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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

@riversmccown: I hesitate to say this because I already get enough Kool-Aid @'s but I think it needs to be said:

Jadeveon Clowney on a market-value deal is more valuable to the future of the Texans than Bill O'Brien is. If it is a "him or me" situation, McNair needs to consider the future.
 
If Cal believes his franchise is better served not having a real GM he is sadly mistaken.

But he doesn't believe that. They wanted Caserio. They didn't get Caserio. He didn't fire Gaine without a plan. May have been a bad plan. But he had a plan. It didn't work out. Current state is an obvious spin to say they are going to be OK in the short term, but there is no way you actually think that they WANT to run their organization without a GM.
 
4. One more note on #Eagles pass rush: Twice in the last month, I’ve asked if there is any interest in Jadeveon Clowney. And twice the response has been flat. His culture fit doesn’t seem right and his extension figures – likely around 5 years and $110 million – are a big burden.

— Charles Robinson (@CharlesRobinson) August 14, 2019
 
From an NFL.com article...

"The non-exclusive tag allows Clowney to negotiate with another team potentially, but Houston would get back two first-round picks in compensation. It's not expected a team would fork over two first-rounders for Clowney."

Link

Sides have until July 15 to hammer out a long-term solution.

People seem to be overlooking that the deadline for all that to happen has come and gone. Its why there was so much buzz a month ago about this, it was a big deal that was being swept under the rug. THE BEST ANYONE CAN DO .. Houston included is to get him to sign the franchise tag. YOu cant trade anyone who isnt under contract. Upon which; regardless of what team it is; he cant sign an extension until the first day after the league season - March. So No .. Clowney cant go to another team and sign a 100Ms contract and be a happy little bunny. The NFL is no joke when it comes to running things in an OCD manner. They want to know exactly how much money each franchise is making and how much the league will profit in turn affecting salary caps ETC... so you cant just have a bunch of disgruntled players moving around all year getting 100Ms type deals and fking up everyones bottom line. Thats why the deadlines are in place so they know exactly where everyone is.

All that 2 first round picks stuff is if Clowney could have found a team to pay him his long term offer within the window of negotiations and then Houston would have been given the option to match or take the two firsts. Now all that can happen is Clowney signs the franchise tender - plays well and tries to find a long term partner next year, or Houston can let him walk for at best a 3rd round compensatory pick and thats if they dont take back any high profile FAs themselves that render the comp. pick null.

Nobody is in a big rush to give up high picks for a guy who could possible walk after one year. There could be and definitely are some Chris Paul type hush-hush under the table deals that would require some integrity and trust from both sides, and it happens quite often I'd assume, but its still a risk to take for a team giving up high draft picks and players.
 
All the articles I've read indicates that after July 15th, JD can't negotiate a long term deal with a new club. But Badboy got me to check the CBA and I think he's onto something.

This is the section regarding nonexclusive franchise tenders which deals with trading a franchised player and says the signing period with a new club is described in section 15.
the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract with any Club as if he were a player subject to Section 5 below, except that Draft Choice Compensation of two first round draft selections shall be made with respect to such player in the event he signs with the New Club, and the Signing Period for such player shall be determined under Section 15 below.

The only dates mentioned in section 15 is the 10th week of the regular season.
Section 15. Signing Period for Franchise Players: (a) In the event that a player who is designated and tendered as a Franchise Player has not signed a Player Contract with a Club by the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, at 4:00pm New York time, the player shall be prohibited from playing football in the NFL for the remainder of that League Year

The following quote is in the same section regarding franchised players but to me, clearly defines a different date (July 15) for the player to be extended with the club that placed the franchise tag on the player (different than the 10th week date given for other teams to sign JD).
Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year.

To me, the CBA seems to say that JD can negotiate a long term deal (notice that the first quote only says 'the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract' -- it doesn't say it can't be a long term contract) with another team until week 10 of the regular season.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows....eral/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf
 
But he doesn't believe that. They wanted Caserio. They didn't get Caserio. He didn't fire Gaine without a plan. May have been a bad plan. But he had a plan. It didn't work out. Current state is an obvious spin to say they are going to be OK in the short term, but there is no way you actually think that they WANT to run their organization without a GM.

To want and get a GM are two different things, but congratulations Cal came up with a big ole gooses egg all over his franchises face. This is not the way to run a franchise/business and be successful. Every day, week, month that goes by your chief handler/GM/HC Bill O'Brian takes your company down a notch. I'm not sure anymore if he is even a good offensive coordinator? Not to mention head coach, now GM. Really? **** Caserio he's not coming so at least find yourself an experienced GM as interim while a real search is conducted like professionals do. There are plenty of people not named Caserio who could help in this situation. The fact they can't even do that does suggest they think can get by without one. Clowney situation needs to be handled better. They still need to upgrade LT. Watt's window is closing and Watson contract is on the horizon but can he stay healthy long enough to get his just due?

Texans need a GM and they need one now regardless who or what they believe they want.
 
Exactly! Sometimes I wish Crane or Fertitta would make Cal an offer the McNair family just can’t resist. I bet they’d hire the right people to steer this ship in the right direction. I wonder what they would do about this situation with Clowney?

Love what Fertitta has done at UH, but he’s an overstepping owner. That never ends well in professional sports. At least we would finally cut this conservative bullshit out though. Crane, absolutely. Hell, tell Les Alexander to come back and buy this team
 
People seem to be overlooking that the deadline for all that to happen has come and gone. Its why there was so much buzz a month ago about this, it was a big deal that was being swept under the rug. THE BEST ANYONE CAN DO .. Houston included is to get him to sign the franchise tag. YOu cant trade anyone who isnt under contract. Upon which; regardless of what team it is; he cant sign an extension until the first day after the league season - March. So No .. Clowney cant go to another team and sign a 100Ms contract and be a happy little bunny. The NFL is no joke when it comes to running things in an OCD manner. They want to know exactly how much money each franchise is making and how much the league will profit in turn affecting salary caps ETC... so you cant just have a bunch of disgruntled players moving around all year getting 100Ms type deals and fking up everyones bottom line. Thats why the deadlines are in place so they know exactly where everyone is.

All that 2 first round picks stuff is if Clowney could have found a team to pay him his long term offer within the window of negotiations and then Houston would have been given the option to match or take the two firsts. Now all that can happen is Clowney signs the franchise tender - plays well and tries to find a long term partner next year, or Houston can let him walk for at best a 3rd round compensatory pick and thats if they dont take back any high profile FAs themselves that render the comp. pick null.

Nobody is in a big rush to give up high picks for a guy who could possible walk after one year. There could be and definitely are some Chris Paul type hush-hush under the table deals that would require some integrity and trust from both sides, and it happens quite often I'd assume, but its still a risk to take for a team giving up high draft picks and players.

To the bolded: Exactly.
 
To me, the CBA seems to say that JD can negotiate a long term deal (notice that the first quote only says 'the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract' -- it doesn't say it can't be a long term contract) with another team until week 10 of the regular season.

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows....eral/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf

I can’t figure how you all are interpreting that.

It says it pretty plainly that the player can only sign a one year deal after July 15th with his prior club and the contract cannot be extended.

Also, the significance of the 10th week is the last chance the player has to sign the tag or they lose an accrued season.
 
I can’t figure how you all are interpreting that.

It says it pretty plainly that the player can only sign a one year deal after July 15th with his prior club and the contract cannot be extended.

Also, the significance of the 10th week is the last chance the player has to sign the tag or they lose an accrued season.
The language differentiates between "prior" club (the team that franchised the player or the Texans in this case) and "any" club or all the other teams that can sign him and lose 2 firsts. Your quote says "The player can only sign a one year deal after July 15th with his prior club." "Prior club" is defined as the Texans in this case. So yes, he can't extend with the Texans. But there is specific language dealing with a trade to another team "the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract with any Club" and it refers you to section 15 for the signing period in this trade scenario.

Section 15. Signing Period for Franchise Players: (a) In the event that a player who is designated and tendered as a Franchise Player has not signed a Player Contract with a Club (it would have used prior club here if it was referring only to the Texans) by the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, at 4:00pm New York time, the player shall be prohibited from playing football in the NFL for the remainder of that League Year.

Edit: The definition for prior club is giving on page 3.
“Prior Club” means the Club that contracted with or otherwise held the NFL playing rights for the player for the previous League Year
 
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The language differentiates between "prior" club (the team that franchised the player or the Texans in this case) and "any" club or all the other teams that can sign him and lose 2 firsts. Your quote says "The player can only sign a one year deal after July 15th with his prior club." "Prior club" is defined as the Texans in this case. So yes, he can't extend with the Texans. But there is specific language dealing with a trade to another team "the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract with any Club" and it refers you to section 15 for the signing period in this trade scenario.

Section 15. Signing Period for Franchise Players: (a) In the event that a player who is designated and tendered as a Franchise Player has not signed a Player Contract with a Club (it would have used prior club here if it was referring only to the Texans) by the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, at 4:00pm New York time, the player shall be prohibited from playing football in the NFL for the remainder of that League Year.


The any club portion only comes into play if he would have signed his tender by july 15th.

Think about what you're saying...If the July 15th deadline didn't mean what you thought it meant, then Clowney could come in, sign his tender and then any other club could offer him a contract and then just give the Texans draft compensation.

That is the point of the July 15th deadline. Yes, if Clowney would have signed his tender prior to the July 15th date then "a club" could have signed him to a contract and the Texans.
 
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The any club portion only comes into play if he would have signed his tender by july 15th.
You're saying that, but the contract language doesn't. It specifically says to refer to section 15 for the signing period which mentions the 10th week.

Think about what you're saying...If the July 15th deadline didn't mean what you thought it meant, then Clowney could come in, sign his tender and then any other club could offer himnopne a contract and then just give the Texans draft compensation.
How is that different than what everyone understands the rules to be before July 15? Yes, other teams can offer him a contract but lose up to 2 1st picks.

Question for you. When it says, "the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract with any Club...and the Signing Period for such player shall be determined under Section 15 below." How do you get July 15th from that when section 15 doesn't mention July 15 but only week 10?
 
https://sports.yahoo.com/jadeveon-clowney-trade-won-t-000739815.html

Anyone trading for Clowney would be getting his services for one year, with no ability to sign him to an extension until after the regular season ends. At that point, Clowney would have the leverage of a 20-percent raise over his 2019 salary, whether it’s $15.967 million or, if his grievance regarding his alleged status as a defensive end is successful, $17.128 million. That equates to either $19.16 million or $20.55 million for 2020, either of which becomes the starting point for negotiations on a long-term deal.

So what would a team, assuming it has the cap space to absorb Clowney’s contract, give up in order to get Clowney for one year? And what would the Texans want to part with the rights to Clowney for 2019 plus the ability to franchise-tag him in 2020, sign him to a long-term deal, or let him walk in free agency with a compensatory draft pick arriving in 2021?

e.g., tackle), it would be a draft-picks deal, and there likely won’t be a team that will offer enough in draft-pick compensation for a one-year rental, especially this close to the start of the season. Unless there’s a player who fits a specific need for Houston (e.g., tackle), it would be a draft-picks deal, and there likely won’t be a team that will offer enough in draft-pick compensation for a one-year rental, especially this close to the start of the season.

Indeed, if anyone wanted to trade for Clowney, they likely would have made the move before July 15, at which time Clowney could have been extended. The fact that, by all appearances, no one made an effort to trade for Clowney when he could have been signed to a long-term deal makes it far less likely that anyone would trade for him now, barring an injury or some other situation creating a need for Clowney that didn’t exist a month ago.
 
https://overthecap.com/the-texans-options-with-jadeveon-clowney/

The Texans had months to figure out what to do with Edge rusher Jadeveon Clowney, but somehow failed to come up with anything. Now with just a few weeks left to go before the season begins the Texans “GM by committee” has apparently decided that trying to trade Clowney is the best idea. So lets explore the situation a bit.

One of the first things to note is that the Texans can not just trade Clowney. Clowney is tendered at the moment and counts against the Texans salary cap, but he is not under contract to the organization. The NFL does not allow a team to trade the rights to a player so if they want to trade Clowney, Clowney needs to agree to the trade.

While that may seem like an easy task given that Clowney seemingly would like out of Houston at this point, Clowney would likely have some demands of his own. Currently Clowney is scheduled to earn $15,967,200 as a Franchise player. That number is based on his designation as a linebacker which is a point of contention. If classified as a defensive end Clowney would earn $17.1 million. At the very least he would likely want that higher salary to make his move out of Houston.

Clowney’s trade value would also be at an all time low if traded now. Not only does he carry a high salary cap figure that probably only 1/3 of the NFL could deal with, but a team would not be permitted, by the rules of the CBA, to extend him. So in essence this is a one year rental with a franchise tag provision. Had the Texans orchestrated a trade prior to July 15 a team would have been able to sign him to a long term contract the same way the 49ers did with Dee Ford when they negotiated a sign and trade. Clowney could as a condition of the trade go so far as to ask for a no franchise provision to further put pressure on the Texans to accept low compensation if he were to hold firm to that demand.


Clowney’s value, under normal circumstances, should fall somewhere between Khalil Mack’s multi first round trade and the 49ers 2nd rounder for Ford. Probably something like a first round pick and a mid round selection or a player thrown in on the trade. With the Texans looking as if they are in crisis mode the best they may be able to do is a second round pick.

The Texans best option, in my opinion, is to just hit the reset switch on the whole scenario and wait it out until next season when they actually have a GM making decisions. If Clowney fails to play this year he does not earn any salary. For each week he misses the Texans will get a $939,247 salary cap credit. The Texans would also retain the rights to Clowney next year and would have the ability to franchise tag him again. The Texans have a ridiculous amount of cap space next year (in the ballpark of $110 million) so holding a tender for Clowney is not difficult.

If tagged next year the franchise compensation falls from two first round picks to a first and third rounder. That is reasonable enough that it would not be a surprise if another team signed Clowney in free agency under those terms. At the very least they would be able to get a first round pick for him given that he would sign a long term deal with a new team as soon as the trade was executed.

There is no downside to this option. If Clowney refuses to report the Texans don’t spend a dime, don’t have Clowney, and have the rights to tag him again and trade him next year. If he does report they get Clowney for a season, hope it’s a good year, and retain his right to tag him and trade him next year. If they are aggressive with the trade market they should be able to get a pick in the 2020 draft the same as if they were to trade him now for pennies on the dollar. Who knows maybe they even come to terms on a long term contract.

If the Texans do go and find a trade scenario this year they have to make certain that unless they do get a first round pick, that any trade will escalate to a first round pick if the team that trades for him signs him to a long term contract. This is a trade condition that was used by the Jets years ago in a trade with the Saints which saw the Jets get added compensation if the Saints extended Jonathan Vilma. The Saints got around the condition by waiting a day into free agency to sign a new contract but that wrinkle was erased when the Jets, this time on the other side of a trade, agreed to something similar with the Seattle Seahawks with Percy Harvin. In this case the Seahawks drove the timeframe for a roster condition well into the late spring.

The worst thing that the Texans can do is take option 3 which is to trade him for a 3rd round pick because that’s the maximum compensatory pick they could expect. That is simply a sign of panic.

Some people have questioned how the Texans got in this position in the first place and did not do a long term deal with Clowney, but I can understand that one. Clowney has always reminded me of another former Texan- Mario Williams. Both players are/were Pro Bowl caliber players but neither, in my opinion, were once in a lifetime type of talents. However their draft status combined with the fact that they are high level players sets a salary expectation that is probably much higher than a team like the Texans sees fit.

Williams hit free agency when the Texans allowed him to walk and he signed an absolute monster of a contract with the Bills for $16 million a season. That contract in today’s salary cap environment would be worth just under $25 million a year, larger than the Mack record setting deal signed last season with the Bears. Clowney if he hit free agency could see that same kind of payday since there are a number of teams that are going to see his physical ability as so high that its worth the cost. It’s simply a situation where Clowney could never accept anything the Texans were going to offer that was “low” and the Texans likely saw no reason to make him earn such a monstrous salary when years ago they didn’t have to do the same for JJ Watt.

The Texans offseason has been nothing short of a disaster and this is just going to add to it if they don’t think this out and rush into a trade that strongly benefits another team.
 
The Texans best option, in my opinion, is to just hit the reset switch on the whole scenario and wait it out until next season when they actually have a GM making decisions. If Clowney fails to play this year he does not earn any salary. For each week he misses the Texans will get a $939,247 salary cap credit. The Texans would also retain the rights to Clowney next year and would have the ability to franchise tag him again. The Texans have a ridiculous amount of cap space next year (in the ballpark of $110 million) so holding a tender for Clowney is not difficult.

If tagged next year the franchise compensation falls from two first round picks to a first and third rounder. That is reasonable enough that it would not be a surprise if another team signed Clowney in free agency under those terms. At the very least they would be able to get a first round pick for him given that he would sign a long term deal with a new team as soon as the trade was executed.
******
The above was copied from Uncle Ricos post re the CBA.
I was under the impression if the Texans traded JD the other team was free to work out a long-term deal with him but since that's not the case,
clearly the Texans will be retaining JDs servcies for this year unless they do something else real stupid. Again!
It's no telling exactly how things got to this stage with Clowney other than to say it's a major failure of the Houston Texans organization at the highest levels of management.
Nothing more need be said.
I dunno can the Texans redesignate Clowney as this time for the franchise tag as a DE and not LB as a goodwill offering for the sake of future negotiations when this whole situation is all reconvened again in 2020 ? Like our friend SteelB might say they shouldn't act like a bunch of tight azzes trying to win the salary cap championship when they have so much cap space to burn.
 
Oh boy...

Ok...

We'll just agree to disagree. No biggie.
Agreed, no biggie. I'm not losing sleep over it. But one last thing to let you think about.

The any club portion only comes into play if he would have signed his tender by july 15th.
Section 15 (the section that tells us when the signing period is for other clubs to sign JD) specifically gives the scenario that the tender wasn't signed by July 15th.

"Section 15. Signing Period for Franchise Players: (a) In the event that a player who is designated and tendered as a Franchise Player has not signed a Player Contract with a Club by the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, at 4:00pm New York time, the player shall be prohibited from playing football in the NFL for the remainder of that League Year."
 
In the event that a player who is designated and tendered as a Franchise Player has not signed a Player Contract with a Club by the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, at 4:00pm New York time, the player shall be prohibited from playing football in the NFL for the remainder of that League Year."

The 10th week is talking about a Leveon Bell situation where if they don't sign the tender by then they lose an accrued season.

Not sure why that keeps getting brought up.
 
The 10th week is talking about a Leveon Bell situation where if they don't sign the tender by then they lose an accrued season.

Not sure why that keeps getting brought up.
It's that and it's also the signing period for other teams to sign a contract with JD. If he hasn't signed with the Texans or another team by the 10th week, he loses the season. It refers you to section 15 for when the signing period for other teams is. We're obviously going in circles so agree to disagree. Curious if you had a chance to study the cba? I felt like you did prior to looking at it.
 
It's that and it's also the signing period for other teams to sign a contract with JD. If he hasn't signed with the Texans or another team by the 10th week, he loses the season.

He cannot sign with any other team.

That's the point.

He COULD have if he'd have signed his tender before July 15th. But since he did not sign by that date, he can only sign the tag with the Texans.

He cannot just bypass the Texans at this point and go sign with another team. He also cannot (at this point) sign his franchise tender and then sign with another team. He could have done that prior to July 15th.

He has two options and ONLY two at this point. Sign the Tender by the 10th week, or sit out the season. That's it. He cannot negotiate a contract until March whether he signs and is traded or he signs and is not traded or he decides to sit out the year. July 15th was the deadline for all of the negotiating.

Edit: I did not look at the CBA until this stuff came up in this thread, and after looking at it I still do not see it how you all are interpreting it. Initially I was just going off of what every single sports outlet and journalist has reported.

And after reading it I agree with what they've reported. I'm still completely confused on how you guys are coming to the conclusions you are but that's just why I keep saying I'm going to just leave it alone because I just don't see where the debate about it is coming from.
 
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He cannot sign with any other team.

That's the point.

He COULD have if he'd have signed his tender before July 15th. But since he did not sign by that date, he can only sign the tag with the Texans.

He cannot just bypass the Texans at this point and go sign with another team. He also cannot (at this point) sign his franchise tender and then sign with another team. He could have done that prior to July 15th.

He has two options and ONLY two at this point. Sign the Tender by the 10th week, or sit out the season. That's it. He cannot negotiate a contract until March whether he signs and is traded or he signs and is not traded or he decides to sit out the year. July 15th was the deadline for all of the negotiating.

Edit: I did not look at the CBA until this stuff came up in this thread, and after looking at it I still do not see it how you all are interpreting it. Initially I was just going off of what every single sports outlet and journalist has reported.

And after reading it I agree with what they've reported. I'm still completely confused on how you guys are coming to the conclusions you are but that's just why I keep saying I'm going to just leave it alone because I just don't see where the debate about it is coming from.
No worries. We just read it differently. If you're up to it, would you mind showing the language in the cba that supports your take? If you don't feel like doing it, no worries again. I'm not arguing to argue. I just can't find what you're saying in the cba but I think my position is spelled out.
 
To many variables. The Texans will lose him in due time and at best will get a COMP RD3 pick in return. Contact the Redskins and try to make a deal. They got a hold-out, the Texans have a hold-out, and both could serve the needs of the other team.

I do not see any team throwing low draft picks or multiple picks at the Texans for Clowney. So I would have no issues if the Texans could move Clowney straight up for LT, Williams.

Personally, the Texans need a QB2 who can stay healthy and play the system OB wants to deploy. I think Keenum is a better than McCarron.....not that McCarron is bad, I just think Keenum could keep the ball moving better if Watson was to get injured. By the same token, I honestly see the Redskins system as a far better fit for McCarron.

Redskins will need an answer at LT to help nudge this deal along, so this is where the veteran Kalil comes into the picture. Include him in the trade for a 2020 pick.....it'll be a little lower b/c McCarron wouldn't off-set the Keenum portion of the deal.

TEXANS GET:
LT- Williams
QB- Keenum
2020 RD3 Pick

REDSKINS GET:
EDGE- Clowney
LT- Kalil
QB- McCarron
 
To many variables. The Texans will lose him in due time and at best will get a COMP RD3 pick in return. Contact the Redskins and try to make a deal. They got a hold-out, the Texans have a hold-out, and both could serve the needs of the other team.

I do not see any team throwing low draft picks or multiple picks at the Texans for Clowney. So I would have no issues if the Texans could move Clowney straight up for LT, Williams.

Personally, the Texans need a QB2 who can stay healthy and play the system OB wants to deploy. I think Keenum is a better than McCarron.....not that McCarron is bad, I just think Keenum could keep the ball moving better if Watson was to get injured. By the same token, I honestly see the Redskins system as a far better fit for McCarron.

Redskins will need an answer at LT to help nudge this deal along, so this is where the veteran Kalil comes into the picture. Include him in the trade for a 2020 pick.....it'll be a little lower b/c McCarron wouldn't off-set the Keenum portion of the deal.

TEXANS GET:
LT- Williams
QB- Keenum
2020 RD3 Pick

REDSKINS GET:
EDGE- Clowney
LT- Kalil
QB- McCarron

Dude do you not remember how shitty OBrien spoke about Keenum. Buttchin told that man he would never be an NFL QB. It was in Keenums book. I'd have to say that Keenum coming here is virtually impossible.

edit: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/keenum-on-obriens-third-string-claim-its-in-the-book/ar-BBPc2zX

Said Keenum in the book: “Coach O’Brien looked right at me and told me I’d never be more than third-string quarterback."
 
No worries. We just read it differently. If you're up to it, would you mind showing the language in the cba that supports your take? If you don't feel like doing it, no worries again. I'm not arguing to argue. I just can't find what you're saying in the cba but I think my position is spelled out.

Going to decline.
I wouldn't be posting anything from the CBA different than what you have.
 
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again with the MEH... It seems like still the offseason

Worse than the off season, at least in the off season we can have discussion on the draft and F/A and such. This place is becoming like one giant presidential debate. Two sides hammering the same stupid points home no matter the topic or question and neither of them at all interested in listening to what the other side has to say. Its almost not worth the time at work it kills to come on here.
 
Worse than the off season, at least in the off season we can have discussion on the draft and F/A and such. This place is becoming like one giant presidential debate. Two sides hammering the same stupid points home no matter the topic or question and neither of them at all interested in listening to what the other side has to say. Its almost not worth the time at work it kills to come on here.

I remember this time of year had all kinds of good unbiased information from practices back in the day . I can't remember their names off the top of my head but you got little gems like Sage is way ahead of Carr . There would be pages of insight but now , not so much .
 
I remember this time of year had all kinds of good unbiased information from practices back in the day . I can't remember their names off the top of my head but you got little gems like Sage is way ahead of Carr . There would be pages of insight but now , not so much .

You meant Sage way ahead of Schaub, right Shirley?

:D
 
You meant Sage way ahead of Schaub, right Shirley?

:D


I remember Patrick starr saying savage was ahead of Watson.

There's plenty of analysis. I've posted the analysis from starr, McClain, Wilson ,stoots, mccown and others. Not sure anyone reads them and wants to argue about Rick Smith instead
 
Starr and McClain don't align with me and I link them the most. They both like OBrien

Yeah nothing personal directed at you, just general assessment. Makes me wonder if some of the hard lines drawn around here between the Pumpers and the Haters are as a reaction to each other. Kind of like with politics.
 
I think BOB could put most of the back and forth between pumpers and haters to rest with a super bowl win or 2. I haven't given up on that prospect yet, but it doesn't keep me from speaking up when I don't agree with something he does.
 
Yeah nothing personal directed at you, just general assessment. Makes me wonder if some of the hard lines drawn around here between the Pumpers and the Haters are as a reaction to each other. Kind of like with politics.

100% No one in their right mind would say that BoB is the greatest coach or our offense or defense are great, likewise no one in their right mind would say Bob is the worst coach and our offense and defense are horrible. It really does amaze me how some people on here see it completely black and white with no grey area. Either BoB is the next Belichick or he isn't fit to coach a high school team. I think he is like most coaches, good at some things not so good at others. Are the things he's good at enough to overcome what he isn't and take us to the next level? I don't know but I do know that no one has presented a realistic upgrade that we could get that would make it worth losing 2-3 more years of our player's careers.
 
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100% No one in their right mind would say that BoB is the greatest coach or our offense or defense are great, likewise no one in their right mind would say Bob is the worst coach and our offense and defense are horrible. It really does amaze me how some people on here see it completely black and white with no grey area. Either BoB is the next Belichick or he isn't fit to coach a high school team. I think he is like most coaches, good at some things not so good at others. Are the things he's good at enough to overcome what he isn't and take us to the next level? I don't know but I do know that no one has presented a realistic upgrade that we could get that would make it worth losing 2-3 more years of our player's careers.

at this point he can ride DW4's young career. I don't really mind how Bob is coaching texans. we just need better GM now to find new pro bowlers. haven't had another cushing type of linebackers in so long.

I knew drafting d line would make this not paying 2nd line man. wish we drafted Mack. texans would have paid him so fast.
 
Dude do you not remember how shitty OBrien spoke about Keenum. Buttchin told that man he would never be an NFL QB. It was in Keenums book. I'd have to say that Keenum coming here is virtually impossible.

edit: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/keenum-on-obriens-third-string-claim-its-in-the-book/ar-BBPc2zX

Does Buttchin ever get tired of being wrong? Keenum was going to be nothing more than a QB3 in the NFL, then he leads the Vikings to the NFC Championship Game. Every QB OB has selected has failed miserably in his system.....except Watson but OB is doing his best to destroy him as well. Oh yeah, not one of his QB's has even come close to taking the Texans to an AFC Championship Game. OB would only be o lucky to have Keenum as his QB2.

I know OB would never bring back Keenum but that's what these message boards are about.....discussing what we would see as great moves for the team. So far......MB's 100 and OB a solid 5.
 
This is the very situation why you should not have a GM/HC. And don't talk to me about HOFers like Walsh and Belichick. They're from another universe.

A GM could tell a pissed off HC that he's not trading a Pro Bowl player over a dispute with the coach. It's not in the short or long term interest of the franchise. Suck it up coach. Suck it up player. Get the F back to work.

But when Bill O'Brien the coach tells Bill O'Brien the GM that he wants Clowney gone, the GM says, "You got it coach." No one there is looking after anyone but what the coach wants. Same thing if the coach loves the player. The GM overpays the player to keep him and the coach happy. This doesn't work. It will not work. Nothing good can come of it.
 
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