The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

[xtruroyaltyx]

See, this is my issue with the perception out there. That's not leverage. Sure, he can't be traded until he signs the tender, but the Texans don't have to trade him. Hell, it's probably not even in their best interest to trade him. Leverage is when you have control of a player's rights and can give him an ultimatum that says you either sign and play or you waste your career. If he doesn't sign, it doesn't even take up a roster spot. Like I said, there is really zero opportunity cost for the Texans here.

Both sides have some leverage. It's all about who is willing to call who's bluff.

Texans want to trade him. He knows it. We all know it. They cannot trade him until he signs the tender.

Clowney's leverage as far as where he plays increases the more he's willing to give up game checks.

He can wait until wk 8 after the trade deadline, sign his tender and then he can't be traded. Then they can all try again next year.

But that's his only leverage...not signing the Tender until the trade deadline

 

[Rich Schmidt]

I would like to know if BOB and Clowney have been real men and sat down and had an open and honest conversation to fully understand each other. That is what grown ups do. I see so much thrown about, toxic relationship blah blah. I managed people 30 years, a good sit down and honest conversation can turn toxic into friendship. I have not commented much because we have no facts, does not stop media nor TT board speculation, but my one statement is if the two have not had a face to face honest conversation, this is not going anywhere quick. If they do, I expect Clowney to come in and play on the tag and see where things go. If egos rule, they are like children and noone talks, we probably see him around week 8.

I think Clowney has more to lose, but either one of them can be the big boy and put his hand out for a talk

 

[eriadoc]

... so why should Clowney sign it only to be traded somewhere he doesnt want to be?

A few reasons:

1.) $20M, or whatever it is. That's a lot of money, even for most NFL players. Turning your nose up at that is just pretty stupid, TBH.
2.) The only way he's going to get the long term deal at the money he wants is to show the Texans and the rest of the league that he can perform at a higher level than what he has. That's not to say he hasn't been a good player - of course he has. But he wants money like he's one of the best two or three edge rushers in all of football and his results to this point haven't borne that out. He has a chance to prove that he can do that. All he has to do is play.
3.) Unless he plans to walk away from the game, accrued NFL service time is something very few players want to forego.

By the way, totalitarianism IS leverage. You can only be totalitarian if you have leverage. Otherwise you get overthrown. I'll also point out that I wish things weren't like this in the NFL. But they are, and Clowney probably ought to recognize.

 

[eriadoc]

Both sides have some leverage. It's all about who is willing to call who's bluff.

Texans want to trade him. He knows it. We all know it. They cannot trade him until he signs the tender.

Well, sure. So let's say Clowney calls their bluff, so to speak, and does everything in his power. He holds out until Week 8 (or hell, all season). The Texans then either have to continue on with life, all while controlling his rights, or they get to plug in a guy halfway through the season who's fresh and healthy and presumably, has some desire to show he's worth the sort of contract he's asking for. And then? They get to hit replay on this whole scenario and do it again. And then again, if he wants to repeat. Depending on how much he wants to call their bluff, he could be ... what? 29 years old before he plays football again?

THAT is leverage. Sh!tty, but leverage.

 

[Uncle Rico]

A few reasons:

1.) $20M, or whatever it is. That's a lot of money, even for most NFL players. Turning your nose up at that is just pretty stupid, TBH.
2.) The only way he's going to get the long term deal at the money he wants is to show the Texans and the rest of the league that he can perform at a higher level than what he has. That's not to say he hasn't been a good player - of course he has. But he wants money like he's one of the best two or three edge rushers in all of football and his results to this point haven't borne that out. He has a chance to prove that he can do that. All he has to do is play.
3.) Unless he plans to walk away from the game, accrued NFL service time is something very few players want to forego.

By the way, totalitarianism IS leverage. You can only be totalitarian if you have leverage. Otherwise you get overthrown. I'll also point out that I wish things weren't like this in the NFL. But they are, and Clowney probably ought to recognize.

1. Sure it is, but its only one year. JD Clowey, and all superstar athletes for that matter need the sense of security that guaranteed money from a long contract will give. JD is not 'turning his nose up at it' he was prepared to play for it, but you cant treat him like the weekly special at the HEB meat counter. Having talks stall out to this point is a huge disservice to JD and more importantly the TEAM - JD was ready to play here, this year. THE TEAM changed their minds and wanted to expedite the move NOW when there is hardly any value. JD is going to get paid whether he sits out this year or not.

2. Dude he's among the top players at his position(s) in many categories. the use of sacks to diminish what he does is really not encapsulating all he does for a defense. JD has the most run stuffs since 2016, 3rd most QB pressures, pressures that lead to turnovers .. winning analytics, vs the old and tired sacks argument. If you can stuff the run, and cause pressures that lead to turnovers then you are doing a damn fine job as a defensive lineman in the NFL. On top of that he's making Watts job easier!

3. ABSOLUTELY! I agree .. thats why all he has to do is wait for the trade deadline, report and then he gets his year without risking being traded to a destination that doesnt make sense for him or his family. He's earned the right to have a say in his future.

4. I disagree, totalitarians only exist in places where there is no longer free will and democracy. Neither of which are an issue in this situation. OBrien can sit there and pound the desk all he wants, it wont make JD sign the tender any more or less. JD signs the tender when JD wants to sign it, not when OB wants him to sign it.

 

[Mr teX]

I would like to know if BOB and Clowney have been real men and sat down and had an open and honest conversation to fully understand each other. That is what grown ups do. I see so much thrown about, toxic relationship blah blah. I managed people 30 years, a good sit down and honest conversation can turn toxic into friendship. I have not commented much because we have no facts, does not stop media nor TT board speculation, but my one statement is if the two have not had a face to face honest conversation, this is not going anywhere quick. If they do, I expect Clowney to come in and play on the tag and see where things go. If egos rule, they are like children and noone talks, we probably see him around week 8.

I think Clowney has more to lose, but either one of them can be the big boy and put his hand out for a talk

Well said & I agree. To answer your question, BoB says that he has only spoken to Clowney a few times..& that was early offseason. People seem to think this is all about BoB being emotional. The last thing we've heard however is that it was Clowney reportedly getting his feelings hurt b/c he "found out" about the rumored trade with Miami....so at the very least both parties are being emo.

Fact is, if both of them sat down, took the emotion out of it, they'd see that each is doing what's in the best interest of their respective parties. It would be foolish of BoB to not sit down & hear offers for him....especially if what the story z-shawn reported is true, that Tunsil is in fact in play & that the only hang up is Miami wants a little more compensation to go ahead & pull the trigger. & Clowney for his part doesn't want to be traded, but he also wants to get what he deems he is worth, b/c whatever the Texans offered him just isn't jiving with him.

 

[Mr teX]

A few reasons:

1.) $20M, or whatever it is. That's a lot of money, even for most NFL players. Turning your nose up at that is just pretty stupid, TBH.
2.) The only way he's going to get the long term deal at the money he wants is to show the Texans and the rest of the league that he can perform at a higher level than what he has. That's not to say he hasn't been a good player - of course he has. But he wants money like he's one of the best two or three edge rushers in all of football and his results to this point haven't borne that out. He has a chance to prove that he can do that. All he has to do is play.
3.) Unless he plans to walk away from the game, accrued NFL service time is something very few players want to forego.

By the way, totalitarianism IS leverage. You can only be totalitarian if you have leverage. Otherwise you get overthrown. I'll also point out that I wish things weren't like this in the NFL. But they are, and Clowney probably ought to recognize.

I don't think it's about him coming back to "prove" anything. He's proven that he's an elite defender. What this is about is just simply him getting what he thinks he's worth. He ain't gonna get that here no matter what he does next season. IMO the only way he does get it is by going to teams with the cap space to take his contract on...which ain't alot to begin with & most of the ones who do have it ain't contenders like he wants and/or have their own guys to resign.

He's stuck..unless he's willing to forgo game checks...which at this point would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Well, sure. So let's say Clowney calls their bluff, so to speak, and does everything in his power. He holds out until Week 8 (or hell, all season). The Texans then either have to continue on with life, all while controlling his rights, or they get to plug in a guy halfway through the season who's fresh and healthy and presumably, has some desire to show he's worth the sort of contract he's asking for. And then? They get to hit replay on this whole scenario and do it again. And then again, if he wants to repeat. Depending on how much he wants to call their bluff, he could be ... what? 29 years old before he plays football again?

THAT is leverage. Sh!tty, but leverage.

If all the Texans cared about was having a motivated Clowney in camp and ready to go they wouldn't be trying to trade him and he'd probably have been there by now.

Clowney wants to choose who he is traded to. That is the leverage of not signing the tender. He loses that leverage by signing it and showing up for work.

And sure the Texans can welcome him after the trade deadline but if that's what they wanted then again, why try to trade him at this point in the first place?

 

[Porky]

He’s in a rookie contract going into his 4th season; played at an elite level last year and you don’t want Tunsil when you have **** at OT. Got it

I don’t get that either. For me, I hold a completely opposite view. For me, it’s Tunsil or we have no deal. Period. Now if we can add Drake in the deal and we sweeten the pot on our side I am down for that too. But Tunsil must be included.

 

[badboy]

It's likely that the tag contract could be amended so that Clowney could restrict potential trading partners for the Texans to only teams he's willing to play for.

No to that.

 

[Porky]

I would like to know if BOB and Clowney have been real men and sat down and had an open and honest conversation to fully understand each other. That is what grown ups do. I see so much thrown about, toxic relationship blah blah. I managed people 30 years, a good sit down and honest conversation can turn toxic into friendship. I have not commented much because we have no facts, does not stop media nor TT board speculation, but my one statement is if the two have not had a face to face honest conversation, this is not going anywhere quick. If they do, I expect Clowney to come in and play on the tag and see where things go. If egos rule, they are like children and noone talks, we probably see him around week 8.

I think Clowney has more to lose, but either one of them can be the big boy and put his hand out for a talk

Good post. I completely agree with you. But can BOB humble himself enough to apologize or at least un-burn the bridge he's attempted to blow up?

From what I've seen as a BOB observer, I see a very stubborn, ego-driven overly proud man who thinks he's always right. Sort of a throw back - my way or the highway type.

That was the norm 30 and 40 years ago. But that approach doesn't generally work anymore regardless of the business. I'm not saying he's got to be everyone's best friend and just fold like a deck of cards, but if he can put his team above his own ego and pride for a hot minute and sits down face to face, I think much can be accomplished.

I just haven't seen that the man has it in him.

 

[badboy]

It's likely that the tag contract could be amended so that Clowney could restrict potential trading partners for the Texans to only teams he's willing to play for.

No to that.

So powda is no GM a step up from the last two...
be careful what you wish for.


What happens when Clowney goes to another team that doesn't have JJ Watt. What's going to happen when the offenses he goes against don't have to account for JJ Watt. Clowney averages less than 1/2 sack per game(in games he plays in) with JJ, how can that go anywhere but down when offenses make him there #1 priority. Let someone else give him the big bucks long term and regret it.

If he goes to either Seattle Philadelphia or Raiders that won't be a problem. Also let's not forget that Crennel puts Watt in the prime position to make a sack every snap; everyone else is number two or three.

 

[zshawn10]

‘Revolt’ brewing in Miami Dolphins locker room if team deals Tunsil, source says

Read more here: https://t.co/p7KYJu15MN

— Adam Beasley (@AdamHBeasley) August 29, 2019

Should Laremy Tunsil be included in a trade for Jadeveon Clowney?

Absolutely not, according to Dolphins players who "would revolt" if the Dolphins ship out one of their best and most-liked players on the eve of the regular season, a well-placed source tells the Miami Herald.

The Tunsil-to-Houston rumor is one that won’t go away, even though the team told his camp recently that the Dolphins are not actively shopping him.

However, if another team blew them away with an offer — like Clowney and premium draft picks — the Dolphins would have to consider it.

Dolphins coach Brian Flores has up until this point done a good job of keeping the locker room together despite an offseason roster purge, a quarterback competition and low expectations for the upcoming season.

But trading Tunsil — whose rights they control for at least the next two seasons — might be a bridge too far for a locker room that wants to compete and also wants the Dolphins to financially take care of their own.

"The backlash would be amazing," the source said. "Guys would legit revolt."

The Texans have been persistent in their pursuit of Tunsil, who is entering his fourth NFL season, but for now the Dolphins have held them off. Instead, the team would prefer to do a player-for-player (or players) swap.

For Tunsil to be included in any deal, the Dolphins would have to be blown away by the draft compensation, which they could use in a trade package to land the best possible quarterback in next year’s draft. The Dolphins are projected to have 12 picks in 2020, and potentially a top-five selection.

Trading Tunsil would almost certainly increase the likelihood that they will draft high in the first round, since the offensive line struggled greatly in games he’s sat out this preseason.

 

[mussop]

I think he can be better too...but

Top 10 in TFL. Not as sexy as sacks, but almost as effective.

As far as the JJ comparison, I wish every player on the team had his drive. That's part of what separates him from everyone else and has made him a hall of famer halfway through his career.

Not going to be a lot of JJ Watt's coming through the NFL, let alone this team.

Top three in the last three years in TFL.

 

[zshawn10]

Former #Redskins DB DeAngelo Hall says he spoke directly with LT Trent Williams and was told: "There's zero chance I'll be in that building next week." Hall and Williams spent eight seasons as teammates in Washington. (via Hail to the Podcast)

— NFL Update (@MySportsUpdate) August 29, 2019

 

[badboy]

It's likely that the tag contract could be amended so that Clowney could restrict potential trading partners for the Texans to only teams he's willing to play for.

No to that.

So powda is no GM a step up from the last two...
be careful what you wish for.


What happens when Clowney goes to another team that doesn't have JJ Watt. What's going to happen when the offenses he goes against don't have to account for JJ Watt. Clowney averages less than 1/2 sack per game(in games he plays in) with JJ, how can that go anywhere but down when offenses make him there #1 priority. Let someone else give him the big bucks long term and regret it.

If he goes to either Seattle Philadelphia or Raiders that won't be a problem. Also let's not forget that Crennel puts Watt in the prime position to make a sack every snap; everyone else is number two or three.

 

[mussop]

Refreshing reading some of the same sentiment from jets fans in the comment section. The guys value isn't as clear cut as some here are just convinced it is. The league's apathy towards bringing him in is speaking volumes to that. It's at least as much about their doubts about signing him long term as it is about what his actual worth is to teams.

Yeah dummy because of the tag and timing and who is to blame for that? Your lover boy BOB. It’s decreased value because they can’t sign him not low value because of talent. If you would pull you little wanker head out of OBs butt you would see that.

 

[badboy]

The Texans did not negotiate with clowney. There is no offer to increase.

It is OBrien who is realizing he can't get an LT under contract for him

Didn't say anything about negotiation. Resolves this, give him a small increase in GTD$ after 2019 and get him on field.

 

[banned1976]

See, this is my issue with the perception out there. That's not leverage. Sure, he can't be traded until he signs the tender, but the Texans don't have to trade him. Hell, it's probably not even in their best interest to trade him. Leverage is when you have control of a player's rights and can give him an ultimatum that says you either sign and play or you waste your career. If he doesn't sign, it doesn't even take up a roster spot. Like I said, there is really zero opportunity cost for the Texans here.

I’m on the Texans side in all this. People will misconstrue this as being on the side of O’Brien but I’m on the side of the other players on defense. I’m also on MY side. I want to see a good product. IMO, those rooting for Clowney to screw over the Texans, if they’re Texans fans they’re only rooting against themselves.

 

[badboy]

Former #Redskins DB DeAngelo Hall says he spoke directly with LT Trent Williams and was told: "There's zero chance I'll be in that building next week." Hall and Williams spent eight seasons as teammates in Washington. (via Hail to the Podcast)

— NFL Update (@MySportsUpdate) August 29, 2019

Is that not a re-post from an earlier comment by Hall?

 

[maverick512000]

Yeah dummy because of the tag and timing and who is to blame for that? Your lover boy BOB. It’s decreased value because they can’t sign him not low value because of talent. If you would pull you little wanker head out of OBs butt you would see that.

What exactly does this add to the conversation? You do realize you just make yourself look stupid with comments like that? It particularly ironic given what your avatar says. Seriously beyond it actually being against site rules, not that it seems to matter given that last time I saw a personal attack being made Cak actually defended it, but it really just shows you can't have an adult conversation and just resort to personal attacks. You, BoB and Trump have a lot in common it seems.

 

[mussop]

He’s in a rookie contract going into his 4th season; played at an elite level last year and you don’t want Tunsil when you have **** at OT. Got it

Listen homer, what was his PFF ranking last year among starting OTs? Did he make the pro bowl last year? He’s not in clowneys class at least not yet. He may get there but right now he’s an above average young talented OT with a high ceiling. No team is game planning their defence around Tunsil. Even your crappy team game planned against clowney. When we played last year they ran away from him almost the whole game. If Tunsil was elite why were they so scared to run at Clowney? Tunsil is a very good pass blocker but needs a lot of work at run blocking. He’s not elite so stick that in your blow hole and swim away.

 

[mussop]

He’s in a rookie contract going into his 4th season; played at an elite level last year and you don’t want Tunsil when you have **** at OT. Got it

Listen homer, what was his PFF ranking last year among starting OTs? Did he make the pro bowl last year? He’s not in clowneys class at least not yet. He may get there but right now he’s an above average young talented OT with a high ceiling. No team is game planning their defence around Tunsil. Even your crappy team game planned against clowney. When we played last year they ran away from him almost the whole game. If Tunsil was elite why were they so scared to run at Clowney? Tunsil is a very good pass blocker but needs a lot of work at run blocking. He’s not elite so stick that in your blow hole and swim away.

 

[mussop]

A few reasons:

1.) $20M, or whatever it is. That's a lot of money, even for most NFL players. Turning your nose up at that is just pretty stupid, TBH.
2.) The only way he's going to get the long term deal at the money he wants is to show the Texans and the rest of the league that he can perform at a higher level than what he has. That's not to say he hasn't been a good player - of course he has. But he wants money like he's one of the best two or three edge rushers in all of football and his results to this point haven't borne that out. He has a chance to prove that he can do that. All he has to do is play.
3.) Unless he plans to walk away from the game, accrued NFL service time is something very few players want to forego.

By the way, totalitarianism IS leverage. You can only be totalitarian if you have leverage. Otherwise you get overthrown. I'll also point out that I wish things weren't like this in the NFL. But they are, and Clowney probably ought to recognize.

#2 lol if he had 1/2 sack more or if Blackson hadn’t fall on top of the QB after clowney already had him down he would of had 10 sacks and that whole dumb argument about him “not being able to have 10 sacks proves he’s not as good as the top tier guys” crap would be gone. He’s n elite defensive player it’s plain to see. I can’t belt so many people don’t want to give him the credit he sway over half a sack. He’s literally top 5 or ten in every other important category there is.

 

[Dejaview]

And that is the multi-million dollar question. Say you're the GM of the Texans, you have a player that has been good but he's not setting records or making QBs tremble in fear at the sight of him. Also he has an injury and surgery history that is the type where he could play anywhere from 5 more years to 5 more minutes. This guy's contract is up and he's ready to get paid. He's wanting to be payed like the best in the league but frankly he's not on the level of the best in the league. On the other hand he is good enough that you won't be able to sell to him that he should be paid average to above average level. You shop around but either no one is interested or the offers are basically they'll trade you a song and dance for him. On top of all this you have both your franchise QB coming off his rookie contract and your franchise, HoF defense player coming off his very team friendly contract.

So what do you do?

If you say "Stop being cheap and pay the man" ok fine so you pay him but he wants guaranteed money because he knows his career is on borrowed time as well. So do you give him the big guaranteed money? Remember your job is to look out for the Texans best interest not one player's best interests. Sometimes those things align but in this case they aren't.

If you say "Trade him and move on." Ok great but who do you trade him with and what do you take for him? He was your 1.1 draft pick and he has been a very good player so you can't sell him for cheap without getting fleeced but likewise no one is making any big or even fair offers.

On top of all this apparently there are some issues between Clowney and his agent and now he has to sign the tag so yeah that's a bit of extra fun added. Dejaview said it best, the guy is a GM nightmare and as much as the arm chair GMs here would like to say otherwise there is no good answer and there was no easy fix to any of this at any point.

Delete

 

[mussop]

A few reasons:

1.) $20M, or whatever it is. That's a lot of money, even for most NFL players. Turning your nose up at that is just pretty stupid, TBH.
2.) The only way he's going to get the long term deal at the money he wants is to show the Texans and the rest of the league that he can perform at a higher level than what he has. That's not to say he hasn't been a good player - of course he has. But he wants money like he's one of the best two or three edge rushers in all of football and his results to this point haven't borne that out. He has a chance to prove that he can do that. All he has to do is play.
3.) Unless he plans to walk away from the game, accrued NFL service time is something very few players want to forego.

By the way, totalitarianism IS leverage. You can only be totalitarian if you have leverage. Otherwise you get overthrown. I'll also point out that I wish things weren't like this in the NFL. But they are, and Clowney probably ought to recognize.

#2 lol if he had 1/2 sack more or if Blackson hadn’t fall on top of the QB after clowney already had him down he would of had 10 sacks and that whole dumb argument about him “not being able to have 10 sacks proves he’s not as good as the top tier guys” crap would be gone. He’s n elite defensive player it’s plain to see. I can’t belt so many people don’t want to give him the credit he sway over half a sack. He’s literally top 5 or ten in every other important category there is.

 

[Dejaview]

And that is the multi-million dollar question. Say you're the GM of the Texans, you have a player that has been good but he's not setting records or making QBs tremble in fear at the sight of him. Also he has an injury and surgery history that is the type where he could play anywhere from 5 more years to 5 more minutes. This guy's contract is up and he's ready to get paid. He's wanting to be payed like the best in the league but frankly he's not on the level of the best in the league. On the other hand he is good enough that you won't be able to sell to him that he should be paid average to above average level. You shop around but either no one is interested or the offers are basically they'll trade you a song and dance for him. On top of all this you have both your franchise QB coming off his rookie contract and your franchise, HoF defense player coming off his very team friendly contract.

So what do you do?

If you say "Stop being cheap and pay the man" ok fine so you pay him but he wants guaranteed money because he knows his career is on borrowed time as well. So do you give him the big guaranteed money? Remember your job is to look out for the Texans best interest not one player's best interests. Sometimes those things align but in this case they aren't.

If you say "Trade him and move on." Ok great but who do you trade him with and what do you take for him? He was your 1.1 draft pick and he has been a very good player so you can't sell him for cheap without getting fleeced but likewise no one is making any big or even fair offers.

On top of all this apparently there are some issues between Clowney and his agent and now he has to sign the tag so yeah that's a bit of extra fun added. Dejaview said it best, the guy is a GM nightmare and as much as the arm chair GMs here would like to say otherwise there is no good answer and there was no easy fix to any of this at any point.

I agree with all but regarding trading him without getting fleeced because he was a 1.1... because of the nature of projects in the O&G business I learned well the term “dead money”. His 1.1 is dead money. Don’t give him away below his value, but if he was that good he’d be long gone by now. Before the haters start hating, he’s a good football player but “ good” is more than his physical skills. He’s not good value from the perspective of his health and contract situation, salary wants, and trade requests that he can’t make himself get out of the way of. So the league is NOT falling over him like a couple here say. We have him at dead money from a trade perspective but the league will have to deal with cap killing dead money if they are wrong.

 

[mussop]

What exactly does this add to the conversation? You do realize you just make yourself look stupid with comments like that? It particularly ironic given what your avatar says. Seriously beyond it actually being against site rules, not that it seems to matter given that last time I saw a personal attack being made Cak actually defended it, but it really just shows you can't have an adult conversation and just resort to personal attacks. You, BoB and Trump have a lot in common it seems.

First off, I wasn’t talking to you so STFU.

Second off, The guy you’re defending tells anyone that disagrees with him they should stick with madden And not doubt his genius. And on top of that he has anger issues so Poking at him is fun it’s Kind of like poking at an enraged blind Chihuahua and watching it go crazy. It’s really entertaining. You should try it.

Third off, don’t know if I would be questioning someone’s adult abilities when im getting offended by an internet post not even directed at me. It just shows you’re not enough of an adult to handle yourself here. And then the irony of replying with insults while complaining about insults. Tisk tisk. You and mr tex have a lot in common.

 

[badboy]

He’s in a rookie contract going into his 4th season; played at an elite level last year and you don’t want Tunsil when you have **** at OT. Got it

People have already responded with facts to your claim he's an elite tackle. You're set in your understanding and that's cool. It appears Tunsil is not being traded so you and I are both greatful.

 

[DEagle7]

At the end if the day I think the Dolphins would be dumb to trade picks or Tunsil given they are in full blown rebuild mode and likely drafting a franchise QB next year. Meanwhile I think the Texans would be dumb to trade a talent like Clowney for RBs and redundant WRs. I dunno I just don't see how this one works it without one side doing something stupid.

 

[Uncle Rico]

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1167116370850582529?s=21

From our @nflnetwork news update: With #Texans pass-rusher Jadeveon Clowney willing to miss games, this much is clear: He's in control of where he plays in 2019.

 

[nut]

BO screwed that whole deal up trying to be the big ruler of all he surveys. He's as bad a GM as he is a coach. Clowney trade FUBAR by BO.

 

[TheKDog]

Classic bill OBrien to fk over someone and make the team worse as a result.

Didn't say anything about negotiation. Resolves this, give him a small increase in GTD$ after 2019 and get him on field.

Agree with that but obrien doesn't want him here

 

[Dejaview]

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1167116370850582529?s=21

If he doesn’t sign a tender he is not in control of where he plays. He doesnt play. If he is willing to go to some team, he’s not in control of that situation. Texans dont have to automatically trade him to that team. Whether he plays there or not depends on the Texans. If he signs a tender to play for the Texans they can trade him anywhere. He’s not in control of where he plays. If he agrees to play for a team that the Texans are willing to trade him to, the Texans control that also.his acquiesce was only preliminary, not final. Where is he in control? Dude’s goose is screwed from calling his shots. Let him set out. He will face the same situation next year. He’s not even in control next year

 

[IDEXAN]

At the end if the day I think the Dolphins would be dumb to trade picks or Tunsil given they are in full blown rebuild mode and likely drafting a franchise QB next year. Meanwhile I think the Texans would be dumb to trade a talent like Clowney for RBs and redundant WRs. I dunno I just don't see how this one works it without one side doing something stupid.

Right and I'm afraid that the Texans "led" by O'Brien are gonna be the dumb-azzs. Based on his actions O'Brien is clearly pretty desperate at this point.
I hope that Clowney stays with the team but my fear is that O'Brien trades him for very little so my expectaions are low and I'm just wacthing with interest to see how this plays out ?
Hopefully Cal McNair and his mother can learn a valuable lesson by the way O'Brien has so mismanaged this whole affair involving Clowney.

 

[Mr teX]

First off, I wasn’t talking to you so STFU.

Second off, The guy you’re defending tells anyone that disagrees with him they should stick with madden And not doubt his genius. And on top of that he has anger issues so Poking at him is fun it’s Kind of like poking at an enraged blind Chihuahua and watching it go crazy. It’s really entertaining. You should try it.

Third off, don’t know if I would be questioning someone’s adult abilities when im getting offended by an internet post not even directed at me. It just shows you’re not enough of an adult to handle yourself here. And then the irony of replying with insults while complaining about insults. Tisk tisk. You and mr tex have a lot in common.

Bro u don’t even know me to claim I have anger issues & Just judging from your posts on this page alone where you’ve attacked 3 people...1 of which is visiting from another team....seems to me u have the anger issues.

3rd, I have plenty of good dialogue here with posters who can actually debate the topic with salient points. You on the other hand, can’t seem to do that & I see that not in just this thread but in MULTIPLE threads.

So all in all, I’ve come to just treat u like your posts say I should. Like a teenage emo little girl.

 

[JWLCASPER]

For what it’s worth this is my run down on the situation. For reference I have worked on two NFL contracts and right now I’m halfway through law school. This is just my opinion and I DO NOT KNOW WHAT JDC IS BEING ADVISED.

Right now the situation is similar to LeVeon Bell's year one of his holdout. The only way JD earns his weekly game check is to report for week 1. Because he is only getting 1 fully guaranteed year, all money is counted as P5(paragraph 5) salary which is his weekly game checks. These checks are delivered to the player weekly or bi-weekly ONLY. Similar to LeVeon (soft tissue injuries and overuse), JDC is likely as worried about his longevity due to his repeat injury history and this being his only potential payday (regardless of the Microfracture surgery success or lack thereof rate, Clowney is red flagged as an injury/high risk asset) , IMO his best course of action is to sit out until the final reporting week midseason to accrue his full year of service.

I believe (no factual support) that he fired his agent because after failing to get numbers in the Mack/Donald range as anticipated, he was poached by other "shark" agents who guaranteed they could garner "his number" on the open market. This exact situation played out with one of the individuals I worked with, luckily he stuck with my old firm through his extension.

One of the main issues in this situation is that it is hard for any coach without a guaranteed future to think pragmatically about 2-3-4 years down the road, instead usually only focusing on the upcoming season and roster shortcomings for that current season. Because Howard (who I am high on as previously posted) was inexplicably moved to guard for sake of flexibility, BOb likely realized that neither of his premium drafted tackles nor his seasoned vet were satisfactory to protect Watson at LT in week 1, and he overreacted and dangled Clowney to Miami and Philadelphia for Tunsil/Dillard. At this point we entered critical mass with Clowney.

BOb was content going into the year without Clowney but not without a LT with Kalil constantly injured and our drafted tackles playing guard. Once Clowney had told his former agent and the Texans that he would report prior to week 1, in his mind he would play out the year for Houston and likely find a new suitor in the offseason with both the cap flexibility and scheme fit that would highlight his strengths and fatten his wallet. Because BOb then continued to make phone calls (openly) unlike a seasoned GM/Contract negotiator using back channels, Clowney caught wind and was irate that after being low-balled in his eyes the Texans then had the audacity to back out of their one year arrangement and trade him to a team or location without his approval. And here we are.

If I had the pleasure to represent Clowney, I would have had him sign the franchise tag (DE pay grade after negotiating with whoever is the lead in the Texans front office) and take out a insurance policy from LofLondon to insure his knee/lower extremities/body to protect against the loss of income in case of a freak accident.

CITE OF EXAMPLES "In 2006, David Beckham insured his legs for $78 million dollars. Cristiano Ronaldo one-upped him by insuring his entire lower body for $153 million ($100 million of which presumably went to those gorgeous glutes, am I right?) Professional sports are a multi-billion dollar industry, so it makes sense for those participating in it (or wanting to participate in it) to insure themselves against an injury that would cost them their ability to cash in on those profits." http://afscollect.com/insuring-athletes-and-their-body-parts/

In this scenario lets assume Teddy Bridgewater's rate applied. $80,000 premium for $10 Million coverage would equate to $640,000 minimum to 1 Million maximum for 80 Million dollars worth of coverage. That is 1/34 to 1/16 of his fully guaranteed '19 salary under the current salary cap. He would get roughly 16 million guaranteed from Houston this year, with a backup plan to guarantee his 75+ million dollar guaranteed pay day.

At this point I believe the Texans and Clowney are at a point of no return. Similar to our very own Duke Johnson firing Kristin Campbell for Drew Rosenhaus to force his way out of Cleveland, Clowney did not change representation to report to Houston. He changed representation to find him a way out of this CLUSTERF.....BOb....VCK. Because there is no "cooler head" in the front office currently looking out for the long term viability of the Texans to check BOb whims, this team is at his mercy and discretion for at least the remainder of this year and the upcoming draft.

Though I admire Bill Belichick, and many people cite him as a Coach/GM, he is GM by title and he does have a lot of say in the Patriots' roster structure, there is a reason he did not let Cesario leave without noise...Belichick delegates much better than BOb and Cesario is vital to taking those responsibilities off of Belichick's plate.

I hope I added to the conversation and I prefer not to sling .... at the wall or other board members and I wanted to bring the conversation back from the insults. I have been following this closely because I am at South Carolina Law School, and this topic has been discussed from both vantage points.

JWL

 

[Uncle Rico]

@JWLCASPER - don’t teams also take out insurance plans on players they may feel are at risk to hedge the investment? For all the talk about medical probabilities the fact that both sides COULD recoup some losses in the case of the unthinkable would seem to make his knee less of a deterrent.

 

[Uncle Rico]

If he doesn’t sign a tender he is not in control of where he plays. He doesnt play. If he is willing to go to some team, he’s not in control of that situation. Texans dont have to automatically trade him to that team. Whether he plays there or not depends on the Texans. If he signs a tender to play for the Texans they can trade him anywhere. He’s not in control of where he plays. If he agrees to play for a team that the Texans are willing to trade him to, the Texans control that also.his acquiesce was only preliminary, not final. Where is he in control? Dude’s goose is screwed from calling his shots. Let him set out. He will face the same situation next year. He’s not even in control next year

This is the unrealistic fan perspective. Why didn’t Pittsburgh just “stick to their guns” and let Bell rot? Optics. Human relations. The management side of the game. You keep treating people like JD and see how great that goes for you. Team had/has a ton of cap space and couldn’t entice anything other than tier 2 FAs. A good GM would have had this thing resolved by now, and a good GM knows when it’s time to cut losses and make sure the team still remains professional and stays appealing to the existing team and future players. You think the locker room is on OBriens side? This is where you say “screw those players too they get paid blah blah blah” If this team comes out flat? Starts losing? All these brainless moves by OBrien backfire and cause a horrible year what then? Year 7 of a rebuild? Smh.

 

[JWLCASPER]

@Uncle Rico

Usually that is seen in the colllege ranks. Guaranteed money/signing bonus/roster bonus/workout bonus/deferred payment are safeguards teams and agents use. That’s why you hear of the initial numbers of a contract first, then the bones of the document are released and the FULL guarantees are highlighted. Partial guarantees don’t hold weight for players.

Good article on this here

https://www.foxbusiness.com/feature...from-insurance-policy-against-contract-report

 

[Dejaview]

This is the unrealistic fan perspective. Why didn’t Pittsburgh just “stick to their guns” and let Bell rot? Optics. Human relations. The management side of the game. You keep treating people like JD and see how great that goes for you. Team had/has a ton of cap space and couldn’t entice anything other than tier 2 FAs. A good GM would have had this thing resolved by now, and a good GM knows when it’s time to cut losses and make sure the team still remains professional and stays appealing to the existing team and future players. You think the locker room is on OBriens side? This is where you say “screw those players too they get paid blah blah blah” If this team comes out flat? Starts losing? All these brainless moves by OBrien backfire and cause a horrible year what then? Year 7 of a rebuild? Smh.

Lol, I just responded to you post in mega bold letters. You base many of your posts on some twitter noise. You say he controls where he plays. I say bs.

 

[gafftop]

At the end if the day I think the Dolphins would be dumb to trade picks or Tunsil given they are in full blown rebuild mode and likely drafting a franchise QB next year. Meanwhile I think the Texans would be dumb to trade a talent like Clowney for RBs and redundant WRs. I dunno I just don't see how this one works it without one side doing something stupid.

Is BOB dumb enough to take Kenny and Kenyan for JD? Before you answer: He was dumb enough to sign off on Brock. He is depending on Will to stay healthy. He liked Mallet as his QB. His best backup at QB is who again? He drafted how many TEs this year? ..............

 

[maverick512000]

First off, I wasn’t talking to you so STFU.

Second off, The guy you’re defending tells anyone that disagrees with him they should stick with madden And not doubt his genius. And on top of that he has anger issues so Poking at him is fun it’s Kind of like poking at an enraged blind Chihuahua and watching it go crazy. It’s really entertaining. You should try it.

Third off, don’t know if I would be questioning someone’s adult abilities when im getting offended by an internet post not even directed at me. It just shows you’re not enough of an adult to handle yourself here. And then the irony of replying with insults while complaining about insults. Tisk tisk. You and mr tex have a lot in common.

I was going to post a long reply and then it struck me that you simply aren’t worth the time and effort to think one out. Though I will say I visit other team forums and it amazes me the stuff people on here can get away with posting.

 

[mussop]

I was going to post a long reply and then it struck me that you simply aren’t worth the time and effort to think one out. Though I will say I visit other team forums and it amazes me the stuff people on here can get away with posting.

Good and if you don’t like it see ya.

 

[Dejaview]

I was going to post a long reply and then it struck me that you simply aren’t worth the time and effort to think one out. Though I will say I visit other team forums and it amazes me the stuff people on here can get away with posting.

I agree and will a step further. I wonder why the Texans and the McNairs would allow such vulgar slander to be represented using their names and team logos, etc.

 

[JB]

I agree and will a step further. I wonder why the Texans and the McNairs would allow such vulgar slander to be represented using their names and team logos, etc.

What makes you think the Texans/McNairs pay any attention to this fan MB? Do they even know it exists?

 

[Uncle Rico]

https://twitter.com/texanscap/status/1167186025149607936?s=21

Houston should offer Clowney a no-trade clause for 2019. Get him back in the building. Try to trade for Trent Williams if still interested. Make up and play nice, talk again in Feb based on how the season goes.

Most sensible thing I’ve heard yet.

 

[Dejaview]

What makes you think the Texans/McNairs pay any attention to this fan MB? Do they even know it exists?

Why ask me. Ask their media director or their media department. Or their legal dept.

 

[zshawn10]

Sources have told @TonyPauline that many believe #Texans head coach Bill O’Brien is in over his head as the general manager of the franchise. https://t.co/0sncxoJttg

— Pro Football Network (@PFN365) August 29, 2019

According to Pauline, in the days leading up to today, people in the league believed that the Texans trading Jadeveon Clowney to the Miami Dolphins was a done deal. But, then something happened. What exactly happened is a matter of speculation.

People have told Pauline that Clowney doesn’t want to play for the Dolphins or any other team in a rebuild mode. Clowney wants to play for a contender. It is believed that Clowney could be a one year rental for the Seattle Seahawks or Philadelphia Eagles versus perhaps a blockbuster trade to the Dolphins.

However, Miami still has a chance. As Pauline reported on PFN yesterday, head coach Bill O’Brien is pushing for a deal with the Dolphins. This is in large part because of his relationship with coach Flores.

According to Pauline, the problem with Clowney is twofold right now. People believe that Clowney is his own worst enemy because he doesn’t practice well and people have complained he practices at 50% which has bothered head coach O’Brien. Furthermore, sources have told Pauline that Clowney doesn’t come across as someone who does the little things well to become a better player.

While this has bothered O’Brien, he has his own critics as some believe that he is in over his head as the general manager of the Texans.

Pauline said that Clowney firing his agent has not helped his goal of getting a long term contract. But, should this have been done sooner? Pauline states that there were rumors at the NFL Combine that Clowney was looking to find new representation.

While Miami is still the front runner for Clowney, there is also a chance that Buffalo could make a push, maybe even the Eagles. However, the problem with Seattle and Philadelphia is that they likely won’t offer numerous draft picks in return, which is the prerequisite for Houston.

 

[Lucky]

https://twitter.com/texanscap/status/1167186025149607936?s=21



Most sensible thing I’ve heard yet.

It's a great idea. Had they thought of it prior to July 15th. Nothing in the CBA that says they can negotiate any contract or offer anything other that the franchise tag tender.