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Week 4: at Buffalo

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steelbtexan

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I agree. Throwing out young guys, that aren't ready, into the "fire" just to find out if he can play is not an approach I can get behind. The plan was to have him be a backup this season, so let's stick to that plan, until the coaches think he's ready to run this offense at 100% capacity.
You've already done this damage if his psyche is this frail by putting him out there against what are going to probably be the top 3 defenses the Texans will face this yr. Let him learn more of the offense each week as he gets used to the speed of the NFL under game conditions. Which is really the only way to learn the speed of the NFL game. This cant be simulated in practice conditions.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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You probably would've started TT over Herbert when TT got healthy last yr. Instead Herbert (Under Pep's guidance) got the experience he badly needed, his team finished 5-11 and because of that Telasco was able to add 2 premium players in the draft (Slater/Samuel) and another couple
Herbert played a lot more than 11 games in college. Herbert impressed when he was on the field. Mills hasn't yet. It's more like, eh... he don't look bad.

The only way I would continue to play Mills, is if the running game gets a whole lot better than it is. Where it takes a lot off Mills' plate & he can manage games & we still have a reasonable chance of winning the game. Winning is the most important thing here. At least trying to win, from the top of the organization to the bottom.
 

Double Barrel

Clown Hunter
Staff member
Agreed on both accounts. But when the playoffs hit, you can't run qb friendly offenses. Good defenses take away that "friendly" scheme part of the offense the playcaller provides. This is why he could never do much with Schaub here in the playoffs & why he ultimately went back to Manning in Denver. Even though he was hobbled, his mind was still very much advanced enough that even physically hampered, he was still a better option as a playmaker to go with over Osweiler.
That's a bit revisionist. Kubiak has four championship rings with that offense as a coordinator, QB coach, and head coach.

He could never go far in the playoffs with Schaub because they lacked a good defense, and when the finally had one, Schaub was broken.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
When Collins/Amendola get back what more talent do you want to put around Mills and how would you go about acquiring this talent? How long would you want to sit Mills and unless you think Mills is going to get hurt playing behind this OL, then there's no real reason to not start Mills. IMHO Of course you might be able to win a couple of more and go say 6-11 with TT. (Maybe) But what have you really accomplished this yr except getting a lower draft pick and still not knowing if Mills is the future. Injury to the Pervert was why I wanted Savage to start over your Pervert in his rookie season, because I knew how bad that OL was. Do you think the OL is anywhere near as bad as that OL? If you think the OL is that bad then you're concerns are valid. I dont think the OL is anywhere near as bad as the OL RS neglected during the Perverts rookie yr. Of course I also dont want another Carr situation.

The way I see itis if Mills looks promising after facing 3 of the top defenses in the NFL (We know he's going to start because TT's hurt) then they should continue to let him start against lesser defenses and gain badly needed experience, even if it means losing a couple of games you would've won with TT. The reward is worth the cost. IMHO

You probably would've started TT over Herbert when TT got healthy last yr. Instead Herbert (Under Pep's guidance) got the experience he badly needed, his team finished 5-11 and because of that Telasco was able to add 2 premium players in the draft (Slater/Samuel) and another couple of premium players in FA (Linsley/Fieler) and all of the sudden the Chargers are 1 of the best teams in the NFL. IMHO This wouldn't have happened without Herbert being allowed to go through the growing pains stage (he's still going through some of this) if he didn't see live action. I guess after seeing Mills the other night, he had the poise and toughness I'm looking for as foundational building blocks. Time will tell if he learns to read defenses, gets his timing with his receivers and throws with accuracy/anticipation, but the 1st glance of Mills game certainly looked promising. If he throws a couple of ints in games against the Bills/Pats I will see this as part of the learning process. If he's still making the same mistakes at the end of the yr then I bring in competition. But you cant find this out unless he plays.
A LARGE difference between Herbert & Mills.

Herbert - 43 collegiate games
Mills - 13 collegiate games & coming back from injury

There's a big reason Mills went in the 3rd round, and it's because he wasn't viewed as NFL-ready.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
A LARGE difference between Herbert & Mills.

Herbert - 43 collegiate games
Mills - 13 collegiate games & coming back from injury

There's a big reason Mills went in the 3rd round, and it's because he wasn't viewed as NFL-ready.
When was Mills injured?
 

steelbtexan

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I don't think the Texans need to be in the developing QBs business right now. Their focus needs to be on finding out what they have as far as coaches just as much as QB. I don't want to be telling them & the players to go out there & try to win games, but I'm going to handcuff you with a rookie QB when I have a QB capable of winning games healthy & ready to play.

Same thing with the Players. I want them playing to win games & not trying to put up personal highlight reels.
When do you want to get into the QB development business. Caserio will find out about his coaching staff if they can develop Mills/Collins etc.. this yr or over the next couple of yrs. You want to win and rebuild, I get this. But it ain't happening with this group going against this schedule. So let the youngsters development begin. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try to win games.

Agreed about the players/highlight reel thingy. I think that part of this franchise has left or will be leaving Kirby within the next calender yr.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I get your point but your examples are bad.

Mahomes - Chiefs had Alex Smith who had been their QB for years and was very solid (Not counting when Watt ran over him)

Rodgers - Packers had Favre, enough said

Brady - Drafted in the 6th round and was hoped to be a project QB at best.

Cousins - Drafted in the 4th round by Washington AFTER they had drafted RGIII with the 2nd overall pick (Who by the way they did play his rookie year)

Garoppolo - Patriots had Brady, enough said
Doesn't really matter whether they are 1st round heir apparents like Mahomes/Rodgers or project qbs like Cousins.

Rodgers was drafted in the 1st, but the Packers could've easily just pushed Favre aside considering he was already publically mulling retirement anyway. Brady was a project qb but who knows if he'd be considered what he is today if he'd somehow been forced into the starting role his rookie year & he performed badly or just ok. The benefits of sitting early in your career & learning aren't only just for project qbs & im sure all these guys benefited from it whether they acknowledge or even know it or not.
 

steelbtexan

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A LARGE difference between Herbert & Mills.

Herbert - 43 collegiate games
Mills - 13 collegiate games & coming back from injury

There's a big reason Mills went in the 3rd round, and it's because he wasn't viewed as NFL-ready.
Is sitting him on the bench after facing the 3 best defenses in the NFL really going to help him or do you think it will hurt his development? I'm guessing the latter. Also what if he looks really good or atleast like he's the best rookie QB in this draft over these 3 games? What do you do then? I keep letting him learn under live action. Things should get easier against lesser defenses.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Is sitting him on the bench after facing the 3 best defenses in the NFL really going to help him or do you think it will hurt his development? I'm guessing the latter. Also what if he looks really good or atleast like he's the best rookie QB in this draft over these 3 games? What do you do then? I keep letting him learn under live action. Things should get easier against lesser defenses.
Let's focus on keeping him upright in the next few games, shall we?
 

steelbtexan

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Doesn't really matter whether they are 1st round heir apparents like Mahomes/Rodgers or project qbs like Cousins.

Rodgers was drafted in the 1st, but the Packers could've easily just pushed Favre aside considering he was already publically mulling retirement anyway. Brady was a project qb but who knows if he'd be considered what he is today if he'd somehow been forced into the starting role his rookie year & he performed badly or just ok. The benefits of sitting early in your career & learning aren't only just for project qbs & im sure all these guys benefited from it whether they acknowledge or even know it or not.
The last sentence says all that needs to be said about your thought process.

You know better than the QB's that were doing the sitting. However I can point just as many or more QB's that started as rookies and had successful careers. Not just the Manning's/Lucks etc... Cousins/Wilson/Carr etc... were rookie starters and have all had successful careers and were drafted outside of the 1st rd
 

steelbtexan

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Herbert played a lot more than 11 games in college. Herbert impressed when he was on the field. Mills hasn't yet. It's more like, eh... he don't look bad.

The only way I would continue to play Mills, is if the running game gets a whole lot better than it is. Where it takes a lot off Mills' plate & he can manage games & we still have a reasonable chance of winning the game. Winning is the most important thing here. At least trying to win, from the top of the organization to the bottom.
Just because you start Mills doesn't mean you aren't trying to win games.

How many more games do you think they will win with TT playing QB and most importantly how do you think winning those games will affect the future of the Texans in a positive or negative way?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
When Collins/Amendola get back what more talent do you want to put around Mills and how would you go about acquiring this talent? How long would you want to sit Mills and unless you think Mills is going to get hurt playing behind this OL, then there's no real reason to not start Mills. IMHO Of course you might be able to win a couple of more and go say 6-11 with TT. (Maybe) But what have you really accomplished this yr except getting a lower draft pick and still not knowing if Mills is the future. Injury to the Pervert was why I wanted Savage to start over your Pervert in his rookie season, because I knew how bad that OL was. Do you think the OL is anywhere near as bad as that OL? If you think the OL is that bad then you're concerns are valid. I dont think the OL is anywhere near as bad as the OL RS neglected during the Perverts rookie yr. Of course I also dont want another Carr situation.
IMO you've already missed the opportunity to really know if Mills is 1 of the very few rookie qbs who is ready to go & start now. That opportunity came and went last Thursday & i don't think any of us are expecting him to light it up against the Bills....B/c that's really the only CLEAR CUT way you're going to know that you have your guy...Go light it up and win us some games against tough opponents...at the very least compete. What's he going to prove going against worse defenses after this Bills game? That's he can play well against bad teams & look shitty vs top ones? We already had that fools gold with Schaub.

You continue to trot him out there with nothing around him and as a rookie who only started 11 total games in his college career that doesn't really know how to protect himself out there.............. he's gonna eventually get hurt; really has nothing to do with the o-line. Teams will come after him simply b/c he's a rookie...& they know how rookies like to hold the ball. Sure there were some good things he did against Car, but i think overall, its clear he's not ready to put forth his best effort...& as a fan of him, this team & its future, you should want that more than anything. He won't get that with the talent he is surround with right now. So Starting him now just to "See what you got" is very short-sighted.

Yes i would've went back to TT when he got healthy. That doesn't mean that Herbert still wouldn't have come into this season balling out the same way he started last year...maybe he comes out better this year b/c of it. As outlined in the thread, Herbert came into a very stocked team talent wise. Everyone that is there now making plays for him was there 2 years prior to him showing up & they went 12-4. There's no comparing his & Mills' overall situation. The cupboard is bare for Mills right now. Herbert spent 3 years as a starter. Mills 11 total games started in his career. The experience angle is a weak argument considering He's already getting it out of necessity now & he's not really showing that the coaching staff weren't right to start TT over him.


Furthermore, This is not about just next years draft. There's a draft every year & there's always the potential to get another QB every year & we need talent and help at a number of positions outside of qb. There's just simply no credible reason to rush him into the starting role.


Bottom line is the overall risks outweigh the rewards of continuing to trot him out there when you don't necessarily have to.
 
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thunderkyss

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I get your point but your examples are bad.

Mahomes - Chiefs had Alex Smith who had been their QB for years and was very solid (Not counting when Watt ran over him)

Rodgers - Packers had Favre, enough said

Brady - Drafted in the 6th round and was hoped to be a project QB at best.

Cousins - Drafted in the 4th round by Washington AFTER they had drafted RGIII with the 2nd overall pick (Who by the way they did play his rookie year)

Garoppolo - Patriots had Brady, enough said
Totally misses the point. Yes they were in better situations & their teams didn’t make a poor decision because of it.

But the fact is they sat & for all we know are better because of it. Pat Mahomes in particular. His own teammates were calling him trash as a rookie.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The last sentence says all that needs to be said about your thought process.

You know better than the QB's that were doing the sitting. However I can point just as many or more QB's that started as rookies and had successful careers. Not just the Manning's/Lucks etc... Cousins/Wilson/Carr etc... were rookie starters and have all had successful careers and were drafted outside of the 1st rd
Unless you have these guys on record saying that they didn't or wouldn't have benefited from sitting, then you have no case. Fact is, it absolutely can't hurt them if they do sit and learn their rookie years & in the case of at least a few of the guys you listed, Maybe they'd be better if they had sat that 1st year. By contrast starting these guys before they are ready can absolutely hurt them long term not only physically, but mentally in developing bad habits.
 

steelbtexan

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IMO you've already missed the opportunity to really know if Mills is 1 of the very few rookie qbs who is ready to go & start now. That opportunity came and went last Thursday & i don't think any of us are expecting him to light it up against the Bills....B/c that's really the only way you're going to know somewhat that you have your guy. & what's he going to prove going against worse defenses after this Bills game? That's he can play well against bad teams & look shitty vs top ones? We already had that fools gold with Schaub.

You continue to trot him out there with nothing around him and as a rookie who only started 11 total games in his college career that doesn't really know how to protect himself out there.............. he's gonna eventually get hurt; really has nothing to do with the o-line. Teams will come after him simply b/c he's a rookie...& they know how rookies like to hold the ball. Sure there were some good things he did against Car, but i think overall, its clear he's not ready to put forth his best effort...& as a fan of him, this team & its future, you should want that more than anything. He won't get that with the talent he is surround with right now. So Starting him now just to "See what you got" is very short-sighted.

Yes i would've went back to TT when he got healthy. That doesn't mean that Herbert still wouldn't have come into this season balling out the same way he started last year. As outlined in the thread, Herbert came into a very stocked team talent wise. Everyone that is there now making plays for him was there 2 years prior to him showing up & they went 12-4. There's no comparing his & Mills' overall situation. The cupboard is bare for Mills right now. Herbert spent 3 years as a starter. Mills 11 total games started in his career. The experience angle is a weak argument considering He's already getting it out of necessity now & he's not really showing that the coaching staff weren't right to start TT over him.


Furthermore, This is not about just next years draft. There's a draft every year & there's always the potential to get another QB every year. There's just simply no credible reason to rush him into the starting role.


Bottom line is the overall risks outweigh the rewards of continuing to trot him out there when you don't necessarily have to.
Totally different philosophies, not saying yours is wrong. The fact that you've made this decision after he played 6 qtrs (Pretty well BTW) says all I need to know.

If your going to put him out there now then you think he's ready to play an acceptable NFL QB level. Otherwise you play Driskell, obviously Culley/Pep think he's ready and are going to put more on his plate. Starting DM early doesn't mean he's going to be Schaub. If Schaub had Mills physical gifts he probably would've hoisted a Lombardi down on Kirby. You say he's got no talent around him? I would agree with you right now with Collins/Amendola out. What talent would you add/replace to rectify this situation so that you would feel as comfortable starting Mills as Culley/Pep do?
 
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sandman

Brexit Advisor
Tore an ACL in HS.

OK, reading some old articles about it. He got his knee injury at the start of his senior year in high school, but only missed a month and took them to the state championship. He took a hit to the knee in that final game and chose to not play in the All-American Bowl as a precaution.

He redshirted his 2017 freshman year. Stanford already had an established starter in Chryst as well as KJ Costello who was the #2 rated QB in the 2016 class backing him up. 2018 he backed up Costello who had a damn good year (3500 yards, 29 TD's). Didn't read anything about an injury/surgery being the reason he didn't play but could have easily missed something.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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When do you want to get into the QB development business.
Never. Everything should be about winning, from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep.


Caserio will find out about his coaching staff if they can develop Mills/Collins etc.. this yr or over the next couple of yrs.
We’ve got an OL coach who might throw up his hands because the rookie QB is going to make him look bad regardless.

You’ve got a RB coach who might spend all his time focusing on picking up blitzes.

& you’ve got defensive coaches who need to know the team is trying to win, putting the best players on the field. That message could easily get lost if it comes down from on high that they’re playing the rookie at the most important position on the field.

Just my opinion, but I think it can’t be lip service. Every decision made by every member of the Texans organization has to be about winning.


Is sitting him on the bench after facing the 3 best defenses in the NFL really going to help him or do you think it will hurt his development?
mid he looked like Herbert, Mahomes, or a plus on the field, where he is actually contributing to wins & not merely a game manager, it’s likely to hurt him sitting on the bench.

But as it is, where he looks like he might be a good game manager it would help him to sit him & let him watch until Tyrod gets hurt again.
 

steelbtexan

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Totally misses the point. Yes they were in better situations & their teams didn’t make a poor decision because of it.

But the fact is they sat & for all we know are better because of it. Pat Mahomes in particular. His own teammates were calling him trash as a rookie.
Cousins/Carr etc... were drafted outside the 1st rd and have been successful QB's.


Never. Everything should be about winning, from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep.




We’ve got an OL coach who might throw up his hands because the rookie QB is going to make him look bad regardless.

You’ve got a RB coach who might spend all his time focusing on picking up blitzes.

& you’ve got defensive coaches who need to know the team is trying to win, putting the best players on the field. That message could easily get lost if it comes down from on high that they’re playing the rookie at the most important position on the field.

Just my opinion, but I think it can’t be lip service. Every decision made by every member of the Texans organization has to be about winning.




mid he looked like Herbert, Mahomes, or a plus on the field, where he is actually contributing to wins & not merely a game manager, it’s likely to hurt him sitting on the bench.

But as it is, where he looks like he might be a good game manager it would help him to sit him & let him watch until Tyrod gets hurt again.
If you dont have a vet QB then you're going to have to develop a young QB. When you have to do this there will be losses. But going with a 12 yr vet QB who is constantly injured is putting off the inevitable. You can develop a QB and still try to win.
 

thunderkyss

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How many more games do you think they will win with TT playing QB and most importantly how do you think winning those games will affect the future of the Texans in a positive or negative way?
regardless I believe Tyrod gives us a better chance of winning.

I also want to get away from thinking you have to “earn” those high draft picks. KC didn’t tank for the 10th overall pick when they drafted Mahomes. They didn’t earn any high draft picks to acquire any of the players they have now & drafting Eric Fisher was not the turning point for that organization.

Instead of aiming for those high picks like the Jags or Lions, I’d rather the personnel guys draft smart. Aquire draft picks through trades. & move around the draft to get what they want & not settle for whoever falls.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
That's a bit revisionist. Kubiak has four championship rings with that offense as a coordinator, QB coach, and head coach.

He could never go far in the playoffs with Schaub because they lacked a good defense, and when the finally had one, Schaub was broken.
Lol, not really.

Steve Young
Case Keenum
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
John Elway
Sage Rosenfels
Brock Osweiler



These are the names of some of Kubiak's starting QB's during his time as a HC/OC. Tell me, which of these names don't belong and which qbs do you think Gary won his 4 rings with? I'll give you a few hints, All those guys have gold jackets & all were capable of carrying their teams without the need for protection with his playcalling even on the backside of their careers and health.
 

steelbtexan

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regardless I believe Tyrod gives us a better chance of winning.

I also want to get away from thinking you have to “earn” those high draft picks. KC didn’t tank for the 10th overall pick when they drafted Mahomes. They didn’t earn any high draft picks to acquire any of the players they have now & drafting Eric Fisher was not the turning point for that organization.

Instead of aiming for those high picks like the Jags or Lions, I’d rather the personnel guys draft smart. Aquire draft picks through trades. & move around the draft to get what they want & not settle for whoever falls.
This would all be great if Caserio was allowed to draft Hill/Kelce etc...

There are plenty of teams that have a couple of bad yrs and bounce out of this in good fashion. Cowboys/Packers/Saints/49ers/Chargers etc... come to mind.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Mills came out of college too early. He wasn't ready for the NFL quite yet. But he slipped in the draft and we were able to get him in the 3rd round because he wasn't ready.
Mills probably came out when he had to come out. There were highly touted recruits coming behind him. It was likely a go pro or go transfer protocol situation.

Mills was in college for 4 years. 4 years of practice, film study, weight training. More snaps in games would have helped. But, he still needed to get into a NFL QB room to really get better.

It's a shame Mills didn't get more time on the sideline to watch Taylor play. But, it is what it is. It was likely that Mills would be put out there at some point in the season. There will be no Super Bowl run for this team. Right now, the line is as healthy as it will get. Cooks has not had a concussion. I don't see an issue with Mills playing. And if Mills has lasting scars from this experience...well, he probably wasn't going to make it anyway.

edit: What the heck? I quoted @dream_team and the quote says @thunderkyss said. That's the 2nd time this has happened to me.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Cousins/Carr etc... were drafted outside the 1st rd and have been successful QB's.
Every game they play the announcers are talking about faults they both still have & have to overcome.

don’t get me wrong. It’s possible that there are guys, like Wilson who can & should start from day one. I just don’t think Mills is one of those guys.

like I said if he’s playing at a high level, play him.

if he’s an ok game manager & the best thing we can say is “he didn’t turn it over” then he needs to sit.

also, if we’re running for 200 ypg, 2+ rushing TDs (non QB). Play him.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Don't understand why everyone feels they have to find out now what he is right now. There really is no rush. None of these qbs coming out this year have been impressive thus far & This team is so devoid of talent right now, it's unfair to attempt to even grade him against what he has to work with. Plus rushing to find out if he's your guy could also potentially get him seriously hurt..& if that happens late enough in the season, you still won't really know what you have & are in the same predicament for the draft and upcoming season as you would be if you put him back on the bench when TT returns. That's not even mentioning what all that could potentially do to his confidence.

T-skyss alluded to it earlier, but i'll expand on it, If TT's available its pretty likely he still gives us the best chance to win, so im going back to him regardless of how Mills looks. Its not like TT lost the job for poor play. Apart from that you don't have to worry about a qb controversy. Mills will get a legitimate shot next year to compete for the starting gig, the talent around him should be better & if TT is still around, we know from his past that he's not a guy that will raise a stink if the FO decides to go with Mills over him.
Any QB starting over the injured starter for at least a few more games as is Mills will be evaluated and questioned.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Totally different philosophies, not saying yours is wrong.

If your going to put him out there now then you think he's ready to play an acceptable NFL QB level. Otherwise you play Driskell, obviously Culley/Pep think he's ready and are going to put more on his plate. Starting DM early doesn't mean he's going to be Schaub. If Schaub had Mills physical gifts he probably would've hoisted a Lombardi down on Kirby. You say he's got no talent around him? I would agree with you right now with Collins/Amendola out. What talent would you add/replace to rectify this situation so that you would feel as comfortable starting Mills as Culley/Pep do?
Culley/Pep have him out there now b/c he gives them the best chance to win games; better than Driskel obviously; That's why he was named #2. All playing Driskel tells the team & fans is that you're throwing in the towel on the season. That's fine for some fans who think tanking is the answer b/c they have that NBA mindset, for the players and alot of other fans? that's trash. & if you're trying to change a losing culture to a winning one, you don't do that by...............losing on purpose.

Starting him early doesn't mean that he'll ever be Schaub & that's not what i was getting at when i said that..But starting him early just for experience sake also doesn't mean that he's going to get all positive out of that experience either. Contrary to popular belief, There's not a whole lot to learn from getting pummeled to death and from throwing bad ints..in fact, too much of any of that stuff tends to make you skittish and unwilling to pull the trigger at times. This is the mindset fans have to get out of. All experience ain't good experience.

He needs to grow with some young talent. Nico was a start, Getting him a true #1 WR to go along with him and Cooks wouldn't hurt. probably could stand a true feature back to help with the run game. Defensively, a true #1 CB and a legit pass rusher & true WLB cause Cunningham is trash would go a long way.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Any QB starting over the injured starter for at least a few more games as is Mills will be evaluated and questioned.
Not if said qb is a known quantity & in Driskel's case it is known that he is trash. Mills is #2 and is getting evaluated by fans only b/c he's a relatively high pick, the 1st of our 2021 draft under a new regime & all of us to varying degrees are hoping to get something out of him b/c he plays the position. Would folks really be looking to rush him into the starting role & looking at him the same way if he were a 5th round pick from this same draft that we had to bring up from the practice squad to start against the Bills? Unlikely.
 

sometexansfan

Blue Bomber
That's a bit revisionist. Kubiak has four championship rings with that offense as a coordinator, QB coach, and head coach.

He could never go far in the playoffs with Schaub because they lacked a good defense, and when the finally had one, Schaub was broken.
Schaub only had one playoff run in 2012 and was already broken, so not much data there.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Would folks really be looking to rush him into the starting role & looking at him the same way if he were a 5th round pick from this same draft that we had to bring up from the practice squad to start against the Bills? Unlikely.
Probably not. Though fans did clamor for Keenum (a 2nd year UDFA) in 2013.

Evaluating is what this team needs to be doing. That's how they win in whatever year they win. In the long run, Mills playing is a good thing.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Probably not. Though fans did clamor for Keenum (a 2nd year UDFA) in 2013.

Evaluating is what this team needs to be doing. That's how they win in whatever year they win. In the long run, Mills playing is a good thing.
That's the issue. You can't properly evaluate him now b/c you're likely not going to get a clear cut answer either way. so its pointless to be in a rush to put him in the starting role. This team is devoid of enough talent that they'll be free to pick a top talent at virtually almost every position..it doesn't have to be Mills or qb in next years draft.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Not if said qb is a known quantity & in Driskel's case it is known that he is trash. Mills is #2 and is getting evaluated by fans only b/c he's a relatively high pick, the 1st of our 2021 draft under a new regime & all of us to varying degrees are hoping to get something out of him b/c he plays the position. Would folks really be looking to rush him into the starting role & looking at him the same way if he were a 5th round pick from this same draft that we had to bring up from the practice squad to start against the Bills? Unlikely.
Driskel? He is not starting why bring him up? No one argues sentence 2. But he is not a 5th round pick...he was our first and a third and was drafted to be the future. How can he start and not be evaluated?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That's the issue. You can't properly evaluate him now b/c you're likely not going to get a clear cut answer either way. so its pointless to be in a rush to put him in the starting role. This team is devoid of enough talent that they'll be free to pick a top talent at virtually almost every position..it doesn't have to be Mills or qb in next years draft.
This is my position but if Mills can be it in 22 or even 2023 if Taylor is brought back as I predict.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Unless you have these guys on record saying that they didn't or wouldn't have benefited from sitting, then you have no case. Fact is, it absolutely can't hurt them if they do sit and learn their rookie years & in the case of at least a few of the guys you listed, Maybe they'd be better if they had sat that 1st year. By contrast starting these guys before they are ready can absolutely hurt them long term not only physically, but mentally in developing bad habits.
Love how you framed this argument.

You cant be wrong.

LMAO

You've made up your mind after 6 qtrs of football where Mills was the best rookie QB in this class during that time and that says it all. IMHO
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
You can't properly evaluate him now b/c you're likely not going to get a clear cut answer either way. so its pointless to be in a rush to put him in the starting role.
I don't think the Texans need a clear cut answer, right away. It's a piece. They see him in practice. In the QB room. So, there is something to be learned. Doesn't mean Mills PT will be the only thing they learn about him.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Culley/Pep have him out there now b/c he gives them the best chance to win games; better than Driskel obviously; That's why he was named #2. All playing Driskel tells the team & fans is that you're throwing in the towel on the season. That's fine for some fans who think tanking is the answer b/c they have that NBA mindset, for the players and alot of other fans? that's trash. & if you're trying to change a losing culture to a winning one, you don't do that by...............losing on purpose.

Starting him early doesn't mean that he'll ever be Schaub & that's not what i was getting at when i said that..But starting him early just for experience sake also doesn't mean that he's going to get all positive out of that experience either. Contrary to popular belief, There's not a whole lot to learn from getting pummeled to death and from throwing bad ints..in fact, too much of any of that stuff tends to make you skittish and unwilling to pull the trigger at times. This is the mindset fans have to get out of. All experience ain't good experience.

He needs to grow with some young talent. Nico was a start, Getting him a true #1 WR to go along with him and Cooks wouldn't hurt. probably could stand a true feature back to help with the run game. Defensively, a true #1 CB and a legit pass rusher & true WLB cause Cunningham is trash would go a long way.
Then you wouldn't start any rookie QB.

Look at the skill position players in Jags/NYJ/Bears/Pats. The Texans have as good or better players at those positions. I think a position group of a healthy Cooks/Amendola/Collins with Miller as a backup

Brown/Aikens and Ingram

Are a solid group.

The OL is going to take sometime to jell and I want Mills playing as they begin to jell, particularly if you are going to play him now.

Follow the Pep Chargers model. Herbert played behind a much worse OL than Mills is and survived and learned. Could the Chargers won a couple of more games if TT had replaced Herbert last yr? Probably, but Lynn/Pep did what was right for the Chargers long term and paid for doing the right thing with their jobs. Unfortunately.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Every game they play the announcers are talking about faults they both still have & have to overcome.

don’t get me wrong. It’s possible that there are guys, like Wilson who can & should start from day one. I just don’t think Mills is one of those guys.

like I said if he’s playing at a high level, play him.

if he’s an ok game manager & the best thing we can say is “he didn’t turn it over” then he needs to sit.

also, if we’re running for 200 ypg, 2+ rushing TDs (non QB). Play him.
If Carr/Cousins cant fix their issues after being in the league this long then sitting theirrookie yr likely wouldn't have helped them overcome their flaws.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Driskel? He is not starting why bring him up? No one argues sentence 2. But he is not a 5th round pick...he was our first and a third and was drafted to be the future. How can he start and not be evaluated?
B/c he's not in an ideal situation to be evaluated. Its like testing someone on material you haven't even taught them yet. Can't expect to get their best effort under those circumstances.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Love how you framed this argument.

You cant be wrong.

LMAO

You've made up your mind after 6 qtrs of football where Mills was the best rookie QB in this class during that time and that says it all. IMHO
Lol, this is truly funny coming from you..the guy who looks at things only in black and white. I haven't made up my mind, im simply stating that sitting and letting him learn can't hurt him/us...it actually only helps him/us. This isn't the case in your scenario.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
I don't think the Texans need to be in the developing QBs business right now. Their focus needs to be on finding out what they have as far as coaches just as much as QB. I don't want to be telling them & the players to go out there & try to win games, but I'm going to handcuff you with a rookie QB when I have a QB capable of winning games healthy & ready to play.

Same thing with the Players. I want them playing to win games & not trying to put up personal highlight reels.
Unfortunately the plan has shifted because of the curse cloud that’s been hanging over their heads for years. That curse cloud erupted even more after the passing of Mr. McNair. But to be fair this is nothing specifically new because we went through some crazy stuff with the Oilers. Something about the city of Houston and it’s professional football teams.

So here we are again developing a quarterback by trial and fire.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Then you wouldn't start any rookie QB.

Look at the skill position players in Jags/NYJ/Bears/Pats. The Texans have as good or better players at those positions. I think a position group of a healthy Cooks/Amendola/Collins with Miller as a backup

Brown/Aikens and Ingram

Are a solid group.

The OL is going to take sometime to jell and I want Mills playing as they begin to jell, particularly if you are going to play him now.

Follow the Pep Chargers model. Herbert played behind a much worse OL than Mills is and survived and learned. Could the Chargers won a couple of more games if TT had replaced Herbert last yr? Probably, but Lynn/Pep did what was right for the Chargers long term and paid for doing the right thing with their jobs. Unfortunately.
And Darnold didn't in NY. Neither did David Carr in HOU. Neither did guys like Alex Smith in SF and a whole host of other young qbs over the years whose potential was ruined before they even got good footing in the NFL b/c a HC was on the hot seat.........or an owner was being tempermental...... or a fan base wanted to "see what they got".

You keep citing the Chargers and its already been explained to you that the Charger team Herbert came into was better set up with Allen, Williams, Bosa, Ekler, Guyton and James already there before Herbert even took over. Lynn didn't stick with Herbert b/c he was trying to "see what he had" and get him experience. He was trying to win. & Herbert reassured him that he was the right guy to stick with going forward with his play by stepping up IMMEDIATELY against the defending champs by putting on a show & sustaining his skill the rest of that season. That's not at all what Mills has done or what we have seen up to this point from.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lol, not really.

Steve Young
Case Keenum
Peyton Manning
Matt Schaub
John Elway
Sage Rosenfels
Brock Osweiler



These are the names of some of Kubiak's starting QB's during his time as a HC/OC. Tell me, which of these names don't belong and which qbs do you think Gary won his 4 rings with? I'll give you a few hints, All those guys have gold jackets & all were capable of carrying their teams without the need for protection with his playcalling even on the backside of their careers and health.
But the Broncos didn't win those 3 SBs with Elway's and Manning's arms.
Neither did much during the SB runs.
It was the running game that made it work.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
A LARGE difference between Herbert & Mills.

Herbert - 43 collegiate games
Mills - 13 collegiate games & coming back from injury

There's a big reason Mills went in the 3rd round, and it's because he wasn't viewed as NFL-ready.
Indeed but those same guys predicted him to be a first round pick in the 2022 draft.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Look at the skill position players in Jags/NYJ/Bears/Pats. The Texans have as good or better players at those positions.
Ok... there are some teams we should not try to emulate. Jags/NYJ/Bears are three of the top three.

chances are if they are doing it, they are doing it wrong.

2nd, they’ve already made up their mind they have their future QB. You guys are saying we need to see if we need to draft a QB in 2022.

If Culley were to say DM10 is our starter, then yes. Play the kid. But if we’re just kicking tires, play Tyrod.
 
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