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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

Earl34

Veteran
Absolutely, great touch & accuracy.

But that's not double coverage. Especially not when DW4 threw the ball. Safety was out of position, couldn't get to it in time.
The safety got over there late. Watson looked him off, buying enough time to drop that in the bread basket. Thing of beauty indeed
My bad. Based on the TV angle and safety coming over, I thought it was Cover 2. So, you are saying when he has time in the pocket, he manipulates the safety with his eyes?

Here is someone also echoing your point regarding Watson holding off the safety with his eyes.

 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I'm sure, with OB's shackles off everyone, the team and our star QB will do better. At least they should if all us OB haters are right. LOL
I don't know if the team and Watson will do better. It's alot easier to find bad coaches rather than good ones. I just know the BOB experiment was over and time to find someone new. Unfortunately, no guarantees the new will even be better.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
I saw a practice video of the Texans running this route in practice. Although I'm not a fan of throwing deep routes into Cover 2, you have to appreciate the touch, accuracy and anticipation on this pass.

That doesn't look like cover 2 to me, that looks like man with a safety high who doesn't get over in time.

EDIT: Sorry. Didn't read far enough to see that this had been discussed.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't have any stats to back this up, but it did feel like DW audible'd quite more frequently in the Jax game. That was one of the subtle differences in the game I noticed.
If you’re ready to concede what is shown in that tweet is an audible, then he’s been audibling from day 1.

That looked more like adjustments to me. Tweaking a route maybe.

We don’t do the,”KILL KILL KILL” wholesale change kind of audible.
 
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dream_team

Hall of Fame
If you’re ready to concede what is shown in that tweet is an audible, then he’s been audibling from day 1.

That looked more like adjustments to me. Tweaking a route maybe.

We don’t do the,”KILL KILL KILL” wholesale change kind of audible.
Whether you call it an audible, a check, or making adjustments, doesn't matter to me. It seemed to have occurred more often to me than normal.

I could be wrong, as there are no stats to verify... so not worth debating over if you disagree.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If you’re ready to concede what is shown in that tweet is an audible, then he’s been audibling from day 1.

That looked more like adjustments to me. Tweaking a route maybe.

We don’t do the,”KILL KILL KILL” wholesale change kind of audible.
Could be both actually. We saw this with Schaub in the past where we as fans didn't think he had "permission" to audible and Schaub through his radio show on monday mornings a few times explained to us that he in fact could audible...What he didn't go into specifics about however was how much lattitude Kubiak gave him in audibling..in which case as we all suspected, was probably rather limited. In fact, most likely b/c the more you change the harder it is to keep all players on offense on the same page. It takes a **** ton of communication to be able to do it.

Now What is apparent is that DW4 changed something based on what he saw. In the past under BoB maybe he was able to do it from day 1, but he was limited like Schaub was. Without BoB and being allowed to take part in and develop the game plan, perhaps he has been given more lattitude to change things like he wants.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Could be both actually. We saw this with Schaub in the past where we as fans didn't think he had "permission" to audible and Schaub through his radio show on monday mornings a few times explained to us that he in fact could audible...What he didn't go into specifics about however was how much lattitude Kubiak gave him in audibling..in which case as we all suspected, was probably rather limited. In fact, most likely b/c the more you change the harder it is to keep all players on offense on the same page. It takes a **** ton of communication to be able to do it.

Now What is apparent is that DW4 changed something based on what he saw. In the past under BoB maybe he was able to do it from day 1, but he was limited like Schaub was. Without BoB and being allowed to take part in and develop the game plan, perhaps he has been given more lattitude to change things like he wants.
Regarding Kubiak/Shanny and QB audibles. There is a good article on NFL.COM about the Packers' Matt Lafleur who came from the Shanny coaching tree and Rodgers audibling. Considering Rodgers had a reputation of ignoring or changing plays, to LaFleur's credit, he changed his philosphy and avoided any conflicts with his QB.

"LaFleur, who models his offense after longtime co-worker, friend and mentor (and now San Francisco 49ers coach) Kyle Shanahan's attack, had never before worked with NFL quarterbacks who had carte blanche to change plays at the line of scrimmage. Rodgers, who'd enjoyed that privilege under previous Packers coach Mike McCarthy, had told me, "I don't think you want to ask me to turn off 11 years (of recognizing defenses)."

https://www.nfl.com/news/matt-lafleur-getting-along-just-fine-with-lights-out-aaron-rodgers-in-year-2
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Regarding Kubiak/Shanny and QB audibles. There is a good article on NFL.COM about the Packers' Matt Lafleur who came from the Shanny coaching tree and Rodgers audibling. Considering Rodgers had a reputation of ignoring or changing plays, to LaFleur's credit, he changed his philosphy and avoided any conflicts with his QB.

"LaFleur, who models his offense after longtime co-worker, friend and mentor (and now San Francisco 49ers coach) Kyle Shanahan's attack, had never before worked with NFL quarterbacks who had carte blanche to change plays at the line of scrimmage. Rodgers, who'd enjoyed that privilege under previous Packers coach Mike McCarthy, had told me, "I don't think you want to ask me to turn off 11 years (of recognizing defenses)."

https://www.nfl.com/news/matt-lafleur-getting-along-just-fine-with-lights-out-aaron-rodgers-in-year-2
that type of latitude is reserved for the greats..LaFleur was smart in adjusting to his qb rather than him trying to control everything like BoB and really most HC’s who call plays are.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Tunsil had his man locked. He played well

Tunsil's a really good pass blocker ....

Thing is , what he cost in terms of assets and what he will cost in terms of cap space , those are "game changer" assets / cap allocation".

For that kind of money and draft capital , I want to know I can line up behind that guy and get 3rd and 2 every time along with the very good pass protection. He's not that guy.

And most teams are moving their stud pass rushers around ... isolating them on the weakest link so he's not canceling out the opponents "game changers" on defense on a routine basis either.

I just hate the idea of giving Miami those two early picks .... and 10%+ cap space on one guy going forward.

My complaints are probably more on the decision makers / contract negotiator than Tunsil's performance to be honest.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tunsil's a really good pass blocker ....

Thing is , what he cost in terms of assets and what he will cost in terms of cap space , those are "game changer" assets / cap allocation".

For that kind of money and draft capital , I want to know I can line up behind that guy and get 3rd and 2 every time along with the very good pass protection. He's not that guy.

And most teams are moving their stud pass rushers around ... isolating them on the weakest link so he's not canceling out the opponents "game changers" on defense on a routine basis either.

I just hate the idea of giving Miami those two early picks .... and 10%+ cap space on one guy going forward.

My complaints are probably more on the decision makers / contract negotiator than Tunsil's performance to be honest.
I didn't have a problem with the trade because if they would've drafted a LT they would've had to trade two 1sts to get up high enough to draft a LT that could start as a rookie and there would be no guarantee that the rookie would ever be as good as Tunsil already is. The contract is a result of getting a proven LT.

What I want to know is why Howard has regressed so badly. Devlin has to go. The OL has talent but is missing something and I think that something is the OL is thinking too much instead of thinking about kicking the guy across from them azz on a regular basis.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s that faux Patriots way crap, former Belichick assistants pull. I vaguely remember reports that he removed all individual accolades, plaques or achievements on the wall.

It’s all about the T-E-A-M. I guess he did the same thing with the C. All players are captains.
It should be all about the T-E-A-M. are you saying it shouldn't be? Because if it's not then that's where the differences we have really lie and not so much DW4.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I didn't have a problem with the trade because if they would've drafted a LT they would've had to trade two 1sts to get up high enough to draft a LT that could start as a rookie and there would be no guarantee that the rookie would ever be as good as Tunsil already is. The contract is a result of getting a proven LT.

What I want to know is why Howard has regressed so badly. Devlin has to go. The OL has talent but is missing something and I think that something is the OL is thinking too much instead of thinking about kicking the guy across from them azz on a regular basis.
Except for N. Martin... he's slow and weak .
 

Earl34

Veteran
It should be all about the T-E-A-M. are you saying it shouldn't be? Because if it's not then that's where the differences we have really lie and not so much DW4.
You missed my point. I'm not saying that it should not be about T-E-A-M. I'm saying these are grown men. Going through the halls at NRG and removing player records, awards or whatever that was on the walls is amateurish. Why not remove their names from the jerseys too.

Just my opinion, it just seems silly and time could be spent on other more productive things like designing screen plays. The players are on social media, they see commercials, they are mentioned on ESPN and NFL network. These are grown men. Treat them like men, professionals.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You missed my point. I'm not saying that it should not be about T-E-A-M. I'm saying these are grown men. Going through the halls at NRG and removing player records, awards or whatever that was on the walls is amateurish. Why not remove their names from the jerseys too.

Just my opinion, it just seems silly and time could be spent on other more productive things like designing screen plays. The players are on social media, they see commercials, they are mentioned on ESPN and NFL network. These are grown men. Treat them like men, professionals.
So taking down personal achievements is not treating them like grown men? I dont care for players/fans who put personal achievements above the T-E-A-M. That's a loser mentality.
 

Earl34

Veteran
So taking down personal achievements is not treating them like grown men? I dont care for players/fans who put personal achievements above the T-E-A-M. That's a loser mentality.
So, as a business owner, you have an issue with an employee of the month award? The employee of the month is not a team player? Should every team take down their Ring of Honor?

My stance is that it has nothing to do with putting individuals above T-E-A-M. It's a power play and college type move. I just think on the list of things that contributes to winning or losing football games, a wall of achievement is not even on the list. If a player really selfishly cares about those things, they can have them on their phones, locker, or man-cave. So, taking them down doesn't really matter. So, exactly what did it accomplish?
 
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Earl34

Veteran
I might give an employee something tangible like a bonus or a better parking spot for a month.
See. A parking spot might even motivate some employees. Also, if he was handing out game balls after wins, isn't that similar? Again, my point is that no player is above the team, but you would think there are "bigger fish to fry" than to take down pictures on a wall:

EDIT: I found the article. This is how Brandon Brooks felt about the situation:
BLG: It’s just accepted? It’s just how it is?

BROOKS: I’ll put it this way. I was going into my third year in Houston. O’Brien had just come in. And, you know, players who’ve made Pro Bowls, All-Pro [teams], whatever, they had their pictures on the wall and stuff. It was down the hallway as you go to lunch, you get to see how the players handle their business. When he came in, man, all those pictures were taken down. TVs in the cafeteria were off. He would never tell you what to say to the media, but he would always be like, ‘I can’t tell you what to say to the media. But some things that you might want to mention is like: I’m here to do my job. Stuff like that. You know what I mean? So eventually you get the same answers from all of the guys, you start realizing what’s going on.

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/5/31/17411952/brandon-brooks-didnt-like-playing-for-bill-obrien
 
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mws

Waterboy
This sort of reminds me of the Jerry Glanville days. All his bull**** of leaving tickets & wearing black was ok as long as he won. Same with O'Brien. All his tough old school stuff was alright for a year or two.

Until you figured out that underneath it all he was a terrible judge of talent & a very mediocre offensive mind. Then all that bluster (like cussing out fans) just made him look silly.

I guess his epitaph could be "You suck too m**********r" or maybe "It doesn't matter, Brian. AFC South champions two years in a row, Brian."
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
See. A parking spot might even motivate some employees. Also, if he was handing out game balls after wins, isn't that similar? Again, my point is that no player is above the team, but you would think there are "bigger fish to fry" than to take down pictures on a wall:

EDIT: I found the article. This is how Brandon Brooks felt about the situation:
BLG: It’s just accepted? It’s just how it is?

BROOKS: I’ll put it this way. I was going into my third year in Houston. O’Brien had just come in. And, you know, players who’ve made Pro Bowls, All-Pro [teams], whatever, they had their pictures on the wall and stuff. It was down the hallway as you go to lunch, you get to see how the players handle their business. When he came in, man, all those pictures were taken down. TVs in the cafeteria were off. He would never tell you what to say to the media, but he would always be like, ‘I can’t tell you what to say to the media. But some things that you might want to mention is like: I’m here to do my job. Stuff like that. You know what I mean? So eventually you get the same answers from all of the guys, you start realizing what’s going on.

https://www.battleredblog.com/2018/5/31/17411952/brandon-brooks-didnt-like-playing-for-bill-obrien
Exactly what's wrong with a united front?

Brooks didn't speak highly of BOB. But another disgruntled OL did. (Duane Brown) wonder why this was? Not taking up for BOB but I believe in a united front and team 1st attitude. I'm for giving out game balls. That's in the moment and a morale builder. Much different than having individual players pics/awards etc... all over the locker room.

I wonder if Belichick has this, how about Vrabel? How many HC's do this the BOB way vs the previous regimes way?
 

Scooter

Funky
Brooks. Jones. The complete destruction of XSF.

Between Week 9 2017 and shortly before October 9 2020 ...

Duane Brown -
1612 pass blocking snaps
70 Pressures allowed
4.3% pressure rate

Laremy Tunsil -
1695 pass blocking snaps
72 Pressures allowed
4.2% pressure rate

Used to be a time that even at our worst we were still able to run left, but now with (for some reason) a cripplingly paid RB and the greatest LT ever ...
 

Earl34

Veteran
Exactly what's wrong with a united front?

Brooks didn't speak highly of BOB. But another disgruntled OL did. (Duane Brown) wonder why this was? Not taking up for BOB but I believe in a united front and team 1st attitude. I'm for giving out game balls. That's in the moment and a morale builder. Much different than having individual players pics/awards etc... all over the locker room.

I wonder if Belichick has this, how about Vrabel? How many HC's do this the BOB way vs the previous regimes way?
It wasn't in the locker room. It was on the way to the cafeteria. This is not worth the effort to go back and forth. Again, to me this has nothing to do with a united front or team 1st attitude. In fact, it might be sillier than this conversation. If a team captain doesn't have a C on his uniform, the other players don't know who the team captains are? If you remove the C from their uniform they are more unified? It's just silly to me. But again, that's my opinion.

I'm back on topic to DW4 good plays.
 

Earl34

Veteran
The Ravens, Steelers and Patriots have never seen the need to have their captains wear the ''C.''
Some teams have weekly captains and don't have a need for the "C" on their jerseys. Again, to each his own. Based on Brooks' reaction, some players thought he was trying to be Belichick, others didn't care. Maybe O'Brien simply wanted to do things different from Kubiak. I don't know and really don't care.

This started as why Watson had a "C" on his jersey and I made the comment about it being similar to taking the pictures off the wall. This conversation is being steered into a individual versus team debate when my point was simply in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. I don't think any team won or lost a game due to a "C" on their jersey or a picture on the wall leading to the cafeteria.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-captains-c-patch-comes-with-varied-roles-responsibilities-0ap1000000058893
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
The Ravens, Steelers and Patriots have never seen the need to have their captains wear the ''C.''
Those teams have multiple footballs made by Tiffany in their trophy cases too. I think it was @Earl34, who said it best, if they worried less about people wearing C and pictures on the wall, and a little more about designing a screen pass, things might have worked out a little better.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
They usually get that way when one poster calls another a racist.
If the shoe fits...
49ers fans are having a fantasy of trading Jimmy G and 2 - 1st rounders for Watson. It would start a 3 - 1st, btw. However, Texans do not want the Trash of Jimmy G. Plus, the Texans are not taking the $77 million dollar cap hit. Thirdly, Cal McNair would have a riot on his hands as Texans' fan burned down NRG Stadium...with him in it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If the shoe fits...


49ers fans are having a fantasy of trading Jimmy G and 2 - 1st rounders for Watson. It would start a 3 - 1st, btw. However, Texans do not want the Trash of Jimmy G. Plus, the Texans are not taking the $77 million dollar cap hit. Thirdly, Cal McNair would have a riot on his hands as Texans' fan burned down NRG Stadium...with him in it.
Jimmy G threw 3 TD's last night on a bad ankle. I would take two 1sts and Jimmy G in a heartbeat for DW4. Gotta rebuild the defense.

Cal would never do this though. Gotta make his $$$$ and DW4 certainly helps Cal put butts in the seats.
 


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