO Of course you might be able to win a couple of more and go say 6-11 with TT. (Maybe) But what have you really accomplished this yr except getting a lower draft pick and still not knowing if Mills is the future.
I don't think the Texans need to be in the developing QBs business right now. Their focus needs to be on finding out what they have as far as coaches just as much as QB. I don't want to be telling them & the players to go out there & try to win games, but I'm going to handcuff you with a rookie QB when I have a QB capable of winning games healthy & ready to play.

Same thing with the Players. I want them playing to win games & not trying to put up personal highlight reels.
 
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