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Tim Kelly Evaluation

Earl34 said:
Color me unimpressed with Tim Kelly. At times, I can see minor differences between him and O'Brien, however too many times I see too many similarities with his mentor. Lack of motion, lack of formations, lack of creativity and an inability to attack the weaknesses/players on the defense.
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That's because they are still using the same playbook - the exact same plays.

The only difference is who's calling them and in what situation.

Did you really expect something dramatically different ?
 
Corrosion said:
That's because they are still using the same playbook - the exact same plays.

The only difference is who's calling them and in what situation.

Did you really expect something dramatically different ?
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Agreed, on top of that, it’s painfully obvious that Kelly is fruit from the OB school of coaching. He looks like he’s in way over his head. This is what you get when you have an egomaniac HC that doesn’t keep anyone around that will disagree or challenge him. I hope our next HC recognizes the value of having excellent coaches around him.
 
Corrosion said:
That's because they are still using the same playbook - the exact same plays.

The only difference is who's calling them and in what situation.

Did you really expect something dramatically different ?
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Last week, they had one of the better runs of the season from the I formation. Over the previous two weeks, I was starting to see more variety with the formations and even motion.

Considering one of the best runs was off tackle from the I formation and @CloakNNNdagger had a post regarding injuries at LB, I thought they would use formation to attack the Packers LBs. I agree same playbook, but there are plays that have been successful and for one reason or the other, they do not call again or go weeks without using.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
David Johnson one of the worst RBs I’ve seen in a while.
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Last night, I was watching Carlos Hyde in the Seahawks and Cardinals game. The starter got injured and Hyde came in had 14 carries for 68 yard and averaged 4.5 YPC. With the combination of this soft OL and Hyde's running style, he is still a better fit for the Texans. Go figure.
 
Earl34 said:
Color me unimpressed with Tim Kelly. At times, I can see minor differences between him and O'Brien, however too many times I see too many similarities with his mentor. Lack of motion, lack of formations, lack of creativity and an inability to attack the weaknesses/players on the defense.
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There’s a huge Bill O’Brien tendency on display yesterday where the O goes through a bad run of games, the scheme gets opened up to compensate, Watson lobs it up and down the field all day for a couple of weeks off the back of some creative motion and threatening to take off on the keeper, then after a couple of better performances it reverts to type and we’re running up the middle first and second down again, and asking Watson to convert 3rd and 7.
 
Kelly was put in an unworkable position. Saddled with O'Brien's playbook, not having the full reigns to the playcalling, not even having preseason games to practice playcalling. Have the team's best offensive weapon traded, and simultaneously the RB position downgraded.

Combine all of that with his limited knowledge of offense (only offensive jobs came under O'Brien), and he was doomed from the start. The guy is probably a fine TE coach. This is not Kelly's fault.
 
15-41 yards by the RB.
Anybody has a clue what the WL records of the elite QBs are when they had a similar running game?
 
Lucky said:
Normally, rushing totals are that low due to playing from behind, rather than the incompetence of the run game. With the Texans, we have both.
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The only game by any team with less than 41 yards rushing I can find (since 1979) using the Game Finder tool on Profootball Reference involves a loss by Peyton Manning to the Jags in 2006.
Mind you, the Colts had Joseph Adai, not David Johnson.
They trailed by just 4 late in the first half.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Indianapolis Colts at Jacksonville Jaguars - December 10th, 2006 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Indianapolis Colts 17 at Jacksonville Jaguars 44 on December 10th, 2006 - Full team and player stats and box score
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
 
Earl34 said:
Last night, I was watching Carlos Hyde in the Seahawks and Cardinals game. The starter got injured and Hyde came in had 14 carries for 68 yard and averaged 4.5 YPC. With the combination of this soft OL and Hyde's running style, he is still a better fit for the Texans. Go figure.
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A timely answer to your question.

******************************************************************************

Why didn't the Texans bring back Carlos Hyde?

Oct. 26, 2020

Carlos Hyde revitalized the Texans' running game a year ago.

Now that the Texans' running game is struggling mightily after trading wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals for running back David Johnson, this is how they got to this point.

When Lamar Miller tore his anterior cruciate ligament during a preseason game against the Dallas Cowboys, the Texans acquired Hyde via a trade from the Kansas City Chiefs for offensive lineman Martinas Rankin.

A physical, punishing inside runner now with the Seattle Seahawks, Hyde injected toughness and tackle-breaking skills with above-average wiggle in the open field. He rushed for a career-high 1,070 yards and expressed serious interest in returning with the Texans as a free agent when his contract expired.

The feeling was mutual, until it wasn't anymore.

Former Texans coach and general manager Bill O'Brien offered Hyde a two-year, $10 million contact contract at the end of the season. O'Brien then directly asked Hyde if he was in or if he was out shortly after the offer was made. When Hyde wanted more time to consider and weigh his options, the Texans eventually moved on and executed the trade for Johnson. Johnson is being paid a $10.2 million salary and has rushed for 392 yards to rank 15th in the NFL.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
A timely answer to your question.

******************************************************************************

Why didn't the Texans bring back Carlos Hyde?

Oct. 26, 2020

Carlos Hyde revitalized the Texans' running game a year ago.

Now that the Texans' running game is struggling mightily after trading wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals for running back David Johnson, this is how they got to this point.

When Lamar Miller tore his anterior cruciate ligament during a preseason game against the Dallas Cowboys, the Texans acquired Hyde via a trade from the Kansas City Chiefs for offensive lineman Martinas Rankin.

A physical, punishing inside runner now with the Seattle Seahawks, Hyde injected toughness and tackle-breaking skills with above-average wiggle in the open field. He rushed for a career-high 1,070 yards and expressed serious interest in returning with the Texans as a free agent when his contract expired.

The feeling was mutual, until it wasn't anymore.

Former Texans coach and general manager Bill O'Brien offered Hyde a two-year, $10 million contact contract at the end of the season. O'Brien then directly asked Hyde if he was in or if he was out shortly after the offer was made. When Hyde wanted more time to consider and weigh his options, the Texans eventually moved on and executed the trade for Johnson. Johnson is being paid a $10.2 million salary and has rushed for 392 yards to rank 15th in the NFL.

THE REST OF THE STORY
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:facepalm:

Sheesh
 
Earl34 said:
Last night, I was watching Carlos Hyde in the Seahawks and Cardinals game. The starter got injured and Hyde came in had 14 carries for 68 yard and averaged 4.5 YPC. With the combination of this soft OL and Hyde's running style, he is still a better fit for the Texans. Go figure.
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Hyde runs the ball hard and with a purpose. David tip toes and doesn’t have great vision.
 

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

The Houston Texans may be trying to please their star quarterback after all.
According to a new report from ESPN’s Dan Graziano, the Texans have blocked interview requests involving offensive coordinator Tim Kelly. Graziano reports that teams have sought to interview Kelly for their offensive coordinator vacancies, but Houston has thrown up the block.
If the Texans are trying to keep Kelly, then it indicates the club could be throwing a bone to quarterback Deshaun Watson, who has great chemistry with the 34-year-old play-caller.
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This has all kinds of dysfunction written all over it.

They should clean house of the coaching staff and F.O. execs with a new GM. Keeping leftovers of a failed regime just seems like something a terribly-run franchise would do.

Of course, telling a player that they get a say in picking a GM and HC is also something a terribly-run franchise would do, so this update should not surprise anyone.
 
Double Barrel said:
This has all kinds of dysfunction written all over it.

They should clean house of the coaching staff and F.O. execs with a new GM. Keeping leftovers of a failed regime just seems like something a terribly-run franchise would do.

Of course, telling a player that they get a say in picking a GM and HC is also something a terribly-run franchise would do, so this update should not surprise anyone.
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Not only that but telling a new HC they have to keep someone regime of the guy you fired is always a bad idea and has never worked for a team. Hire the HC and then say "Give us your list of staff and we'll reach out to them with an offer."
 
maverick512000 said:
So now all we need is a coach on Tomlin's level who I personally consider to be in the top 3 active coaches in the NFL. Should be easy. :)
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You said it was a bad idea. But that's the way the Steelers do it.

This clean slate stuff... Sometimes, yeah. Gotta be done. But if you have a good young coach, wouldn't a winning organization try to keep him? Wouldn't it have been nice to keep little Shanahan on staff... maybe he'd be our HC now. Who knows?

That's not to say I think Kelly is a good coach. But Watson mentioned him.
 
thunderkyss said:
You said it was a bad idea. But that's the way the Steelers do it.

This clean slate stuff... Sometimes, yeah. Gotta be done. But if you have a good young coach, wouldn't a winning organization try to keep him? Wouldn't it have been nice to keep little Shanahan on staff... maybe he'd be our HC now. Who knows?

That's not to say I think Kelly is a good coach. But Watson mentioned him.
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I see your point but at the same time Steelers weren't having a lot of success before drafting Big Ben and they've been hit or miss each year even after. Likewise OB was fired 4 games into the season but we saw nothing of what Kelly can do as an OC and really how could he be expected to change it up. Other than he was OBs student what on Kelly's background would have qualified him to an OC?

Tim Kelly (American football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I don't even know what Offensive quality control coach does.

I'm not saying Kelly is bad per say or that he shouldn't be an OC but he job the job based on OB not based on skill set and then even after OB was fired we went 4-12. Part of that was talent but part was also that we were doing the same thing we had been doing for years that wasn't working.

Makes me kind of question if Watson is looking at talent and ability or looking at who he likes and is friends with. I don't know and couldn't know either way but if its based off talent and ability he is seeing something that I'm sure not so far.
 
If they keep Kelly, he really needs to get better at scripting the opening drive(s). Some of this is surely execution by Watson and the players as well, but we were terrible starting games...every game.

Watson took a big step forward, so I wouldnt be opposed to keeping Kelly for one more year. Just not at the expense of losing a good HC candidate because he cant bring in his guy.
 
Double Barrel said:
This has all kinds of dysfunction written all over it.

They should clean house of the coaching staff and F.O. execs with a new GM. Keeping leftovers of a failed regime just seems like something a terribly-run franchise would do.

Of course, telling a player that they get a say in picking a GM and HC is also something a terribly-run franchise would do, so this update should not surprise anyone.
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The logical way is not how the Texans get down. They have to do things the dysfunctional way.
 
We've heard plenty how this offense is difficult to pick up, how it could take a couple of years or so to really get it down. There's also the adapting game by game BS that was still evident after OB left with the way the Texans would use and get good production out of their TEs, then totally get away from that the next 2 games. If Kelly is going to continue on with that, then he's got to go.

That said, I don't think it would take much for this offense to really be lethal. They've got to get some semblance of a run game, and they've got to get better coaching in the trenches. I don't even think they need much in personnel changes to get the OL decent as I think coaching was THE problem there. Their attempted execution of a screen pass, I've seen Pee Wee teams run it better. Not that they couldn't stand some upgrades along the line, but still. I think better coaching will make a huge difference.

I also don't think it's fair for a HC to come in, where it's his job on the line, and not get to pick his own staff to help him succeed the way he sees it.

Kelly is an OB disciple. He's been with him since 2012, that's all he knows. Unless the new HC talks with him and thinks he can learn him some new concepts that aren't this complicated OB bullshit, and be comfortable with him picking it up, then I don't want him around. But either way, it should be the HC's decision.
 
maverick512000 said:
Not only that but telling a new HC they have to keep someone regime of the guy you fired is always a bad idea and has never worked for a team.
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In the last hour of Clint Stowrner’s show he mentioned Arthur Smith was the Titans OC through multiple regimes. He was in Tennessee before Vrabel was.

Again, I’m not saying Kelly should stay, only several teams have done this & it works out sometimes.

& honestly, it makes sense to me if you’re going to have long term success. Coaches, even the lowest level, need to be treated as assets. Assets you, as a team (organization) are investing in.

You’re churning a ton of people around every time you replace a HC, GM too.

But just like we have scouts that have been with us for a while, we should have coaches that have been around for a while.
 
thunderkyss said:
Might not be a bad idea. If we hire Bieniemy, it would be nice to have someone with play calling experience.

I don't know if I'd like it if we hire Eberflus or Frazier if they are the kind to leave the offensive guy on his own. I wouldn't feel good about that at all.
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Kind of a different piece but what if the Texans hire Bieniemy, you think he would leave the defensive guy on his own?
 
thunderkyss said:
In the last hour of Clint Stowrner’s show he mentioned Arthur Smith was the Titans OC through multiple regimes. He was in Tennessee before Vrabel was.

Again, I’m not saying Kelly should stay, only several teams have done this & it works out sometimes.

& honestly, it makes sense to me if you’re going to have long term success. Coaches, even the lowest level, need to be treated as assets. Assets you, as a team (organization) are investing in.

You’re churning a ton of people around every time you replace a HC, GM too.

But just like we have scouts that have been with us for a while, we should have coaches that have been around for a while.
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I’m in favor of keeping Kelly around.

Watson may be a large chunk of the reason he had any success this season but OB had Watson too. I thought for being completely in charge of the offense for the first time they functioned well.

Besides production, we have to look at how the unit operates. Even with all the players missing this offense for the most part looked like they were in pretty good sync. There didn’t appear to be a lot of confusion...players in the wrong spots...guys running on/off the field late....tons of wrong routes being run. There was a good pace to the offense and less predictability than under OB. Also, one big thing for a play caller is being able to call great red zone plays. I thought OB sucked at this and Kelly was actually pretty damn good there.

IF OB had maybe given Kelly total control of the offense he ironically might still be here and Kelly may be building on his success and trying to get even better.

I’ll be completely honest; If a defensive coach is hired and they keep Kelly around as the OC I wouldn’t view that as a bad thing.

Defense needs the most fixing anyways.

may be able to appease both JJ and Watson at the same time.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I’m in favor of keeping Kelly around.

Watson may be a large chunk of the reason he had any success this season but OB had Watson too. I thought for being completely in charge of the offense for the first time they functioned well.

Besides production, we have to look at how the unit operates. Even with all the players missing this offense for the most part looked like they were in pretty good sync. There didn’t appear to be a lot of confusion...players in the wrong spots...guys running on/off the field late....tons ofwrong routes being run.

IF OB had maybe given Kelly total control of the offense he ironically might still be here and Kelly may be building on his success and trying to get even better.

I’ll be completely honest. If a defensive coach is hired and they keep Kelly around as the OC I wouldn’t view that as a bad thing.

Defense needs the most fixing anyways.

may be able to appease both JJ and Watson at the same time.
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Agree with your points. I don't mind Kelly being the OC with the new HC. As long as there is a passing game coordinator to tweak those basic pass routes, a new OL coach to help the running game and an experienced assistant HC who was a previous OC to help him discard some of those O'Brien tendencies.
 
Earlier McClain said Kafka would be the new OC in KC. If that is the case, who do you think Bieniemy would bring to install a new offense?
 
thunderkyss said:
I’m actually hoping Bieniemy teaches Kelly & his DC to be better coaches. The Xs & Os they should know well enough. Eliminate penalties & Mistakes & bring 100% each snap.
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I’m hoping Bieniemy, if he is the hire, is a good coach considering there are still a lot of questions marks about him to.
 
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