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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

KarlK said:
Solid retort: I say that he gets alot of his production in garbage time, and a statistic that you provided supports that very assertion......yet i'm not objective. Makes perfect sense.
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Drunkards and lamp posts.

This is why I don't bother posting anything about numbers anymore. If you aren't trying to find something wrong with your conclusion then you're doing it wrong.
 
KarlK said:
Solid retort: I say that he gets alot of his production in garbage time, and a statistic that you provided supports that very assertion......yet i'm not objective. Makes perfect sense.
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My original point is that the qbr is an indicator, but it grades the qb as well as the play calling etc. We watched Obrien follow that same pattern with several QB while Watson has a history of winning. No telling if it was a reflection of the coach or the QB.
 
michaelm said:
You should have been.

Watson 108.6.

*edit
Lol maybe I should have checked first.

Wilson 111.5.
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Also just to be clear, the convo was about all-time passer rating not just this season.

Which as of right this second DW is technically number 1 with a 103.6.

But Rodgers and Wilson are still yet to play this week and could bump back up, but maybe not. And like I said though Mahomes is sitting at a cool 110.3 with just 27 pass attempts before he qualifies for the ranking. So spots 2-4 are pretty much up for grabs until Pat decides to maybe come back down to earth.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Also just to be clear, the convo was about all-time passer rating not just this season.
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I think it was Seth Payne tearing this list apart yesterday. Prescott, Cousins, Romo are 6, 7, & 8... so what is this list really telling us?

What was Rodgers, Wilson, & Brees passer rating when they crossed 1500 passes? Has their ratings gone up or down?

It's definitely an interesting list, but what is it really telling us?
 
thunderkyss said:
The list from 2010
  1. Aaron Rogers... 98.4
  2. Phillip Rivers... 97.2
  3. Steve Young... 96.8
  4. Tony Romo... 95.5
  5. Tom Brady... 95.2
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The cutoff date(s) between eras are probably more meaningful as to when there's a significant rule change regarding the passing game.
And Passer Rating only measure those certain criteria.
 
thunderkyss said:
I know we look at what Watson is doing & we start planning the Super Bowl parade.


Then you look down the list & see Stafford, Mariotta, Pennington.
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Quite the opposite.....I look at that list and only 2 questions come to mind:

1. Could the QB’s on that list duplicate Watson’s results if playing for the Texans during Watson’s tenure?

2. Could Watson duplicate the other QB’s results playing on their teams during the same period of time?

Me, Watson could be even better playing on a complete team....and that could be pretty damn special.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think it was Seth Payne tearing this list apart yesterday. Prescott, Cousins, Romo are 6, 7, & 8... so what is this list really telling us?

What was Rodgers, Wilson, & Brees passer rating when they crossed 1500 passes? Has their ratings gone up or down?

It's definitely an interesting list, but what is it really telling us?
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I think it tells us what we've already known for some time, and that's just how advanced and sophisticated the nfl passing game has become. Passer ratings steadily being on the rise has been a subsequent given.

And Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees have each had different trajectories for each different reasons as they all came into the league at different times and each had different learning curves.

I can't speak for anyone else but I was merely pointing out originally that Mahomes is soon to own that list for a very long time in all likelihood. Then I realized midway that Watson was for this brief moment at the top, which to me wasn't parade-worthy or anything like that. Like I said it doesn't immediately make him the best all-time qb. I took it as a fun, quirky little nugget to just enjoy for shiggles for a moment.
 
Corrosion said:
Here's a tool to calculate QBR .... If anyone wants to crunch all the numbers by quarter / ahead / behind .... find the play by play for each game to get your numbers.

QB Rating Calculator

www.brucey.net
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That's how you calculate the PASSER RATING, not the QBR. The QBR is an ESPN stat where guys pull numbers out of the air and try to make a determination about whether someone is playing average or not.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Also just to be clear, the convo was about all-time passer rating not just this season.

Which as of right this second DW is technically number 1 with a 103.6.

But Rodgers and Wilson are still yet to play this week and could bump back up, but maybe not. And like I said though Mahomes is sitting at a cool 110.3 with just 27 pass attempts before he qualifies for the ranking. So spots 2-4 are pretty much up for grabs until Pat decides to maybe come back down to earth.
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I may or may not have been operating on an impaired level at the time of my post lol
 
Don't need passer rating or any stat. Just watch the kid. He looks as comfortable as he's ever been playing the position and it showing. Also appears that he's got the chemistry down with his WR's which was lacking earlier this year. I think we're finally gonna break through and have a QB breach the 30 TD barrier for the 1st time.
 
texanswire.usatoday.com

4 reasons Texans QB Deshaun Watson has taken fewer sacks

Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson has cut down his sacks, and offensive coordinator Tim Kelly has four explanations why.
texanswire.usatoday.com texanswire.usatoday.com

Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson has taken 28 sacks, the fewest of his career through the first 11 games of a season. Offensive coordinator Tim Kelly provided four reasons as to why Watson has done a great job of staying off his back this season.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
texanswire.usatoday.com

4 reasons Texans QB Deshaun Watson has taken fewer sacks

Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson has cut down his sacks, and offensive coordinator Tim Kelly has four explanations why.
texanswire.usatoday.com texanswire.usatoday.com

Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson has taken 28 sacks, the fewest of his career through the first 11 games of a season. Offensive coordinator Tim Kelly provided four reasons as to why Watson has done a great job of staying off his back this season.
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It's raining "positive" Watson articles today......any chance the anti Watson group has any counter articles they can post up for a complete picture?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
It's raining "positive" Watson articles today......any chance the anti Watson group has any counter articles they can post up for a complete picture?
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Aside from @steelbtexan I don't really think there is an "anti-Watson" group.


The rest of us just don't agree with the top 5 evaluation and think he has some things to improve before we are willing to agree with that assessment. Top 10 sure , top 5 .... not so much.

Yeah , he's been really good the in 3 of the last 4 games .... but you have to consider the competition was the Jags , the corpse of the Patriots and a bad Lions team.

He's only had one really solid game against a .500 or better team - the Titans and their defense sucks almost as much as the Texans defense.
 
Corrosion said:
Aside from @steelbtexan I don't really think there is an "anti-Watson" group.


The rest of us just don't agree with the top 5 evaluation and think he has some things to improve before we are willing to agree with that assessment. Top 10 sure , top 5 .... not so much.

Yeah , he's been really good the in 3 of the last 4 games .... but you have to consider the competition was the Jags , the corpse of the Patriots and a bad Lions team.

He's only had one really solid game against a .500 or better team - the Titans and their defense sucks almost as much as the Texans defense.
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Top 6?
 
Corrosion said:
Aside from @steelbtexan I don't really think there is an "anti-Watson" group.


The rest of us just don't agree with the top 5 evaluation and think he has some things to improve before we are willing to agree with that assessment. Top 10 sure , top 5 .... not so much.

Yeah , he's been really good the in 3 of the last 4 games .... but you have to consider the competition was the Jags , the corpse of the Patriots and a bad Lions team.

He's only had one really solid game against a .500 or better team - the Titans and their defense sucks almost as much as the Texans defense.
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Those big games against complete teams require the Texans to field a comparable team.....can’t just Watson out there and then wonder why he can’t elevate and beat the better team.

I’d also go out on limb and say, Watson will become dangerous and consistent once this team is elevated talent wise.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
It's raining "positive" Watson articles today......any chance the anti Watson group has any counter articles they can post up for a complete picture?
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There's a "bad Watson" thread. In fact, this was created in response to that one. But it got ignored shortly after this one was created because, well, we're just not going to have a happy, optimistic thread on this board, gosh darn it! There are Texans fans that can't even muster saying anything positive about JJ Watt these days. Stay in your gap, you idiot!!! :pissed:
 
Corrosion said:
Aside from @steelbtexan I don't really think there is an "anti-Watson" group.


The rest of us just don't agree with the top 5 evaluation and think he has some things to improve before we are willing to agree with that assessment. Top 10 sure , top 5 .... not so much.

Yeah , he's been really good the in 3 of the last 4 games .... but you have to consider the competition was the Jags , the corpse of the Patriots and a bad Lions team.

He's only had one really solid game against a .500 or better team - the Titans and their defense sucks almost as much as the Texans defense.
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Believe me

I'm not an anti Watson guy, I really hope he improves.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
And respectfully my point is that your "point" isn't much of one at all. It would be like my boss telling me during my year-end evaluation that I need to do better quality work, faster. That's obvious. It's equally obvious that all QBs not named Brady or Brees need to do a better job at balancing the desire for big, explosive plays with a willingness to cut their losses when appropriate.



And I understand the consequent pushback and counternarrative. But as a lurker on this board for the past few years, I would say that the Mahomes/Brady comparisons ("Now that is what a real QB looks like") far outweigh the Jesus in Cleats type of statements.



I wouldn't even take Wilson. He's getting sacked at an even higher rate than Watson this year.



This is quite a bit to unpack.

I think Watson is an excellent QB between the 20s. I think his struggles are mostly in the red zone. Obviously, everything is tighter down there and the decision-making process gets sped up. I think this is the biggest improvement he needs to make in order to make that jump to the next level. Otherwise, the Texans will be an offense that puts up pretty good stats year after year with not a whole lot of points to show for it.
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Um, you haven't looked at the stats have you? His completion percentage is lower in the redzone. However, he has 31 TDs and 2 INTs the last 2 seasons (NO Ints this year) in the redzone.
 
Speedy said:
And is that not a good sign? A player who knows his faults and works to improve? And is actually showing those improvements on the field? If they ever do get a team around him, ala KC, and coaching that actually knows how to take advantage, ala KC, the sky's the limit here.
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And does some of the things Corrosion mentioned he needs to improve upon.
 
steelbtexan said:
Whoever thought Cousins was avg was very wrong. Kubiak is a QB guru and Cousins still hasn't improved. I guess Cousins is still young and learning a new offense.
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If he's below average, then what does that make Tannehill? Cousins was a better QB in DC than Tannehill was in Miami. And it's not like the Skins were even an average football team.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
If he's below average, then what does that make Tannehill? Cousins was a better QB in DC than Tannehill was in Miami. And it's not like the Skins were even an average football team.
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When healthy Tannehill was the better QB on a worse team. The fact that Tannehill took the Dolphins to the playoffs is an amazing feat. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
When healthy Tannehill was the better QB on a worse team. The fact that Tannehill took the Dolphins to the playoffs is an amazing feat. IMHO
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You clearly haven't watched many Redskins games. The very definition of dumpster juice.

Cousins and Tannehill are very comparable QBs as far as talent (and production) goes.
 
steelbtexan said:
Thanks for putting a number on it.

Of course next yrs built in excuse is going to be he was learning a new offense. Then the yr after that the $$$$ on his extension kicks in, so then the excuse will be that they weren't able to add talent around him because they're in cap he**. The yr after that there will be more excuses etc...

Truth is the Texans are so screwed for the next 4-5 yrs and I would say this to the McNair's. You get what you deserve, if they even care at all about putting a winning product on the field.
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I don't see a multitude of excuses being needed.....the primary excuse is right in front of your eyes and it's rarely mentioned. Bottom line, Watson will always have an excuse until the McNairs find a way to add a solid GM. Then that GM finds a way to put a HC and staff together that possess the ability to build a scheme around Watson's strengths and coach up the players on the roster. Finally, to put a team around Watson that improves his chance for success. Watson has done an amazing job with the Texans to date....and that's been with a team that had no business being on the same field as KC, Ravens, Steelers, and Bills in the first place. If the talent improves, Watson could play the game against any of these teams with very good odds of putting "W's" in the column.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Whoever thought Cousins was avg was very wrong. Kubiak is a QB guru and Cousins still hasn't improved. I guess Cousins is still young and learning a new offense.
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Why even bring that up......Cousins has sucked arse since he was drafted. I couldn't believe the Vikings signed him to that stupid contract and kicked Keenum to the curb after the season he had given them. They sign CK and all that extra money goes to positions of need and they probably remain much better off than what they've become under Cousins.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
Watson needs time to grow up and develop a better feel for the game and his position.
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So , the discussion (that started all this crap) was is he or isn't he the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Right this minute the answer is No .... talk to me in a couple years and we'll see if he's moved me from that position.
 
Texansballer74 said:
All because you think Watson comments aligns with yours doesn’t mean he’s not a top 5 quarterback currently.
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4-7 with a bunch of empty stats doesn't make him one either ... and no wins against .500 or better teams and only one good game against a .500 or better team who's defense is maybe the only one in the league as bad as the Texans.

Then there's 51-7

21-7 to the Colts at home in the playoffs.

I know , I know , its someone else's fault.
 
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