Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

[Texansballer74]

So , the discussion (that started all this crap) was is he or isn't he the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Right this minute the answer is No .... talk to me in a couple years and we'll see if he's moved me from that position.

No he’s not the greatest thing since slice freaking bread. Lol smh that’s how you took it because Earl, Speedy, Optimistic and myself doesn’t criticize him on the level that you do. It’s like you’re mad because some of us thinks he’s a top 5 quarterback. We looked past the terrible offensive line play, incompetent play calling and no running game. Again yes he has several areas to his game that need improvement. But if he was in a better situation you can best believe he would be top 2 easily.

 

[Texansballer74]

4-7 with a bunch of empty stats doesn't make him one either ... and no wins against .500 or better teams and only one good game against a .500 or better team who's defense is maybe the only one in the league as bad as the Texans.

Then there's 51-7

21-7 to the Colts at home in the playoffs.

I know , I know , its someone else's fault.

So that’s on him lol at least three of those losses were on that sorry crappy defense.


And that’s loss is on all of them especially that sorry ash defense and O’Brien dumb decisions.


I knew your views were slated.

 

[ClemsonTexan]

4-7 with a bunch of empty stats doesn't make him one either ... and no wins against .500 or better teams and only one good game against a .500 or better team who's defense is maybe the only one in the league as bad as the Texans.

Then there's 51-7

21-7 to the Colts at home in the playoffs.

I know , I know , its someone else's fault.

41-0. Not sure why the Colts didn't move on from Manning after this performance.

Manning's stat line.

14/31. 0 TDs. 2 INTs. 137 yards.

 

[Corrosion]

Off the top of your head, has there been an increase or decrease in negative plays since 51-7, or are they about the same?

He's definitely taken fewer sacks in recent weeks , part of that is he's not waiting for the pressure to get there before he gets out of the pocket and that's fine by me.

I'm starting to believe that he will figure it out eventually. He plainly said what needed to change , now lets see how he adapts.


What I'm wondering is what brought that about .... I have a suspicion that it is a more defensive minded voice having his ear in RAC rather than OB asking him to stay in the pocket and chuck it downfield.

You look at this offense over the course of the last two or three years and their typical scoring drive has them making multiple chunk plays within that drive. They haven't often marched it down the field 10 , 12 plays or more. They either get those chunk plays and move down the field in 6-8 plays or give the ball back.

OB was the worst thing that happened to Watson.

 

[Corrosion]

41-0.

So he wasn't spotted a 24 point lead and didn't help blow it ? .... Got it.

 

[Corrosion]

Why even bring that up.......

Ask that guy who called him an above average talent (@ClemsonTexan)

Cousins has a good arm .... other than that he's hot garbage , terrible decision maker.

 

[Texansballer74]

Nitpicking and cherry picking and for what?

Our fan base is up there with Philly fan base.

 

[Corrosion]

I knew your views were slated.

Yep , that reads pretty slanted to me ....

If he picks his spots better - when to go after that big play and when to take the gimmie that eliminates many of the negative or net zero plays and the offense can sustain drives rather than needing multiple 20+ yard plays to produce points .... That changes the whole dynamic of the game when you can control the ball / clock and sustain drives , then he's probably not just top 5 but top 1 and we can all forget about our Mahomes envy.

 

[ClemsonTexan]

So he wasn't spotted a 24 point lead and didn't help blow it ? .... Got it.

Nope. He just failed to score. Period.

This conversation is venturing into the irrational now. Nobody is going to lay the blame for a playoff defeat at the feet of a 2nd year QB. And the focus of last year's playoff game is rightly on O'Brien's inability to come up with a play on 4th and 1 in enemy territory with a 21 point lead ("We didn't have a good play for that situation") as well as his decision to fake a punt up 24-7 in his own territory. Blame can be rightly assigned up and down the 53-man roster, but any halfway competent organization would have sent O'Brien walking immediately after that game.

 

[Texansballer74]

Nope. He just failed to score. Period.

This conversation is venturing into the irrational now. Nobody is going to lay the blame for a playoff defeat at the feet of a 2nd year QB. And the focus of last year's playoff game is rightly on O'Brien's inability to come up with a play on 4th and 1 in enemy territory with a 21 point lead ("We didn't have a good play for that situation") as well as his decision to fake a punt up 24-7 in his own territory. Blame can be rightly assigned up and down the 53-man roster, but any halfway competent organization would have sent O'Brien walking immediately after that game.

You’re speaking the truth here. Good stuff

 

[Corrosion]

Nope. He just failed to score. Period.

This conversation is venturing into the irrational now. Nobody is going to lay the blame for a playoff defeat at the feet of a 2nd year QB. And the focus of last year's playoff game is rightly on O'Brien's inability to come up with a play on 4th and 1 in enemy territory with a 21 point lead ("We didn't have a good play for that situation") as well as his decision to fake a punt up 24-7 in his own territory. Blame can be rightly assigned up and down the 53-man roster, but any halfway competent organization would have sent O'Brien walking immediately after that game.

No , you took it off the deep end with an irrational comparison of another player having a piss poor game when that's not really the discussion.


I don't know what you want me to do say than agree with you that he's wonder boy when what I've said is essentially that he can be all that and a bag of chips but he aint there yet.

 

[Texansballer74]

No , you took it off the deep end with an irrational comparison of another player having a piss poor game when that's not really the discussion.


I don't know what you want me to do say than agree with you that he's wonder boy when what I've said is essentially that he can be all that and a bag of chips but he aint there yet.

His peers and plenty big time media heads thinks he is. Shoots I know a lot of fans from others that thinks he’s there. But hey you’re the Mecca around here so your opinion Trumps us all.

 

[dream_team]

I can't name 3 QB's I'd rather have for the next five years - Mahomes , Wilson ....There's a couple others I'd take for a shorter window but they won't be around a heck of a lot longer.

That's pretty much the bottom line. I don't really see an anti-Watson group in here (I do see an anti-Watson person). I think it's fair to be happy with having a player, at the same time criticize their play. There's no perfect player in this league. Everyone has some stuff to improve on.

 

[thunderkyss]

You look at this offense over the course of the last two or three years and their typical scoring drive has them making multiple chunk plays within that drive. They haven't often marched it down the field 10 , 12 plays or more. They either get those chunk plays and move down the field in 6-8 plays or give the ball back.

I think this is the norm, across the league. All the rule changes in the last decade pretty much steered the game this way.

I don’t know if we can call it a flaw in his game, just not the game you prefer. At the same time teams need to put together 12 play drives when they need to.

But teams that regularly grind it out are few & far between & theygenerally avg more than 2.3 yards per carry.

 

[Earl34]

I think this is the norm, across the league. All the rule changes in the last decade pretty much steered the game this way.

I don’t know if we can call it a flaw in his game, just not the game you prefer. At the same time teams need to put together 12 play drives when they need to.

But teams that regularly grind it out are few & far between & theygenerally avg more than 2.3 yards per carry.

Good point. I don't understand how we can sustain drives if the running game is not contributing. If the Colts came out in a dime with only 2 DL, I still don't think the Texans could run the ball.

 

[Corrosion]

I think this is the norm, across the league. All the rule changes in the last decade pretty much steered the game this way.

I don’t know if we can call it a flaw in his game, just not the game you prefer. At the same time teams need to put together 12 play drives when they need to.

But teams that regularly grind it out are few & far between & theygenerally avg more than 2.3 yards per carry.

I think that might be perception but not reality and part of that is poor QB play across the league - there's a huge gap in the haves and have nots at the QB position.

To go the 75 yards from a touchback to the endzone in 6-7 plays you would average 10.7 - 12.5 yards a play .... that's not reality , particularly when you factor in running plays.


More often than not , you'll see teams get one and possibly two chunk plays in a drive while the rest are moderate or net zero plays.

With the Texans offense , we don't see a consistent moderate play volume , its 1-3 yards up the centers backside and a combination of 15+ or net zero plays.

Watson's yards per completion leads the league in both yards per attempt and per completion while being 6th in completion percentage.

 

[Corrosion]

His peers and plenty big time media heads thinks he is. Shoots I know a lot of fans from others that thinks he’s there. But hey you’re the Mecca around here so your opinion Trumps us all.

Dude , really are you just trolling .... cause I don't know how much more complimentary one could be than I have in the last couple pages on Watson.

It seems that anything short of Watson is the greatest is not enough to satisfy your lust.

 

[Texansballer74]

Dude , really are you just trolling .... cause I don't know how much more complimentary one could be than I have in the last couple pages on Watson.

It seems that anything short of Watson is the greatest is not enough to satisfy your lust.

Man Stop it . That question could be ask to you as well. Not only that but why are you getting all up in your feelings? Shoots that young man has exceeded your stiff evaluation. So why are you still being so outlandishly critical?

 

[Texansballer74]

Ok Corrosion is spot on. From this point on I will agree with everything you say.

 

[CWTexansFan]

Ok Corrosion is spot on. From this point on I will agree with everything you say.

You should try pot. It would benefit you immensely.
Hopefully, he puts another good game together tomorrow. I think he will, if his press conference the other day was not just lip service. He seemed sincere.
God, I hope your side is correct.

 

[thunderkyss]

With the Texans offense , we don't see a consistent moderate play volume , its 1-3 yards up the centers backside and a combination of 15+ or net zero plays.

Watson's yards per completion leads the league in both yards per attempt and per completion while being 6th in completion percentage.

I get you, but it sounds more like a thing of necessity to me. He's got to hit chunk plays when 2nd & 13 is the norm.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think he will, if his press conference the other day was not just lip service. He seemed sincere.
God, I hope your side is correct.

He can want all day... but remember the guys on the other side of the ball get paid too.

 

[Texansballer74]

You should try pot. It would benefit you immensely.
Hopefully, he puts another good game together tomorrow. I think he will, if his press conference the other day was not just lip service. He seemed sincere.
God, I hope your side is correct.

Brother we’re all on the same side. Aren’t we all Texans fans?

Another question; have he not picked up his game? Are we not seeing improvement?

359 yards 3/2. 25 yards rushing
335 yards 4/0.26 yards rushing should’ve won
309 yards 2/0. 38 yards rushing
281 yards 2/0. 50 yards rushing
163 yards 1/0 36 yards rushing bad weather
344 yards 2/0. 36 yards
318 yards 4/0. 24 yards rushing

He’s getting the ball out quicker, something we all complained about.
He’s not taking those sacks anymore, something that’s been beat to death.
He’s not turning the ball over.
He’s pointing out and recognizing who the mike is pre snap.



This team should be either 6-5 or 7-4.

 

[steelbtexan]

You clearly haven't watched many Redskins games. The very definition of dumpster juice.

Cousins and Tannehill are very comparable QBs as far as talent (and production) goes.

Production, yes

Talent level, no

IMHO

 

[steelbtexan]

I don't see a multitude of excuses being needed.....the primary excuse is right in front of your eyes and it's rarely mentioned. Bottom line, Watson will always have an excuse until the McNairs find a way to add a solid GM. Then that GM finds a way to put a HC and staff together that possess the ability to build a scheme around Watson's strengths and coach up the players on the roster. Finally, to put a team around Watson that improves his chance for success. Watson has done an amazing job with the Texans to date....and that's been with a team that had no business being on the same field as KC, Ravens, Steelers, and Bills in the first place. If the talent improves, Watson could play the game against any of these teams with very good odds of putting "W's" in the column.

I dont know how to post video's, but the song impossible dream comes to mind when it comes to this post. Do you really think Cal will be able to do these things? 2. Not meddle if he's able to do the things you listed.

 

[JB]

I dont know how to post video's, but the song impossible dream comes to mind when it comes to this post. Do you really think Cal will be able to do these things? 2. Not meddle if he's able to do the things you listed.

 

[steelbtexan]

Why even bring that up......Cousins has sucked arse since he was drafted. I couldn't believe the Vikings signed him to that stupid contract and kicked Keenum to the curb after the season he had given them. They sign CK and all that extra money goes to positions of need and they probably remain much better off than what they've become under Cousins.

Exactly

Cousins has been below avg not terrible but bottom 3rd of the league and that's with Kubiak coaching him and calling plays. Kubiak is a QB guru.

 

[CWTexansFan]

Brother we’re all on the same side. Aren’t we all Texans fans?

Another question; have he not picked up his game? Are we not seeing improvement?

359 yards 3/2. 25 yards rushing
335 yards 4/0.26 yards rushing should’ve won
309 yards 2/0. 38 yards rushing
281 yards 2/0. 50 yards rushing
163 yards 1/0 36 yards rushing bad weather
344 yards 2/0. 36 yards
318 yards 4/0. 24 yards rushing

He’s getting the ball out quicker, something we all complained about.
He’s not taking those sacks anymore, something that’s been beat to death.
He’s not turning the ball over.
He’s pointing out and recognizing who the mike is pre snap.



This team should be either 6-5 or 7-4.

Yes, we are all on the same side and are very passionate about our team.

Yes, he has shown improvement post Bob. I'm hard on him, but only because I would love to see him truly become a top 3 quarterback. I believe he can, but only if he becomes his own toughest critic to further his game along.

Cleveland game
Is it true that there were 60 mph winds during that game? I believe it was delayed even? We didn't have a chance. Didn't help with the stupid up Martin's ass plays sprinkled throughout. Bad coaching there considering they had to have access to the weather reports. They could've come up with a better short passing game to compensate.

They should be 11-0.

 

[Texansballer74]

I dont know how to post video's, but the song impossible dream comes to mind when it comes to this post. Do you really think Cal will be able to do these things? 2. Not meddle if he's able to do the things you listed.

Go to YouTube
In the search icon type in impossible dreams
Click on the share button
Then paste it here.

Just that simple

 

[Texansballer74]

I dont know how to post video's, but the song impossible dream comes to mind when it comes to this post. Do you really think Cal will be able to do these things? 2. Not meddle if he's able to do the things you listed.

 

[Texansballer74]

Speak the truth Skip in my Shannon Sharpe’s voice

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Yes, we are all on the same side and are very passionate about our team.

Yes, he has shown improvement post Bob. I'm hard on him, but only because I would love to see him truly become a top 3 quarterback. I believe he can, but only if he becomes his own toughest critic to further his game along.

Cleveland game
Is it true that there were 60 mph winds during that game? I believe it was delayed even? We didn't have a chance. Didn't help with the stupid up Martin's ass plays sprinkled throughout. Bad coaching there considering they had to have access to the weather reports. They could've come up with a better short passing game to compensate.

They should be 11-0.

They should’ve ran the “Veer Offense” in the first half of the Cleveland game.......LOL!!

 

[Texansballer74]

Listen closely

 

[Texansballer74]

 

[Texansballer74]

 

[thunderkyss]

Speak the truth Skip in my Shannon Sharpe’s voice

Ok, I've got to do some re-evaluating. My thinking is along the same line as these two, i.e. I must be wrong.

 

[thunderkyss]

Deshaun Watson's QB coach explains how the Texans star managed to get better even as his team fell apart

Houston has actually asked Watson to do more … and he has thrived.

ftw.usatoday.com

Sent from my LM-K500 using Tapatalk

Wow. Good article. Provides "evidence" for what I've been saying. Even with this crappy offense, he's been improving a lot in a very short time.

He's progressed way beyond the point of "young QB" needing those "tricks" to simplify the game. He's operating at a very high level now.

If he had just an average run game we could close out many games we lost on defense. If we had an average defense we could blow out these games we barely won & actually compete in games we got blown out.

He still doesn't play the way I (& many others) want him to play or thought he would, but he's becoming a dam good QB.

 

[Corrosion]

So why are you still being so outlandishly critical?

What exactly about what I said was "outlandishly critical"? Really , explain what was wrong our outlandish about my statement.

The part where I said if he makes the right philosophical changes he can be the best QB in the game and we can forget about our Mahomes envy ?? ....

 

[banned1976]

No , you took it off the deep end with an irrational comparison of another player having a piss poor game when that's not really the discussion.


I don't know what you want me to do say than agree with you that he's wonder boy when what I've said is essentially that he can be all that and a bag of chips but he aint there yet.

The only thing missing for me is the consistency. He’s shown me he’s a complete quarterback. I just want to see that carry over through-out an entire season, against the good and bad teams. I’d like to see fewer dips in his production.

That said, in order for the Texans to compete against the top tier teams in the league, they have to have near perfection from their quarterback. That’s a difficult assignment when your team is 31st in rushing and you had a revolving door at WR in an offseason where you’ve had to isolate from your new connections. And I think that by largely ignoring the other problems, significant problems with this team: coaching change, one dimensional offense (because the opposing defense doesn’t respect the run), a defense that is not good...by mainly ignoring those other things and strictly focusing on Watson’s mistakes, it does look like he’s the biggest problem with this team. When in fact, without Watson the Texans would be scratching and clawing to win any game regardless of the opponent.

I don’t think Watson is the best thing since sliced bread. He is the most talented quarterback this team has ever had and if you only watch the Texans to be entertained, well, without Watson this team would be as entertaining as watching wet paint dry.

 

[ClemsonTexan]

Cousins has been below avg not terrible but bottom 3rd of the league and that's with Kubiak coaching him and calling plays. Kubiak is a QB guru.

Can anyone point to anything objective showing that Cousins is below average or in the bottom 3rd of the League? In terms of what? Completion %? Passer rating? TD to INTs? Yards? Because these things can be researched very quickly and a comparison to the mean can be made very quickly. And in no way is Cousins below average in any of those categories. You can't even say he is a below average QB judging by wins and losses because the Skins went from 3-13 and 4-12 to 9-7 and division winners during his first season under center. A below average QB does not get selected to the Pro Bowl twice.

Again, if Cousins is below average, then so is Tannehill. The only real difference is that the Vikings rely on Cousins to be a playmaker (he's not a good one) while the Titans do not rely on Tannehill to do the same. They are a run first, play action-oriented offense. If Henry got shipped out to another team tomorrow Nuk Hopkins-style, Tannehill would revert to the Miami version of Tannehill. If you put Cousins on the Titans, he'd do even better since he'd have to throw the ball less. They are more or less equal players, but if you think an aging, 32-year old QB on a team with a dominant run game should be a model for Deshaun Watson or something, then so be it.

 

[ClemsonTexan]

When in fact, without Watson the Texans would be scratching and clawing to win any game regardless of the opponent.

Given all of the aforementioned, where do you think the Texans would be with the savvy veteran Ryan Tannehill? Would they even have 4 wins?

 

[steelbtexan]

Given all of the aforementioned, where do you think the Texans would be with the savvy veteran Ryan Tannehill? Would they even have 4 wins?

I'm pretty sure the Texans could've beaten the Lions and Jags twice with Tannehill at QB.

 

[steelbtexan]

Can anyone point to anything objective showing that Cousins is below average or in the bottom 3rd of the League? In terms of what? Completion %? Passer rating? TD to INTs? Yards? Because these things can be researched very quickly and a comparison to the mean can be made very quickly. And in no way is Cousins below average in any of those categories. You can't even say he is a below average QB judging by wins and losses because the Skins went from 3-13 and 4-12 to 9-7 and division winners during his first season under center. A below average QB does not get selected to the Pro Bowl twice.

Again, if Cousins is below average, then so is Tannehill. The only real difference is that the Vikings rely on Cousins to be a playmaker (he's not a good one) while the Titans do not rely on Tannehill to do the same. They are a run first, play action-oriented offense. If Henry got shipped out to another team tomorrow Nuk Hopkins-style, Tannehill would revert to the Miami version of Tannehill. If you put Cousins on the Titans, he'd do even better since he'd have to throw the ball less. They are more or less equal players, but if you think an aging, 32-year old QB on a team with a dominant run game should be a model for Deshaun Watson or something, then so be it.

The only difference is Cousins is a turnover machine playing with an exceptional OC/QB coach.

 

[ClemsonTexan]

The only difference is Cousins is a turnover machine playing with an exceptional OC/QB coach.

Tannehill has more career INTs than Cousins...

Also, what do you think would happen to Tannehill's production if Henry went down with an injury?

 

[Corrosion]

@steelbtexan Just tell them what they want to hear and let it go .... I mean they were arguing with me when I said he could be the best in the league if he fixes something he realized was an issue.

Watson is the bestest.

 

[ClemsonTexan]

@steelbtexan Just tell them what they want to hear and let it go .... I mean they were arguing with me when I said he could be the best in the league if he fixes something he realized was an issue.

Watson is the bestest.

You guys are optimists much the same way Randy Quaid's character in Major League was an optimist. Actually, I think some of you are even worse than that. At least Quaid's character was in a semi-decent mood when the Indians were winning.

 

[JB]

@steelbtexan Just tell them what they want to hear and let it go .... I mean they were arguing with me when I said he could be the best in the league if he fixes something he realized was an issue.

Watson is the bestest.

They're arguing just to argue. Do they even read? Read but don't believe? I don't get it

 

[banned1976]

@steelbtexan Just tell them what they want to hear and let it go .... I mean they were arguing with me when I said he could be the best in the league if he fixes something he realized was an issue.

Watson is the bestest.

It looks like a civil debate to me. But I don’t let myself get emotionally wrapped up in them. I can make a point and move on. I know I’m not going to change anyone’s mind here. If I entered into one of these debates with that thought process, I’d be frustrated too.

 

[Corrosion]

It looks like a civil debate to me. But I don’t let myself get emotionally wrapped up in them. I can make a point and move on. I know I’m not going to change anyone’s mind here. If I entered into one of these debates with that thought process, I’d be frustrated too.

Sure , its civil and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind , that aint happening.

Thing is , no matter what is said , its always wrong , never good enough or someone else's fault.

I'm pretty much done with the debate .... when the guy we're talking about says the same thing I said , nuff said.

 

[Texansballer74]

What exactly about what I said was "outlandishly critical"? Really , explain what was wrong our outlandish about my statement.

The part where I said if he makes the right philosophical changes he can be the best QB in the game and we can forget about our Mahomes envy ?? ....

He’s made those changes, you’re just too caught up in your specific agenda to see it. Over the past 7-8 games he’s improved on everything you complained about. The numbers backs that up. But like you stated I’m done debating with you on this specific topic.