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The improbable improvement of Kareem Jackson

EllisUnit said:
Dude come on.
are you telling me a CB wont get flagged for PI more often than not if he dont turn to locate the ball ??? This right here is common knowledge that even the least interested fan knows.
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Dude, once again, you are generalizing things!

Well, obviously, you don't know it (and I'm saying this without preconception, etc.)

You are taking into account less than you should have while generalizing things more than you should have.
 
76Texan said:
Dude, once again, you are generalizing things!

Well, obviously, you don't know it (and I'm saying this without preconception, etc.)

You are taking into account less than you should have while generalizing things more than you should have.
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It is the NFL where rules are "generally" the same. I am not saying KJ hasnt improved cause honestly i think he has, but he needs to turn his head, cause the Refs regardless of it was actually PI or not will call it 9 out of 10 times if the DB has his back to the ball hand fighting with a WR.
 
EU, let me tell something more in a certain term that is more acceptable to you.
Jason Allen is currently a back-up and Kareem Jackson is a starter.

There would be at least 3 coaching staffs that made a mistake if they were you.
 
EllisUnit said:
It is the NFL where rules are "generally" the same. I am not saying KJ hasnt improved cause honestly i think he has, but he needs to turn his head, cause the Refs regardless of it was actually PI or not will call it 9 out of 10 times if the DB has his back to the ball hand fighting with a WR.
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In this instance, you're not generalizing things, but you're picking and choosing.

You need to go back and read every single post in this thread (and perhaps some in other threads as well).

After that, you can take it straight to Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips.
 
76Texan said:
EU, let me tell something more in a certain term that is more acceptable to you.
Jason Allen is currently a back-up and Kareem Jackson is a starter.

There would be at least 3 coaching staffs that made a mistake if they were you.
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J. Allen was good against the deep ball. Had a knack for making a play on the ball, was good at locating the ball. Never said he was the best CB in the league. Though he did split time with KJ the whole time he was here. He was going to get money from some team, we cutt Winston, traded demeco, released Jacoby so i doubt we were going to resign Allen for what he got offered from other teams.

And ur avoiding my question am i right or wrong about the PI calls on DBs who have their backs to the ball ?
 
76Texan said:
In this instance, you're not generalizing things, but you're picking and choosing.

You need to go back and read every single post in this thread (and perhaps some in other threads as well).

After that, you can take it straight to Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips.
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I'm not picking and choosing. I am stating what happens to ALL DBs around the NFL who have their backs to the ball. (KJ always has his back to the ball on deep balls) It's a valid question/concern.
 
Now, I need to remind you EU, that I have a brother-in-law (who is a year older than I am) that is quite the KJ's hater.

I'm very tight with him, nonetheless.
We watched a lot of Oilers footballs together.
I watched most Texans games with him.

I understand the criticism first hand, so to speak.
 
76Texan said:
Now, I need to remind you EU, that I have a brother-in-law (who is a year older than I am) that is quite the KJ's hater.

I'm very tight with him, nonetheless.
We watched a lot of Oilers footballs together.
I watched most Texans games with him.

I understand the criticism first hand, so to speak.
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HAHA well i dont hate on KJ like i used to, infact like i said he has greatly improved since his rookie campaign, i just think theres a few things he needs to improve on. Now his short passing game and run defense are GREAT. Its just his deep coverage that needs improvment IMO.
 
EllisUnit said:
It is the NFL where rules are "generally" the same. I am not saying KJ hasnt improved cause honestly i think he has, but he needs to turn his head, cause the Refs regardless of it was actually PI or not will call it 9 out of 10 times if the DB has his back to the ball hand fighting with a WR.
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Not nine times out of 10. But you do have a point. However, there is more to turning your head to avoiding a PI. As long as the DB does not touch the receiver before the ball gets there.

Let's imagine, that Kj turns his head to locate the ball, but the ball sails over his head, as he turns. He doesn't see the ball. It is in the receivers hands. The receiver is now running towards the endzone as Kj turns back towards the receiver.

That's what we want to prevent. So, let's say the defense called expects #25 to gaurd against a free release to the inside. I don't know, assume the DC watched a lot of film on the opposing teams tendencies & because of the down & distance, he wants Kj to play that slant.

However, the receiver never goes inside, instead he releases to the big side of the field, away from the CB, away from the safety. Now the CB is in a trail position. He still thinks it will be something short & quick, so he's guarding against a curl or a quick out.

Then he sees the receiver's hands go up, he sees the eyes go up.

That ball is coming, he knows that, but he has no idea how long ago the ball was thrown (his back is to the QB). He could turn his head & locate the ball. Or, he can get his hands up, in the projected path of the ball. If he keeps his eyes on the receiver, he can quickly tackle him or smack his arms if he notices the receiver catch the ball.
 
Fiddler said:
Not nine times out of 10. But you do have a point. However, there is more to turning your head to avoiding a PI. As long as the DB does not touch the receiver before the ball gets there.

Let's imagine, that Kj turns his head to locate the ball, but the ball sails over his head, as he turns. He doesn't see the ball. It is in the receivers hands. The receiver is now running towards the endzone as Kj turns back towards the receiver.

That's what we want to prevent. So, let's say the defense called expects #25 to gaurd against a free release to the inside. I don't know, assume the DC watched a lot of film on the opposing teams tendencies & because of the down & distance, he wants Kj to play that slant.

However, the receiver never goes inside, instead he releases to the big side of the field, away from the CB, away from the safety. Now the CB is in a trail position. He still thinks it will be something short & quick, so he's guarding against a curl or a quick out.

Then he sees the receiver's hands go up, he sees the eyes go up.

That ball is coming, he knows that, but he has no idea how long ago the ball was thrown (his back is to the QB). He could turn his head & locate the ball. Or, he can get his hands up, in the projected path of the ball. If he keeps his eyes on the receiver, he can quickly tackle him or smack his arms if he notices the receiver catch the ball.
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The angle the ref usually has is either in front our behind the WR/DB. They make a lot of bad PI calls. I'm not saying it will be fault but its one of those things that Refs see and call without actually seeing if the DB was touching the WR or not.

We have ALl send some BAD PI calls. And either way mostly its because The DB had his back to the ball and never tried to locate it.
 
EllisUnit said:
J. Allen was good against the deep ball. Had a knack for making a play on the ball, was good at locating the ball. Never said he was the best CB in the league. Though he did split time with KJ the whole time he was here. He was going to get money from some team, we cutt Winston, traded demeco, released Jacoby so i doubt we were going to resign Allen for what he got offered from other teams.

And ur avoiding my question am i right or wrong about the PI calls on DBs who have their backs to the ball ?
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EllisUnit said:
I'm not picking and choosing. I am stating what happens to ALL DBs around the NFL who have their backs to the ball. (KJ always has his back to the ball on deep balls) It's a valid question/concern.
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You need to be more specific on these things.

Every play is different.

Yes, it is true that the call would go against the DB when he doesn't look back at the ball (when he actually commit PI in the first place).

I can guarantee with you that KJ has been a very good cover corner.
He's been tight with the receiver and in the long run, it will not be easy to call PI on him the longer he's in the league.
 
EllisUnit said:
The angle the ref usually has is either in front our behind the WR/DB. They make a lot of bad PI calls. I'm not saying it will be fault but its one of those things that Refs see and call without actually seeing if the DB was touching the WR or not.

We have ALl send some BAD PI calls. And either way mostly its because The DB had his back to the ball and never tried to locate it.
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still this
 
EllisUnit said:
our just get pass interference called on him A LOT, which is what will happen
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Code: 
Routt, Stanford	        DB	Oak	7	
Peterson, Patrick	DB	Ari	6
Browner, Brandon	DB	Sea	5
Haden, Joe	        DB	Cle	5	
Florence, Drayton	DB	Buf	4
Wright, Eric	        DB	Det	4
In 2011 KJ and 13 other DBs (Ball was one) had 3 PIs, the above had more.
 
TejasTom said:
Code: 
Routt, Stanford	        DB	Oak	7	
Peterson, Patrick	DB	Ari	6
Browner, Brandon	DB	Sea	5
Haden, Joe	        DB	Cle	5	
Florence, Drayton	DB	Buf	4
Wright, Eric	        DB	Det	4
In 2011 KJ and 13 other DBs (Ball was one) had 3 PIs, the above had more.
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In 2011 we also pressured the QB A LOT not much time for deep balls really. I am only talking about deep balls when it comes to KJ. He is a good short to medium cover CB
 
EllisUnit said:
The angle the ref usually has is either in front our behind the WR/DB. They make a lot of bad PI calls. I'm not saying it will be fault but its one of those things that Refs see and call without actually seeing if the DB was touching the WR or not.

We have ALl send some BAD PI calls. And either way mostly its because The DB had his back to the ball and never tried to locate it.
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And if a ref makes a bad call, no coach in the NFL is going to tell his player to do anything differently.
 
EllisUnit said:
HAHA well i dont hate on KJ like i used to, infact like i said he has greatly improved since his rookie campaign, i just think theres a few things he needs to improve on. Now his short passing game and run defense are GREAT. Its just his deep coverage that needs improvment IMO.
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Well, just to know that I'm not a blind defender.

You and my brother-in-law will make a pair.

Sure, there are legitimate questions here and there.

He came to pretty much the same conclusion (at the same moments in time).

Still question on certain part of his game, and the rest.

I've been telling you the same thing as I've been telling my tight brother-in-law of some 27 years.
I told him the same exact thing about Chris Myers before; I'm no stranger to these things.

At the end of the day, I will still be watching a lot of Texans games with him; that is not going to change, I'm sure of it, LOL!
 
76Texan said:
Well, just to know that I'm not a blind defender.

You and my brother-in-law will make a pair.

Sure, there are legitimate questions here and there.

He came to pretty much the same conclusion (at the same moments in time).

Still question on certain part of his game, and the rest.

I've been telling you the same thing as I've been telling my tight brother-in-law of some 27 years.
I told him the same exact thing about Chris Myers before; I'm no stranger to these things.

At the end of the day, I will still be watching a lot of Texans games with him; that is not going to change, I'm sure of it, LOL!
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HAHA yeah guess we'll never agree on KJ. Oh well we're both still texans fans at the end of the day.
 
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.
 
steelbtexan said:
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.
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Remember that crow stew we talked about? It's still brewing..it's in the crock pot. We gon throw some spice in there. Ooh Wee it's gon be good!
 
steelbtexan said:
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.
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LOL.. you guys think every corner that gets picked in the first round is another hall of famer.

KJ has:
- great tackling ability
- above average short to middle game.
- below to average long game, and seems to be improving.

He fits very well in our high pressure defense, very similar to what he played in college. What more do you want, do you want him to drop a beer on you in the stands while he's picking off the ball and running it back for a touchdown?

JJ has had his share of really bad plays you could nitpick to death, preseason he was beat twice on the same play! FIRE HIM!
 
silvrhand said:
LOL.. you guys think every corner that gets picked in the first round is another hall of famer.

KJ has:
- great tackling ability
- above average short to middle game.
- below to average long game, and seems to be improving.

He fits very well in our high pressure defense, very similar to what he played in college. What more do you want, do you want him to drop a beer on you in the stands while he's picking off the ball and running it back for a touchdown?

JJ has had his share of really bad plays you could nitpick to death, preseason he was beat twice on the same play! FIRE HIM!
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PRE SEASON :truck:
 
steelbtexan said:
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.
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I tend to side with 76. Who else watches more game tape than him?
 
Kareem Jackson is a cornerback, a position that doesn't peak performance-wise until yr 4-6. It's an investment as much as a pick. These guys last longer than QBs. KJ could be destined for a legendary play or plays this season or next. He definitely has athletic potential to be part of some great plays.

Kareem Jackson is tough. He never shies from a collision. That's a valued quality for a CB. Anyway I hope he turns into a clutch player because he picked good years to suck. Nothing was happening those years anyway. And odds favor his career status rising because of success the Texans should have as long as Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak are running the defense and offense.
 
kingh99 said:
Kareem Jackson is a cornerback, a position that doesn't peak performance-wise until yr 4-6. It's an investment as much as a pick. These guys last longer than QBs. KJ could be destined for a legendary play or plays this season or next. He definitely has athletic potential to be part of some great plays.

Kareem Jackson is tough. He never shies from a collision. That's a valued quality for a CB. Anyway I hope he turns into a clutch player because he picked good years to suck. Nothing was happening those years anyway. And odds favor his career status rising because of success the Texans should have as long as Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak are running the defense and offense.
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not saying tackling is not important but I'd much rather corners keep the ball out of WRs hands.
 
badboy said:
not saying tackling is not important but I'd much rather corners keep the ball out of WRs hands.
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Agreed. Trying to find sunshine wherever I can. Seems like his arc is in ascent which is apparently good enough for the coaches. Plenty of pressure and things can change, but for now he's earned his spot on the field.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kareem played a nice game today. He made plays, and even turned his head on coverage of a deep ball to Shorts. No complaints today whatsoever.

Decent 1st week, very good 2nd week. Let's keep this trend going.
 
I never liked the word "improbable" in this thread title. It was always inevitable that he would get better. We still won't know how good he can get for like another 2 years. Problem was we started him as our #1 corner in his rookie year. Even most 1st round corners (which I know he is one) can't handle that.

Heck, J. Joseph is still improving some, not that he needs to.
 
HJam72 said:
I never liked the word "improbable" in this thread title. It was always inevitable that he would get better. We still won't know how good he can get for like another 2 years. Problem was we started him as our #1 corner in his rookie year. Even most 1st round corners (which I know he is one) can't handle that.

Heck, J. Joseph is still improving some, not that he needs to.
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Jackson probably played his best game as a pro today .... they didnt give Gabbert many openings today. 76 yards passing .... while playing with a lead all day long ?! Thats just sick.
 
Corrosion said:
Jackson probably played his best game as a pro today .... they didnt give Gabbert many openings today. 76 yards passing .... while playing with a lead all day long ?! Thats just sick.
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For the most part, KJ was on Blackmon. Blackmon was glaringly cricket material today.
 
Will reserve my judment on KJ this season until he faces an actual passing threat, manning, brady, rogers etc....so far he has faced Tannehil and Gabbert not exactly the cream of the crop.....
 
Corrosion said:
Jackson probably played his best game as a pro today .... they didnt give Gabbert many openings today. 76 yards passing .... while playing with a lead all day long ?! Thats just sick.
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Like I said in the gameday thread, if he continues to perform at this level against Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Stafford etc... then I will take my serving of crow smothered in brown gravy. (Very Happily) Hopefully games against 2-3rd tier QB's will help get KJ's confidence up and he will play well against the top tier QB's.
 
steelbtexan said:
Like I said in the gameday thread, if he continues to perform at this level against Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Stafford etc... then I will take my serving of crow smothered in brown gravy. (Very Happily) Hopefully games against 2-3rd tier QB's will help get KJ's confidence up and he will play well against the top tier QB's.
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That's not very fair. The elite QBs will make most DBs look horrible.
 
EllisUnit said:
Will reserve my judment on KJ this season until he faces an actual passing threat, manning, brady, rogers etc....so far he has faced Tannehil and Gabbert not exactly the cream of the crop.....
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You've got a point, however, we're talking about Kj's play. Was he where he was supposed to be? Did he get beat? Burnt? Turned around? Did he make plays on the ball? Tackle? etc.. etc.. those things will give you an idea of how he's going to do when he faces Manning, Brees, Brady... which is really a team thing more than a Kj thing.

He covered some "decent" WR talent. No "known" names, but talented players all the same. We saw good things as well as bad. We see he's not making many of the same mistakes he made last year.

Most importantly, we're seeing a confident player gaining more confidence every week. I like that.
 
Fiddler said:
You've got a point, however, we're talking about Kj's play. Was he where he was supposed to be? Did he get beat? Burnt? Turned around? Did he make plays on the ball? Tackle? etc.. etc.. those things will give you an idea of how he's going to do when he faces Manning, Brees, Brady... which is really a team thing more than a Kj thing.

He covered some "decent" WR talent. No "known" names, but talented players all the same. We saw good things as well as bad. We see he's not making many of the same mistakes he made last year.

Most importantly, we're seeing a confident player gaining more confidence every week. I like that.
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Gabbert had NO time to do anything, what was he like 7 of 19 for 58 yards are some B.S. They had 2 starters on the O-Line it's not like the camera evern went down field very much to even show the secondary, so how should i know if KJ got beat or was out of position. All i know is an elite QB and O-line will make/attempt those throws against him.

I'm not saying he played bad, just saying lets see how he does against a legit passing game.
 
EllisUnit said:
Gabbert had NO time to do anything, what was he like 7 of 19 for 58 yards are some B.S. They had 2 starters on the O-Line it's not like the camera evern went down field very much to even show the secondary, so how should i know if KJ got beat or was out of position. All i know is an elite QB and O-line will make/attempt those throws against him.

I'm not saying he played bad, just saying lets see how he does against a legit passing game.
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Did you watch the whole game? There were several shots of Kj in coverage.
 
EllisUnit said:
Will reserve my judment on KJ this season until he faces an actual passing threat, manning, brady, rogers etc....so far he has faced Tannehil and Gabbert not exactly the cream of the crop.....
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LOL, I remember somebody was worrying sick that the Jags drafted Blackmon! :spit:
 
EllisUnit said:
Gabbert had NO time to do anything, what was he like 7 of 19 for 58 yards are some B.S. They had 2 starters on the O-Line it's not like the camera evern went down field very much to even show the secondary, so how should i know if KJ got beat or was out of position. All i know is an elite QB and O-line will make/attempt those throws against him.

I'm not saying he played bad, just saying lets see how he does against a legit passing game.
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Gabby is not a great qb, but some of those pressures and sacks were due to coverage. That Brooks reed almost safety was because gabby had nowhere to go with the ball...
 
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