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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

JWLCASPER said:
@Uncle Rico

Usually that is seen in the colllege ranks. Guaranteed money/signing bonus/roster bonus/workout bonus/deferred payment are safeguards teams and agents use. That’s why you hear of the initial numbers of a contract first, then the bones of the document are released and the FULL guarantees are highlighted. Partial guarantees don’t hold weight for players.

Good article on this here

https://www.foxbusiness.com/feature...from-insurance-policy-against-contract-report
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Ok thanks for the clarity. I remember the Rockets back in the Yao/TMac era take out some insurance against injury since they were both so prone, and was just making a blanket assumption it carried over between all sports. More reason for players to be cautious on those one year deals.
 
Lucky said:
It's a great idea. Had they thought of it prior to July 15th. Nothing in the CBA that says they can negotiate any contract or offer anything other that the franchise tag tender.
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According to the owner of that account who seems to be a capologist it is within the scope of a tender.
 
zshawn10 said:
Sources have told @TonyPauline that many believe #Texans head coach Bill O’Brien is in over his head as the general manager of the franchise. https://t.co/0sncxoJttg

— Pro Football Network (@PFN365) August 29, 2019
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Where would they get that idea? Let me show you my shocked face.

230114_908223010.jpg
 
@Lucky - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/28/10-things-to-know-about-the-franchise-tag/

9. Long-term deals can be negotiated, through July 15.

Previously, the window for a team signing its franchise player to a long-term deal closed not long after the free-agency period started and then opened again on July 15. Now, the window remains open until July 15.

After July 15, the franchise player can sign only a one-year deal with his current team. It can be for more than the franchise tender, and it can include other terms, like playing-time or performance triggers that would prevent the tag from being used again.

But the duration can be no more than one year.
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Would seem a NTC would fit within the framework of “other terms”

What say you @JWLCASPER ?
 
Uncle Rico said:
@Lucky - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/28/10-things-to-know-about-the-franchise-tag/



Would seem a NTC would fit within the framework of “other terms”

What say you @JWLCASPER ?
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None of that is in the CBA.

Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year
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Tell Clowney we are giving you Whitney’s role from last year if you return to the team(less sack opportunities, less money) and see how quick he gets to Miami.

Fighting fire with fire is the way to handle this.
 
corry said:
Tell Clowney we are giving you Whitney’s role from last year if you return to the team(less sack opportunities, less money) and see how quick he gets to Miami.

Fighting fire with fire is the way to handle this.
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How far can this be pushed. What if OB told Clowney if he returned, he's also playing on special teams.
Is there anything in the CBA that says a coach can't tell a player when and where to play? If Clowney refuses to do it, do the Texans have to pay him?
 
ColeThornton said:
How far can this be pushed. What if OB told Clowney if he returned, he's also playing on special teams.
Is there anything in the CBA that says a coach can't tell a player when and where to play? If Clowney refuses to do it, do the Texans have to pay him?
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Clowney could play special teams half arse. And his contract is guaranteed. What kind of coach would force this kind of situation. Not even O'Brien is that stupid.
 
Lucky said:
Clowney could play special teams half arse. And his contract is guaranteed. What kind of coach would force this kind of situation. Not even O'Brien is that stupid.
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O'Brien doesn't want him... and are you really underestimating his stupidity? The question was what happens "if" Clowney refuses to do what the coaches tell him to. Maybe someone else knows the answer.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Them wanting to keep their friend and teammate around somehow means Clowney is undesirable around the league?

Like, what?
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Exactly....but it’s still not a good look for Clowney. What this tweet purports to say is that they’d rather keep their friend than get a guy that’s regarded as among the best at doing what he does.
 
ColeThornton said:
O'Brien doesn't want him... and are you really underestimating his stupidity? The question was what happens "if" Clowney refuses to do what the coaches tell him to. Maybe someone else knows the answer.
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If? Clowney could be fined/suspended for insubordination. Happened to a Bengal once. Chad Johnson?
 
Mollywhopper said:
Them wanting to keep their friend and teammate around somehow means Clowney is undesirable around the league?

Like, what?
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That and the fact nobody thinks he’s worth what he and his ex agent thinks he is has FAIL written all over it. Client may still be dealt, but it will be because O’Brien’s dumbass will probably get ripped off since he’s probably desperate and embarrassed now.
 
Mr teX said:
Exactly....but it’s still not a good look for Clowney. What this tweet purports to say is that they’d rather keep their friend than get a guy that’s regarded as among the best at doing what he does.
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I don't think it reflects on Clowney at all. They (generally speaking) probably don't even know him.

They're a ballclub that knows they're not one defensive player away from truly contending. Of course they'd rather keep they're homeboy.
 
Mangler said:
That and the fact nobody thinks he’s worth what he and his ex agent thinks he is has FAIL written all over it. Client may still be dealt, but it will be because O’Brien’s dumbass will probably get ripped off since he’s probably desperate and embarrassed now.
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What he's worth financially isn't whatsoever playing into the minds of the Dolphins lockerroom.
 
Lucky said:
Clowney could play special teams half arse. And his contract is guaranteed. What kind of coach would force this kind of situation. Not even O'Brien is that stupid.
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To alter my favorite line from Scarface.

Dont underestimate the other guys stupidity.
 
Uncle Rico said:
@Lucky - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/28/10-things-to-know-about-the-franchise-tag/



Would seem a NTC would fit within the framework of “other terms”

What say you @JWLCASPER ?
Click to expand...

Exclusive franchise tag: A one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position for the current year, or 120 percent of his previous salary, whichever is greater. The player cannot negotiate with another team. The bump in pay scale (current average salary versus averaging of the previous five years) means only the very best receive this tag -- players for whom teams would gladly give up two first-round picks to sign. Generally, QBs are the most likely to receive an exclusive tag, but the Pittsburgh Steelers used it on running back Le'Veon Bell last year.

CITE: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...se-tag-primer-teams-can-start-tagging-players


Steelers Won’t Adjust Bell’s 2018 Salary
September 8th, 2018 at 2:09pm CST • By Sam Robinson
While the Steelers and Le’Veon Bell are not permitted to discuss a long-term extension until after the regular season concludes, the team would be allowed to increase its star running back’s 2018 payment. However, don’t count on that happening.

The Steelers are not going to set a precedent in this unexplored area by adjusting Bell’s $14.5MM tag price, Aditi Kinkhabwala of NFL.com reports (video link), adding they also will not discuss a trade. A trade would in effect thrust another team into Pittsburgh’s place — renting a running back that appears hellbent on doing his best to make it to the 2019 market without too much additional wear and tear from this season.

CITE: https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/09/steelers-wont-adjust-leveon-bells-franchise-tag-salary
 
JWLCASPER said:
Exclusive franchise tag: A one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position for the current year, or 120 percent of his previous salary, whichever is greater. The player cannot negotiate with another team. The bump in pay scale (current average salary versus averaging of the previous five years) means only the very best receive this tag -- players for whom teams would gladly give up two first-round picks to sign. Generally, QBs are the most likely to receive an exclusive tag, but the Pittsburgh Steelers used it on running back Le'Veon Bell last year.

CITE: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...se-tag-primer-teams-can-start-tagging-players


Steelers Won’t Adjust Bell’s 2018 Salary
September 8th, 2018 at 2:09pm CST • By Sam Robinson
While the Steelers and Le’Veon Bell are not permitted to discuss a long-term extension until after the regular season concludes, the team would be allowed to increase its star running back’s 2018 payment. However, don’t count on that happening.

The Steelers are not going to set a precedent in this unexplored area by adjusting Bell’s $14.5MM tag price, Aditi Kinkhabwala of NFL.com reports (video link), adding they also will not discuss a trade. A trade would in effect thrust another team into Pittsburgh’s place — renting a running back that appears hellbent on doing his best to make it to the 2019 market without too much additional wear and tear from this season.

CITE: https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/09/steelers-wont-adjust-leveon-bells-franchise-tag-salary
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What about no trade clause? Performance bonuses? Could those be negotiated in a one year franchise contract?

And really this is all just speculation on something that could probably bring peace to both sides but highly unlikely I understand that. Just trying to find out if it’s permissible.
 
zshawn10 said:
Sources have told @TonyPauline that many believe #Texans head coach Bill O’Brien is in over his head as the general manager of the franchise. https://t.co/0sncxoJttg

— Pro Football Network (@PFN365) August 29, 2019
Click to expand...

He is in over his head as a playcaller. He was promoted way past his ability when he was doing that and being OC for new England.

So yes, he's in over his head at head coach and GM too.


QB coach is his ceiling and will be his next job unless he goes back to the college ranks.
 
We'll find out what Clowney's with is when he signs his next contract.

It is impossible to tell now with the franchise tag and a dumb GM
 
KA4Texan said:
To alter my favorite line from Scarface.

Dont underestimate the other guys stupidity.
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I agree as I've already said. At this point the riff has become so bad I think O'Brien would rather have him sit out than half ass, pout and be a distraction on the team. Not saying Clowney would do that but he had the opportunity to accept the franchise tag(like so many star players before him), join his team and try to have the best season possible to not only help the team but his future prospects too. We know how that went...
 
Lucky said:
OK, but where does that say it's true in the CBA? He's not a NFL capologist, is he?
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(ii) Exclusive Franchise Tender. The Exclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Salaries in Player Contracts for that League Year as of the end of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period that League Year, as set forth in Article 9, Section 2(e), for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year, or (B) the amount of the Required Tender under Subsection (a)(i) above, whichever is greater.

In law shall means MUST. The team shall pay sets the bar, but doesn’t mean they cannot raise it. Similarly the club can add clauses to the contract that address each sides concerns, namely a NTC. The only restrictions are the player cannot negotiate a contract with another team (Clowney in Miami instead of his Agent was strange) and that the player can only play for his existing club under this one year contract that must meet “CBA Bar” but can definitely exceed it. Teams don’t want to be the “precedent” as reference by Steelers not increasing Bell’s offer past minimum of the “CBA Bar.”

BOb will not be precedent I am sure of that.
 
ColeThornton said:
I agree as I've already said. At this point the riff has become so bad I think O'Brien would rather have him sit out than half ass, pout and be a distraction on the team. Not saying Clowney would do that but he had the opportunity to accept the franchise tag(like so many star players before him), join his team and try to have the best season possible to not only help the team but his future prospects too. We know how that went...
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He wants to accept the franchise tag and play for the Texans but O'Briens plan is to immediately trade him to Miami for a WR. He doesn't want to go to Miami
 
JWLCASPER said:
(ii) Exclusive Franchise Tender. The Exclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Salaries in Player Contracts for that League Year as of the end of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period that League Year, as set forth in Article 9, Section 2(e), for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year, or (B) the amount of the Required Tender under Subsection (a)(i) above, whichever is greater.

In law shall means MUST. The team shall pay sets the bar, but doesn’t mean they cannot raise it. Similarly the club can add clauses to the contract that address each sides concerns, namely a NTC. The only restrictions are the player cannot negotiate a contract with another team (Clowney in Miami instead of his Agent was strange) and that the player can only play for his existing club under this one year contract that must meet “CBA Bar” but can definitely exceed it. Teams don’t want to be the “precedent” as reference by Steelers not increasing Bell’s offer past minimum of the “CBA Bar.”

BOb will not be precedent I am sure of that.
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It’s a damn shame too because a qualified GM may have already explored this. I’m not expecting it to happen due to the management involved, but it is good to know that the remedy is there if sought out. Thanks for the help!
 
TheKDog said:
He wants to accept the franchise tag and play for the Texans but O'Briens plan is to immediately trade him to Miami for a WR. He doesn't want to go to Miami
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If that were true, why didn't he report for training camp. If O'Brien wanted to trade him all along why did they franchise him? Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to trade him if he wasn't franchised?
 
Uncle Rico said:
It’s a damn shame too because a qualified GM may have already explored this. I’m not expecting it to happen due to the management involved, but it is good to know that the remedy is there if sought out. Thanks for the help!
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NFL front offices will not just hand out NTCs. Usually for QB’s only. Even premier edge rushers or Aaron Donald don’t get that benefit. It’s QB’s and then everyone else. Completely different set of rules.

Donald and his group even tried to get cute. It was leverage but they didn’t get the clause he wanted.

“Per a league source, defensive tackle Aaron Donald tried to get a term in his new contract that would have protected him against being leapfrogged as the highest-paid defensive player in football. The Rams, however, refused to do it.”
CITE: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-to-get-protection-against-being-leapfrogged/

NFL teams hate being the first to do it. It’s why the league was shook when Cousins deal was fully guaranteed. Vikings broke the code of the shield.
 
ColeThornton said:
If that were true, why didn't he report for training camp. If O'Brien wanted to trade him all along why did they franchise him? Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to trade him if he wasn't franchised?
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He didn't report after he found out about the trade to Miami

On your franchise question, to do that they would have had to trade him last year, the last year of his rookie deal, like Mack was.

But this plan to trade him for an LT was hatched after O'Brien drafted Tytus and decided he was a guard.

It was a halfassed dumbass plan just like sending a chaplain to spy and tamper with caserio was
 
TheKDog said:
They are speaking in terms of what they'll offer a franchise tagged player they can't extend until next year and aren't even sure he wants to be there
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Clowney screwed himself from the jump & the fact that he's in this situation right now is SOLELY & COMPLETELY HIS FAULT. If he truly felt all of what ya'll are talking about & if he felt that he was worth Donald & Mack money, he should've started his holdout last year....like his counterpart Kalil Mack did who refused to play under the last year of his rookie deal. He let it get to this point by not doing that.

2nd way he screwed himself is b/c he's now painted himself in a corner where the only real leverage he has left could possibly mean that he misses game checks.

3rd way he screwed himself is by changing representation when he did. He should've looked into that at the very least around the same time the Texans offered him whatever they did.
 
TheKDog said:
He wants to accept the franchise tag and play for the Texans but O'Briens plan is to immediately trade him to Miami for a WR. He doesn't want to go to Miami
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Even though I don’t believe O’Brien’s dumbass wants to trade Cloweny for a WR, I’m not putting past him. I’m expecting the absolute worse from that idiot.
 
Mr teX said:
Clowney screwed himself from the jump & the fact that he's in this situation right now is SOLELY & COMPLETELY HIS FAULT. If he truly felt all of what ya'll are talking about & if he felt that he was worth Donald & Mack money, he should've started his holdout last year....like his counterpart Kalil Mack did who refused to play under the last year of his rookie deal. He let it get to this point by not doing that.

2nd way he screwed himself is b/c he's now painted himself in a corner where the only real leverage he has left could possibly mean that he misses game checks.

3rd way he screwed himself is by changing representation when he did. He should've looked into that at the very least around the same time the Texans offered him whatever they did.
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I never said he's worth Donald and Mack money. But he's worth a lot

Wait you're saying now that clowney should have held out last year? Lol yeah im sure you'd have supported that
 
Mangler said:
Even though I don’t believe O’Brien’s dumbass wants to trade Cloweny for a WR, I’m not putting past him. I’m expecting the absolute worse from that idiot.
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It was from lombardi. Might have changed with the Miller injury and now they want an rb perhaps. And Miami will throw in a third round pick so we can draft another rankin or jaelen strong
 
TheKDog said:
He didn't report after he found out about the trade to Miami

On your franchise question, to do that they would have had to trade him last year, the last year of his rookie deal, like Mack was.

But this plan to trade him for an LT was hatched after O'Brien drafted Tytus and decided he was a guard.

It was a halfassed dumbass plan just like sending a chaplain to spy and tamper with caserio was
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How do you know Miami, Sea or any of these other teams didn't reach out to us about him? In this regard, BoB would be foolish NOT to listen to offers for him. Like i've hypothesized on here before, If BoB is so dumb and in over his head like ya'll claim, wouldn't it line up with ya'lls narrative that teams would reach out & try to pull the wool over the idiot BoB's head?
 
Mr teX said:
How do you know Miami, Sea or any of these other teams didn't reach out to us about him? In this regard, BoB would be foolish NOT to listen to offers for him. Like i've hypothesized on here before, If BoB is so dumb and in over his head like ya'll claim, wouldn't it line up with ya'lls narrative that teams would reach out & try to pull the wool over the idiot BoB's head?
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There is nothing wrong with listening. It's dumb to wait after the deadline though because it drops his value
 
TheKDog said:
I never said he's worth Donald and Mack money. But he's worth a lot

Wait you're saying now that clowney should have held out last year? Lol yeah im sure you'd have supported that
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No, I'm saying he & his agent put himself in this situation by not doing what Mack did. That's honestly when Clowney should've fired his agent right there..Huge mistake.

What does my support have to do with it? I'm all for the young man getting his chips....but I'm more for the org doing what's best for us too. This whole notion that BoB is somehow doing him dirty....That the situation is a clusterfuck solely b/c BoB didn't trade him when most feel he should've........that BoB is wrong for listening to offers for him....No.

Clowney made some serious missteps that at the present moment might cost him a mil a week if he's determined to see this through.
 
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