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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And this is where you are wrong - I admit the fact that Tannehill has a better team around him and a great RB.

What you guys don't see is that Tannehill's approach to the position very much compliments those things too .... while Watson's approach is more like Mariota's in looking for big plays instead of just moving the sticks. That's why that team took off when they made the QB change.
Mariota was / is much more dynamic than Tannehill , much like Watson he can escape pressure and is at his best scrambling around .... but in the NFL you simply aren't going to make enough of those kind of plays to win consistently , especially against the better teams.
The scheme and the play call dictate the throw for the most part.
That's why Mike Tomlin said Tannehil is a game manager. And he meant for it to be a compliment, noting that Tannehill is playing very well.

(He's been a little lucky on the Int department as I had noted in the game thread - at least 2 of his throws this year should have been Int, with a possibilty of 3-4 more by my count.)
The Titans fans had ackowledged those two "should have beens"; they were not my imagination.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The scheme and the play call dictate the throw for the most part.
That's why Mike Tomlin said Tannehil is a game manager. And he meant for it to be a compliment, noting that Tannehill is playing very well.

(He's been a little lucky on the Int department as I had noted in the game thread - at least 2 of his throws this year should have been Int, with a possibilty of 3-4 more by my count.)
The Titans fans had ackowledged those two "should have beens"; they were not my imagination.
Truth is over the last yr DW4's been lucky with ints too . Mahomes has been lucky with ints. So this is a poor attempt to try to being a guy down to build your guy up. When you so this it makes you look like you have an agenda.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Good question ....

I think they would be better with DW4 than they were with Mariota but I don't think they would be as good as they are with Tannehill.
The reason for that is that these guys are two different types of players , Watson is a better version of Mariota .... big plays but not much sustained offense where Tannehill is the polar opposite they sustain drives and control the clock / game with shorter throws but he doesn't make a as many big plays.

To me , the way Tannehill approaches the position is more conducive to winning football in the NFL. Its more about moving the sticks than trying to take big chunks.
Tannehill is a game manager. Watson could certainly thrive in a WCO. Watson is not a big play only QB.....OB’s offense dictated these type of situations. We have not seen Watson with all the complimentary pieces.
 

Earl34

All Pro
And this is where you are wrong - I admit the fact that Tannehill has a better team around him and a great RB.

What you guys don't see is that Tannehill's approach to the position very much compliments those things too .... while Watson's approach is more like Mariota's in looking for big plays instead of just moving the sticks. That's why that team took off when they made the QB change.
Mariota was / is much more dynamic than Tannehill , much like Watson he can escape pressure and is at his best scrambling around .... but in the NFL you simply aren't going to make enough of those kind of plays to win consistently , especially against the better teams.
We will have to agree to disagree. As a former WR, a case can be made that Tannehill is just as athletic as Watson and Mariota.
As far as approach, Mariota was not a big play QB. In fact, Titans' fans complained about his lack of aggressiveness and his inability to make the tight window throws or throw the ball up for his WRs. After his injuries, Mariota was closer to Chad Pennington than Watson or even Tannehill.

I still find it amusing that in Miami, practice squad players were reportedly told to take it easy on Tannehill because they were intercepting his passes and frustrated him to the point where he told them, “Enjoy your practice-squad paycheck, enjoy your practice-squad trophy.” Now with a better supporting cast and coaching, he is the gold standard for some Texans' fans. Ironically, it gets ignored that Tannehill game and even maturity has improved with the Titans under a better HC and OC than he had in Miami.

For the record, I like Tannehill. He is in a QB friendly system with a great running game and to his credit, he has played really well and is a key component in the Titans' success. It's just funny to me that we trash our favorite team's QB and so quickly admire QBs on other teams and don't even hold them to the same standard.

I guess familiarity does breed contempt.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/article/20151005/SPORTS/812019085
 
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OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Good question ....

I think they would be better with DW4 than they were with Mariota but I don't think they would be as good as they are with Tannehill.
The reason for that is that these guys are two different types of players , Watson is a better version of Mariota .... big plays but not much sustained offense where Tannehill is the polar opposite they sustain drives and control the clock / game with shorter throws but he doesn't make a as many big plays.

To me , the way Tannehill approaches the position is more conducive to winning football in the NFL. Its more about moving the sticks than trying to take big chunks.
So, does Tannehill out perform Watson as the Texans QB since 2017? How many AFCCG's do you reckon the Texans will have played in due to Tannehill's leadership and gamesmanship?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
We will have to agree to disagree. As a former WR, a case can be made that Tannehill is just as athletic as Watson and Mariota.
As far as approach, Mariota was not a big play QB. In fact, Titans' fans complained about his lack of aggressiveness and his inability to make the tight window throws or throw the ball up for his WRs. After his injuries, Mariota was closer to Chad Pennington than Watson or even Tannehill.

I still find it amusing that in Miami, practice squad players were reportedly told to take it easy on Tannehill because they were intercepting his passes and frustrated him to the point where he told them, “Enjoy your practice-squad paycheck, enjoy your practice-squad trophy.” Now with a better supporting cast and coaching, he is the gold standard for some Texans' fans. Ironically, it gets ignored that Tannehill game and even maturity has improved with the Titans under a better HC and OC than he had in Miami.

For the record, I like Tannehill. He is in a QB friendly system with a great running game and to his credit, he has played really well and is a key component in the Titans' success. It's just funny to me that we trash our favorite team's QB and so quickly admire QBs on other teams and don't even hold them to the same standard.

I guess familiarity does breed contempt.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/article/20151005/SPORTS/812019085
Bro just imagine if Watson would’ve said that type of stuff here. Oh boy they would have a field day destroying him for those type of comments to his teammates.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Bro just imagine if Watson would’ve said that type of stuff here. Oh boy they would have a field day destroying him for those type of comments to his teammates.
Against the Texans, the middle of the field was wide open and instead of Tannehill throwing the ball to the middle of the field, he threw behind the WR, didn't lead him and Robey intercepted the pass. If Watson makes the same mistake, you would hear it's a throw elite QBs are supposed to make. If he could throw with accuracy and anticipation, that would have been an easy TD, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I can understand being infatuated with Mahomes, he is a generational talent. But posters going gaga over Jimmy G and Tannehill seems a bit much. JimmyG threw for 77 yards and won a AFC Championship game. With this roster and coaching staff, the Texans would be hard pressed to win a preseason game with Watson throwing for 77 yards. With the Titans, everything starts with the running game and play action. When playing the Texans, tell me one team that has stopping Johnson as a priority.

Then again, even when Kenny Stabler was with the Oilers and could barely avoid the rush and drop into a fetal position when pass rushers got close to him, he was still the QB of my favorite NFL team and I always looked to the positives in his game. Maybe it's me, but in a thread about "All encompassing DW4 good plays", we have posters who would rather post about the greatness of other QBs than even objectively discuss the observations from non-Texans' media and fans.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it's just odd to me. Like I mentioned. Familiarity breeds contempt.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Against the Texans, the middle of the field was wide open and instead of Tannehill throwing the ball to the middle of the field, he threw behind the WR, didn't lead him and Robey intercepted the pass. If Watson makes the same mistake, you would hear it's a throw elite QBs are supposed to make. If he could throw with accuracy and anticipation, that would have been an easy TD, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I can understand being infatuated with Mahomes, he is a generational talent. But posters going gaga over Jimmy G and Tannehill seems a bit much. JimmyG threw for 77 yards and won a AFC Championship game. With this roster and coaching staff, the Texans would be hard pressed to win a preseason game with Watson throwing for 77 yards. With the Titans, everything starts with the running game and play action. When playing the Texans, tell me one team that has stopping Johnson as a priority.

Then again, even when Kenny Stabler was with the Oilers and could barely avoid the rush and drop into a fetal position when pass rushers got close to him, he was still the QB of my favorite NFL team and I always looked to the positives in his game. Maybe it's me, but in a thread about "All encompassing DW4 good plays", we have posters who would rather post about the greatness of other QBs than even objectively discuss the observations from non-Texans' media and fans.

Again, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it's just odd to me. Like I mentioned. Familiarity breeds contempt.
DB asked me to start this type of thread, but the OP beat me to it. This thread suppose to be about the positives of Watson’s game. But you and I knew better because a certain percentage of this forum really don’t have anything positive to say about Watson. He is not the type of QB they wanted for this team. That’s why Jimmy G and Tannehill is being brought up on here. Tannehill only threw for 88 yards against the Ravens in the playoffs. Henry and that defense is the reason why the beat them.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
So, does Tannehill out perform Watson as the Texans QB since 2017? How many AFCCG's do you reckon the Texans will have played in due to Tannehill's leadership and gamesmanship?

No , I think the results would be about the same. This team is a dumpster fire , much like that Miami team Tannehill left.

You said above "Tannehill is a game manager" - Yes , he is.

What are Brady , Brees , Roethlisberger and even Peyton Manning? Game managers .... they don't make many mistakes and they make good decisions with the ball the vast majority of snaps.

Watson is a special athlete .... That doesn't make him a special Quarterback.
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
No , I think the results would be about the same. This team is a dumpster fire , much like that Miami team Tannehill left.

You said above "Tannehill is a game manager" - Yes , he is.

What are Brady , Brees , Roethlisberger and even Peyton Manning? Game managers .... they don't make many mistakes and they make good decisions with the ball the vast majority of snaps.

Watson is a special athlete .... That doesn't make him a special Quarterback.
Manning in his prime was the best quarterback I've ever seen. He didn't just not make mistakes, he made amazing throws and regularly diced defenses.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
No , I think the results would be about the same. This team is a dumpster fire , much like that Miami team Tannehill left.

You said above "Tannehill is a game manager" - Yes , he is.

What are Brady , Brees , Roethlisberger and even Peyton Manning? Game managers .... they don't make many mistakes and they make good decisions with the ball the vast majority of snaps.

Watson is a special athlete .... That doesn't make him a special Quarterback.
I highly doubt it would be anywhere near the same. The main reason, our offensive line is that horrendous. And Tannehill is not that mobile and elusive like Watson.


Why do you need to say he’s not a special quarterback? Lol
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
I highly doubt it would be anywhere near the same. The main reason, our offensive line is that horrendous. And Tannehill is not that mobile and elusive like Watson.


Why do you need to say he’s not a special quarterback? Lol

I think he is that special. Problem is, he may already be ruined.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Manning in his prime was the best quarterback I've ever seen. He didn't just not make mistakes, he made amazing throws and regularly diced defenses.

He wasn't the best athlete .... He was the best decision maker.

That's what makes a QB.

Why do you need to say he’s not a special quarterback? Lol
Because he's not a special quarterback. He's an average one when it comes to making decisions.

His athleticism gets him out of the trouble his decision making put him...


Ever notice when this offense is clicking ? What's the common theme ? Its getting the ball out quickly. When he does that , they look unstoppable. Thing is , he doesn't do that on a routine basis. More often than not he hangs on to the ball running around the backfield .... Sometimes that leads to a big play , but the majority of those lead to a negative outcome.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Bleh - I'm done with this conversation. You guys carry on .... we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You think he's a great QB .... I think he's poor to middling.

Results will tell the tale. We'll see what history has to say.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
He wasn't the best athlete .... He was the best decision maker.

That's what makes a QB.



Because he's not a special quarterback. He's an average one when it comes to making decisions.

His athleticism gets him out of the trouble his decision making put him...


Ever notice when this offense is clicking ? What's the common theme ? Its getting the ball out quickly. When he does that , they look unstoppable. Thing is , he doesn't do that on a routine basis. More often than not he hangs on to the ball running around the backfield .... Sometimes that leads to a big play , but the majority of those lead to a negative outcome.

Lol ok brother.


Man Manning first 4 years was not great at all. His decision making was terrible. Amazing how quickly you gents forgets those known facts. Why ?
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
He wasn't the best athlete .... He was the best decision maker.

That's what makes a QB.



Because he's not a special quarterback. He's an average one when it comes to making decisions.

His athleticism gets him out of the trouble his decision making put him...


Ever notice when this offense is clicking ? What's the common theme ? Its getting the ball out quickly. When he does that , they look unstoppable. Thing is , he doesn't do that on a routine basis. More often than not he hangs on to the ball running around the backfield .... Sometimes that leads to a big play , but the majority of those lead to a negative outcome.
And yet he used athletic talent to make those throws.

I don't disagree with your premise, I just think Manning was far more then a game manager. Brian Hoyer on his best day is a game manager. Manning was well beyond that in an elite class.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tannehill is a game manager. Watson could certainly thrive in a WCO. Watson is not a big play only QB.....OB’s offense dictated these type of situations. We have not seen Watson with all the complimentary pieces.
We're probably going to find out. If he fails I just wonder what excuses for his failure will be. You know there will be excuses. There are always excuses. Difference this time is DW4's basically getting to pick his own HC. Whatever could possibly go wrong?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Because he's not a special quarterback. He's an average one when it comes to making decisions.

His athleticism gets him out of the trouble his decision making put him...
I agree. Same, IMO, can be said about Mahomes & Tannehill. Biggest difference is they can dump the ball off to Kelce for 8 yards & he can be counted on to turn it into a 25 yard gain. Or hand it off to Henry to close out a game.

I think right now in his career Watson’s athleticism needs to be his plan B, every time. But he decides to stay behind the LOS, keeping his eyes downfield to make a play as a QB. He’s not good enough at this point to do that (like Peyton was) his team is not good enough to do that (like Tannehill’s is).


Ever notice when this offense is clicking ? What's the common theme ? Its getting the ball out quickly. When he does that , they look unstoppable. Thing is , he doesn't do that on a routine basis. More often than not he hangs on to the ball running around the backfield ....
I kinda sort of agree. All QBs will have a time in the game to decide when to take what the defense gives him & when to dictate to the defense. I don’t understand the moments DW4 chooses to dictate & in those moments he decides to dictate, when he doesn’t get what he looks for, plan B has to be “get upfield, now.”

But I see the good QBs hold on to the ball all the time because they “know” they need a big play now. Works in their favor more often than they do for Watson, sure... but why? Is it the team or the QB? Like you I think it’s on the QB. But I think it’s because he doesn’t have a good “Plan B”
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Bleh - I'm done with this conversation. You guys carry on .... we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You think he's a great QB .... I think he's poor to middling.

Results will tell the tale. We'll see what history has to say.
Never said he was great....my argument, he has the talent to be great based on what he’s been able to accomplish on a piss-poor team.

Now give him the luxury of a solid defense, OL, running game, and coordinators.....and I believe we’d finally see a consistent Watson step forward.

This point of view is going to be hard to debate b/c Watson has never had the luxury of the items mentioned above on a consistent basis.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Never said he was great....my argument, he has the talent to be great based on what he’s been able to accomplish on a piss-poor team.

Now give him the luxury of a solid defense, OL, running game, and coordinators.....and I believe we’d finally see a consistent Watson step forward.

This point of view is going to be hard to debate b/c Watson has never had the luxury of the items mentioned above on a consistent basis.
Feels like the window has closed now though.
Yeah, we can go out and get a decent coaching staff, and gradually rebuild this team through the draft, but the time when you add the final piece of the jigsaw through FA is gone because Watson is taking up all that cap.
 

powda

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Feels like the window has closed now though.
Yeah, we can go out and get a decent coaching staff, and gradually rebuild this team through the draft, but the time when you add the final piece of the jigsaw through FA is gone because Watson is taking up all that cap.
Imagine the backlash if we didn't resign Watson and he left in free agency...
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Imagine the backlash if we didn't resign Watson and he left in free agency...
Absolutely. But they have screwed the whole thing up because they had the years to put the D and OL in place and they messed it all up, wrong OL coach, crap scheme.
By the time the needed to make that signing, they didn’t know what they had in Watson, seem to have been steamrolled into paying him like an unquestioned top QB. Says it all that a matter of weeks after locking him up, they fire the HC/GM. The whole franchise is a mess.

I always have this doubt in the back of my head about Watson, because when he faces Mahomes or Jackson, all the media talk is how he’s in the conversation with them as the hot young QBs, it’s all smiles and pats on the back between them, but he always looks significantly the lesser player on those games.
Yet the Texans didn’t manage to factor those doubts into the deal at all.
Watson needed to be a few million behind that top QB money and with a “prove-it” contract structure that allowed him to become rich or the Texans to get out from under him.
With hindsight, they should have waited to come to the table, they didn’t get any discount for locking him up early.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Absolutely. But they have screwed the whole thing up because they had the years to put the D and OL in place and they messed it all up, wrong OL coach, crap scheme.
By the time the needed to make that signing, they didn’t know what they had in Watson, seem to have been steamrolled into paying him like an unquestioned top QB. Says it all that a matter of weeks after locking him up, they fire the HC/GM. The whole franchise is a mess.

I always have this doubt in the back of my head about Watson, because when he faces Mahomes or Jackson, all the media talk is how he’s in the conversation with them as the hot young QBs, it’s all smiles and pats on the back between them, but he always looks significantly the lesser player on those games.
Yet the Texans didn’t manage to factor those doubts into the deal at all.
Watson needed to be a few million behind that top QB money and with a “prove-it” contract structure that allowed him to become rich or the Texans to get out from under him.
With hindsight, they should have waited to come to the table, they didn’t get any discount for locking him up early.
After shipping Hopkins out, Butchin was under pressure to keep the offensive side looking good, at least on paper.
He went gaga with all the signings.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Absolutely. But they have screwed the whole thing up because they had the years to put the D and OL in place and they messed it all up, wrong OL coach, crap scheme.
By the time the needed to make that signing, they didn’t know what they had in Watson, seem to have been steamrolled into paying him like an unquestioned top QB. Says it all that a matter of weeks after locking him up, they fire the HC/GM. The whole franchise is a mess.

I always have this doubt in the back of my head about Watson, because when he faces Mahomes or Jackson, all the media talk is how he’s in the conversation with them as the hot young QBs, it’s all smiles and pats on the back between them, but he always looks significantly the lesser player on those games.
Yet the Texans didn’t manage to factor those doubts into the deal at all.
Watson needed to be a few million behind that top QB money and with a “prove-it” contract structure that allowed him to become rich or the Texans to get out from under him.
With hindsight, they should have waited to come to the table, they didn’t get any discount for locking him up early.
Out of curiosity, when you watch the games when Watson faces Mahomes or Jackson, do you see any differences in coaching, play calling, formations and even personnel between the teams? For example, when you watch KC run a screen pass, do you think, I saw the Texans run a similar play and Watson didn't execute it? When you watch the Ravens and their RBs physically manhandling the Texans DL, do you think the Texans OL is doing the same thing opening massive holes for the RBs? How about the pass rush between the teams?
 
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welsh texan

All Pro
Out of curiosity, when you watch the games when Watson faces Mahomes or Jackson, do you see any differences in coaching, play calling, formations and even personnel between the teams? For example, when you watch KC run a screen pass, do you think, I saw the Texans run a similar play and Watson didn't execute it? When you watch the Ravens and their RBs physically manhandling the Texans DL, do you think the Texans OL is doing the same thing opening massive holes for the RBs? How about the pass rush between the teams?
I see what you are getting at, but it’s folly to pay a QB who might be at that level if only we can put the right team around him.

For me, I do see some key areas where Watson isn’t on the same level. He isn’t consistently making the correct read. He isn’t consistently moving the ball with his feet.

The Texans painted themselves into a corner by accepting mediocre coaching, crap OL, crap running game, any trick plays tend not to work, and a D that became progressively worse over Watson’s rookie deal.

I blame OB, I blame ownership for allowing OB to ruin the team for the foreseeable future. I don’t blame Watson, but I do question whether he is worth his contract.

If you put it this way $40million QB+Texans org=1-6 record this year.
$40million QB limits the teams ability to improve around him. So it really comes down to whether the $40million QB can lift that team around him.

Rodgers was earning $10 million per year the last time he won a Super Bowl. Wilson and Mahomes were on rookie deals.

Let’s hope a new coach comes in and makes the game easy for Watson, when he’s on fire there isn’t anyone I’d rather watch leading my team down the field.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I see what you are getting at, but it’s folly to pay a QB who might be at that level if only we can put the right team around him.

For me, I do see some key areas where Watson isn’t on the same level. He isn’t consistently making the correct read. He isn’t consistently moving the ball with his feet.

The Texans painted themselves into a corner by accepting mediocre coaching, crap OL, crap running game, any trick plays tend not to work, and a D that became progressively worse over Watson’s rookie deal.

I blame OB, I blame ownership for allowing OB to ruin the team for the foreseeable future. I don’t blame Watson, but I do question whether he is worth his contract.

If you put it this way $40million QB+Texans org=1-6 record this year.
$40million QB limits the teams ability to improve around him. So it really comes down to whether the $40million QB can lift that team around him.

Rodgers was earning $10 million per year the last time he won a Super Bowl. Wilson and Mahomes were on rookie deals.

Let’s hope a new coach comes in and makes the game easy for Watson, when he’s on fire there isn’t anyone I’d rather watch leading my team down the field.
2020 and 2021 Texans would be 100% reflective of their record even if Watson never signed that contract. Watson’s contract will not derail this team going forward....another bad GM and HC will do that on their own.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Out of curiosity, when you watch the games when Watson faces Mahomes or Jackson, do you see any differences in coaching, play calling, formations and even personnel between the teams? For example, when you watch KC run a screen pass, do you think, I saw the Texans run a similar play and Watson didn't execute it? When you watch the Ravens and their RBs physically manhandling the Texans DL, do you think the Texans OL is doing the same thing opening massive holes for the RBs? How about the pass rush between the teams?

Out of curiosity! How is the elite Jimmy G doing against the stout Seahawks defense ?

Lol
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I see what you are getting at, but it’s folly to pay a QB who might be at that level if only we can put the right team around him.

For me, I do see some key areas where Watson isn’t on the same level. He isn’t consistently making the correct read. He isn’t consistently moving the ball with his feet.

The Texans painted themselves into a corner by accepting mediocre coaching, crap OL, crap running game, any trick plays tend not to work, and a D that became progressively worse over Watson’s rookie deal.

I blame OB, I blame ownership for allowing OB to ruin the team for the foreseeable future. I don’t blame Watson, but I do question whether he is worth his contract.

If you put it this way $40million QB+Texans org=1-6 record this year.
$40million QB limits the teams ability to improve around him. So it really comes down to whether the $40million QB can lift that team around him.

Rodgers was earning $10 million per year the last time he won a Super Bowl. Wilson and Mahomes were on rookie deals.

Let’s hope a new coach comes in and makes the game easy for Watson, when he’s on fire there isn’t anyone I’d rather watch leading my team down the field.
Hey, it's only $39M, not 40. :brando:
No, I don't think any QB deserves that kind of money until he win a SB, or at least get a team to the SB.
As I had said before, there should be a number of bonus clauses attached to that contract.

That contract is on the GM/HC and owner
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If they gut this team so much that they revamp the OL again & get rid of good targets like Akins, Fells, & both Cooks & Cobb ( I’m ok with losing one of the two), then I’ll make excuses for him.
This isn't about this yr. If they traded every potential guy that's about to hit FA and got something for them that would be the responsible thing to do. If they cut N.Martin and DJ tomorrow would that be gutting the team? Nope, they need to be thinking about the future. Not the now.
 


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