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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

Anyone that compares Deshaun Watson to Vince Young is subconsciously racist. I am not even kidding. They are much different players and human beings.
that’s not an accurate comparison but it’s also not a reach. I think he was comparing him to College V.Young aka Mr.Take-over-the-game. Vince was more talented physically but Dw4 is light years ahead as far as mental strength goes.
 

cdrw

Practice Squad
If the O line can keep Watson upright, he will be one of the best in this new generation of Q.B.'s. I am a Saints fan, and after watching the performance Watson put on Monday night, the Texans have the real deal.

It was amazing to see what he did in 2 plays near the end. That's what the great ones do.
 

mws

Waterboy
I don't know about top 5 yet but I do think he could be the best QB a Houston team has ever had. I guess the biggest change for me was when we got the ball at the end I had a lot of confidence that we could score & take the lead. It's been a long time since I felt this way.
 

Texanmike02

Hall of Fame
Brees
Brady
Rodgers

After that I think it's open for discussion. Mahomes has a lot more talent around him; a better OL, better targets, a better ground game.... and tbh, a better pass defense.

Honestly there is a second tier below the top 3 that is really like 8-10 deep. QB play is a lot better this year than in the past.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I wonder if many of the people who drill down so much on the peripheral help that Mahomes has have spent much time actually watching him play, or if they perhaps just doth protest too much.

He didn't have Reid or Hill or a solid oline or the college equivalent of much of anything of that really at TTech ... and he still balled the f*ck out making the vast majority of the same kinds of plays we see in KC. Some of us even said as much heading into the draft ... kinda why we wanted him.

And the latter there has zero to do with Watson and how much he should be appreciated. But that's kinda the thing ... these two, though connected through their draft classes and whatnot ... they can actually be compartmentalized for who they individuality are. Like, it's possible.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Homer eyes tell you you guys that he's a top five QB but if that's what a top five QB looks like then the league must be in dire straights. He's a top five tackling dummy who looks to me like he's learned to hold the ball too long and probably has a head start on his future case of CTE. This isn't how you develop a talented young QB with the kind of amazing abilities that Watson came here with. It's how you turn a QB like that into a shell of himself and wipe out all that potential in a handful of years.

Sure, every now and then what he was destined to be when he came here shines through but it's not going to happen playing for the Texans under O'Brien.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Homer eyes tell you you guys that he's a top five QB but if that's what a top five QB looks like then the league must be in dire straights. He's a top five tackling dummy who looks to me like he's learned to hold the ball too long and probably has a head start on his future case of CTE. This isn't how you develop a talented young QB with the kind of amazing abilities that Watson came here with. It's how you turn a QB like that into a shell of himself and wipe out all that potential in a handful of years.

Sure, every now and then what he was destined to be when he came here shines through but it's not going to happen playing for the Texans under O'Brien.

Ouch. Thanks for the kill joy. Lol but you're right.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I wonder if many of the people who drill down so much on the peripheral help that Mahomes has have spent much time actually watching him play, or if they perhaps just doth protest too much.

He didn't have Reid or Hill or a solid oline or the college equivalent of much of anything of that really at TTech ... and he still balled the f*ck out making the vast majority of the same kinds of plays we see in KC. Some of us even said as much heading into the draft ... kinda why we wanted him.

And the latter there has zero to do with Watson and how much he should be appreciated. But that's kinda the thing ... these two, though connected through their draft classes and whatnot ... they can actually be compartmentalized for who they individuality are. Like, it's possible.
Very true in a strict talent comparison, but the end result is all about winning. Deshaun Watson has been a champion every stage of his career, has struggled through adversity and persevered. Mahomes has been insulated to a certain extent, not much in terms of expectation at Texas Tech so he can fly beneath the radar and pad his individual stats and showcase the arm talent and ability to diagnose the defense that NFL teams covet. What was his college career record? Did he win much in high school? Watson shined in the SEC, and Mahomes did so too, but in the Big 12 - big difference. In the playoff game last year against New England you could glance at the stats and say "damn he did his thing" but if you dig deeper you can see that NE defense forced him into a 50% completion percentage in that game. Gave up some big plays, but in the end were able to come away with a win. Regular season awards and accolades are cool, but I want a guy who will show up when the lights are the brightest. 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives is Deshaun Watson time! Sans the INDY game last year that was a clusterfk of game preparation and a flawed lineup I think Deshauns DNA is just made for the big game.

Mahomes is an exceptional talent and deserves the attention, he was paired perfectly with Reid and the two should have a long, successful career together. Very Donovan McNabb"ish". I know his teams are usually up big late in games and his "clutch" gene hasnt been tested much (at least I havent dove deep into that aspect yet, maybe he has) but I know Watson is never out of a game.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
FWIW, Chris Simms had Watson ranked at #5 before the season. Now #4 since Luck retired. . .

Of course, Simms also had Brady at #9, so wtf does he know?!. . .lol :thinking:

Personally, I see Watson's potential as a top 5 talent. However, in a team game, it obviously takes a lot more for QBs to truly reach their full potential. Coaching and front office have as much to do with it, and in that regard, I'm not convinced that O'Brien is the coach that will realize Watson's full potential before he gets Andrew Lucked out of the game.

I'd love to see Watson with the consistent pass protection that Mahomes gets every week. Of course, Mahomes has a fantastic quick release and decision making that I hope Watson will evolve into, but schemes help with that, as well.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Very true in a strict talent comparison, but the end result is all about winning. Deshaun Watson has been a champion every stage of his career, has struggled through adversity and persevered. Mahomes has been insulated to a certain extent, not much in terms of expectation at Texas Tech so he can fly beneath the radar and pad his individual stats and showcase the arm talent and ability to diagnose the defense that NFL teams covet. What was his college career record? Did he win much in high school? Watson shined in the SEC, and Mahomes did so too, but in the Big 12 - big difference. In the playoff game last year against New England you could glance at the stats and say "damn he did his thing" but if you dig deeper you can see that NE defense forced him into a 50% completion percentage in that game. Gave up some big plays, but in the end were able to come away with a win. Regular season awards and accolades are cool, but I want a guy who will show up when the lights are the brightest. 4th quarter comebacks/game winning drives is Deshaun Watson time! Sans the INDY game last year that was a clusterfk of game preparation and a flawed lineup I think Deshauns DNA is just made for the big game.

Mahomes is an exceptional talent and deserves the attention, he was paired perfectly with Reid and the two should have a long, successful career together. Very Donovan McNabb"ish". I know his teams are usually up big late in games and his "clutch" gene hasnt been tested much (at least I havent dove deep into that aspect yet, maybe he has) but I know Watson is never out of a game.
I agree with you in general about DW's sort of 'it' moxie. And I'm stoked that a guy like that is wearing my team's laundry.

That said, I don't think the comparisons in wins and losses really hold water when they're done across college programs like Texas Tech and Clemson.

In Mahomes' final season in Lubbock they only won 5 games, sure, but his offense put up 44 ppg. So ya, maybe if he'd moonlighted as a safety..

And Watson absolutely piloted that Clemson ship to success, but let's not act like that ship wasn't absolutely loaded irrespective of his talent. Or that it hasn't been in the title hunt every year since he's left.

For all that people say about what a raw deal DW's got since entering the league, and they're by and large correct, or the cush situation Mahomes fell into in KC, and they're right ... the reverse can be said when trying to measure up their ncaa successes.

They're both terrific and I hope they put together a long, exciting Brady/Manning-esque afc rivalry.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I agree with you in general about DW's sort of 'it' moxie. And I'm stoked that a guy like that is wearing my team's laundry.

That said, I don't think the comparisons in wins and losses really hold water when they're done across college programs like Texas Tech and Clemson.

In Mahomes' final season in Lubbock they only won 5 games, sure, but his offense put up 44 ppg. So ya, maybe if he'd moonlighted as a safety..

And Watson absolutely piloted that Clemson ship to success, but let's not act like that ship wasn't absolutely loaded irrespective of his talent. Or that it hasn't been in the title hunt every year since he's left.

For all that people say about what a raw deal DW's got since entering the league, and they're by and large correct, or the cush situation Mahomes fell into in KC, and they're right ... the reverse can be said when trying to measure up their ncaa successes.

They're both terrific and I hope they put together a long, exciting Brady/Manning-esque afc rivalry.
Watson single handedly brought that team back from the depths of failure against what could possibly be the greatest NCAA football team ever assembled (Alabama) one time he was a few yards short, the next time he brought home the trophy. Signature wins. Yes Clemson is a juggernaut, I understand, but there was a reason Watson was selected as the QB for that team too.

What have Mahomes signature wins been as a collegiate? Air Raid offenses are supposed to put up big scoring numbers no? My point being is that Watson elevates everyone around him, and Mahomes plays his role perfectly, but if the stars dont align around him he tends to struggle. In college he put up astronomical, eye popping numbers. His WIKI has those games against TCU, and Oklahoma that are good examples of Mahomes elevating his play to match the talent level in opposition, but still I dont see that guy that will just put the team on his back with one minute to go and say "i got this, ya'll relax" .. Deshaun already has 5 game winning drives/4th Q comebacks on his resume and while its not entirely fair to use that metric against Mahomes, since his teams are rarely losing late in games, its still very much relevant for post season expectations IMO.

That KC game in a few weeks is going to be so good.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
@PFF_Texans: Deshaun Watson has impressed this season, making the top five of PFF current quarterback rankings.

https://t.co/fH5IYGkOJE


5. DESHAUN WATSON, HOUSTON TEXANS
It’s been all about big plays for Watson, who is tied with Brady for second in big-time throw percentage at 7.4%. We’ve seen a few spectacular plays, including a near-comeback in Week 1 against the New Orleans Saints and a few gems this week against the Los Angeles Chargers, but Watson is inviting too much pressure and ranks just 22nd at avoiding negatively graded throws. Watson’s big-play ability has been the story of his young career, but he is still working to find the balance between avoiding pressure and adding more value in the short game.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Though we lost, I’m still kind of happy. watching Watson vs top tier qbs is the same entertainment value as watching the super bowl. He looked like a top 3 Qb prime cam mix with Rodgers. It’s a reason why we’ve been prime time since we drafted him. The gm knew that at the time. Watson’s going toe to toe with the best. He’s been clutch but the defense keeps letting him down (Pats, hawks, eagles, saints). Which leads me to ask after week 1 after watching every qb highlights, where would you rank Watson at his position.
He's in the tier just below elite.
He is only going to get better and better.
 
If we’re being honest here. Deshaun has always been the best player on the field besides playing A.Donald, Brady and Wilson last season. I said we would win a ring in his 3rd season when we drafted him. I know Patriots are not Alabama. There a nfl team lol but I wouldn’t count out Deshaun if he reaches the playoffs. That guy works miracles
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
If we’re being honest here. Deshaun has always been the best player on the field besides playing A.Donald, Brady and Wilson last season. I said we would win a ring in his 3rd season when we drafted him. I know Patriots are not Alabama. There a nfl team lol but I wouldn’t count out Deshaun if he reaches the playoffs. That guy works miracles
The Patriots have their Saban, while the Texans don't have their Swinney, unfortunately.

:kitten:
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
DESHAUN WATSON WAS LIGHTS OUT ON LONGER THROWS
The majority of NFL quarterbacks have three or fewer big-time throws so far this season. Meanwhile, Deshaun Watson had four alone just last week, with all of them coming on throws targeted 10 or more yards downfield. On those passes, he went 8-of-14 for 215 yards and three touchdowns, accumulating a grade of 89.7 in those situations. While his offensive line remains shaky, Watson continues to impress.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-20-pff-stats-to-know-after-week-3-of-the-2019-nfl-regular-season
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
DESHAUN WATSON WAS LIGHTS OUT ON LONGER THROWS
The majority of NFL quarterbacks have three or fewer big-time throws so far this season. Meanwhile, Deshaun Watson had four alone just last week, with all of them coming on throws targeted 10 or more yards downfield. On those passes, he went 8-of-14 for 215 yards and three touchdowns, accumulating a grade of 89.7 in those situations. While his offensive line remains shaky, Watson continues to impress.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-20-pff-stats-to-know-after-week-3-of-the-2019-nfl-regular-season
Jesus with Cleats!!!

 

Texansphan

All Pro
As Watson gains more confidence in his OL, the more you'll see him stepping into those deep passes which will yield far better results when guys are open downfield.
We just have to figure out how to consistently establish a run game and scheme a few more short passes for 1st downs.
Getting rid of the ball quickly is also a good antidote for an underachieving oline.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I still think so.

O'Brien even made Brady look like crap in the two playoff games he was the playcaller for on the pats.

Today , OB wasn't the biggest of the problems. Other than the One Boneheaded DHop pass play , he wasn't horrible.
Watson had guys open and just missed them on at least 6-7 plays - enough to change the course of the game dramatically.

The OL didn't do him any favors but several of those were real easy throws and Watson just missed them (and I'm not talking about just those two big plays that were inches away from being TD's).
 

slice15slice

Practice Squad
You could make that argument. Problem is he doesn’t have a lot of shelf life. See Newton, Cam.

I’m guessing he’s done by 30, or at he very least a shadow of himself now.

He’s half the size of Cam and doesn’t need to be rushing 100 times a season and getting wallpaper pasted 50+ times behind the line a year.

Right now I’d say yes, but wouldn’t be surprised in a few years from now he’s already on his downward trajectory
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Disagree there. OB got hired here and at Penn State for how well he and that offense did. They played a fantastic Jets defense that just played a great game. OB was a solid OC in the NE and there were never any complaints about him.
Why would he go to Penn State if he was such an offensive genius?

He was a terrible oc in the playoffs for two years which is why belichick brought back mcdaniels asap.

The writing was on the wall for obrien there
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Why would he go to Penn State if he was such an offensive genius?

He was a terrible oc in the playoffs for two years which is why belichick brought back mcdaniels asap.

The writing was on the wall for obrien there
No one called him an offensive genius other than some Texans fans around the city. Other than that, the title of that is pretty much fake news.

OB never had a bad reputation what so ever in NE. What you're saying is simply not true. He was never ran out of NE.

Getting a HC job at a huge school like Penn State was a great opportunity for him. It was a difficult one based on what had just happened, but he took it and made the most of it.

You can pick apart his career here all you want, but his track record on those two places was positive. That's why the Texans and other teams not only had interest in him, but also why the Bob McNair paid a ton of money to get him out of his contract. His stock was high for a reason.
 
Why would he go to Penn State if he was such an offensive genius?

He was a terrible oc in the playoffs for two years which is why belichick brought back mcdaniels asap.

The writing was on the wall for obrien there
Kdog you yourself posted the link to the old NE thread about BoB as their OC and it was pointed out to you then that most were happy with him. You tried to spin it like that weren't by quoting one guy multiple times. Also look at the timeline, BB didn't bring back Mcdaniels till after BoB had interviewed and accepted the Penn State job. As far as why go to Penn state it was a promotion, HC of a college team is better than OC of an NFL team and hell in some cases better than HC of an NFL team, or do you really think Dabo couldn't get a job in the NFL if he wanted to? Penn State was an absolute mess and were even banned from having a post season no matter what their record was. No other coach, that actually had a chance of success, was willing to take that on except BoB. I assume he did because he knew if he did make it work then he could write his own check. He made it work and the McNair's handed him the check for him to write.

Say what you want about his time here, and there is a lot that can be said, but at NE and Penn State he was solid and did right by both of those orgs.
 


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