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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

sandman said:
Accuracy? Two of his three pro starts he has been under 50%. How has he matured in three games as a pro? Pretty sure he lost on Sunday and his team is 1-2, so if he is a winner then Mallett is a winner.
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The Bucs were a 2-14 team last year. Are you expecting them to be 3-0? He is a rookie QB. If he was a Texan we all would be accentuating the positives and looking at the hope he brings. Instead, you are trying to win an argument and trying to pull out all the negatives.
 
TexansFight said:
The Bucs were a 2-14 team last year. Are you expecting them to be 3-0? He is a rookie QB. If he was a Texan we all would be accentuating the positives and looking at the hope he brings. Instead, you are trying to win an argument and trying to pull out all the negatives.
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And you don't think you're downplaying Mallett because he's a Texan?
 
Mollywhopper said:
And you don't think you're downplaying Mallett because he's a Texan?
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I'm not downplaying Mallett. I like the tools that Winston has a lot better. We should ride with Mallett through the rest of the season to see if we have anything. Let him sling the ball downfield to open up the running game and intermediate routes. Remove the handcuffs and let's roll. If he is not the guy at least we know and can draft the guy this year.
 
TexansFight said:
The Bucs were a 2-14 team last year. Are you expecting them to be 3-0? He is a rookie QB. If he was a Texan we all would be accentuating the positives and looking at the hope he brings. Instead, you are trying to win an argument and trying to pull out all the negatives.
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Your the one who said he was accurate, mature and a winner. Only one of those is an intangible. The two that can actually be measured do not support your premise.
 
Texecutioner said:
Complete myth. We haven't attracted flies to **** with Watt being here as far as FA goes. Not his fault, but there has been nothing that has happened to suggest this. IT doesn't matter any way, when your GM is the tin man who has always been anti free agency.
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GM sit by and allowed Dallas to grab up Collins which is starting on their OL.
 
TexansFight said:
Winston looked good. Ask anyone with an eye for talent and they would agree with me. A couple of calls and kicks going the other way and they would have won. I love the throws he made to Evans. The guy has a great arm and is accurate. He seems to have matured and is a winner. I would trade for him in a heartbeat. There is a reason he was a consensus 1-1 pick draft grade.
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He wasn't the consensus 1 1 pick. He's looked like a rookie turnover machine so fat. His qb rating is somewhere in the low 40s. Lol don't quit your day job
 
IDEXAN said:
Smith and 30 other NFL GMs that is. But speaking of the OL, you still gotta give Smith credit for finding some street FAs to play vs TB after most of the OL went down.
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No you don't. IDEXAN you could've found street FAs to line up to play TB and who's to say you couldn't have done a better job.
 
infantrycak said:
Part of the equation to me is Rogers like Brady could still be playing at or very close to the top of his game at 38. JJ may still be a very good player at 30-35 but he won't be the same player we see now.
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If I were a GM you most likely convinced me.
 
infantrycak said:
I see the concern. But he's 31 right now, given the examples of Brady 38, Brees 36 and Manning 39 he could easily play another 7 years.

JJ is 26. Odds are he doesn't play long after 33.
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Do you really want to throw in Brees right now? He is having a lot of trouble doing it without help. Could the TEAM really MATTER?

ps The best young QB - Oliver's Kid just pulled out his first win like we did. Of course his TEAM didn't have ANYTHING to do with it.

Take THAT you QB's are EVERYTHING crowd!
 
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Texecutioner said:
Complete myth. We haven't attracted flies to **** with Watt being here as far as FA goes. Not his fault, but there has been nothing that has happened to suggest this. IT doesn't matter any way, when your GM is the tin man who has always been anti free agency.
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~I'm sure Watt had nothing to do with Wilfork choosing Houston.~:sarcasm:
 
infantrycak said:
Anyone not ignoring the topic of conversation would.
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The conversation had moved from the topic, but I was responding to the direction the thread is moving. Thanks for your totally off topic snide remark. I thought I was beginning to lose my touch.
 
TexansFight said:
I just disagree. I would be a lot more optimistic and happy if the Texans had a top notch QB prospect in Jameis than Watt. A good QB masks a lot of deficiencies and they are the ones that points on the board which is the name of the game. Watt might be the best player in the game (I think it's Rodgers hands down), he just does not help us win like Jameis could. I find it hard to believe you can't see the same thing. QBs are worth more than a defensive lineman no matter how good the lineman.
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We don't know how good Winston will be after only 3 games (you guys are acting like he has accomplished something in the NFL). That's trading a lot of talent for possible potential. And if Winston was to bust we would then become the new Browns. No thank you.
 
TexansFight said:
Winston looked good. Ask anyone with an eye for talent and they would agree with me. A couple of calls and kicks going the other way and they would have won. I love the throws he made to Evans. The guy has a great arm and is accurate. He seems to have matured and is a winner. I would trade for him in a heartbeat. There is a reason he was a consensus 1-1 pick draft grade.
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Along with JaMarcus Russell.....
 
So Marshall, are you going to start the New New New JaDeveon Clowney thread or you happy with the way things are going since you started this one?
 
TexansFight said:
I just disagree. I would be a lot more optimistic and happy if the Texans had a top notch QB prospect in Jameis than Watt. A good QB masks a lot of deficiencies and they are the ones that points on the board which is the name of the game. Watt might be the best player in the game (I think it's Rodgers hands down), he just does not help us win like Jameis could. I find it hard to believe you can't see the same thing. QBs are worth more than a defensive lineman no matter how good the lineman.
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There was a time when we could score with anybody.... our defense couldn't stop anybody. Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have changed that.


I believe we won six games that season. Then we got Jj Watt the next season.
 
thunderkyss said:
There was a time when we could score with anybody.... our defense couldn't stop anybody. Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have changed that.


I believe we won six games that season. Then we got Jj Watt the next season.
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Which teams always seem to be Super Bowl contenders? It's teams with elite to near-elite QBs. We have the best defensive player in football and are nowhere close to being a Super Bowl contender. I would kill to have a Flacco, Romo, Ryan or Rivers on this team not to mention the elite QBs like Rodgers and Brady. Give me the hope of a good QB in a top prospect and I would trade Watt for that guy any day. You think the Cowboys or Ravens would trade Romo or Flacco for Watt? I sure as hell don't. No good GM would.
 
I just want to know when he's gonna sack somebody. I'm getting tired of waiting for it.

I know, I know he's coming off an injury and still essentially a semi-rookie. I'll shut up and wait but I'm really wanting to see him get to the QB. A couple of times last week he came off the line like he was shot out of a canon. He didn't do much after that but get led all the way behind the QB so it's nothing to get excited about yet but he definitely looked like he was showing some progress.

He needs to sack somebody. I don't want to see him here two years in a row (for whatever reason may have caused it) and be sitting on 0 sacks. That's a little close to looking like Vernon Gholston for comfort if you know what I mean.
 
TexansFight said:
Which teams always seem to be Super Bowl contenders? It's teams with elite to near-elite QBs. We have the best defensive player in football and are nowhere close to being a Super Bowl contender. I would kill to have a Flacco, Romo, Ryan or Rivers on this team not to mention the elite QBs like Rodgers and Brady. Give me the hope of a good QB in a top prospect and I would trade Watt for that guy any day. You think the Cowboys or Ravens would trade Romo or Flacco for Watt? I sure as hell don't. No good GM would.
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The only smart play in building a team is to find a top 10-12 QB, Schaub level or better.
 
PapaL said:
Why do all Clowney threads end up in some brouhaha?
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Because there's really not much to say about the Clowney yet.
He should probably be a side track in someone else's thread rather than having several threads dedicated to him that veer off.
 
Also, to further refute thunderkyss' point of view, look at the Buffalo Bills. They have one of the best rosters top to bottom in the league. What is holding them back? That's right, they are shaky at QB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
dream_team said:
Anti-FA???

Moore, Demps, JJo, Wilfork, Shorts, Washington ...

There's a lot of Rick complaints in here, but this is a new one.
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Another laughable list of guys. Every team in the league picks up guys like this for their team. They have to. This isn't anything to write home about. I'm talking about big moves to change your franchise when opportunities are there. Real opportunities. The phony Rick Smith arguments have got to stop. Dragging out a bunch names like this to defend his constant "I only want to build through the draft" mentality was one thing when he was 3 years into this team, but he has been here going on 10 years now. He has said it himself that he mainly only wants to build through the draft. That has always been his philosophy, and he is terrible at drafting. Rick Smith will always go after the FA's that are like on the 3rd tier. He'll also never trade up high to get that franchise position player when we need it. You'll probably never see a great QB in Houston with him here unless we luck into another top 3 pick and an Andrew Luck type of guy falls in our lap. Otherwise, Rick Smith will never move heaven and earth to go out and get that guy.
 
Texecutioner said:
Another laughable list of guys. Every team in the league picks up guys like this for their team. They have to. This isn't anything to write home about. I'm talking about big moves to change your franchise when opportunities are there. Real opportunities. The phony Rick Smith arguments have got to stop. Dragging out a bunch names like this to defend his constant "I only want to build through the draft" mentality was one thing when he was 3 years into this team, but he has been here going on 10 years now. He has said it himself that he mainly only wants to build through the draft. That has always been his philosophy, and he is terrible at drafting. Rick Smith will always go after the FA's that are like on the 3rd tier. He'll also never trade up high to get that franchise position player when we need it. You'll probably never see a great QB in Houston with him here unless we luck into another top 3 pick and an Andrew Luck type of guy falls in our lap. Otherwise, Rick Smith will never move heaven and earth to go out and get that guy.
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So what big moves happened this off season in the FA market that the Texans failed to be a player in? Honest question.
 
Texecutioner said:
Another laughable list of guys. Every team in the league picks up guys like this for their team. They have to. This isn't anything to write home about. I'm talking about big moves to change your franchise when opportunities are there. Real opportunities. The phony Rick Smith arguments have got to stop. Dragging out a bunch names like this to defend his constant "I only want to build through the draft" mentality was one thing when he was 3 years into this team, but he has been here going on 10 years now. He has said it himself that he mainly only wants to build through the draft. That has always been his philosophy, and he is terrible at drafting. Rick Smith will always go after the FA's that are like on the 3rd tier. He'll also never trade up high to get that franchise position player when we need it. You'll probably never see a great QB in Houston with him here unless we luck into another top 3 pick and an Andrew Luck type of guy falls in our lap. Otherwise, Rick Smith will never move heaven and earth to go out and get that guy.
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Just about every team in this league builds through the draft. It's extremely hard to build a team off FA because they're extremely expensive. Miami had to pay Suh more than Watt! No thanks to overpaying just to attract a top FA (except if he's a QB).
 
TexansFight said:
Also, to further refute thunderkyss' point of view, look at the Buffalo Bills. They have one of the best rosters top to bottom in the league. What is holding them back? That's right, they are shaky at QB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I see where the mix up here is.

You think my point is that you don't need a top QB to win in this league.

That's not my point. I never said that.

I wouldn't trade Jj Watt for Jameis Winston on the chance that he'll become a top 10 QB in this league.

I will trade Jj Watt for a top 5 QB.

I will not trade Jj Watt for a guy who is currently below Ryan Fitzpatrick.
 
Texecutioner said:
Are you actually trying to use a 35 year old beaten up DT that was possibly going into retirement as an example? Stop wasting people's time with argument attempts like this.
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Can't admit being wrong. Not unexpected. Snarly comment. Absolutely expected.
 
sandman said:
So what big moves happened this off season in the FA market that the Texans failed to be a player in? Honest question.
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Not even sure why I bother sometimes, but if you have to ask that question then I'm not sure why we're talking.

Try Phillip Rivers.
 
Marshall said:
Can't admit being wrong. Not unexpected. Snarly comment. Absolutely expected.
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:kubepalm:

No, the problem is that you come in here with nothing every time. Bringing up some aging DT that is likely in his last season and has been injury prone the last few years due to his age and his body type is one of the dumbest attempts you could have tried. And you bringing up "ONE GUY" within 4 years makes my point completely, but you aren't smart enough to even understand that. You'd rather just troll out some random nonsense and act like Wilfork is some sort of hashtag point. And if you paid any attention to the NFL, you'd likely pick up on the fact that we're kind of NE light over here, so naturally we're going to get a lot of their old players and coaches that have relationships with OB and ex teammates like Vrabel. Good golly almighty, Wilfork ended up on a team with a bunch of Patriots coaches! Who would have called that? Only every media pundit that discussed Wilfork's potential destinations other than NE when FA started.
 
infantrycak said:
Try not a free agent.
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FA has a ton to do with trades? Do I have to spell that part out? Are trades not one of the biggest parts about making deals in the NFL? Rick Smith has never owned guys in trades. He is never around to take advantage of teams when blood is in the water.

Rivers may not have been a FA, but he was damn sure available at one point as it was obvious that he wanted out due to the team not making moves to get better, and due to the likelihood of them moving to L.A. where he clearly has stated he doesn't want to play. SD even put out fillers as to what the would entertain, and Tennessee was in some serious talks for a while and decided on Marriota.

The Texans have a team ready to go with a franchise QB added to the mix, and it won't ever happen with Rick Smith here as I said before. The only way it does is if we end up back in the top 5 picks and a can't miss guy is there.
 
Texecutioner said:
FA has a ton to do with trades? Do I have to spell that part out?
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The topic was the ability of the Texans to attract FAs. You were asked for FAs.

What you need to do is answer the damn (very simple) question instead of going off on a long-winded rationalizatuon why your trade whiff the 1st time wasn't really inattention or deliberate avoidance.
 
I have Clowney at 3 sacks to this point on 2 conditions. 1) ... We quit shuffling the line based on pre-snap whims, and it's not always Watt - Clowney gets relocated as if he were a freshman. There was a play against the Bucs were Clowney got pushed into being a stand-up 4 tech on the left when he started at a hand down 7-8 on the right, WTF. 2) ... Quit the stunts. They're working about as well as our screens - just stop because it's embarrassing that we can crash 3 rushers into 2 blockers.

We're over-complicating our pass rush to an incredible degree. Why is Simon in Watt's pocket? Watt's already getting 2+ blockers, where's Simon going to go? KISS the rush. Watt and Crick at DE/DT inside - Mercilus and Clowney at DE/OLB wide - and Cushing over the center as a potential rush/read option. We have 3 first round pass rushers ... and go out of our way to complicate rushing the effing quarterback.
 
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Clowney seems to be relatively effective while in the game for now. While I hope for more eventually, I can settle for that as long as he remains uninjured and at least bothers the QBs and RBs. I really wasn't expecting him back this soon anyway, so it's all good for now as long as the re-injury is avoided.

Now from an optimists point of view, I see evidence of a better team struggling with bad gas so to speak. Injuries, including Clowney's, are happening earlier this season, but with the possibility of getting better players back as the season progresses. Being in a weaker division makes staying in the race long enough for that to happen relatively easier.
 
Scooter said:
2) ... Quit the stunts. They're working about as well as our screens - just stop because it's embarrassing that we can crash 3 rushers into 2 blockers.

We're over-complicating our pass rush to an incredible degree.
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I agree to an extent. I'll chalk up a "lack" of pass rush to these, & it's for that reason I expect the defense to get better. Hopefully all that stuff starts to work after they've been doing it a few more weeks.

& when games start to matter (provided we don't dig too big a hole), they'll pay off.
 
I think we're running too many games with him. Leave him on the edge and let him go.

Speaking of dline games. I think Watt has been calling for a lot of these stunts. Has he earned that right? Absolutely, but imo, it seems like every play they're running something
 
HOU-TEX said:
I think we're running too many games with him. Leave him on the edge and let him go.

Speaking of dline games. I think Watt has been calling for a lot of these stunts. Has he earned that right? Absolutely, but imo, it seems like every play they're running something
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It takes more than one player to run a stunt correctly and efficiently (and for both to feel comfortable with it)........and it takes the correct situations. Stunts that are run incorrectly and/or inefficiently will waste a whole lot of time when trying to get to the QB. Watt may be a great player, but I would hope that he does not possess a better handle on the overall picture of decision-making in play calling than Crenell.
 
HOU-TEX said:
I think we're running too many games with him. Leave him on the edge and let him go.

Speaking of dline games. I think Watt has been calling for a lot of these stunts. Has he earned that right? Absolutely, but imo, it seems like every play they're running something
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What makes you think Watt is calling for stunts?
 
infantrycak said:
What makes you think Watt is calling for stunts?
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Obviously I don't know for sure, but iirc, I think he once spoke about how he and Crick talk and plan games quite often during the game. I did a quick little search and didn't find the interview. Maybe I'm nuts. Who knows

To me, it's obvious he has the authority to "pick his biotch" along the oline. I think he was even mic-ed up once when doing it. So, when I see him conversing with Clowney or Crick before a play, then running a stunt with them I think he called it.

I don't have a problem with him calling the games. I just think they're running too many.
 
I think he picks his side within whatever RAC calls. He may lobby for stunts in meetings. I'm a little dubious even on that. Most pass rushers I've heard talk about it aren't overly fond of stunts. But who knows.
 
infantrycak said:
I think he picks his side within whatever RAC calls. He may lobby for stunts in meetings. I'm a little dubious even on that. Most pass rushers I've heard talk about it aren't overly fond of stunts. But who knows.
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Not really definitive, but Crennel mentioned this today

Deepi Sidhu ‏@DeepSlant 47m47 minutes ago

Crennel likes to give players freedom once they understand system. Ability of the player determines how much leeway they have in a play.
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Deepi Sidhu ‏@DeepSlant 47m47 minutes ago

Too much freedom for too many guys can also lead to big holes, so it's a balance, Crennel adds. #Texans
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