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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Kaiser Toro said:
Texian the Masterbaiter. Breaker of wind. Father of trolls.
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And the King of Gotchas but in this case the shoe fits, those who Liked your post are also guilty of taking hook, line and sinker for one play in one bowl game. Is what is, you're who you are.
 
badboy said:
"Do they have a safety who can consistently do an effective job of covering the TE ? But the point is Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers running pass patters." Idexan #1026
"He was drafted to help the team. However he can best do that is the point" JB in response.
I understood JB's comment to mean that Clowney was to do whatever coaches tell him. All players are expected to do that. IDexan was saying Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers and I agreed with his point and still do.
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I agree that Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers, but to act like he will never drop into coverage is ludicrous. It's also a bit disingenuous to act like he would be responsible for covering the TE 100% of the time if he played at SOLB
 
JB said:
I agree that Clowney was not drafted to cover receivers, but to act like he will never drop into coverage is ludicrous. It's also a bit disingenuous to act like he would be responsible for covering the TE 100% of the time if he played at SOLB
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Now we are starting to align as neither IDexan (post 1026) or I suggested he will never drop into coverage. He said we would not want him doing that on regular basis and I agree. Same with Cushing when he was drafted. Not meaning to attack you but your posts including the one above seem to go to extremes as in saying it was posted Clowney will "never" drop into coverage and "he would be responsible for covering TE 100% of time". Anyway, on to other things. :fostering:
 
Continuing with the topic of using players in secondary/functions roles other than for which they were drafted: anybody else remember the time Matt Schaub was used as a blocking-back vs the Ravens ? Schaub didn't actually block Terrell Suggs, rather he feigned a bloc. I think they replayed that all week following the game and it was really hilarious. OK so that's about how often I'd like to see JD in pass-coverage over the course of a season. JMHI.
 
Here's the thing..
I think Clowney is gonna have a monster year but I almost don't want him to do so, as I know we only have what, one more year after this one, and then he's a free agent.?.
It's just upsetting to carry his 'mostly injured dead weight' for so long only to have him finally come around and produce what was expected the whole time only to force a bank breaking situation.
Of course, that said.. it's not as if I don't want him excell.. I just hope against hope he extends his contract with us for what he deserves minus time lost.. if that makes sense.
 
Sonny said:
Here's the thing..
I think Clowney is gonna have a monster year but I almost don't want him to do so, as I know we only have what, one more year after this one, and then he's a free agent.?.
It's just upsetting to carry his 'mostly injured dead weight' for so long only to have him finally come around and produce what was expected the whole time only to force a bank breaking situation.
Of course, that said.. it's not as if I don't want him excell.. I just hope against hope he extends his contract with us for what he deserves minus time lost.. if that makes sense.
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This is year 3 for JDC. If the Texans pick up his 5th year option, he is signed through 2018. I will be perfectly ok with the Texans doing that then trying to trade him or letting him test the FA market. I have no interest in signing him to a monster contract.
 
Sonny said:
Even if he blows up JJ style the next couple years?
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For the most part, yeah. I think those would be the only couple of years that he'll be that productive. I'd let another team gamble that kind of money on damaged goods. Go back and read what CnD has posted. The long term prognosis on JDC is not good.
 
Sonny said:
Here's the thing..
I think Clowney is gonna have a monster year...
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Can Jadeveon Clowney Finally Break out in 2016?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-nfls-best-bet-for-a-breakout-season-in-2016

When thinking realistically about Clowney's 2015 performance, one must reduce his season to an even smaller sample size, searching for moments of brilliance. There needs to be some forgiveness, particularly early in the year when he was still finding his form.

Upon changing from a broad view that doesn’t account for his recovery to a zoomed-in look at a series of games or plays within them, the seeds for potential moving forward are planted. That’s when we’ll see the Clowney who was deemed worthy of being a first overall pick.

When narrowing the view to just two games from 2015, his potential emerges immediately, as Clowney scattered flashes of his immense talent and athleticism throughout each.

The first came in Week 2, which was when a third-ranked Texans defense provided an early blueprint for how to contain Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton. He averaged only 5.3 yards per pass attempt against Houston, significantly lower than his overall season average of 7.7 yards.

Clowney played a modest 62.8 percent of the Texans’ defensive snaps in that game. Yet he still finished with five quarterback hurries, a batted pass and a defensive stop.

He didn’t record a sack, which is both the shining jewel every pass-rusher chases and a misleading metric. Though sacks are the most efficient way to defend any pass, simply being disruptive can be just as effective, and Clowney utilized his speed to consistently make Newton’s life miserable.

The shining example of his impact came during a 2nd-and-13 play in the first quarter.

Clowney was at right defensive end for this passing down, and getting to Newton meant forcing Carolina into a 3rd-and-long situation. He lined up in a four-point stance, and then exploded at the snap as he so often does. Remember, we’re talking about a 6’5”, 266-pound athlete who ran a 4.53 in the 40-yard dash at the combine. Speed is his thing.

Quick strides that eat up space give Clowney access to angles others only daydream about. On the play in question, he became an oversized sprinter. He created the angle shown below after one short step sideways to set up his route around the edge, followed by three long, looping strides to turn the corner.

He had already established a path to Newton with minimal resistance before even making contact.

Panthers tackle Michael Oher couldn’t come close to matching Clowney’s acceleration around the outside. He was caught flatfooted while trying to shift his weight and counteract the rapid movement of his blocking assignment.

So when contact finally came, Clowney had set himself up for an easy win. With his speed building so Oher couldn’t punch into his chest, Clowney swiped with his right hand, sending the blocker even further off balance.

From there, the rest was easy; it was a matter of first gaining leverage, then using it to finish the job. Clowney tucked his shoulder underneath Oher’s arm and kept his legs pumping. He arrived in time to swat the ball in Newton’s hand as his arm came forward, which resulted in an incompletion.

Clowney excels by creating and capitalizing on leverage, with the element of surprise through speed the main foundation for his thrashing ways.

But he’s capable of winning trench battles with raw strength, too. Even if he’s double-teamed, which the New England Patriots tried in Week 14.

The Texans rushed only three on a 3rd-and-short, which freed up two blockers to focus on Clowney. He quickly turned a disadvantage into embarrassment.

The 23-year-old engaged with Patriots left tackle Sebastian Vollmer and looked to be contained for a fleeting second. That changed with one violent left hand that clubbed Vollmer, sending him staggering in cartoonish fashion.
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NFL analyst: Texans' Jadeveon Clowney facing make-or-break season
***
Plenty of eyes will be on Jadeveon Clowney this fall.
The Texans' third-year linebacker, who was drafted first overall in 2014, said recently that he feels "great" and is "healthy enough to be where I need to be."
His reputation is on the line. Clowney says he is healthy. Thus, there are no excuses. Clowney needs to sack the quarterback at least 10 times this year, and I think he's capable of reaching that mark. Can he help lead the Texans to a second consecutive AFC South title? A sustained playoff run? And top-five defensive ranking? There are no more excuses.
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/NFL-analyst-Texans-Jadeveon-Clowney-facing-7959909.php
 
i keep reading stories about the jags and Fowler. He's supposed to be some mystical bonus to their defense because he missed the entire year. People aren't saying the same for us and clowney.

Why?

When he played i saw unique athleticism. His run defense was better then expected. In his absence, we found out Whitney wasn't a bust. This year IS his year boom or bust.
 
powda said:
i keep reading stories about the jags and Fowler. He's supposed to be some mystical bonus to their defense because he missed the entire year. People aren't saying the same for us and clowney.

Why?

When he played i saw unique athleticism. His run defense was better then expected. In his absence, we found out Whitney wasn't a bust. This year IS his year boom or bust.
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Or maybe something in between like a year where he plays the run very well again and ends up with 7 or 8 sacks.
 
IDEXAN said:
Or maybe something in between like a year where he plays the run very well again and ends up with 7 or 8 sacks.
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Clowney continues to show his strength against the run, gets in the backfield meaningfully, batted balls, QB hits, etc. I would have no issue whatsoever with 7-8 sacks. He doesn't get 10-12 sacks without Mercilus or Watt having less than last year.

I know how it will work around here though. If Watt goes below 15, then the Texans used him up too much his first 5 seasons. If Mercilus drops back below 10 sacks, he was a one-year wonder bust. If Clowney doesn't get 10+ sacks, then he is a bust. When was the last time a team had 3 players with 10+ sacks in a season?
 
sandman said:
Clowney continues to show his strength against the run, gets in the backfield meaningfully, batted balls, QB hits, etc. I would have no issue whatsoever with 7-8 sacks. He doesn't get 10-12 sacks without Mercilus or Watt having less than last year.

I know how it will work around here though. If Watt goes below 15, then the Texans used him up too much his first 5 seasons. If Mercilus drops back below 10 sacks, he was a one-year wonder bust. If Clowney doesn't get 10+ sacks, then he is a bust. When was the last time a team had 3 players with 10+ sacks in a season?
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2014 Bills.

Can you name the players on each NFL team that has seen 3 players record 10+ sacks in a single season?
 
powda said:
i keep reading stories about the jags and Fowler. He's supposed to be some mystical bonus to their defense because he missed the entire year. People aren't saying the same for us and clowney.

Why?

When he played i saw unique athleticism. His run defense was better then expected. In his absence, we found out Whitney wasn't a bust. This year IS his year boom or bust.
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Probably because Fowler suffered a single ACL tear with no other significant history of injuries or surgeries.............at very distinct contrast to Clowney's extensive concentrated history of injuries and surgeries..........especially with the long-term implications of a microfracture knee which is likely to show breakdown of the pseudo cartilage at ~18 months post surgery.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Probably because Fowler suffered a single ACL tear with no other significant history of injuries or surgeries.............at very distinct contrast to Clowney's extensive concentrated history of injuries and surgeries..........especially with the long-term implications of a microfracture knee which is likely to show breakdown of the pseudo cartilage at ~18 months post surgery.
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Dr Doom strikes again! Say something positive about Clowney... (or try)
 
sandman said:
Clowney continues to show his strength against the run, gets in the backfield meaningfully, batted balls, QB hits, etc. I would have no issue whatsoever with 7-8 sacks. He doesn't get 10-12 sacks without Mercilus or Watt having less than last year.
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Regardless of the circumstances that would be three straight years for a #1 draft pick.

sandman said:
I know how it will work around here though. If Watt goes below 15, then the Texans used him up too much his first 5 seasons. If Mercilus drops back below 10 sacks, he was a one-year wonder bust. If Clowney doesn't get 10+ sacks, then he is a bust. When was the last time a team had 3 players with 10+ sacks in a season?
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Sounds like you are the one that is saying outragious stuff. Mercilous has really only one big time season as a first round pick. He was great last year. Can he do it again? Hopefully. Personally I think he will, but people will likely say that and they won't be wrong based on the number of seasons that he has played. Watt? People worship him. No one that anyone would take seriously is going to say anything like that surrounding him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Probably because Fowler suffered a single ACL tear with no other significant history of injuries or surgeries.............at very distinct contrast to Clowney's extensive concentrated history of injuries and surgeries..........especially with the long-term implications of a microfracture knee which is likely to show breakdown of the pseudo cartilage at ~18 months post surgery.
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So we are right about there at the 18 month mark now, so sounds like we've already seen in the 2015 season about the best we can expect from Clowney, but we can still hold out hope that maybe Clowney will be that exception.
 
I expect Clowney to be a 7-10 sack guy why will make some plays here and now. He was good vs run in college and a avg pass rusher then. If he stays healthy, he can have a derrick morgan-kam Wimberley type of career. Not quite the yellow jacket or all pro type, but just a good,solid career.
 
Sonny said:
Here's the thing..
I think Clowney is gonna have a monster year but I almost don't want him to do so, as I know we only have what, one more year after this one, and then he's a free agent.?.
It's just upsetting to carry his 'mostly injured dead weight' for so long only to have him finally come around and produce what was expected the whole time only to force a bank breaking situation.
Of course, that said.. it's not as if I don't want him excell.. I just hope against hope he extends his contract with us for what he deserves minus time lost.. if that makes sense.
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Think about it like this....Texans had no shot of doing much with Hoyer at QB. If Clowney gives you two good years while and Os can produce then you really didn't lose much. He'd be playing his best when the Texans had their best shot.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Think about it like this....Texans had no shot of doing much with Hoyer at QB. If Clowney gives you two good years while and Os can produce then you really didn't lose much. He'd be playing his best when the Texans had their best shot.
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Pretty much the way i look at it. Clowney's growing, injured, recovery years were during our toilet bowl quarterback years. It's done and cant be changed, but if he's going to explode - do it with watt while our offense is finally on track (we hope.)

2 years out i want RESULTS and worry about the money later.
 
Texans' DeAndre Hopkins: 'Everybody on this team has good character'
By Aaron Wilson

Published 8:53 am, Thursday, June 9, 2016

The Texans haven't had to deal with the off-field problems that have plagued several other NFL franchises.

They've had two arrests since the 2009 season, including wide receiver Jaelen Strong being arrested for possession of marijuana in February and defensive tackle Brandon Ivory being arrested for burglary charges last year.

It's the lowest amount of arrests in the NFL during that span.


"Honestly, we don't talk to each other because everybody on this team has good character," Texans Pro Bowl wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins said. "There's not too many guys on this team that I know about that likes to party every night or that's out there on the scene. We're probably last in the league on off the field troubles, if I'm not mistaken. So, that's a credit to this organization on drafting guys like that."
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Texans' Jadeveon Clowney misses first day of minicamp
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/...irst-day-of-8131318.php?cmpid=twitter-desktop
Texans outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney has the flu and was sent home from the first day of minicamp because he wasn't feeling well, according to coach Bill O'Brien.

Clowney has been generally healthy this spring after the former top overall draft pick dealt with a myriad of injuries last season.

Starting outside linebacker Whitney Mercilus remains sidelined with a hamstring injury.
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Flu like symptoms. Definitely don't need that spreading through the locker room.
 
PapaL said:
Texans' Jadeveon Clowney misses first day of minicamp
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/...irst-day-of-8131318.php?cmpid=twitter-desktop


Flu like symptoms. Definitely don't need that spreading through the locker room.
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Keep in mind that the incubation period influenza virus (time from exposure to development of infection) is 1-4 days (average 2 days). However, most infected adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. It is likely that by the time a person is diagnosed (many will have a lag period to correct diagnosis), he will have likely already spread the joy to his fellow players and coaches (especially in an enclosed locker room environment where air-borne influenza virus is readily floating around).

tumblr_nlvnkfx4yO1r6ym6go1_400.gif
 
so would i be a dick to say that if JD has a less than stellar year he will creep into BUST territory? I was really expecting something more dynamic than a good edge setter.
 
Uncle Rico said:
so would i be a dick to say that if JD has a less than stellar year he will creep into BUST territory? I was really expecting something more dynamic than a good edge setter.
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You can call him anything you want. I'm personally not gonna label him a bust because of bad luck injury wise. He's not the player I wanted us to draft 1-1, but it is what it is. I didn't want MW either, but nobody asked for my opinion
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Keep in mind that the incubation period influenza virus (time from exposure to development of infection) is 1-4 days (average 2 days). However, most infected adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. It is likely that by the time a person is diagnosed (many will have a lag period to correct diagnosis), he will have likely already spread the joy to his fellow players and coaches (especially in an enclosed locker room environment where air-borne influenza virus is readily floating around).

tumblr_nlvnkfx4yO1r6ym6go1_400.gif
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My experience working in offices last 20 years was most folks continued working a day or three before flu shut them down. Many had no sick time to use and could not afford time off. Instead they showed up, infected others and still missed time.
 
JB said:
You can call him anything you want. I'm personally not gonna label him a bust because of bad luck injury wise. He's not the player I wanted us to draft 1-1, but it is what it is. I didn't want MW either, but nobody asked for my opinion
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Mario Williams was a better player coming out of college. Head and shoulders has been a better professional. I get the 1-1 comparisons, but its not fair to compare JD to Mario, JD has a LOOOOONG way to go.

Yeah I get it injuries happen so he should get a pass. Sigh.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Don't know how smart that is............for the rest of the team.
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If I understand correctly, I think you said that about at the 18-month mark post micro fracture surgery is about where one would start to experience deterioration of the artificial tissue, i.e., it's then all downhill ?
So I was listening to a sports radio talk show today and the hosts were saying that at the 18-24 month mark is where the player begins to see his best recovery and progress, best results post surgery. Well now I'm confused ? So I suspect this means the 790 radio guys got it wrong ?
 
IDEXAN said:
If I understand correctly, I think you said that about at the 18-month mark post micro fracture surgery is about where one would start to experience deterioration of the artificial tissue, i.e., it's then all downhill ?
So I was listening to a sports radio talk show today and the hosts were saying that at the 18-24 month mark is where the player begins to see his best recovery and progress, best results post surgery. Well now I'm confused ? So I suspect this means the 790 radio guys got it wrong ?
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Where did those guys get their medical opinion? CnnnD is a surgeon and has been very accurate with his info historically.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Mario Williams was a better player coming out of college. Head and shoulders has been a better professional. I get the 1-1 comparisons, but its not fair to compare JD to Mario, JD has a LOOOOONG way to go.

Yeah I get it injuries happen so he should get a pass. Sigh.
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I made no comparison of JD and MW, other than to say I didn't want either at 1-1

Yeah and injuries happen... not gonna call the guy a bust at this point. It would be a bit premature even without the injuries
 
badboy said:
Where did those guys get their medical opinion? CnnnD is a surgeon and has been very accurate with his info historically.
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Guess I'm just looking for a reaffirmation because I'd be the last to question his expertise. Maybe there's exceptions ? Maybe players of smaller physical dimensions have better opportunities for recovery ? Like I said I probably just misunderstood.
 
IDEXAN said:
Guess I'm just looking for a reaffirmation because I'd be the last to question his expertise. Maybe there's exceptions ? Maybe players of smaller physical dimensions have better opportunities for recovery ? Like I said I probably just misunderstood.
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I suspect the answer you are going to get is this - recovery takes 18 months, degeneration starts at day 1, so the best play you are going to get is from 18 months on until degenerative becomes disabling.

So they aren't really contradictory.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Mario Williams was a better player coming out of college. Head and shoulders has been a better professional. I get the 1-1 comparisons, but its not fair to compare JD to Mario, JD has a LOOOOONG way to go.

Yeah I get it injuries happen so he should get a pass. Sigh.
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I don't remember seeing a single negative post RE Clowney off the field or on the field except due to his injury history.

I guess if you overlook Mario getting in trouble for driving his Lambo a bazillion miles an hour his rookie year, a very public and messy break up with his fiance and a well documented history of being lazy (taking plays off, not playing to the whistle) and not being the best teammate he can be, then you would be right about the bolded.

I would agree that Mario has been the better player when comparing their 1st two years in the league. I disagree that Mario has been the better professional.
 
DocBar said:
I don't remember seeing a single negative post RE Clowney off the field or on the field except due to his injury history.

I guess if you overlook Mario getting in trouble for driving his Lambo a bazillion miles an hour his rookie year, a very public and messy break up with his fiance and a well documented history of being lazy (taking plays off, not playing to the whistle) and not being the best teammate he can be, then you would be right about the bolded.

I would agree that Mario has been the better player when comparing their 1st two years in the league. I disagree that Mario has been the better professional.
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Are you being serious? Clowney's own coach questioned his heart in college. Mario was more dynamic pass rusher in college. Lets not even bring up Marios professional stats because then it becomes an even bigger blunder at 1-1 since Mario is fast approaching 100 sacks on his career. A couple more good seasons and he will start being mentioned as an all time pass rusher. Provide link of him not being a good teammate? I thin thats just rhetoric on your part. So you have to dig into his personal life to throw shade at him? Okay.

Jadeveon Clowney is facing single coverage far too often with all the attention Watt draws to be this inefficient getting to the passer. I didnt want an good edge setter at 1-1, that could have been addressed in the 5th round.

Too bad that we couldnt hold onto Mario. It would have been nasty having him and Watt on the same line.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Are you being serious? Clowney's own coach questioned his heart in college. Mario was more dynamic pass rusher in college. Lets not even bring up Marios professional stats because then it becomes an even bigger blunder at 1-1 since Mario is fast approaching 100 sacks on his career. A couple more good seasons and he will start being mentioned as an all time pass rusher. Provide link of him not being a good teammate? I thin thats just rhetoric on your part. So you have to dig into his personal life to throw shade at him? Okay.

Jadeveon Clowney is facing single coverage far too often with all the attention Watt draws to be this inefficient getting to the passer. I didnt want an good edge setter at 1-1, that could have been addressed in the 5th round.

Too bad that we couldnt hold onto Mario. It would have been nasty having him and Watt on the same line.
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LOL "fast approaching". Mario has been in the league 10 years and has 96 sacks. That is 9.6 sacks a season. He had 5 sacks last season. A 10 sack season this year would move him to tied for 25th all time with Trace Armstrong. Two more 10 sack seasons would not even put him in the top 20 all time. No one is talking about Mario in the all time discussions.

It's cool if you don't like the Clowney pick and never will like anything he does on the field. But propping up Mario Williams to make Clowney look bad? That's getting desperate man.

Oh, how many sacks did Mario have his first season? That's right. 4.5
 
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