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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Lucky said:
When Clowney signs the franchise tender, his contract can be transferred to another club (prior to the trade deadline). But the stipulations remain.

Clowney could sign an offer sheet from another club. And the Texans could match it, or accept 2 1st round picks from that team in compensation. Do you think that's happening? It hasn't happened yet. That's the only way Clowney can get a multiyear deal this year.
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I think they can negotiate those 2 first round picks down. But yes that's the big obstacle. Texans will probably want at least one first rounder and that makes acquiring clowney more expensive than just giving the extension when he hits free agency
 
TheKDog said:
I think they can negotiate those 2 first round picks down.
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They could have. But, that would have required Clowney signing the tender prior to July 15th and the Texans trading Clowney to that team with a negotiated compensation other than the 2 1sts. That's why the July 15th was so important.
 
Lucky said:
When Clowney signs the franchise tender, his contract can be transferred to another club (prior to the trade deadline). But the stipulations remain.

Clowney could sign an offer sheet from another club. And the Texans could match it, or accept 2 1st round picks from that team in compensation. Do you think that's happening? It hasn't happened yet. That's the only way Clowney can get a multiyear deal this year.
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The multiyear deal with other teams this year possibility is how I read the rules as well but I've only seen it reported that he would be a 1 year rental w/ a trade partner and then they would have to try to negotiate a long term deal next off-season.
 
Max said:
The multiyear deal with other teams this year possibility is how I read the rules as well but I've only seen it reported that he would be a 1 year rental w/ a trade partner and then they would have to try to negotiate a long term deal next off-season.
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It's been assumed that Clowney would not get an offer sheet from another team. And he hasn't, due to the compensation for 2 1sts. Had Mack or Donald ever made it to a non-exclusive franchise tag, they would have gotten an offer sheet. Two firsts for those guys would be a good deal, especially for a contending team.
 
Lucky said:
It's been assumed that Clowney would not get an offer sheet from another team. And he hasn't, due to the compensation for 2 1sts. Had Mack or Donald ever made it to a non-exclusive franchise tag, they would have gotten an offer sheet. Two firsts for those guys would be a good deal, especially for a contending team.
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I thought Miami had offered him something and negotiated the picks down but clowney didn't accept the deal
 
Lucky said:
It's been assumed that Clowney would not get an offer sheet from another team. And he hasn't, due to the compensation for 2 1sts. Had Mack or Donald ever made it to a non-exclusive franchise tag, they would have gotten an offer sheet. Two firsts for those guys would be a good deal, especially for a contending team.
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Hmmm. So your take is that next off-season, we can accept less than two firsts if we trade him prior to July 15, but this year we're locked into other teams having to give us 2 1sts because we're past July 15?
 
Max said:
Hmmm. So your take is that next off-season, we can accept less than two firsts if we trade him prior to July 15, but this year we're locked into other teams having to give us 2 1sts because we're past July 15?
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If another team signs Clowney to an offer sheet, they are on the hook for 2 1sts as compensation.
If Clowney signs a tender with the Texans prior to July 15th, they can trade that contract to another team for any agreed to compensation, and that team has until July 15th to extend the contract.
If Clowney signs the tender after July 15th (the current situation), Clowney's contract cannot be extended by any team until the season is over.
 
Lucky said:
If another team signs Clowney to an offer sheet, they are on the hook for 2 1sts as compensation.
If Clowney signs a tender with the Texans prior to July 15th, they can trade that contract to another team for any agreed to compensation, and that team has until July 15th to extend the contract.
If Clowney signs the tender after July 15th (the current situation), Clowney's contract cannot be extended by any team until the season is over.
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Also, Texans can agree to less than two firsts if he signs an offer sheet
 
Lucky said:
If another team signs Clowney to an offer sheet, they are on the hook for 2 1sts as compensation.
If Clowney signs a tender with the Texans prior to July 15th, they can trade that contract to another team for any agreed to compensation, and that team has until July 15th to extend the contract.
If Clowney signs the tender after July 15th (the current situation), Clowney's contract cannot be extended by any team until the season is over.
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Not doubting this,

How did Mack get traded just before the season started and sign an extension. I'm not familiar with the rules or when Mack signed his extension.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not doubting this,

How did Mack get traded just before the season started and sign an extension. I'm not familiar with the rules or when Mack signed his extension.
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Mack wasn't on the tag. He was on the last year of his rookie deal and was holding out.

They traded him for two firsts, a third and a sixth, but they also sent a second round pick with Mack.

So on net even mack wasn't traded for two firsts. It's an extremely high price.
 
Lucky said:
Can you show me where in the CBA it says this? And why would the Texans accept less if the offer sheet is signed?
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A franchise-tagged player can be traded and teams can work out any compensation they like; they can deviate from the two first-round draft picks that a franchise-tagged player's new team must give to his previous team if the player is signed to an offer sheet not matched by his previous team.Feb 20, 2018

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjADegQIDhAL&usg=AOvVaw3m51X9vNjmhjzBPTcC63av

So a team would not send the offer sheet unless the Texans agree to a lesser compensation
 
TheKDog said:
A franchise-tagged player can be traded and teams can work out any compensation they like; they can deviate from the two first-round draft picks that a franchise-tagged player's new team must give to his previous team if the player is signed to an offer sheet not matched by his previous team.Feb 20, 2018
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Traded. That's how it deviates. Not refusing to match an offer sheet and accepting compensation. If the tagged player signs the franchise tag tender, he can be traded. But if after July 15th, that contract cannot be extended. I know it's complicated. It exists to put pressure on both sides to keep this from spilling over into training camp and the regular season. All of the things you listed could have happened prior to July 15th. Look back through the history of franchise tags and you will see that.
 
TheKDog said:
That seems to say only the Texans can't sign him to a multi year.
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TheKDog said:
"
The designated franchise player will have his one-year salary guaranteed if he elects to play for the team that designated him with the franchise tag and if he does not negotiate a contract with another team.

"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag
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Max said:
It does. But literally everyone is reporting that he can't be extended by other teams as well as the Texans past July 15. The CBA language and language cited here is apparently like the tax code where it is poorly written but there is a general consensus of what it means because of past rulings on interpretation.
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Everyone but me. I think part of the problem is in the section that lucky quoted as K-dog points out. It clearly states Texans cannot negotiate until after season. In his second post, the link agrees with my position. Easiest way to explain it for me is a team contacts Houston and agree on offer. Texans can negotiate down from the two first-round picks. The purchasing team can then offer Clowney agent a deal. The reason the buyer has to approach Houston before the player is due to the exclusivity tag. IOW, Texans must allow a team to negotiate with player. Once Houston has agreed to compensation & Clowney agrees to offer JD then signs with Houston who completes trade. Everybody happy.


I see nothing in the CBA saying the buying team is forced to accept the tag amount for 2019. However, if it does why wouldn't Clowney play for 16 million 2019 if he has an agreement for a long-term deal? As preseason progresses and player attrition occurs, Clowney's value increases. If Clellin Ferrel goes out, I would expect a call from Raiders.
 
badboy said:
The purchasing team can then offer Clowney agent a deal. The reason the buyer has to approach Houston before the player is due to the exclusivity tag. IOW, Texans must allow a team to negotiate with player. Once Houston has agreed to compensation & Clowney agrees to offer JD then signs with Houston who completes trade. Everybody happy.
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Have you heard of any team negotiating with Clowney?

Have you even heard of any leaks about a team potentially, maybe being interested in talking to Clowney's agent to gauge what he might accept?

Think about that for a second.
 
badboy said:
Everyone but me. I think part of the problem is in the section that lucky quoted as K-dog points out. It clearly states Texans cannot negotiate until after season. In his second post, the link agrees with my position. Easiest way to explain it for me is a team contacts Houston and agree on offer. Texans can negotiate down from the two first-round picks. The purchasing team can then offer Clowney agent a deal. The reason the buyer has to approach Houston before the player is due to the exclusivity tag. IOW, Texans must allow a team to negotiate with player. Once Houston has agreed to compensation & Clowney agrees to offer JD then signs with Houston who completes trade. Everybody happy.


I see nothing in the CBA saying the buying team is forced to accept the tag amount for 2019. However, if it does why wouldn't Clowney play for 16 million 2019 if he has an agreement for a long-term deal? As preseason progresses and player attrition occurs, Clowney's value increases. If Clellin Ferrel goes out, I would expect a call from Raiders.
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(k) Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year.
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https://www.thefootballeducator.com/nfl-cba-article-10-franchise-transition-players/

This is the way it was explained to me. After July 15, Clowney could only sign a one-year deal with us. No other teams can enter negotiations with Clowneys representation, and we cant extend him until after the season. If we were to trade him, his one-year contract transfers to the trading team, and THAT team is now bound by the "no negotiation clause" until the end of the season.

To be traded, Clowney must sign his tender, so he holds quite a bit of leverage in trade talks.
 
frethack said:
https://www.thefootballeducator.com/nfl-cba-article-10-franchise-transition-players/

This is the way it was explained to me. After July 15, Clowney could only sign a one-year deal with us. No other teams can enter negotiations with Clowneys representation, and we cant extend him until after the season. If we were to trade him, his one-year contract transfers to the trading team, and THAT team is now bound by the "no negotiation clause" until the end of the season.

To be traded, Clowney must sign his tender, so he holds quite a bit of leverage in trade talks.
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I think your first paragraph pretty much sums it from what the more knowlegeable folks on the Board have been saying.
And for Clowney to play and get paid in 2019 he must sign the tender otherwise he's not playing ball in the NFL in 2019 and not receiving any comp from any NFL team in '19.
Has anybody heard any reports from Clowney or his agent or any other source about him sitting out 2019 ?
 
IDEXAN said:
I think your first paragraph pretty much sums it from what the more knowlegeable folks on the Board have been saying.
And for Clowney to play and get paid in 2019 he must sign the tender otherwise he's not playing ball in the NFL in 2019 and not receiving any comp from any NFL team in '19.
Has anybody heard any reports from Clowney or his agent or any other source about him sitting out 2019 ?
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I doubt that happens. It's definitely a possibility, but that's why everyone keeps talking about the Week 10 deadline in regards to Clowney signing the franchise tender. If he doesn't sign by then, he can't sign it. Although this means he doesn't accrue a year of service time and he's in the same boat as before. The Texans would still hold his player rights and they would/could just franchise tag him again.

Edit: This is what L. Bell did. He was only free to negotiate as a FA because Pittsburgh released him. Pittsburgh still held his rights for the team until they chose to release him.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Settles it. Barry Jackson said Glazer said 10 teams don't want Clowney. Clowney seems to have little leverage.[/
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badboy said:
Everyone but me. I think part of the problem is in the section that lucky quoted as K-dog points out. It clearly states Texans cannot negotiate until after season. In his second post, the link agrees with my position. Easiest way to explain it for me is a team contacts Houston and agree on offer. Texans can negotiate down from the two first-round picks. The purchasing team can then offer Clowney agent a deal. The reason the buyer has to approach Houston before the player is due to the exclusivity tag. IOW, Texans must allow a team to negotiate with player. Once Houston has agreed to compensation & Clowney agrees to offer JD then signs with Houston who completes trade. Everybody happy.


I see nothing in the CBA saying the buying team is forced to accept the tag amount for 2019. However, if it does why wouldn't Clowney play for 16 million 2019 if he has an agreement for a long-term deal? As preseason progresses and player attrition occurs, Clowney's value increases. If Clellin Ferrel goes out, I would expect a call from Raiders.
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Gruden isn't trading for Clowney when Clowney turned down 75 mil guaranteed.
 
IDEXAN said:
Has anybody heard any reports from Clowney or his agent or any other source about him sitting out 2019 ?
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A few months ago Cecil Shorts (who seems to have some kind of connection with Clowney) said that it was a possibility.

But lately he said that he believes he'll be there for weeks one, but also said he's curious to see how it works out because there is bad blood between Clowney and the "Texans"...

I put Texans in quotation marks because I think the bad blood is between him and OB.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Have you heard of any team negotiating with Clowney?

Have you even heard of any leaks about a team potentially, maybe being interested in talking to Clowney's agent to gauge what he might accept?

Think about that for a second.
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1st I would hope not to hear of any as that could blow or skewer the negotiations. 2nd as I stated the team would have to bring compensation that Houston would accept in order to get permission to talk to agent due to the exclusive tag. 3rd the Miami "leak" and the post saying Texans had talked to ten teams :

https://nfltraderumors.co/texans-ha...luding-dolphins-about-jadeveon-clowney-trade/
https://www.totalprosports.com/2019...ken-to-10-teams-about-jadeveon-clowney-trade/
 
steelbtexan said:
Gruden isn't trading for Clowney when Clowney turned down 75 mil guaranteed.
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If you are talking about Miami (?) why would he play there if he could get similar $ from a team like Oakland that has a solid QB and Oline? SImply because JD turned down $75 and I've seen nothing to confirm does not mean he will turn it or even less from a tem where he likes the situation better. Did you see Miami's QBs Thurs? horrible.
 
badboy said:
1st I would hope not to hear of any as that could blow or skewer the negotiations. 2nd as I stated the team would have to bring compensation that Houston would accept in order to get permission to talk to agent due to the exclusive tag. 3rd the Miami "leak" and the post saying Texans had talked to ten teams :

https://nfltraderumors.co/texans-ha...luding-dolphins-about-jadeveon-clowney-trade/
https://www.totalprosports.com/2019...ken-to-10-teams-about-jadeveon-clowney-trade/
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We're missing each other here.

I'm talking about teams talking directly to Clowney or his agent.

Cant happen.

Texans can discuss trades. They are probably assuming he will sign his tender at some point.

Just look at the leveon bell situation last season as a reference.

You dont think Pittsburgh would've taken anything they could for Leveon?

Here is a link from last season talking about the complexities of trading him:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ld-trade-leveon-bell-but-it-wont-be-easy/amp/
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
We're missing each other here.

I'm talking about teams talking directly to Clowney or his agent.

Cant happen.

Texans can discuss trades. They are probably assuming he will sign his tender at some point.

Just look at the leveon bell situation last season as a reference.

You dont think Pittsburgh would've taken anything they could for Leveon?

Here is a link from last season talking about the complexities of trading him:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ld-trade-leveon-bell-but-it-wont-be-easy/amp/
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I was responding to your ask despite both of us knowing teams cannot negotiate unless Texans okay. Also Bell had been tagged two years sitting out final one. Steelers chose not to transition him
 
badboy said:
I was responding to your ask despite both of us knowing teams cannot negotiate unless Texans okay. Also Bell had been tagged two years sitting out final one. Steelers chose not to transition him
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Tagged two years isnt relevant to the point that he couldn't be traded because he wasn't under contract.

Also he couldn't negotiate any deal until free agency when he signed with the jets.

If I didnt know you better id feel like I was being trolled tbh.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Tagged two years isnt relevant to the point that he couldn't be traded because he wasn't under contract.

Also he couldn't negotiate any deal until free agency when he signed with the jets.

If I didnt know you better id feel like I was being trolled tbh.
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You are correct I totally missed the not able to trade part. I never will troll anyone. Headed for pool to allow fingers and brain to relax.
 
badboy said:
If you are talking about Miami (?) why would he play there if he could get similar $ from a team like Oakland that has a solid QB and Oline? SImply because JD turned down $75 and I've seen nothing to confirm does not mean he will turn it or even less from a tem where he likes the situation better. Did you see Miami's QBs Thurs? horrible.
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Maybe but I think part of it also is Clowney wants to be the number one guy on defense and he will never be that on a team with Watt. In Miami they are in full rebuild mode so he would go there and be the high profile vet that they build a defense around. Doesn’t hurt that it’s also Miami the city with all that means.
 
So long JD .. May the sun be at your back, and the wind be in your face. Here’s rooting for you kid!

tenor.gif
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
A few months ago Cecil Shorts (who seems to have some kind of connection with Clowney) said that it was a possibility.

But lately he said that he believes he'll be there for weeks one, but also said he's curious to see how it works out because there is bad blood between Clowney and the "Texans"...

I put Texans in quotation marks because I think the bad blood is between him and OB.
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Tried telling people this months ago as well. Him and his agent discussed sitting out. He worked his ass off to get back to the team thought he had proven himself to team and coach. Feels disrespected by team but mostly by OB. Isn’t happy with the way negotiations went down. Feels OB is the reason. He’s kept everything quit and professional and Was going to return for week one but after the what has happened behind closed doors recently by OB has turned things sour. His agent has told the team sitting out is an option to force a trade. OB has Handled this horribly.
 
gafftop said:
The Texans always are two steps behind. JD should have been traded before draft. May be reason Gaines is no longer here. At this point there is no winning option.
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We can let him play on the tag this season, then tag him again next season.
 
gafftop said:
The Texans always are two steps behind. JD should have been traded before draft.May be reason Gaines is no longer here. At this point there is no winning option.
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No see BG was dumped in early June, more than month before the mid-July deadline that offered the best opportunity to trade Clowney.
 
beerlover said:
It’s just business
Godfather_ver1.jpg
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I kinda had wished JD would have accepted the deal to go sleep with the fishes in Miami. Tunsil would have been a get. but yeah it is business, so the team and fans shouldnt get mad, when the player gets mad. He wants whats best for him, team and fans want whats best for them, and hardly a common ground, and then team does stupid things that makes player more annoyed and then you have to trade said player for peanuts.
 
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