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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
BOB always seems to come into a season and be taken by surprise that his OLine sucks. He tries the fancy stuff on the chalkboard for 3-4 games and it never translates because his qb is taking a beating. Then goes back to the drawing board to fix the protection issues and adjust the offense accordingly. This takes a couple of games to fine tune and we have a better 2nd half of the season. Then we get clubbed in the playoffs because you can't beat the better teams with compensating protection schemes that don't allow a fully functional offense. He's never been able to sync up an offense with the OLine. This year is proving to be no different and once again, it's not all a talent issue. The blocking scheme isn't up to par with TE's pulling to block the opposite side DE and guys not handing off stunts properly or recognizing blitzes. The OLine scheme is BOB's achilles and that falls on him for not recognizing this and finding the OLine coach who can fix it.
He always seems to be surprised several guys he picks as starters suck.

Wheres seantrel? He was the anointed starter two years in a row
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Pff had him top 5before last game. Have not seen updated grades
Well, according to PFF, he's 21st in attempts, 18th in passing yardage, 15th in PaTDs, t-27th in INTs (that's good, he only has one), and has an overall grade of 71.9.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
And this is the disconnect with O'Brien's current system. I'm not seeing a scheme that is adapting to the roster.
Not only is he not adapting to the roster, he’s not tailoring the offense week to week based on the opponent’s defense either.

I read somewhere that Carolina was outstanding against 3 WR sets and that’s pretty much all the Texans ran. Carolina has difficulty in multiple TE sets and the Texans only ran a handful of those with very little attention paid to TEs.

The guy is just in over his head and it’s been that way now for 6 years. He tries to run the Patriots EP, which does tailor to opponents weaknesses, thus creating mismatches, and they adapt to their personnel, but it seems OB just doesn’t really understand how it works.

It’s like he tasted a dish at some restaurant and he went home to try and recreate it, but he doesn’t really have the palette to figure out the ingredients. Plus he’s not that good a cook.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Well, according to PFF, he's 21st in attempts, 18th in passing yardage, 15th in PaTDs, t-27th in INTs (that's good, he only has one), and has an overall grade of 71.9.
Pff gives players a grade per play. If for example obrien draws up a horrible play where no one gets open, Watson isn't necessarily penalized.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Well, a 71.9 grade is not good. So PFF is obviously penalizing him.
This is what they said after last week:
5. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
It’s been all about big plays for Watson, who is tied with Brady for second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4%. We’ve seen a few spectacular plays, including a near-comeback in Week 1 against the New Orleans Saints and a few gems this week against the Los Angeles Chargers, but Watson is inviting too much pressure and ranks just 22nd at avoiding negatively graded throws. Watson’s big-play ability has been the story of his young career, but he is still working to find the balance between avoiding pressure and adding more value in the short game.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
People trying to bash Watson for a game where:

-obrien called a Hopkins pass in the redzone
-obrien had no idea that Carolina was strong against 3wr sets and weak against multiple te sets
-used hyde, a terrible receiving back, as the checkdown option
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
People trying to bash Watson for a game where:

-obrien called a Hopkins pass in the redzone
-obrien had no idea that Carolina was strong against 3wr sets and weak against multiple te sets
-used hyde, a terrible receiving back, as the checkdown option
Missed 3 long passes 2 of which would've been TD passes and several other bad mid range throws, plus returned to not looking at open receivers that were open in the middle of the field.

What does the Nuk pass have to do with Watson's putrid performance on Sunday?
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
This is what they said after last week:
5. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
It’s been all about big plays for Watson, who is tied with Brady for second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4%. We’ve seen a few spectacular plays, including a near-comeback in Week 1 against the New Orleans Saints and a few gems this week against the Los Angeles Chargers, but Watson is inviting too much pressure and ranks just 22nd at avoiding negatively graded throws. Watson’s big-play ability has been the story of his young career, but he is still working to find the balance between avoiding pressure and adding more value in the short game.
Greg Cosell said that the great QBs ALWAYS make the easy throws. ALWAYS. Thats what seperates them from average and he feels that as soon as Watson figures that out he will be firmly entrenched as an elite QB. He says he already has the national respect around most of the league, he's still young and putting it together.

Gotta make the easy throws.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Missed 3 long passes 2 of which would've been TD passes and several other bad mid range throws, plus returned to not looking at open receivers that were open in the middle of the field.

What does the Nuk pass have to do with Watson's putrid performance on Sunday?
Nuke has probably quit on OBrien
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
People trying to bash Watson for a game where:

-obrien called a Hopkins pass in the redzone
-obrien had no idea that Carolina was strong against 3wr sets and weak against multiple te sets
-used hyde, a terrible receiving back, as the checkdown option
Forgot to mention didn’t have any timeouts left to help the offense at the end. But yeah I guess it’s easier to blame Watson.

Watson had a bad game but OB has been doing this for 6 years.
 

watt99x99

Waterboy
DW4 was top 5 last year but this year he's been really bad. o line is bad but throw to check down instead keep looking down field and get sacked. honestly DW4 holding ball is 50% of the reason he's getting so many sacks not oline.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Forgot to mention didn’t have any timeouts left to help the offense at the end. But yeah I guess it’s easier to blame Watson.

Watson had a bad game but OB has been doing this for 6 years.
The misuse of timeouts remains an issue.

You would think an Ivy League graduate would be smarter than this.

I guess this says more about the value a liberal college education provides these days.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Pff had him top 5before last game. Have not seen updated grades
1. Wentz - 88.4
2. Prescott - 87.2
3. Rivers - 85.6
4. Wilson - 82.8
5. Brady - 82.3
6. Mahomes - 80.8
7. Carr - 77.8
8. Rodgers - 77.2
9. Jackson - 76.1
10. Minshew - 76.0
11. Mayfield - 75.7
11. Stafford - 75.7
13. Garoppolo - 74.3
14. Watson - 71.9
15. Ryan - 70.4
16. Flacco - 70.1
17. Mariota - 68.0
18. Goff - 66.0
19. Brissett - 64.0
20. Murray - 61.6
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Watson had a bad game but OB has been doing this for 6 years.
That's it in a nutshell, actually. I think the vast majority of this board agrees 100% with that statement. The few who don't ... well, don't give them clicks. The thing is, and it's always been this way, you can't talk about what a bad game Watson had without people getting all up in arms. In their mind, it's binary. Either Watson had a bad game or O'Brien did. They both did. Hell, most of the team had a bad game. Believe it or not, some people are capable of discussing one without the other, yet still understanding the other.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
1. Wentz - 88.4
2. Prescott - 87.2
3. Rivers - 85.6
4. Wilson - 82.8
5. Brady - 82.3
6. Mahomes - 80.8
7. Carr - 77.8
8. Rodgers - 77.2
9. Jackson - 76.1
10. Minshew - 76.0
11. Mayfield - 75.7
11. Stafford - 75.7
13. Garoppolo - 74.3
14. Watson - 71.9
15. Ryan - 70.4
16. Flacco - 70.1
17. Mariota - 68.0
18. Goff - 66.0
19. Brissett - 64.0
20. Murray - 61.6
So by advanced metrics, he's now a top 14 QB.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is what they said after last week:
5. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
It’s been all about big plays for Watson, who is tied with Brady for second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4%. We’ve seen a few spectacular plays, including a near-comeback in Week 1 against the New Orleans Saints and a few gems this week against the Los Angeles Chargers, but Watson is inviting too much pressure and ranks just 22nd at avoiding negatively graded throws. Watson’s big-play ability has been the story of his young career, but he is still working to find the balance between avoiding pressure and adding more value in the short game.
I put this on O'Brien. Even his buddies on Texans-propaganda 610 were calling him out for the constant reliance on home-run plays instead of consistent, sustained scoring drives.

Where are the packages of rub routes & short crossing patterns? Those plays of short passes designed to bring in the safeties so those long bomb attempts have a better chance? This is where I don't see O'Brien truly implementing anything close to the NE system. Brady has been a master of those short passes for years. He's built his later career on them as a staple. They allow for quick release, negate a lot of the pocket pressure and blitzes, and builds confidence in the offense to consistently move the ball.

People trying to bash Watson for a game where:

-obrien called a Hopkins pass in the redzone
-obrien had no idea that Carolina was strong against 3wr sets and weak against multiple te sets
-used hyde, a terrible receiving back, as the checkdown option
Yep. Watson was working that drive when the Nuk trick play was called. I couldn't believe he took the ball out of a QB finding his groove for a really stupid, low percentage TRICK! Actually, I could believe it, because O'Brien is always the smartest man in the room (in his own mind).

He's got too much on his plate. There is no way he can be a good HC, good OC, and good GM, all at the same time. His power grab now has him next to Cal McNair, but at what cost? Where are the checks and balances with this front office and coaching staff? Is he "just too damn smart" to have someone giving him basic advice in the headset during the game?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yep. Watson was working that drive when the Nuk trick play was called. I couldn't believe he took the ball out of a QB finding his groove for a really stupid, low percentage TRICK! Actually, I could believe it, because O'Brien is always the smartest man in the room (in his own mind).
Yup
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
This is what they said after last week:
5. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
It’s been all about big plays for Watson, who is tied with Brady for second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4%. We’ve seen a few spectacular plays, including a near-comeback in Week 1 against the New Orleans Saints and a few gems this week against the Los Angeles Chargers, but Watson is inviting too much pressure and ranks just 22nd at avoiding negatively graded throws. Watson’s big-play ability has been the story of his young career, but he is still working to find the balance between avoiding pressure and adding more value in the short game.
They are pretty much spot on with that analysis …. its boom or bust with Watson and this offense.

I'd settle for a few 12-14 play 80 yard drives that eat up 8-10 minutes of the clock and wear a defense out.
 
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ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
That's an interesting point to consider. There is clearly something off between O'Brien's scheme and Watson's implementation of it. Is O'Brien still running a quasi-Patriots EP scheme? Honestly, I don't recognize it when compared to the well-oiled and efficient machine that is the Patriots offense.

Brady has one of the quickest releases after the snap in football. They've got those players so well trained that the scheme is intuitive. Brady knows exactly where any given player will be at a given time, so he can get the snap, set himself, and release it.
You guys are comparing apples to coconuts.
In Brady's first 2-3 years Belichick's offense featured the running of Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk. Belichick relied on that running game and a top ten defense to win. In 2001, Brady's first SB, he only threw 18 TDs. Over the years as Brady developed into TB12 Belichick built more and more of the offense around him and installed the NE EP.

Now in Watson's 2nd full year, thanks to O'Brien's "genius", he's got to carry the whole offense. If he has an off day, we suck. Now if our "offensive genius" would recognize Watson's strengths (and weaknesses) and tailor the offense to those things he'd be onto something.

Now I could be wrong but I get the feeling O'Brien is all, "Sink or swim, Watson will run my system."
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
You guys are comparing apples to coconuts.
In Brady's first 2-3 years Belichick's offense featured the running of Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk. Belichick relied on that running game and a top ten defense to win. In 2001, Brady's first SB, he only threw 18 TDs. Over the years as Brady developed into TB12 Belichick built more and more of the offense around him and installed the NE EP.

Now in Watson's 2nd full year, thanks to O'Brien's "genius", he's got to carry the whole offense. If he has an off day, we suck. Now if our "offensive genius" would recognize Watson's strengths (and weaknesses) and tailor the offense to those things he'd be onto something.

Now I could be wrong but I get the feeling O'Brien is all, "Sink or swim, Watson will run my system."
Great post!
 

Scooter

Funky
Allow him to play in an offense ... yes. I counted 2 throws over 15yds during his exceptional performance ... both resulting in touchdowns. The last time that happened was his rookie season. That rookie season also included "pairs" all over the field with the "Clemson" flavor (which Ronde said was something that the Texans wanted to try to get back to), and 1-2 reads that allowed him to make quick decisions. It included a heavy amount of split backs with options for run, flare, RPO, and triple option. Also twin TE's, flat+out pairing, and under/over sideline routes from very familiar formations.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
This was a magnificent day going in the right direction against an absolutely trash defense.

Hopefully it's the first step towards consistency.

Now on to KC.
Brady kills trash as well.
This was a get right head into KC. Watson will have to score because patty will score.

Next week is gold for NFL. To bad not a primetime game
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Dak was great vs trash and NO did what to him lol
This was watson v trash

Your better than this
Still learning, part of the process, today was a good day. Young QB has ups and downs . Gotta become more consistent.

BTW, I called a good game today. Watson will have a good game against the Chiefs and not so good against the Pats.

No he's not better than that, when Watson has his next bad game it will be all BOB's fault in his eyes. Hate does those things to a guy who doesn't really know what he's looking at.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Still learning, part of the process, today was a good day. Young QB has ups and downs . Gotta become more consistent.
You claim he was too stupid too learn O'Brien's offense. Stupid doesn't come and go. Either he's too dumb or he had a bad game. Do you still think he's too dumb to run O'Brien's version of the EP offense?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You claim he was too stupid too learn O'Brien's offense. Stupid doesn't come and go. Either he's too dumb or he had a bad game. Do you still think he's too dumb to run O'Brien's version of the EP offense?
Yes,

He's still learning and the learning curve is deep.

Hopefully he. Gets it and can do this against better defenses. The jury is still out., How do you think I was able to call Watson having a good game today before it started?
 
Last edited:

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Yes,

He's still learning and the learning curve is deep.

Hopefully he. Gets it and can do this against better defenses. The jury is still out., How do you think I was able to call Watson having a good game today before it started?
lmfao I almost spit out my drink. You hedged your bets today against a terrible team.

Watson can grasp any system, as long as the system isn't putting his team in a terrible position.

We had more guys in the middle of the field, creating windows with in and out route combos instead of flooding the sidelines, we ran more plays under C today than we have all season...combined, we used the strength of this offense to make things happen. All of this was lacking and it had nothing to do with Watson being too dumb or incapable. His coach finally realized his system was a dud.
 
He hasn't had just one bad game this season.

Meanwhile who exactly was just writing him off?
Not even top 10
Being realistic isn’t being negative. I believe he will be great but he isn’t yet. It’s silly to think he is top 5. That’s being a homer.

“It’s silly to think he’s top 5”. It’s not a debate anymore when you have other fans from around the league that believes so. You make a realistic positive opinion on your qb and youre called a homer right away. Anyway, I rather not say anything. People get sensitive and Deshaun will ball out regardless.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
lmfao I almost spit out my drink. You hedged your bets today against a terrible team.

Watson can grasp any system, as long as the system isn't putting his team in a terrible position.

We had more guys in the middle of the field, creating windows with in and out route combos instead of flooding the sidelines, we ran more plays under C today than we have all season...combined, we used the strength of this offense to make things happen. All of this was lacking and it had nothing to do with Watson being too dumb or incapable. His coach finally realized his system was a dud.
I didn't get to see the game today. I'm visiting my son in Connecticut.

There were receivers open in the middle of the field last game too and the Charges game too. Sometimes Watson sees them, sometime s he doesn't. It's a learning curve that isn't going to be sped up, whether you want to admit this or not.
 

Earl34

Veteran
lmfao I almost spit out my drink. You hedged your bets today against a terrible team.

Watson can grasp any system, as long as the system isn't putting his team in a terrible position.

We had more guys in the middle of the field, creating windows with in and out route combos instead of flooding the sidelines, we ran more plays under C today than we have all season...combined, we used the strength of this offense to make things happen. All of this was lacking and it had nothing to do with Watson being too dumb or incapable. His coach finally realized his system was a dud.
All the things knowledgeable posters have been screaming for was in today's game plan. The question is will the game plan offense totally toss everything we saw today?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You claim he was too stupid too learn O'Brien's offense. Stupid doesn't come and go. Either he's too dumb or he had a bad game. Do you still think he's too dumb to run O'Brien's version of the EP offense?
Watson obviously had issues operating our offense against Carolina. Their front four, zone coverage & blitz packages presented a challenge to DW4 that he didn't figure out through 4 qtrs.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I didn't get to see the game today. I'm visiting my son in Connecticut.

There were receivers open in the middle of the field last game too and the Charges game too. Sometimes Watson sees them, sometime s he doesn't. It's a learning curve that isn't going to be sped up, whether you want to admit this or not.
It wasn't the same playcalling
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
“It’s silly to think he’s top 5”. It’s not a debate anymore when you have other fans from around the league that believes so. You make a realistic positive opinion on your qb and youre called a homer right away. Anyway, I rather not say anything. People get sensitive and Deshaun will ball out regardless.
I thought you meant writing him off entirely, not writing off whether he had been playing like one of the best handful of qbs in the league this season.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I didn't get to see the game today. I'm visiting my son in Connecticut.

There were receivers open in the middle of the field last game too and the Charges game too. Sometimes Watson sees them, sometime s he doesn't. It's a learning curve that isn't going to be sped up, whether you want to admit this or not.
I watch the all-22 footage every week. I know what I see. The routes and positioning are trash. Today was different. The 2nd half of the Chargers game was different.

When OB simplifies things for EVERYONE (Wrs and Tes and Rbs and OL and QB) we play better. It has nothing to do with Watson not having good footwork, or not being smart enough to run the EP system, or any other trash comments. The system they run is flawed and not working. It creates inconsistency because it relies on too many people making individual decisions while relying on them to be perfect.

Sure, Watson missed some throws last week vs Carolina, but it doesn't negate the system being bad. We shouldn't have to rely on Watson being perfect every single week. Sometimes QBs will have off games.
 

Scooter

Funky
Wait, wait wait wait. Too stupid for O'Brien's offense, except ...

How do you think I was able to call Watson having a good game today before it started?
There are levels. This comment achieved a new one. Especially with the benefit of not being able to watch the game.

I mean, just ... wow lol. Not sure if I'm looking forward to the 100 posts that will come this week, or if I should be afraid that my brain will explode.
 


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