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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

A couple of numbers after 5 games:

Watson leads the league in TDs with 14 (11 pass, 3 rush) together with Russell Wilson (12 pass, 2 rush)
Watson is second in the league for QBR with 115.9 (Russell Wilson is first with 126.3m Patrick Mahomes 3d with 114.7)
8th in the league for completion percentage (69.2%)
One of only 3 QBs with 10+ TDs and fewer than 2 interceptions
He has taken the 4th most sacks with 18

And all this with, at least in my mind, two of the worst games of his career this year. Dude is really special, he just needs to get more consistent and he can easily be one of the top 3 QBs every year...
 
DanielTx said:
“It’s silly to think he’s top 5”. It’s not a debate anymore when you have other fans from around the league that believes so.
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LikeMike said:
A couple of numbers after 5 games:

Watson leads the league in TDs with 14 (11 pass, 3 rush) together with Russell Wilson (12 pass, 2 rush)
Watson is second in the league for QBR with 115.9 (Russell Wilson is first with 126.3m Patrick Mahomes 3d with 114.7)
8th in the league for completion percentage (69.2%)
One of only 3 QBs with 10+ TDs and fewer than 2 interceptions
He has taken the 4th most sacks with 18
Click to expand...

Welp, that closes this thread.
 
LikeMike said:
Dude is really special, he just needs to get more consistent and he can easily be one of the top 3 QBs every year...
Click to expand...

That's it, right there. To me, a top flight, elite QB is one who is consistently good. That doesn't mean they can't have a bad game, but when you think of guys like Brady and Brees, they consistently put their team in position to win and they perform well way more often than not. I think the only thing keeping Watson from being one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league year in and year out is just seasoning. He'll get better at recognizing the blitz and exploiting it. He'll get better at reading defenses and getting the ball out before getting pummeled. He'll get better.

And that's scary for other teams when you think about how good he is now.
 
Might be the dumbest opinion I’ve read so far on this site ^
but at this point, why am I not surprised.

I respect the posters who bashed Watson in his draft day thread and admitted to there wrong later on. I can’t respect guys who won’t let there egos lose. Like get over it man. Watson doesn’t suck. He’s not going to get any worser. He has one poor game the day after his birthday and you have idiots calling him dumb lol. Swear I can’t stand ungrateful fans. Site needs a block button. He can win 4 Super Bowls. There’s always going to be that one critic whose never satisfied. I like it though. Keep doubting lol
 
DanielTx said:
Might be the dumbest opinion I’ve read so far on this site ^
but at this point, why am I not surprised.

I respect the posters who bashed Watson in his draft day thread and admitted to there wrong later on. I can’t respect guys who won’t let there egos lose. Like get over it man. Watson doesn’t suck. He’s not going to get any worser. He has one poor game like every other qb and you have idiots calling him dumb lol. Swear I can’t stand ungrateful fans. Site needs a block button
Click to expand...
It’s only like one or two posters that claim Watson is “too dumb” to run the EP system. Probably the same ones that claimed he was a run first, weak arm qb, with a slow throw velocity. Pay then no mind.
 
DanielTx said:
Might be the dumbest opinion I’ve read so far on this site ^
but at this point, why am I not surprised.

I respect the posters who bashed Watson in his draft day thread and admitted to there wrong later on. I can’t respect guys who won’t let there egos lose. Like get over it man. Watson doesn’t suck. He’s not going to get any worser. He has one poor game the day after his birthday and you have idiots calling him dumb lol. Swear I can’t stand ungrateful fans. Site needs a block button. He can win 4 Super Bowls. There’s always going to be that one critic whose never satisfied. I like it though. Keep doubting lol
Click to expand...

Let him 1st learn the system then we can talk about those 4 SB's. We are all hoping Watson does well, but as of right now after 3 yrs he's still learning the system
 
Mangler said:
It’s only like one or two posters that claim Watson is “too dumb” to run the EP system. Probably the same ones that claimed he was a run first, weak arm qb, with a slow throw velocity. Pay then no mind.
Click to expand...

the problem with Watson have nothing to do with his football iq. What he needs to get better at, other than consistency, is reading the field fast and taking easy throws.

he often misses wide open guys that are like his 3D or 4th option. And he tends to wait for a big play to develope instead of taking the easy 5 yards (and those easy 5 yards are probably usually hi 3D or 4th option).

at lest this last game the Game Plan was more about short quick Passes and he excelled at it. I hope we stay with this (which also opens up big plays more).
 
steelbtexan said:
Let him 1st learn the system then we can talk about those 4 SB's. We are all hoping Watson does well, but as of right now after 3 yrs he's still learning the system
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I think you are overstating this , or at least not using it in the right context ….

Watson "knows the system" after 3 years.

The issue is that the system , as implemented , isn't very good and it doesn't suit Watson - doesn't highlight his strengths while hiding his weaknesses - in fact it highlights his weaknesses.

And then the coach wont make adjustments …. rather , keeps running plays right into the teeth of a defense designed specifically to take away what he is trying to do …. That's no way to sustain a drive.

There are plays within this "System" that take advantage of what Watson is good at and there are plays in this system that counter the things Carolina did to neutralize them. They simply don't do those things ….
 
DanielTx said:
Might be the dumbest opinion I’ve read so far on this site ^
but at this point, why am I not surprised.

I respect the posters who bashed Watson in his draft day thread and admitted to there wrong later on. I can’t respect guys who won’t let there egos lose. Like get over it man. Watson doesn’t suck. He’s not going to get any worser. He has one poor game the day after his birthday and you have idiots calling him dumb lol. Swear I can’t stand ungrateful fans. Site needs a block button. He can win 4 Super Bowls. There’s always going to be that one critic whose never satisfied. I like it though. Keep doubting lol
Click to expand...

I think we need to understand what the man is saying. Every time Watson has to resort to magic to make something happen, that's not BO'bs EP system working.

Watson's stats are not because he is perfectly executing BO'bs offense. It's because he is an exceptional talent.

I'll believe Watson has full command of BO'bs offense when he has to make something happen on 30% or less of the snaps. Right now it's more like 80%

BO'bs offense sucks... yeah. Maybe. But sooner or later Watson has to make it work for him. He's the one looking at the defense & he's the one telling everyone what to do.

I feel confident we'll see him command this offense this year. We'll see a big difference between what we see today & what we'll see in December.

I don't think Watson lacks the intelligence like steelbtexan is saying. But right now Watson isn't running it like it should be. It's like he's driving a Ferrari in third gear all the time. There will be times when third gear is the right gear & everything looks good. But the times he needs to be in 1st, it'll look like a slow car. The times he needs to be in 4th it'll look like he's working too hard.
 
Corrosion said:
I think you are overstating this , or at least not using it in the right context ….

Watson "knows the system" after 3 years.

The issue is that the system , as implemented , isn't very good and it doesn't suit Watson - doesn't highlight his strengths while hiding his weaknesses - in fact it highlights his weaknesses.

And then the coach wont make adjustments …. rather , keeps running plays right into the teeth of a defense designed specifically to take away what he is trying to do …. That's no way to sustain a drive.

There are plays within this "System" that take advantage of what Watson is good at and there are plays in this system that counter the things Carolina did to neutralize them. They simply don't do those things ….
Click to expand...

I've said this before, but I will say it again, I was wrong to use the word stupid. Better, BOB/Watson are a bad fit. Maybe last week is a sign of progress. Or at least we should hope so.

I expect a really good game this week.
 
JB said:
OB is still learning the system also. Everyone is
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This is funny, but has some truth to it. Technically, has O'Brien been able to successfully implement and execute this EP offense without Belichick in his ear and either Belichick or Brady providing input with the game plan?
 
Earl34 said:
This is funny, but has some truth to it. Technically, has O'Brien been able to successfully implement and execute this EP offense without Belichick in his ear and either Belichick or Brady providing input with the game plan?
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Not in my opinion. OB only has success when he gets away from it
 
steelbtexan said:
Let him 1st learn the system then we can talk about those 4 SB's. We are all hoping Watson does well, but as of right now after 3 yrs he's still learning the system
Click to expand...
How can he learn a system that changes every week? Remember the “game plan per opponent” pitch that got him hired? O’Brien actually didn’t lie in the interview, he pretty much told them he had no plan, and he’d just wing it on a weekly basis. If it’s true that he finally scrapped his bullsh1t and flawed system, and finally runs an actual system, then maybe we will finally see a consistent offense. If not, expect more of the same we’ve seen since 2014. Weird that the team only looks good when he goes away from his “system.”
 
Mangler said:
How can he learn a system that changes every week? Remember the “game plan per opponent” pitch that got him hired? O’Brien actually didn’t lie in the interview, he pretty much told them he had no plan, and he’d just wing it on a weekly basis. If it’s true that he finally scrapped his bullsh1t and flawed system, and finally runs an actual system, then maybe we will finally see a consistent offense. If not, expect more of the same we’ve seen since 2014. Weird that the team only looks good when he goes away from his “system.”
Click to expand...

You do k know the Pats game plan weekly. He just needs to make the game plan as simple as possible each week for Watson.
 
Corrosion said:
I think OB is a bad fit for anyone ….

Would love to see Watson with a quality HC/OC … in a WCO.
Click to expand...

Lol at the WCO fans

I wonder if they don't like BOB personally or it's because he doesn't run the WCO.

There's no assurances that Watson would be good in a WCO. Look at Cousins
 
Mangler said:
How can he learn a system that changes every week? Remember the “game plan per opponent” pitch that got him hired? O’Brien actually didn’t lie in the interview, he pretty much told them he had no plan, and he’d just wing it on a weekly basis. If it’s true that he finally scrapped his bullsh1t and flawed system, and finally runs an actual system, then maybe we will finally see a consistent offense. If not, expect more of the same we’ve seen since 2014. Weird that the team only looks good when he goes away from his “system.”
Click to expand...

I believe the majority of teams have the same weekly approach. O'Brien just made it sound exotic (game plan offense) for the McNairs. Unfortunately, for the Texans, besides the RB dives from the shotgun formation, Hopkins winning his matchup and the slow developing pass play where Fuller starts on one side, runs a 25 yard post or cross until he gets to the other side of the field, there is nothing consistent about the offense. That's why the play calling always seems to be a series of random, disjointed plays.
 
Earl34 said:
I believe the majority of teams have the same weekly approach. O'Brien just made it sound exotic (game plan offense) for the McNairs. Unfortunately, for the Texans, besides the RB dives from the shotgun formation, Hopkins winning his matchup and the slow developing pass play where Fuller starts on one side, runs a 25 yard post or cross until he gets to the other side of the field, there is nothing consistent about the offense. That's why the play calling always seems to be a series of random, disjointed plays.
Click to expand...

Then he'll randomly throw in wr screens and trick plays at the worst moments
 
powda said:
Perhaps @steelbtexan can shed some light on calling Watson ignorant.

Is Watson stupid?

Is the offense stupid?

Are the game plans stupid?

Maybe some clarity is in order?
Click to expand...
He thinks Watson hasn’t learned O’Brien’s super complex system after 2.5 seasons that even O’Brien hasn’t learned after 5-6 years of coaching it. In his mind, It’s not O’Brien’s system, it’s Watson’s inability to read defenses and slow uptake. His mind is made up, good luck trying to talk sense into him.
 
Mangler said:
He thinks Watson hasn’t learned O’Brien’s super complex system after 2.5 seasons that even O’Brien hasn’t learned after 5-6 years of coaching it. In his mind, It’s not O’Brien’s system, it’s Watson’s inability to read defenses and slow uptake. His mind is made up, good luck trying to talk sense into him.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to talk sense into anyone just asking for clarity.
 
steelbtexan said:
Lol at the WCO fans

I wonder if they don't like BOB personally or it's because he doesn't run the WCO.

There's no assurances that Watson would be good in a WCO. Look at Cousins
Click to expand...


That WCO is why Case Keenum and Colt McCoy are still in the league … That offense made Schaub an All Pro and TJ Yates appear competent.

What has the EP done …. outside of NE who has the GOAT at QB.
 
steelbtexan said:
You do k know the Pats game plan weekly. He just needs to make the game plan as simple as possible each week for Watson.
Click to expand...


How about having a gameplan that doesn't run into the teeth of the defense ?

You know , like take advantage of the things the defense is giving up in trying to take something else away.

Two deep safety's with LBers playing zone under …. What do you do ?

Its not about "simple" its about effectively taking advantage of what's available.
 
Corrosion said:
How about having a gameplan that doesn't run into the teeth of the defense ?

You know , like take advantage of the things the defense is giving up in trying to take something else away.

Two deep safety's with LBers playing zone under …. What do you do ?

Its not about "simple" its about effectively taking advantage of what's available.
Click to expand...

Everything we see of the offense is after it's been processed through Watson. He's got complete freedom at the LOS. When you see Lamar Miller run into a 9 man box, that's after Watson has looked over the defense & said, "We got this."

Those long developing routes, that's after Watson recognizes the qtrs coverage signaled to the receivers, "We're going to run it just like we drew it up."

We're seeing the game plan after Watson decided to say, "Hike!!!"
 
Corrosion said:
That WCO is why Case Keenum and Colt McCoy are still in the league … That offense made Schaub an All Pro and TJ Yates appear competent.

What has the EP done …. outside of NE who has the GOAT at QB.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to hear Pete Carmichael describe what he's done in helping put together the 'Gulf Coast' (WC/Coryell hypbrid) offense in N.O. for the last 10+ years.

He doesn't call the plays (Payton's gig) but he hasn't exactly been hands off over there in helping orchestrate gameplans, create offensive variations, design plays, and work in total lockstep with Payton/Brees week in and week out for so long now.
 
thunderkyss said:
Everything we see of the offense is after it's been processed through Watson. He's got complete freedom at the LOS. When you see Lamar Miller run into a 9 man box, that's after Watson has looked over the defense & said, "We got this."

Those long developing routes, that's after Watson recognizes the qtrs coverage signaled to the receivers, "We're going to run it just like we drew it up."

We're seeing the game plan after Watson decided to say, "Hike!!!"
Click to expand...
Those are very good points.
 
thunderkyss said:
Everything we see of the offense is after it's been processed through Watson. He's got complete freedom at the LOS. When you see Lamar Miller run into a 9 man box, that's after Watson has looked over the defense & said, "We got this."

Those long developing routes, that's after Watson recognizes the qtrs coverage signaled to the receivers, "We're going to run it just like we drew it up."

We're seeing the game plan after Watson decided to say, "Hike!!!"
Click to expand...


Are we sure he has the freedom to change out of that run play at the line ? Is he limited to what he can change to ?

Look , I've often criticized Watson for missing stuff at the LOS pre-snap as well as missing guys who are open …. but to put everything we see after the snap is a little disingenuous …. Its a combination of things , many of which we will never know.
 
Mangler said:
How can he learn a system that changes every week? Remember the “game plan per opponent” pitch that got him hired? O’Brien actually didn’t lie in the interview, he pretty much told them he had no plan, and he’d just wing it on a weekly basis. If it’s true that he finally scrapped his bullsh1t and flawed system, and finally runs an actual system, then maybe we will finally see a consistent offense. If not, expect more of the same we’ve seen since 2014. Weird that the team only looks good when he goes away from his “system.”
Click to expand...
The EP system is about route concepts, where the QB and skill players need to be on the same page at the LOS. It can easily be game planned per opponent. Certain concepts work better against specific fronts than others. It's up to DW4 to make the proper calls for the concept and the OL protection. What TK didn't say was that all of these plays are also after OB has called a specific play. I'm still not sure what DW4's freedom is at the LOS to call audibles.
 
powda said:
Perhaps @steelbtexan can shed some light on calling Watson ignorant.

Is Watson stupid?
Click to expand...

I couldn't believe that was his opinion and I asked him multiple times. He's made it crystal clear that it's about Watson inability to run the EP offense. He's no longer describing Watson as "Stupid". Instead he went to O'Brien needs run a simple offense for Watson.

steelbtexan said:
I'm not against getting another HC. Tell me who you would get. Watson being Watson is running his college offense. He cant seem to figure out how to run a pro style offense.
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steelbtexan said:
So you think BOB/Smith haven't been working with Watson on these things? At some point Watson has to take ownership and learn these things.

Smith was able to teach Wilson, ask yourself why Wilson could learn these things rather quickly, while Watson is still struggling with the basic things in your post.
Click to expand...

steelbtexan said:
This is why I hope they go back to letting Watson run his college offense. He will produce until he gets hurt then it will be time to move on.
Click to expand...

steelbtexan said:
I'm not hoping he gets hurt.

I just want BOB to put in an offense he can operate efficiently.

He's never going to learn the EP system like Brady/Simms etc...
Click to expand...
 
Well, to be fair...

Everyone in the org from staff to locker room are of questionable intelligence.

Think about it.... all this time OB has been OB and not one single time has he been locked in a storage closet come game time.
 
steelbtexan said:
Lol at the WCO fans

I wonder if they don't like BOB personally or it's because he doesn't run the WCO.

There's no assurances that Watson would be good in a WCO. Look at Cousins
Click to expand...
Where we see Rodgers chaffing in a WCO, Watson could very well flourish because it cuts down on your number of choices at the LOS.
 
Earl34 said:
I couldn't believe that was his opinion and I asked him multiple times. He's made it crystal clear that it's about Watson inability to run the EP offense. He's no longer describing Watson as "Stupid". Instead he went to O'Brien needs run a simple offense for Watson.
Click to expand...
The times when the offense has looked best under OB we when he had to strip it back to accomodate QBs who hadn't had chance to learn it and when lesser talented savant Ryan Fitzpatrick was under centre.

If you need a mensa invite to work the system, then the system is the problem.
 
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