The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

[thunderkyss]

Let's just smoke another bowl

Got some smoke through a keyhole for you.

 

[powda]

This is the very situation why you should not have a GM/HC. And don't talk to me about HOFers like Walsh and Belichick. They're from another universe.

A GM could tell a pissed off HC that he's not trading a Pro Bowl player over a dispute with the coach. It's not in the short or long term interest of the franchise. Suck it up coach. Suck it up player. Get the F back to work.

But when Bill O'Brien the coach tells Bill O'Brien the GM that he wants Clowney gone, the GM says, "You got it coach." No one there is looking after anyone but what the coach wants. Same thing if the coach loves the player. The GM overpays the player to keep him and the coach happy. This doesn't work. It will not work. Nothing good can come of it.

OB has averted termination and ousted two gms. You want him gone? This is the short rope. This is the road. Maybe he's great and this is his chance to prove it. Likely he isn't and this year the crosshairs rest on him. Is it dysfunctional as ****? Yes.

A year short of the AFC championship game leaves him nowhere to hide. I am rooting for him and the team to win. If they dont, Cal is all out of excuses.

Until then all we as fans can do is watch, *****, and reek.

 

[badboy]

If JD was about a SB ring he would remain here and eat up 3 years of tags with about $60 million. I think Texans would actually guarantee that and add a small signing bonus say 12 million. $72 m for three seasons at 24 each and will not turn 29 until the following February leaving him still young for another deal if as healthy as he seems to think he is.. No way will OBrien trade him to NE or Indy.

I want to deal CLowney to Raiders but here is another realistic trade.

Washington #6 (projected) and Houston #25 (my projected with Williams) swap firsts 2020.
Washington gets Clowney and now has #25.
Houston gets LT Trent Williams and center Ross Pierschbacher (2019 5th round)= D.Brown to Seattle and now has #6.

Both players get huge increases. Both in prime but JD entering and TWilliam on peak. So advantage Washington which is addressed with swap of firsts. Both have injury histories and while JD is more severe he has missed 6 games for last four years and only 3 in last three years. Advantage tied [again considering age). Both play very important positions and LT is more important than pass rusher over all yet JD's role in Washington will be greater than it is on Texan (tied). He will be the man rather than #2 after you know who.

maybe after games this weekend we will see trade talks really heat up. Week after regular game 1 is my prime trade time.

 

[amazing80]

Clowney, we miss you. Please come back this week.

 

[steelbtexan]

This is the very situation why you should not have a GM/HC. And don't talk to me about HOFers like Walsh and Belichick. They're from another universe.

A GM could tell a pissed off HC that he's not trading a Pro Bowl player over a dispute with the coach. It's not in the short or long term interest of the franchise. Suck it up coach. Suck it up player. Get the F back to work.

But when Bill O'Brien the coach tells Bill O'Brien the GM that he wants Clowney gone, the GM says, "You got it coach." No one there is looking after anyone but what the coach wants. Same thing if the coach loves the player. The GM overpays the player to keep him and the coach happy. This doesn't work. It will not work. Nothing good can come of it.

Agreed, but when they had a GM in almost this situation the GM traded DB.

Paying players comes from the top.

 

[steelbtexan]

OB has averted termination and ousted two gms. You want him gone? This is the short rope. This is the road. Maybe he's great and this is his chance to prove it. Likely he isn't and this year the crosshairs rest on him. Is it dysfunctional as ****? Yes.

A year short of the AFC championship game leaves him nowhere to hide. I am rooting for him and the team to win. If they dont, Cal is all out of excuses.

Until then all we as fans can do is watch, *****, and reek.

This is yr 2 of a 3 yr rebuild.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Getting rid of Keenum wouldn't have been so bad if he didn't replace him with 3 dudes who were worse

.....and took the Vikings to the NFC Championship Game in 2017. OB really knows how to pick'em. This will be the season where Texans fans will know if OB has made Watson better or coached him into regression.

 

[sandman]

.....and took the Vikings to the NFC Championship Game in 2017. OB really knows how to pick'em. This will be the season where Texans fans will know if OB has made Watson better or coached him into regression.

OB pulled Keenum out of a tree stand after every QB on the roster got hurt. Those two games got him another shot in the league to be a placeholder for Goff, then was actively replaced by Cousins and Flacco. The only reason he is slated as the starter in Washington is because Smith and McCoy are both recovering from broken legs. He is the new Fitzpatrick. He has had the chance to be (and keep) the starting HQ on five teams now.

 

[Lucky]

Agreed, but when they had a GM in almost this situation the GM traded DB.

Paying players comes from the top.

That's apples and oranges. Brown should have been extended. Bob McNair had a problem with Brown. We all know why.

Clowney should or should not be extended, based upon the $$$ asked for. But, the real reason Clowney hasn't been extended is that O'Brien has a problem with him. No one is certain as to why.

Have there been problems at the top? Um, yes. Has it been about $$$? Not always, but not necessarily never. Dysfunction is often complicated.

 

[steelbtexan]

That's apples and oranges. Brown should have been extended. Bob McNair had a problem with Brown. We all know why.

Clowney should or should not be extended, based upon the $$$ asked for. But, the real reason Clowney hasn't been extended is that O'Brien has a problem with him. No one is certain as to why.

Have there been problems at the top? Um, yes. Has it been about $$$? Not always, but not necessarily never. Dysfunction is often complicated.

I heard they offered Clowney 75 mil guaranteed. With his knee (Which combined with needing to reup Watson/Watt) that's more than I would've offered him. I can see why the Texans org moved on.

I guess I trust CnD's evals more than most around these parts.

 

[Lucky]

I heard they offered Clowney 75 mil guaranteed.

Which could be complete BS. In fact, I call BS on that. I appreciate CnD's info as much as any fan here. But there's been nothing from any source that the Texans have concerns about Clowney's knee. The issue has been his relationship with O'Brien.

There has been ample opportunity to deal Clowney. The organization didn't indicate a willingness to do so this spring, based upon not bringing in or drafting a replacement. Something has changed from this spring to now. And no one is saying what that might be. We've heard O'Brien wants Clowney gone, but JD holds all the cards. It's a ridiculous situation, to be sure. Money is always involved when it comes to pro sports. But, it's not the entire equation.

 

[steelbtexan]

Which could be complete BS. In fact, I call BS on that. I appreciate CnD's info as much as any fan here. But there's been nothing from any source that the Texans have concerns about Clowney's knee. The issue has been his relationship with O'Brien.

There has been ample opportunity to deal Clowney. The organization didn't indicate a willingness to do so this spring, based upon not bringing in or drafting a replacement. Something has changed from this spring to now. And no one is saying what that might be. We've heard O'Brien wants Clowney gone, but JD holds all the cards. It's a ridiculous situation, to be sure. Money is always involved when it comes to pro sports. But, it's not the entire equation.

Agree to disagree, I trust CnD's opinion on Clowney's knee not only more than yours but also the Texans medical staff. CnD has done many microfracture surgeries and knows the most likely outcomes. (Yes, there are outliers) Clowney being tagged has always been the most likely outcome from the beginning. What changed from when Clowney was 1st offered a contract from the Texans org? Money, in typical Texans fashion they offered below market value and Clowney's camp turned it down and agreed to play this yr on the tag. I really dont blame the Texans org for their stance on this. Nor do I blame Clowney and his camp.

 

[sandman]

Which could be complete BS. In fact, I call BS on that. I appreciate CnD's info as much as any fan here. But there's been nothing from any source that the Texans have concerns about Clowney's knee. The issue has been his relationship with O'Brien.

There has been ample opportunity to deal Clowney. The organization didn't indicate a willingness to do so this spring, based upon not bringing in or drafting a replacement. Something has changed from this spring to now. And no one is saying what that might be. We've heard O'Brien wants Clowney gone, but JD holds all the cards. It's a ridiculous situation, to be sure. Money is always involved when it comes to pro sports. But, it's not the entire equation.

Where did we hear that OB wants Clowney gone? There are verified quotes from OB out there that he wants Clowney on the team. Sounds like we are interpreting the situation to fit a narrative, much like the Gaine firing.

 

[zshawn10]

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...ns-trade-Jadeveon-Clowney-or-not-14308363.php

Wilson on Kalil: What we're getting from Matt is inconsistent. It's not just his health, it's his play. It's rust. He didn't play last year. He wears a sleeve, got his foot stepped on, he gets dinged easily. They have to give him days off. He's 30 years old, got a lot of wear & tear on his body.

Yesterday we saw him get bull rushed into Deshaun Watson, have a false start and I saw some good moments. My opinion on him is this lowest common denominator. Is he better than Julie'n Davenport? Yes, resounding yes. Do they have a better option on this roster other than shelving the Tytus Howard guard experiment and getting him ready to play? I advocate that move. I would shut it down with Kalil, maybe have him not even make the team and make Tytus Howard the starting LT. You have little time to do this which lends me to think they'll go with the path of least resistance. Kalil at least against the Saints - if healthy - but at some point they'll have to pull the trigger and get Howard ready. I would put him out there & let him learn on the job. It's not ideal but you can't have Kalil out there being inconsistent & getting dinged all the time. I hear the right things from him but I don't know. What we actually see & what he says are two different things. I'm in favor of moving on.

McClain: If they move Howard to tackle, that means they royally screwed up putting him at guard. It's way too late. They should have had him at left tackle all the time. That's why I think they will trade Clowney for a left tackle. I have no idea who that will be. You won't get what he's worth at this time. The other team can't sign him so the other team may be in the same position as the Texans. [...] It's just a bad time to trade him unless you can get a left tackle.

Wilson: One more thing on Clowney, what he wants and what the market would dictate or if the Texans - which are not open to doing an extension right now and didn't negotiate with him this offseason - there's a huge disconnect. He wants to be paid like Mack & Donald. He doesn't play in their category in terms of production or consistency or anything as a pass rusher. Run stopping, you can say he tries to get close to their level. He is elite at stopping the run but he's never been a great pass rusher. If you're Bus Cook, it's a hard argument to fight & Chris Olsen would shut that down.

On the open market, I think the contract for him would be similar to Frank Clark & DeMarcus Lawrence and even those guys are better pass rushers. I think he'll have a great year but it will never be Mack/Donald until he gets 15-20 sacks, which he's not going to.

Budget wise, they saved all that money for Deshaun Watson (McClain: Maybe JJ Watt). How are you gonna have $200M pass rushers on your payroll? I think it all leads to what they should do & would be wise to do: let him play for you this year & treat this as his last year & if you want to be insincere & tag him with no intention of keeping him, do that. Don't just get a 3rd round comp. pick. Play chess not checkers if you're Bill O'Brien. Hold on to this valuable asset. Do not sell cheap.

McClain: People think the Texans have GM-by-committee. They don't. Bill O'Brien is in charge. Anyone who thinks he's not in charge is clueless. He has his personnel staff. They answer to O'Brien & O'Brien answers to Cal McNair. People acting like they're running around rudderless because they don't have a GM, that's not the case. You may not like what they're doing or the trade if they trade Clowney but it's Bill O'Brien's show.

In practice Thursday, Tytus Howard was 2nd team to Kelemete & Roderick Johnson replaced Kalil. What are we to read into that?

Wilson: We asked that question. He said this was just looking at him with the ones. Senio was their starter last year. He came into this year as the guy. Then we heard talk that they were going to replace him with Rankin. He's obviously still way better than Martinas Rankin. I think they're hedging their bets & seeing if Kelemete, if we move on from Kalil & Howard is the LT, could we go that way? That's an option. We were starting to write Kelemete off, I know I had at least. Would you rather have Kelemete than Rankin?

McClain: I think Rankin ought to be on the side of a milk carton. I haven't heard anyone talking about him. (Wilson: Not having that good of a camp, yeah) I don't know if it's mental, physical, lost his confidence but he hasn't stood out at all. I was told when Zach Fulton left KC for Houston, Chiefs thought he was a better center. Thoughts about Fulton?

Wilson: I'm interested in the Fulton option at center and Nick Martin at guard. Would they make that move? Would they consider it? If you want your best five, can you make an argument for: Howard-Martin-Fulton-Scharping-Henderson. It's a big lineup. I think it'd be interesting to see that group & would love to see it in a preseason game. I don't know even know if Nick will be ready for the 3rd preseason game at this rate. I'd like to see that idea floated.

What I saw today, they were seeing if Kelemete, giving him those reps in case they have to move on. I'd take everything with a grain of salt. They said it was a day off for Kalil but we've seen enough injuries from him in the past. He's made of glass & could go down at any moment. It's not like his play is that great. I'm being generous but he's been like a C+. More of a C? You might give him a D. Consistency & health are big factors. Davenport was a F. Maybe he's a D or C. They're marginally better with him at LT.

McClain: Very interesting Thursday Davenport was 2nd team & Roderick Johnson moved up to first team. What do you read into that?

Wilson: He said RJ has had a good camp. I agree with him. He has had a good camp. A young lineman worth developing. He was thought of pretty highly coming out of Florida State & then washed out with the Browns. Davenport, obviously not good. They don't think highly of his play. He didn't even get the chance to compete for the job he held last year. He can't be your LT. I thought he'd at least be the swing tackle.

McClain: Who is the swing tackle?

Wilson: Could he do it? Yeah I guess.

McClain: Julie'n could but do they want him on the team?

Wilson: Feels like they don't have any confidence in him. This line shuffle, some of it's because of health but some of it is because of talent. They seem willing to put anyone in there at any time. The fact Rankin hasn't been moved up is interesting. He's a 3rd round pick. One thing too that comes to mind: you fired your GM. He had a vision for what he thought these guys would do. Obviously the coach makes the decision who plays but in the acquisition of players, a lot of that was his vision. O'Brien signed off but he had the idea & brings it to him 'Hey I want to do this' & then it happens. For Rankin to fall this far out of favor when I thought he had a good offseason, I thought he had gotten in better shape, ... I would give him a chance but they know better. They don't think he should. I would almost be? surprised if he makes the team at this point because he's shown nothing & haven't given him the opportunities.

Something interesting today, they were throwing to the fullback. You have an article on Cullen Gillaspia. What do you think of this guy?

McClain: I think he has good chance to make the team. Let's go back to the other problem area at corner. I still think they need a slot corner. I'll be shocked if they don't get another slot corner, whether it's on the waiver wire or what. Thoughts about the corners?

Wilson: It's a real mixed bag. Encouraged by Bradley Roby. I'm worried about Johnathan Joseph against any kind of speed. He's super vulnerable to any kind of 9-route. It's tough to watch him against Will Fuller. It'll be tough against TY Hilton. I'd have Roby on any speed guy and J-Jo against the slow(er) WR.

Lonnie Johnson, sometimes he makes plays, sometimes he gets beat. He's got a lot to learn. Gotta keep growing up, keep maturing. I feel he has upside. He's a hitter. He's interesting. Haven't seen anything better from Colvin. It's OK but they can do better at slot. He's also very expensive. He's the most expensive corner & DB they have. He's on a 4-year, $34M deal. He has to do better. That ankle injury took far too long to come back from & wasn't playing great before that. They're thin at corner. I think they'll be reluctant to trade a ton more of these picks.

McClain: I don't see them trading a one or a two. Do you agree the safeties are in good hands?

Wilson: I like the safeties. This is the best safety group they've had in awhile. I liked what they had last year when you had Kareem at safety, along with Mathieu & Justin Reid coming in. Gipson fits this team like a glove. He's less about social media. He's not into that like Tyrann Mathieu was obsessed with. He's about ball. He's good at covering TEs. He's big, he's rangy. He'll hit you. He's not small. Mathieu was size deficient. That was a problem against guys like Zach Ertz & Rob Gronkowski. You look at what they can do with two thumpers, it's intriguing. They can have a great group there. I like the safety group. It's deep. So is ILB.

McClain: And they need OLBs, still need corners and a LT. One word, yes or no, will Clowney be traded?

Wilson: No.

McClain: And I'll say yes.

 

[Lucky]

Where did we hear that OB wants Clowney gone? There are verified quotes from OB out there that he wants Clowney on the team.

Are you being serious? Verified quotes? Every Tom, Dick, and The General have reported that O'Brien wants to trade Clowney. It's common knowledge. Don't bother quoting me on this, I'm pretending I never saw it.

 

[sandman]

Are you being serious? Verified quotes? Every Tom, Dick, and The General have reported that O'Brien wants to trade Clowney. It's common knowledge. Don't bother quoting me on this, I'm pretending I never saw it.

I'm saying OB has actually said in interviews that he wants Clowney on this team. Pretty sure some were even posted here.

Are you saying that he has actually stated in a presser or interview that he wants Clowney traded?

We can suppose and read between the lines all we want. It doesn't mean they haven't been testing the waters and for the right deal they wouldn't pull the trigger. You can even call him a liar. But he is on record as stating he wants Clowney on the team. It isn't a binary world. Just because they are willing to trade him doesn't mean they are not perfectly happy to have him stay on the team. You make it sound like OB is trying his damn best to run Clowney out of town on a rail and if he never played another game for the Texans that OB would be very happy.

 

[Dejaview]

Which could be complete BS. In fact, I call BS on that. I appreciate CnD's info as much as any fan here. But there's been nothing from any source that the Texans have concerns about Clowney's knee. The issue has been his relationship with O'Brien.

There has been ample opportunity to deal Clowney. The organization didn't indicate a willingness to do so this spring, based upon not bringing in or drafting a replacement. Something has changed from this spring to now. And no one is saying what that might be. We've heard O'Brien wants Clowney gone, but JD holds all the cards. It's a ridiculous situation, to be sure. Money is always involved when it comes to pro sports. But, it's not the entire equation.

I’m calling BS on this. Guy had micro fracture surgery following a torn meniscus and missed most of his first year. Missed the 2017 pro bowl due to his knee.....yet nobody in the Texans org have any concerns about his knee and would be willing to spend 100 MM$ or so on an xtension if it weren’t for his relationship with OB? What’s changed is Clowney wanting more than the Texans are comfortable with giving WITH that knee. Why franchise a guy you say they want gone. My guess it’s the best course to get more game data on that knee.

 

[Lucky]

Why franchise a guy you say they want gone. My guess it’s the best course to get more game data on that knee.

Did you read "Something has changed from this spring to now" ?

You're "guess" is that the Texans want "more game data" on Clowney's knee? The 58 regular season games and 4 postseason contests since the microfracture surgery aren't enough? What is the minimum number of games required?

 

[thunderkyss]

Agree to disagree, I trust CnD's opinion on Clowney's knee not only more than yours but also the Texans medical staff.

See that's the thing. This would be the first time the Texans were in line with CNNND's opinion.

I agree with Lucky. I doubt the Texans concerns has anything to do with Clowney's knee.

 

[steelbtexan]

delete

 

[steelbtexan]

See that's the thing. This would be the first time the Texans were in line with CNNND's opinion.

I agree with Lucky. I doubt the Texans concerns has anything to do with Clowney's knee.

Then they're getting bad medical advice. Because Clowney's knee is the reason they shouldn't guarantee more than 75 mil.

 

[thunderkyss]

Then they're getting bad medical advice. Because Clowney's knee is the reason they shouldn't guarantee more than 75 mil.

Agreed.

Like I said. This would be the first time they got ahead of an injury issue. Remember Boselli? Joppru? Dominic Davis? Schaub? I know you do.

 

[ATXtexanfan]

Just a question, wasn't clowney Injury due to home field conditions that have been overhauled?

 

[JB]

Just a question, wasn't clowney Injury due to home field conditions that have been overhauled?

Matter of conjecture

I say no

 

[TheKDog]

Aaron Wilson said they didn't even negotiate with clowney.

Wow, reading that interview, the OL is a complete mess.

Also this isn't gm by committee. It's O'Brien the gm.

 

[beerlover]

Aaron Wilson said they didn't even negotiate with clowney.

Do you have that quote from Aaron?

Wow, reading that interview, the OL is a complete mess.

The Offensive Line is in a bit of sorting out mode but given the investments its bound to be much improved.

Also this isn't gm by committee. It's O'Brien the gm.

How do we know this for sure? O'Brian may just be the point of contact man I doubt he doesn't confer first with Cal at the very least.

 

[IDEXAN]

John McClain is on record with his prediction that they definitely trade Clowney but Aaron Wilson says no they won't.
I'm with Wilson.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Here’s an actual reason why the Philadelphia Eagles should seriously consider acquiring Jadeveon Clowney to help better their Super Bowl chances.
Trading for a defensive end is a sure-fire way for thePhiladelphia Eaglesto make sure they have an elite pass rush this season, a theory that someNFLpundits have already expressed. Still, as ITI’s own Geoffrey Knox pointed out in a recent story onone NFL writer’s proposal for an all-time bad trade, tradingLane JohnsonforJadeveon Clowneyis foolish indeed.

Any logical Eagles fan would second the notion to kill that trade, but there is a scenario in which an offer for Clowney as a rental might be doable and acceptable.
Derek BarnettorBrandon Grahamcould be a great duo at defensive end. Then again, either one of them could get hurt, and that would leave the Eagles withVinny Curryand some unproven defensive ends as the guys for the rest of the season or as part of a playoff push.

Considering the number of injuries the Eagles have had to overcome over the past two seasons this is a huge risk. Philly’s already lost one of their standouts of the offseason and training camp,Joe Ostmanfor the season.

They’ll need a reliable defensive end like Clowney (when he’s motivated) that can attack from anywhere on the defensive front. Clowney can do that with hands in the dirt or if he’s rushing from a standing position, which is something the Eagles made two roster moves to find after Ostman went down.

This is only possible if theHouston Texansare committed to filling their needs and view the Eagles as their best answer. The Eagles have two tackles inHalapoulivaati VaitaiandJordan Mailata, either one would be able to start for the Texans right away. Supply and demand are in the Eagles favor especially with the emergence ofDaeshon Hall.
&&&
https://insidetheiggles.com/2019/08/19/trading-jadeveon-clowney-super-bowl-eagles/
&&&
But to keep the conversation here's a scenario involving the Eagles.
"The Eagles have two tackles inHalapoulivaati VaitaiandJordan Mailata"
Anybody know anything about those guys ?

 

[otisbean]

John McClain is on record with his prediction that they definitely trade Clowney but Aaron Wilson says no they won't.
I'm with Wilson.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Here’s an actual reason why the Philadelphia Eagles should seriously consider acquiring Jadeveon Clowney to help better their Super Bowl chances.
Trading for a defensive end is a sure-fire way for thePhiladelphia Eaglesto make sure they have an elite pass rush this season, a theory that someNFLpundits have already expressed. Still, as ITI’s own Geoffrey Knox pointed out in a recent story onone NFL writer’s proposal for an all-time bad trade, tradingLane JohnsonforJadeveon Clowneyis foolish indeed.

Any logical Eagles fan would second the notion to kill that trade, but there is a scenario in which an offer for Clowney as a rental might be doable and acceptable.
Derek BarnettorBrandon Grahamcould be a great duo at defensive end. Then again, either one of them could get hurt, and that would leave the Eagles withVinny Curryand some unproven defensive ends as the guys for the rest of the season or as part of a playoff push.

Considering the number of injuries the Eagles have had to overcome over the past two seasons this is a huge risk. Philly’s already lost one of their standouts of the offseason and training camp,Joe Ostmanfor the season.

They’ll need a reliable defensive end like Clowney (when he’s motivated) that can attack from anywhere on the defensive front. Clowney can do that with hands in the dirt or if he’s rushing from a standing position, which is something the Eagles made two roster moves to find after Ostman went down.

This is only possible if theHouston Texansare committed to filling their needs and view the Eagles as their best answer. The Eagles have two tackles inHalapoulivaati VaitaiandJordan Mailata, either one would be able to start for the Texans right away. Supply and demand are in the Eagles favor especially with the emergence ofDaeshon Hall.
&&&
https://insidetheiggles.com/2019/08/19/trading-jadeveon-clowney-super-bowl-eagles/
&&&
But to keep the conversation here's a scenario involving the Eagles.
"The Eagles have two tackles inHalapoulivaati VaitaiandJordan Mailata"
Anybody know anything about those guys ?

Talk about a homer. No way would the Texans trade Clowney for either one of those guys. A good trade should hurt both sides, if I’m the Texans GM I’d consider Dillard for Clowney swap. Objectively it’s a low first rd for Clowney, which is under value for a really good DLman. However, it’s a position of need for us so, to me it evens out.
For Philadelphia it makes their DL really good with solid depth. I think it puts the Eagles up with the Rams as favorites to win the NFC. If they can’t work a long term deal the Eagles can franchise and trade him after next season.
Seems like a win/win

 

[Dejaview]

Did you read "Something has changed from this spring to now" ?

You're "guess" is that the Texans want "more game data" on Clowney's knee? The 58 regular season games and 4 postseason contests since the microfracture surgery aren't enough? What is the minimum number of games required?

His knee injury isn’t typical. If I remember correctly CnD indicated his procedure had a shelf life. Would you extend him right now? For how long? How much would you pay him? Remember Watson and Reader and others you need to extend. I like Clowney but his contract could blow up our rebuilding program. I’d showcase him for a few games, see if we are going to the playoffs, if not try to trade him to someone who is and could use him for a run. I’d take even a three at that point because we just need to move on. Edit. Biggest rumors I hear involve the Jets and Pats.

 

[Lucky]

His knee injury isn’t typical. If I remember correctly CnD indicated his procedure had a shelf life. Would you extend him right now? For how long? How much would you pay him?

But is more “data” required? No.

Tag, trade, extend. A good organization puts itself in a position where it has options. Have the Texans done that? No. They’re not in a position to do anything but hope Clowney decides to sign his tender. It’s amateur hour over on Kirby. I’m not suggesting that Brian Gaine had a clue. But, he didn’t create this dysfunction.

How sad is it when you yearn for the good old days of Rick Smith?

 

[Dejaview]

But is more “data” required? No.

Tag, trade, extend. A good organization puts itself in a position where it has options. Have the Texans done that? No. They’re not in a position to do anything but hope Clowney decides to sign his tender. It’s amateur hour over on Kirby. I’m not suggesting that Brian Gaine had a clue. But, he didn’t create this dysfunction.

How sad is it when you yearn for the good old days of Rick Smith?

Just disagree totally. The franchise was the best move in Clowney’s case. No disfunction there as you claim. If he doesn’t sign that’s disfunctional on his part. I’m sure his doctors made clear the risks of his procedure. If you light the fuse on a stick of dynamite how long do you hold it? This isn’t an easy decision for either side. Unprecedented at his position as far as I know. Of course this forum will just trash any decision the Texans make but clearly a franchise tag is a viable option that actually extends the timeline for other options that could play out in the Texans favor.

 

[disaacks3]

Just a question, wasn't clowney Injury due to home field conditions that have been overhauled?

That was Clowney (and his agent's) theory...that he got hurt on the seams. The reality is Clowney came down smack in the middle of the pallet, nowhere near a seam when he was injured.

 

[Lucky]

... but clearly a franchise tag is a viable option that actually extends the timeline for other options that could play out in the Texans favor.

What other options? They couldn't/wouldn't get Clowney extended prior to the deadline. They couldn't/wouldn't trade Clowney prior to the deadline. There are no other options but to hope Clowney signs his tender. And he has before week 10 to do that. He may come in sooner. Or, he may wait it out to avoid possible injury. Or, he may agree to a trade, sign his tender, and play football somewhere else. Those are Clowney's options. Not the Texans. Their only options are to wait on Clowney or rescind the tender. Which makes Clowney a street FA. Some option.

 

[beerlover]

But is more “data” required? No.

Tag, trade, extend. A good organization puts itself in a position where it has options. Have the Texans done that? No. They’re not in a position to do anything but hope Clowney decides to sign his tender. It’s amateur hour over on Kirby. I’m not suggesting that Brian Gaine had a clue. But, he didn’t create this dysfunction.

How sad is it when you yearn for the good old days of Rick Smith?

Hey hey let’s not get too carried away Rick was unable to resign Mario Williams, at least this “group” used the franchise tag on Clowney keeping him at least one more season before the supplemental 3rd or basically what O’Brian just paid to get Duke.

What needs to happen is for the two sides to sit back down @ the negotiation table and bend a little to make JaDeveon stay productive and appreciated. If it’s still the same man behind the curtain, Olsen, he’s the one who needs to go if a deal can’t be signed.

 

[Dejaview]

Aaron Wilson said they didn't even negotiate with clowney.

Wow, reading that interview, the OL is a complete mess.

Also this isn't gm by committee. It's O'Brien the gm.

Chris Olsen is the primary contract negotiator for the Texans. Take it up with him. OB’s frustration with Clowney’s situation is obvious. OB never talks about players not on the field either by contract situations or injury. Say what you will he is a players coach by every account. He likes Clowney but he’s simply not focused on him. I don’t know the timetable for Clowney to sign vs the final roster cut to 53 but OB is only concentrating on “his guys”, those busting their ass to make the team. Clowney is within his rights to do what he will and OB knows that. But Clowney IS a roster spot and right now OB has some other guys at that spot on the bubble but playing really good football that he would like to keep....Bellamy and that kid from Akron I believe. These kids careers matter too and OB might be forced to make a move he doesn’t want to.

 

[Lucky]

What needs to happen is for the two sides to sit back down @ the negotiation table and bend a little to make JaDeveon stay productive and appreciated. If it’s still the same man behind the curtain, Olsen, he’s the one who needs to go if a deal can’t be signed.

Negotiations are over. It's up to Clowney to decide if he's coming in and when.

I may have gotten carried away with the Smith stuff. No one wants Rick back.

 

[Dejaview]

What other options? They couldn't/wouldn't get Clowney extended prior to the deadline. They couldn't/wouldn't trade Clowney prior to the deadline. There are no other options but to hope Clowney signs his tender. And he has before week 10 to do that. He may come in sooner. Or, he may wait it out to avoid possible injury. Or, he may agree to a trade, sign his tender, and play football somewhere else. Those are Clowney's options. Not the Texans. Their only options are to wait on Clowney or rescind the tender. Which makes Clowney a street FA. Some option.

Players always have all the options. Just depends how far they are willing to go. Texans made the correct move. They didn’t sign him at a level they didn’t deem smart for their reasons (tell me how they view their current salary cap vs players they need to re-sign) so they tagged him. Happens everywhere in the NFL. Only around here it called disfunctional. And who knows anything about trade discussions? Clowney’s health no doubt plays into the minds of all those other non disfunctional GM’s around the league or a guy with his skills would be gone. This guy is simply an enigma for everyone. Edit. In my mind it really goes back to the day he was drafted. Even then mystery surrounded him.

 

[IDEXAN]

What other options? They couldn't/wouldn't get Clowney extended prior to the deadline. They couldn't/wouldn't trade Clowney prior to the deadline. There are no other options but to hope Clowney signs his tender. And he has before week 10 to do that. He may come in sooner. Or, he may wait it out to avoid possible injury. Or, he may agree to a trade, sign his tender, and play football somewhere else. Those are Clowney's options. Not the Texans. Their only options are to wait on Clowney or rescind the tender. Which makes Clowney a street FA. Some option.

Clowney can't play in the NFL without signing the option with the Texans and he has to sign to play and get paid right ?

 

[Dejaview]

Negotiations are over. It's up to Clowney to decide if he's coming in and when.

I may have gotten carried away with the Smith stuff. No one wants Rick back.

Yeah, if we’ve learned anything here is that you NEVER EVER spend a 1-1 on anything other than a QB. RS unfortunately spent it twice on a DE.

 

[beerlover]

Negotiations are over. It's up to Clowney to decide if he's coming in and when.

I may have gotten carried away with the Smith stuff. No one wants Rick back.

It’s been Texans policy (McNair) not to negotiate past training camp but when your talking franchise player, Shirley it’s something important enough to keep working through? But since that’s not Texan style your right, probably won’t happen and options you laid out all that remains.

 

[Lucky]

Yeah, if we’ve learned anything here is that you NEVER EVER spend a 1-1 on anything other than a QB. RS unfortunately spent it twice on a DE.

There may have been some credence to that prior to the rookie salary cap. Not that big of a deal, now.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Yeah, if we’ve learned anything here is that you NEVER EVER spend a 1-1 on anything other than a QB. RS unfortunately spent it twice on a DE.

I don't know about that.

The one time we did spend it on a QB (Carr) we probably should have spend it on a DE (Peppers).

And the QB's that were taken high in Mario's and Clowney's drafts sucked anyways.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

It’s been Texans policy (McNair) not to negotiate past training camp but when your talking franchise player, Shirley it’s something important enough to keep working through? But since that’s not Texan style your right, probably won’t happen and options you laid out all that remains.

Couldn't happen at this point even if they wanted to...At least not publicly. They can agree to a hush hush we'll take care of you next season type of thing, but this year is a wrap. July 15th was the deadline for those talks.

 

[santo]

Yeah, if we’ve learned anything here is that you NEVER EVER spend a 1-1 on anything other than a QB. RS unfortunately spent it twice on a DE.

That means we should have taken Bortles, Leinart, Cutler, Vince Young, Manziel, Carr or Bridgewater.

And it's difficult to trade out of the #1 pick unless there's a qb worth taking, which obviously in those two drafts they weren't any.

 

[Dejaview]

I don't know about that.

The one time we did spend it on a QB (Carr) we probably should have spend it on a DE (Peppers).

And the QB's that were taken high in Mario's and Clowney's drafts sucked anyways.

Don’t have the hindsight on draft day. I said spend for a reason. If you don’t spend it you trade it. May not have what you want at QB but man is there trade value in a 1-1.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Don’t have the hindsight on draft day. I said spend for a reason. If you don’t spend it you trade it. May not have what you want at QB but man is there trade value in a 1-1.

Eh...takes two to trade

And those QB's had a lot of questions going into Draft day.

Again, Ironically, the guy who may have been thought of the highest was Carr...

 

[Dejaview]

Eh...takes two to trade

And those QB's had a lot of questions going into Draft day.

Again, Ironically, the guy who may have been thought of the highest was Carr...

Funny but this forum is trashing the Texans for not being able to trade Clowney. Trading a 1-1 however is probably the easiest trade to make on draft day.

 

[TheKDog]

Do you have that quote from Aaron?



The Offensive Line is in a bit of sorting out mode but given the investments its bound to be much improved.



How do we know this for sure? O'Brian may just be the point of contact man I doubt he doesn't confer first with Cal at the very least.

The quote from Aaron is above. OBrien the gm is also from Aaron above.

As far as the ol, we've said it can't get worse every year and it does

 

[TheKDog]

Chris Olsen is the primary contract negotiator for the Texans. Take it up with him. OB’s frustration with Clowney’s situation is obvious. OB never talks about players not on the field either by contract situations or injury. Say what you will he is a players coach by every account. He likes Clowney but he’s simply not focused on him. I don’t know the timetable for Clowney to sign vs the final roster cut to 53 but OB is only concentrating on “his guys”, those busting their ass to make the team. Clowney is within his rights to do what he will and OB knows that. But Clowney IS a roster spot and right now OB has some other guys at that spot on the bubble but playing really good football that he would like to keep....Bellamy and that kid from Akron I believe. These kids careers matter too and OB might be forced to make a move he doesn’t want to.

Lol now Olsen is the gm. I like how nothing is his job even when he fires a guy and takes it over

 

[TheKDog]

I heard they offered Clowney 75 mil guaranteed. With his knee (Which combined with needing to reup Watson/Watt) that's more than I would've offered him. I can see why the Texans org moved on.

I guess I trust CnD's evals more than most around these parts.

If they think his knee is that bad they wouldn't have offered $75 mil