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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Texian said:
Yes, he'll be 32 and has 4-5 good years left, if he plays that long.
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Odds are better that Aaron Rodgers will win another Super Bowl or two before Wilson wins another, or Luck gets to a Super Bowl.

You take our team as is, & IMO, Rodgers is the only one that makes us contenders now. Maybe Luck & Wilson will get better, will get as good as Rodgers. Maybe.

& I really like Wilson's game. I respect Luck's game... but neither are in Rodgers class.
 
infantrycak said:
I see the concern. But he's 31 right now, given the examples of Brady 38, Brees 36 and Manning 39 he could easily play another 7 years.

JJ is 26. Odds are he doesn't play long after 33.
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And he didn't start right out of college either. Not sure how big of an effect "tread on the tires" has on a QB, but if it does, it might add a year or two to his longevity. As much as I love JJ Watt, I would trade him for Rodgers without giving it a second thought.
 
thunderkyss said:
A QB having an incredible year on par to Jj Watt's 2014 is nothing at all like a top QB prospect having a good year.

I'd trade Jj Watt straight up for an established top QB in the league; Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees.... but I'm not trading him for Marcus Mariota, Jamies Winston, or Teddy Bridgewater. That's insane. There is no guarantee those guys can help you win a game on par to what Jj Watt does.

For all we know, those guys are the next Matthew Stafford or Ryan Tannehill.
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I'd trade him for Winston in a heart beat.

The thing about the established star qb's you named is that no team is trading those guys for Watt.

And really, those other teams most likely aren't trading their young qb's either.

This team went 2-14 with Watt playing at an amazing level. 9-7 and missing the playoffs with him being an MVP candidate.

I don't think there is a realistic trade scenario involving Watt. He's too valuable to the city on and off the field here and I doubt the team would entertain trade offers unless it was one of the established star qbs you mentioned and those teams wouldn't make that move either.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'd trade him for Winston in a heart beat.

The thing about the established star qb's you named is that no team is trading those guys for Watt.

And really, those other teams most likely aren't trading their young qb's either.

This team went 2-14 with Watt playing at an amazing level. 9-7 and missing the playoffs with him being an MVP candidate.

I don't think there is a realistic trade scenario involving Watt. He's too valuable to the city on and off the field here and I doubt the team would entertain trade offers unless it was one of the established star qbs you mentioned and those teams wouldn't make that move either.
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Trading Watt is an absolute hypothetical. It's almost impossible from the financial standpoint, too. His dead money is almost $28MM.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I'd trade him for Winston in a heart beat.

The thing about the established star qb's you named is that no team is trading those guys for Watt.

And really, those other teams most likely aren't trading their young qb's either.

This team went 2-14 with Watt playing at an amazing level. 9-7 and missing the playoffs with him being an MVP candidate.

I don't think there is a realistic trade scenario involving Watt. He's too valuable to the city on and off the field here and I doubt the team would entertain trade offers unless it was one of the established star qbs you mentioned and those teams wouldn't make that move either.
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& Cam Newton got his team to the play offs with a 7-8-1 record. Winning his division over the likes of Matt Ryan & Drew Brees. Even if your young QB plays well, that's no guarantee of being better than mediocre. Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, James Winston... sorry, they wouldn't make us any better than mediocre. The high end of mediocre, maybe. But mediocre all the same.

Yes. If we had the #1 pick, I'd have drafted Jamies Winston, Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers.

But I'm not trading Jj Watt for any of them.

Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers. That's it.
 
thunderkyss said:
& Cam Newton got his team to the play offs with a 7-8-1 record. Winning his division over the likes of Matt Ryan & Drew Brees. Even if your young QB plays well, that's no guarantee of being better than mediocre. Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, James Winston... sorry, they wouldn't make us any better than mediocre. The high end of mediocre, maybe. But mediocre all the same.

Yes. If we had the #1 pick, I'd have drafted Jamies Winston, Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers.

But I'm not trading Jj Watt for any of them.

Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers. That's it.
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Not Tom Brady. He's great, but he's old. Just can't do it. Luck, Rodgers - 100% yes. Others, I'm very "wishy-washy" on.
 
thunderkyss said:
& Cam Newton got his team to the play offs with a 7-8-1 record. Winning his division over the likes of Matt Ryan & Drew Brees. Even if your young QB plays well, that's no guarantee of being better than mediocre. Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, James Winston... sorry, they wouldn't make us any better than mediocre. The high end of mediocre, maybe. But mediocre all the same.

Yes. If we had the #1 pick, I'd have drafted Jamies Winston, Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers.

But I'm not trading Jj Watt for any of them.

Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers. That's it.
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It's cool. Agree to disagree.
 
Some people are still interested in trading Watt for QB when jury is still out for Mallett. Not to mention, this thread title is JaDeveon Clowney. If you so interested in trading Watt, why not start a new thread titled Trade Watt for QB or something? The man (Watt) doing so much for the Texans (multiple 20+ sacks season) and talking about trading for QB is just insane to me. Why don't we appreciate what we have (NFL #1 player) on our team.
 
Sonny said:
Brady. Really?

I'm not saying he's not great and may have a couple good years left but I'm keeping Watt for another 10+ years.
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Face it, Watt is not getting us anywhere near the superbowl as good as he is. Brady gives us a couple years at least to get to the SB. Not saying I would do this 1:1 but if they add something, a 2nd rounder I'd do it.
 
EllisUnit said:
Trade Watt for an unproven rookie ? No thank you.
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Then you will be year after year waiting while Watt does more of those commercials, and oh yea he'll play good defense, even great defense and maybe win some more defensive player of year awards but he won't lead you to a SB. You need a QB to do that. Watts greatest value is not as a stud defensive lineman, it's as a blue-chip component of some kind of package of players and/or Draft picks to land a QB who has the "perceived" potential to take you to the SB.
Nobody is gonna trade a proven elite QB like Luck or Rogers, ain't gonna happen. Just gonna have to take some chances on, yea, something like an unproven rookie, something like a Jamis Winston.
Oh after watching last nights game, I think I like having Mallet better than Alex Smith, so yea for 2015, like somebody else said lets let this Mallet thing play out.
 
IDEXAN said:
Then you will be year after year waiting while Watt does more of those commercials, and oh yea he'll play good defense, even great defense and maybe win some more defensive player of year awards but he won't lead you to a SB. You need a QB to do that.

Oh after watching last nights game, I think I like having Mallet better than Alex Smith, so yea for 2015, like somebody else said lets let this Mallet thing play out.
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A really good QB is needed to get to & win a Super Bowl. No one disagrees with that. We don't agree that we should trade the best defensive player in the game for a QB who might be a really good QB, or might be an average QB (Alex Smith) or might be a bust (Vince Young).

& you want to trade him for the chance that the QB might be that good. That doesn't make sense. & not doing it doesn't mean we'll never have that guy. Lots of Super Bowl winning QBs weren't drafted with the #1 overall pick. Lots of #1 overall... top 5 picks that haven't & won't sniff a Super Bowl.

& I'm not talking about Tom Brady. I'm talking about Roethlisberger won two Super Bowls, he was drafted with the 11th overall pick, which we may very well get in 2016. If not, it won't be prohibitive to trade up to 11th.

Aaron Rodgers won a Super Bowl, & he was drafted with the 24th overall.

Drew Brees... 33rd overall

Jake Delhomme... remember him. He didn't win, but he was there.

Kurt Warner...

But anyway. There are QBs we'd trade Jj for. Many of us won't do the deal for Jameis Winston.
 
infantrycak said:
Start with bad facts, end with bad conclusions.

Clowney was injured in the 4th game. Don't remember the quarter.
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I can admit when I'm wrong...but they did take him out of game #1 because of his foot in the first quarter and he didn't return for the rest of the game? They brought him back and game 4 was when he left for the season.
 
thunderkyss said:
A really good QB is needed to get to & win a Super Bowl. No one disagrees with that. We don't agree that we should trade the best defensive player in the game for a QB who might be a really good QB, or might be an average QB (Alex Smith) or might be a bust (Vince Young).

& you want to trade him for the chance that the QB might be that good. That doesn't make sense. & not doing it doesn't mean we'll never have that guy. Lots of Super Bowl winning QBs weren't drafted with the #1 overall pick. Lots of #1 overall... top 5 picks that haven't & won't sniff a Super Bowl.

& I'm not talking about Tom Brady. I'm talking about Roethlisberger won two Super Bowls, he was drafted with the 11th overall pick, which we may very well get in 2016. If not, it won't be prohibitive to trade up to 11th.

Aaron Rodgers won a Super Bowl, & he was drafted with the 24th overall.

Drew Brees... 33rd overall

Jake Delhomme... remember him. He didn't win, but he was there.

Kurt Warner...

But anyway. There are QBs we'd trade Jj for. Many of us won't do the deal for Jameis Winston.
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So you are flat telling me that if TB approched us with their first round pick in March of this year and
said it would cost you JJ, you would have told them to go take a hike ?
 
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IDEXAN said:
So you are flat telling me that if TB approched us with their first round pick in March of this year and
said it would cost you JJ, you would have told them to go take a hike ?
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I wouldn't and i'll tell you why, having Watt here is a good recruiting tool for future FA players as well.
 
IDEXAN said:
So you are flat telling me that if TB approched us with their first round pick in March of this year and
said it would cost you JJ, you would have told them to go take a hike ?
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Yes. The best player in the NFL is not worth one draft pick. Draft picks bust. All the time. Watt is worth multiple current all-pros. Not a potential all-pro or a damn draft pick. Fans put waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too much stock into the worth of a draft pick because it represents potential and upside and fans are obsessed with potential and upside.
 
infantrycak said:
Part of the equation to me is Rogers like Brady could still be playing at or very close to the top of his game at 38. JJ may still be a very good player at 30-35 but he won't be the same player we see now.
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My guess is before any significant decline in his performance, he will have been drawn to the glitter of Hollywood.
 
IDEXAN said:
So you are flat telling me that if TB approched us with their first round pick in March of this year and
said it would cost you JJ, you would have told them to go take a hike ?
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Well if he won't I will. I would not have traded JJ for either Mariota or Winston.
 
IDEXAN said:
So you are flat telling me that if TB approched us with their first round pick in March of this year and
said it would cost you JJ, you would have told them to go take a hike ?
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I'd give them Jadaveon Clowney for Winston straight up. Not Jj. I'd give them Jd & XSF for Winston. But not Jj Watt.
 
EllisUnit said:
I wouldn't and i'll tell you why, having Watt here is a good recruiting tool for future FA players as well.
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Complete myth. We haven't attracted flies to **** with Watt being here as far as FA goes. Not his fault, but there has been nothing that has happened to suggest this. IT doesn't matter any way, when your GM is the tin man who has always been anti free agency.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'd give them Jadaveon Clowney for Winston straight up. Not Jj. I'd give them Jd & XSF for Winston. But not Jj Watt.
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Well I guess you would ! I'm maybe the biggest Clowney booster on this Board, but I realize all too well that he's damaged goods after his microfracture surgery because his NFL career very likely has been truncated.
 
IDEXAN said:
Well I guess you would ! I'm maybe the biggest Clowney booster on this Board, but I realize all too well that he's damaged goods after his microfracture surgery because his NFL career very likely has been truncated.
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He was a bust his last year in college too.
 
Texecutioner said:
Complete myth. We haven't attracted flies to **** with Watt being here as far as FA goes. Not his fault, but there has been nothing that has happened to suggest this. IT doesn't matter any way, when your GM is the tin man who has always been anti free agency.
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I agree generally the effect is small or none, but I believe Wilfork mentioned it in his considerations.
 
Texecutioner said:
Complete myth. We haven't attracted flies to **** with Watt being here as far as FA goes. Not his fault, but there has been nothing that has happened to suggest this. IT doesn't matter any way, when your GM is the tin man who has always been anti free agency.
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Anti-FA???

Moore, Demps, JJo, Wilfork, Shorts, Washington ...

There's a lot of Rick complaints in here, but this is a new one.
 
thunderkyss said:
& Cam Newton got his team to the play offs with a 7-8-1 record. Winning his division over the likes of Matt Ryan & Drew Brees. Even if your young QB plays well, that's no guarantee of being better than mediocre. Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, James Winston... sorry, they wouldn't make us any better than mediocre. The high end of mediocre, maybe. But mediocre all the same.

Yes. If we had the #1 pick, I'd have drafted Jamies Winston, Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers.

But I'm not trading Jj Watt for any of them.

Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers. That's it.
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You are dead wrong. I would roll with any of those QBs and feel like we would be a legit playoff team with the same roster. I would kill to have any of those QBs. You are out of your mind if you don't think Matty Ice or Jameis would markedly improve our offense which would make us a legit threat to win our division and make some noise in the playoffs. I just wish they would fire Dick Smith and promote Brian Gaine instead.
 
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Texecutioner said:
Complete myth. We haven't attracted flies to **** with Watt being here as far as FA goes. Not his fault, but there has been nothing that has happened to suggest this. IT doesn't matter any way, when your GM is the tin man who has always been anti free agency.
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I did say future ;) meaning it hasn't happened yet.
 
TexansFight said:
You are dead wrong. I would roll with any of those QBs and feel like we would be a legit playoff team with the same roster. I would kill to have any of those QBs. You are out of your mind if you don't think Matty Ice or Jameus would markedly improve our offense.
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Luck has looked like crap this season, (I KNOW IT's ONE SEASON), Winston was blown out by the Titans (I KNOW HIS FIRST GAME, BUT THEN LOST TO THE 0-2 TEXANS) and Matt Ryan (WELL JULIO JONES MAKES ANY QB LOOK GOOD) How many SBs has Matt Ryan won ?

No not just any QB can step in here and make us a legit play off team.

And Winston come on man, i need to see more than 3 games before i can say if he would make us legit or not. Mallet and Winston have played around the same amount of games TBH.
 
EllisUnit said:
Luck has looked like crap this season, (I KNOW IT's ONE SEASON), Winston was blown out by the Titans (I KNOW HIS FIRST GAME, BUT THEN LOST TO THE 0-2 TEXANS) and Matt Ryan (WELL JULIO JONES MAKES ANY QB LOOK GOOD) How many SBs has Matt Ryan won ?

No not just any QB can step in here and make us a legit play off team.

And Winston come on man, i need to see more than 3 games before i can say if he would make us legit or not. Mallet and Winston have played around the same amount of games TBH.
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I was very impressed by what I saw from Winston. His pocket presence and anticipatory throws to his receivers was impressive and a lot better than Mallett's. He is going to be a top notch QB in this league.
 
TexansFight said:
I was very impressed by what I saw from Winston. His pocket presence and anticipatory throws to his receivers was impressive and a lot better than Mallett's. He is going to be a top notch QB in this league.
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It also appeared he had really good protection. They contained Watt, Clowney and Vince. Dude had all day to throw at times, so i would hope he made good throws. All i'm saying is we have seen way to many 1st round busts, and a few have looked good their first few seasons. NOT SAYING HE WILL BE A BUST bust to lose the best player in the NFL to a rookie who we dont know how he will turn out is way to risky IMO.
 
TexansFight said:
I was very impressed by what I saw from Winston. His pocket presence and anticipatory throws to his receivers was impressive and a lot better than Mallett's. He is going to be a top notch QB in this league.
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Were you very impressed with what you saw from Mallett?

Seeing as Mallett had the better game.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Were you very impressed with what you saw from Mallett?

Seeing as Mallett had the better game.
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No I wasn't very impressed by Mallett. He had a better game than he did against Carolina. A lot of his balls were too low which prevented any run after the catch. Frankly, the game plan doesn't fit him. He is a gunslinger not a game manager. Let the guy throw downfield damn it.
 
You'd have to be crazy to give up JJ for Winston right now. At this point Winston is all potential. You don't give up an HOF defender in his prime for a young QB with potential who has looked like crap so far. I'd rather give up a 3rd rounder or something for his backup (Glennon). JJ is only an option with a proven winner at QB. Brady & A-Rod are really the only guys I'd consider. Peyton is close to being done, Big Ben is great but he looks half dead, he's shot. Russell Wilson is a system QB, he's not gonna function in any other offense. Not that well anyway. Luck & Matt Ryan I'd consider though. Why are we even talking about this? Like there is even a remote chance this could happen. The odds of Watt quitting football and becoming a professional juggler somewhere in India are way higher.

Back to Clowney: The injury stuff sort of killed most of his potential IMO. He still has Pro Bowl upside I think but he had HOF potential. He's not superhuman anymore, he kinda looks slow and old at times, other times you still see that rare ability flash a little at times. The stuff we were hoping to see on most snaps, not just once per game.
 
TexansFight said:
No I wasn't very impressed by Mallett. He had a better game than he did against Carolina. A lot of his balls were too low which prevented any run after the catch. Frankly, the game plan doesn't fit him. He is a gunslinger not a game manager. Let the guy throw downfield damn it.
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You were impressed with the guy who didn't have as good a game ... ok, just checking.
 
EllisUnit said:
It also appeared he had really good protection. They contained Watt, Clowney and Vince. Dude had all day to throw at times, so i would hope he made good throws. All i'm saying is we have seen way to many 1st round busts, and a few have looked good their first few seasons. NOT SAYING HE WILL BE A BUST bust to lose the best player in the NFL to a rookie who we dont know how he will turn out is way to risky IMO.
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I just disagree. I would be a lot more optimistic and happy if the Texans had a top notch QB prospect in Jameis than Watt. A good QB masks a lot of deficiencies and they are the ones that points on the board which is the name of the game. Watt might be the best player in the game (I think it's Rodgers hands down), he just does not help us win like Jameis could. I find it hard to believe you can't see the same thing. QBs are worth more than a defensive lineman no matter how good the lineman.
 
Mollywhopper said:
You were impressed with the guy who didn't have as good a game ... ok, just checking.
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Winston looked good. Ask anyone with an eye for talent and they would agree with me. A couple of calls and kicks going the other way and they would have won. I love the throws he made to Evans. The guy has a great arm and is accurate. He seems to have matured and is a winner. I would trade for him in a heartbeat. There is a reason he was a consensus 1-1 pick draft grade.
 
TexansFight said:
Winston looked good. Ask anyone with an eye for talent and they would agree with me. A couple of calls and kicks going the other way and they would have won. I love the throws he made to Evans. The guy has a great arm and is accurate. He seems to have matured and is a winner. I would trade for him in a heartbeat. There is a reason he was a consensus 1-1 pick draft grade.
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I never said Winston looked particularly poor.
 
TexansFight said:
Winston looked good. Ask anyone with an eye for talent and they would agree with me. A couple of calls and kicks going the other way and they would have won. I love the throws he made to Evans. The guy has a great arm and is accurate. He seems to have matured and is a winner. I would trade for him in a heartbeat. There is a reason he was a consensus 1-1 pick draft grade.
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Accuracy? Two of his three pro starts he has been under 50%. How has he matured in three games as a pro? Pretty sure he lost on Sunday and his team is 1-2, so if he is a winner then Mallett is a winner.
 
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