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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Their offensive line got much better. That’s where it all starts. In the trenches.
Mariotta was benched mid season. The line didn’t get better mid season. Tannehill keeps defenses from loading up on Henry. That’s how we beat the Titans before Tannehill. Mariotta could do nothing without Henry wyling.

At the same time teams can’t focus on beating Tannehill like they could in Miami.

That team was truly a QB away from contending. We weren’t.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Derek Henry finally started producing at the same time Tannehill arrived. The talent on the team got much better while Tannehill has been on board. Timing and getting the pieces to the puzzle are crucial......Texans, I believe they were dyslexic and never quite understood how to put a puzzle together.
Actually, Derrick Henry started producing once the Titans figured out they should give him more carries than 10/game, once they figured out the RBBC w/ Dion Lewis is dumb. The season before Tannehill arrived, Henry rushed for over 1000 yards and 4.9 ypc, and that's w/ splitting carries w/ Lewis the first half of the season.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Derek Henry finally started producing at the same time Tannehill arrived. The talent on the team got much better while Tannehill has been on board. Timing and getting the pieces to the puzzle are crucial......Texans, I believe they were dyslexic and never quite understood how to put a puzzle together.
The Titans were an avg to below avg with Mariota and Suddenly they become a contender within the same season. Coincidence I think not.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Out of curiosity, any posters want to debate/refute the points being made by two different evaluators of Watson's play in posts #143 and #144?

Does it change anyone's opinion on if Watson can or cannot read defenses or stay in the pocket or throw with timing and anticipation?

We can all cherry pick a few plays where he looks great .... then we can cherry pick just as many of him forcing it , missing a read , holding it too long.

Bottom line is he has to consistently be "Good Watson" because it only takes one bad play to ruin a drive.

Which Watson showed up in the first half against the Packers ? 21-0 at the half.

Which Watson showed up in the first quarter against the Titans ? 14-0 after a quarter.

Which Watson showed up in the first half against the Vikings ? 6 points in the first half.

Which Watson showed up in the second half against the Steelers ? Shut out in the second half.

Which Watson showed up against the Ravens ? 1st , 3rd & 4th quarters - 6 points.

Which Watson showed up in the first three quarters against the Chiefs ? 7 points thru 3 quarters.

Can he do it ? Sure he can .... Does he do it consistently , that's a pretty resounding No.

This is a recurring theme with Watson and this offense going back to last year and before.
6 points in the second half against Tampa
3 points in the first half against Denver.
3 scoreless quarters against Baltimore.
2 scoreless quarters and a 3 point quarter against Carolina
3 quarters 6 points against the Jags.

.

He's got to be more consistent , extend / sustain drives , not just rely upon big plays.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
The Titans were an avg to below avg with Mariota and Suddenly they become a contender within the same season. Coincidence I think not.
If Tannehill was such the difference maker, which he was when the stars aligned, why wasn't he the same difference maker in Miami? Miami traded him to the Titans who were initially thinking of him as nothing more than a QB2 to Mariota. Why did he become a different QB in Tennessee?
 

welsh texan

All Pro
If Tannehill was such the difference maker, which he was when the stars aligned, why wasn't he the same difference maker in Miami? Miami traded him to the Titans who were initially thinking of him as nothing more than a QB2 to Mariota. Why did he become a different QB in Tennessee?
He didn’t. He’s the same QB on a better team.
Good OL, Good RB, Good TE, Good WR1, Good D.
The game isn’t put on Tannehill’s shoulders, he isn’t asked to carry the team. The scheme is always manageable and their options aren’t limited by situation anywhere near as much as it was in Miami for him.
Complimentary football in action rather than some little phrase we spout as an aspiration.
You don’t need a great, athletic QB to win in the NFL. You can get by with a system QB as long as everything else is in place.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He didn’t. He’s the same QB on a better team.
Good OL, Good RB, Good TE, Good WR1, Good D.
The game isn’t put on Tannehill’s shoulders, he isn’t asked to carry the team. The scheme is always manageable and their options aren’t limited by situation anywhere near as much as it was in Miami for him.
Complimentary football in action rather than some little phrase we spout as an aspiration.
You don’t need a great, athletic QB to win in the NFL. You can get by with a system QB as long as everything else is in place.
BTW, Tannehill is very underrated athletically. He was a very good WR when he started out at A&M.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
If Tannehill was such the difference maker, which he was when the stars aligned, why wasn't he the same difference maker in Miami? Miami traded him to the Titans who were initially thinking of him as nothing more than a QB2 to Mariota. Why did he become a different QB in Tennessee?

That Miami team was putrid .... it was really hard to know what you had in Tannehill , kinda like Watson in this dumpster fire but worse.

Tennessee was a solid team with hot and cold QB play (I see Mariota much like Watson in that aspect). Same things we've seen here with the big plays but few sustained drives - even with that running game.

Tennessee has gone 12-4 in the regular season and 2-1 in the post season since he took over.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
We can all cherry pick a few plays where he looks great .... then we can cherry pick just as many of him forcing it , missing a read , holding it too long.

Bottom line is he has to consistently be "Good Watson" because it only takes one bad play to ruin a drive.

Which Watson showed up in the first half against the Packers ? 21-0 at the half.

Which Watson showed up in the first quarter against the Titans ? 14-0 after a quarter.

Which Watson showed up in the first half against the Vikings ? 6 points in the first half.

Which Watson showed up in the second half against the Steelers ? Shut out in the second half.

Which Watson showed up against the Ravens ? 1st , 3rd & 4th quarters - 6 points.

Which Watson showed up in the first three quarters against the Chiefs ? 7 points thru 3 quarters.

Can he do it ? Sure he can .... Does he do it consistently , that's a pretty resounding No.

This is a recurring theme with Watson and this offense going back to last year and before.
6 points in the second half against Tampa
3 points in the first half against Denver.
3 scoreless quarters against Baltimore.
2 scoreless quarters and a 3 point quarter against Carolina
3 quarters 6 points against the Jags.

.

He's got to be more consistent , extend / sustain drives , not just rely upon big plays.
I don’t believe he was cherry picking. Don’t know why you would use that term because Earl has posted the good and the bad.

You are also acting like the greats don’t have games in which their offense wasn’t clicking o started off slow.

We all should know this kid wasn’t put in a situation to succeed. He’s having to learn in a very toxic environment. His offensive line hasn’t reached the top 20. The youngster doesn’t have a running game. He had to learn behind Tom Savage. Then he had to deal with the great wizard Bill O’Brien.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Just a little side thought on Steelb’s ‘lost decade’ mantra. It’s actually 9 years now since Schaub’s lisfranc injury. We had a really good team then with a decent-not-special QB running it successfully.

It took the Texans over a year to come to terms with the fact they needed to find a new QB, and several years to realise it was going to cost them huge draft assets to get one. In that time they allowed the team to regress from a really good one to a dumpster fire. Then ran a shoddy OL, running game and D through Watson’s rookie deal.

We’ve already lost a decade in which the highlights were a pair of playoff embarrassments.

Watson is fighting for his NFL career, but now that they are giving him a significant voice in his HC search, and setting up the org wrong again by giving the HC power over the GM (a huge mistake to place short term coaching above long term talent acquisition and forward planning).

They are setting up to do it wrong all over again.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I don’t believe he was cherry picking. Don’t know why you would use that term because Earl has posted the good and the bad.
It is cherry picking when he has more bad quarters than good.



You are also acting like the greats don’t have games in which their offense wasn’t clicking o started off slow.
Nope ... They all struggle here and there. The key is consistency.

We all should know this kid wasn’t put in a situation to succeed. He’s having to learn in a very toxic environment. His offensive line hasn’t reached the top 20. The youngster doesn’t have a running game. He had to learn behind Tom Savage. Then he had to deal with the great wizard Bill O’Brien.
Look at the post #159 .... "just like Tannehill in Miami - That team was putrid"
 

Earl34

All Pro
It is cherry picking when he has more bad quarters than good.





Nope ... They all struggle here and there. The key is consistency.



Look at the post #159 .... "just like Tannehill in Miami - That team was putrid"
It seems that inconsistency is feature of this game plan offense. Take Watson out of the equation. When has this offense been consistent? I can recall articles about Osweiler saying they need to sustain drives and be more consistent. If the offense was consistent and sustaining drives, O'Brien would not have made all of these QB switches. So, can you name one season before Watson was drafted where this offense was consistent?
 
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OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
That Miami team was putrid .... it was really hard to know what you had in Tannehill , kinda like Watson in this dumpster fire but worse.

Tennessee was a solid team with hot and cold QB play (I see Mariota much like Watson in that aspect). Same things we've seen here with the big plays but few sustained drives - even with that running game.

Tennessee has gone 12-4 in the regular season and 2-1 in the post season since he took over.
Ok, so Watson somehow made it to the Titans instead of Tannehill.....do the Titans enjoy the same success with Watson as QB1?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just a little side thought on Steelb’s ‘lost decade’ mantra. It’s actually 9 years now since Schaub’s lisfranc injury. We had a really good team then with a decent-not-special QB running it successfully.

It took the Texans over a year to come to terms with the fact they needed to find a new QB, and several years to realise it was going to cost them huge draft assets to get one. In that time they allowed the team to regress from a really good one to a dumpster fire. Then ran a shoddy OL, running game and D through Watson’s rookie deal.

We’ve already lost a decade in which the highlights were a pair of playoff embarrassments.

Watson is fighting for his NFL career, but now that they are giving him a significant voice in his HC search, and setting up the org wrong again by giving the HC power over the GM (a huge mistake to place short term coaching above long term talent acquisition and forward planning).

They are setting up to do it wrong all over again.
Great post
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It seems that inconsistency is feature of this game plan offense. Take Watson out of the equation. When has this offense been consistent? I can recall articles about Osweiler saying they need to sustain drives and be more consistent. If the offense was consistent and sustaining drives, O'Brien would not have made all of these QB switches. So, can you name one season before Watson was drafted where this offense was consistent?
The QBs before DW4 sucked, certainly a top 5 QB could run any offense better than what we've seen the last year and a half.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That Miami team was putrid .... it was really hard to know what you had in Tannehill , kinda like Watson in this dumpster fire but worse.

Tennessee was a solid team with hot and cold QB play (I see Mariota much like Watson in that aspect). Same things we've seen here with the big plays but few sustained drives - even with that running game.

Tennessee has gone 12-4 in the regular season and 2-1 in the post season since he took over.
In short, he's been playing at a very high level.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
It is cherry picking when he has more bad quarters than good.





Nope ... They all struggle here and there. The key is consistency.



Look at the post #159 .... "just like Tannehill in Miami - That team was putrid"
......and Tannehill sucked so bad, everybody in Miami wanted him out. Watson was strapped with the Texans and OB yet we somehow just can't understand why he hasn't drug the Texans up the Super Bowl hill to success. Does Miami need to dump Tannehill if they had just decided to build a team around him like the one he got upon hs arrival in Tennessee. What makes that thought even sadder......they had the ducking draft capital and cap space to assemble a very good to great team around him. I guess we'll have to wait and see how their building process goes with Tua.

The Texans have failed at every step of the way b/c they were under some false idea they were a top echelon team since they were winning the AFCS. The reality of who they really were greeted them each and every season in the playoffs. This sad reality falls directly on the shoulders of OB since he was essentially pulling the strings as GM from the time RS left the team.

If some on this board find Watson an overrated QB1 in the NFL, then put him on the market and let's see how NFL teams respond. Watson should pull, at minimum a couple of RD1 picks. To me, the Bears would be the most logical landing spot b/c they're truly a QB1 away and probably wouldn't be able to get one as good as Watson in the 2021 or 2022 draft.

Maybe as fans, some of us would like to jump on the QB merry-go-round again and hope the new regime can find a QB in the 2022 draft and build a team around him at the same time. The 2021 season would definitely set the new regime up nicely in the 2022 draft......probably the first pick overall.

Would Watson get in Chicago what Tannehill got in Tennessee?
 
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OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Just depends on if you think DW4 can become as consistent as Tannehil has been over the last yr and a half.

Odd how Tannehil has been ascending over the last year and a half while DW4'S been descending.
Again you didn't answer the question. Tannehill should be ascending based on his situation. Watson's situation, his team has gotten worse and the bad coaches are still in place. At what point was he to ascend?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If Tannehill was such the difference maker, which he was when the stars aligned, why wasn't he the same difference maker in Miami? Miami traded him to the Titans who were initially thinking of him as nothing more than a QB2 to Mariota. Why did he become a different QB in Tennessee?
I think it's more about the concept of team. You can take Henry off the Titans & Tannehill will still do well because their run game isn't all David Henry. Put a decent RB back there, with Tannehill & they're still going to
Odd how Tannehil has been ascending over the last year and a half while DW4'S been descending
How do you compare the Titans defense to the Texans defense?

How do you compare the Titans run game to the Texans run game?

It's not that "odd" when you look at it from a team aspect.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
We can all cherry pick a few plays where he looks great .... then we can cherry pick just as many of him forcing it , missing a read , holding it too long.

Bottom line is he has to consistently be "Good Watson" because it only takes one bad play to ruin a drive.

Which Watson showed up in the first half against the Packers ? 21-0 at the half.

Which Watson showed up in the first quarter against the Titans ? 14-0 after a quarter.

Which Watson showed up in the first half against the Vikings ? 6 points in the first half.

Which Watson showed up in the second half against the Steelers ? Shut out in the second half.

Which Watson showed up against the Ravens ? 1st , 3rd & 4th quarters - 6 points.

Which Watson showed up in the first three quarters against the Chiefs ? 7 points thru 3 quarters.

Can he do it ? Sure he can .... Does he do it consistently , that's a pretty resounding No.

This is a recurring theme with Watson and this offense going back to last year and before.
6 points in the second half against Tampa
3 points in the first half against Denver.
3 scoreless quarters against Baltimore.
2 scoreless quarters and a 3 point quarter against Carolina
3 quarters 6 points against the Jags.

.

He's got to be more consistent , extend / sustain drives , not just rely upon big plays.
Look at Peyton Manning in his fourth year.
After going 13-3 and 10-6, with Manning making the ProBowl the previous two years, the Colts ended up 6-10 in 2001 (last in the division).
Manning threw for 4,131 yards, but with 26 TDs vs. 23 Ints.
The Colts ranked 2nd in both yardage and points scored, but Manning was "inconsistent" as heck.
(And that was with a strong running game that ranked 7th).

3rd game, NE 13-44, zero point in the first half.
Manning threw 3 Ints, including a pick-six.

4th game, Raiders 18-23,
4th qtr, 1 min left, 1st and 10 and Colts 46, Manning threw an Int that sealed the game.

5th game, NE 17-38, 6 points in the first half, zero in the 4th (Manning lost a fumble on a sack).

8th game, Dolphins 24-27, Manning threw 2 Ints and lost another fumble on a sack.

9th game, Saints 20-34, 3 points in the second half (6 in the last 3 quarters),
With 1:58 left, on 2nd and 6, at the Saints' 9yd line, Manning threw an Int that sealed the game.

10th game, Niners 21-30, Manning threw 4 Ints.

11th game, Ravens 27-39,
Trailing by 5 (27-32) in the fourth with 1:47 left, on 1st and 10 from their 26, Manning threw a pick-six to practically end the game.

12th game, Dolphins 6-41,
Manning threw for 173 yards, with 3 Ints.

14th game, Jets 28-29,
With 32 seconds left, the Colts had 2nd and 3 from their 40.
Plenty of time to get into FG range.
Manning threw two incompletions.
On 4th down, his pass to Harrison netted zero yard.

15th game, Rams 17-42, 3 points in the second half (first drive of the second half).
Manning threw an Int at the goal line early in the 4th, and went 0-2 on the next (and also the last) drive.

......................

That, my friend, is called real INCONSISTENCY.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I think it's more about the concept of team. You can take Henry off the Titans & Tannehill will still do well because their run game isn't all David Henry. Put a decent RB back there, with Tannehill & they're still going to

How do you compare the Titans defense to the Texans defense?

How do you compare the Titans run game to the Texans run game?

It's not that "odd" when you look at it from a team aspect.
Exactly. What's odd is that certain poster(s) tend to ignore complementary football when they compare Watson to other QBs. I guess the flavor of the month is to compare him to Tannehill while ignoring Tannehill has a RB on his team that shortens the game, moves the chains, keep LBs at home, have safeties cheating up and keep the chains moving while on pace for almost 2000 yards of total offense.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I think it's more about the concept of team. You can take Henry off the Titans & Tannehill will still do well because their run game isn't all David Henry. Put a decent RB back there, with Tannehill & they're still going to

How do you compare the Titans defense to the Texans defense?

How do you compare the Titans run game to the Texans run game?

It's not that "odd" when you look at it from a team aspect.
With Tannehill, the Titans only won two games in the regular season last year against an opponent with a winning record.
Against the Chiefs, they benefited from a fumble return and Henry gaining 225 yards on the ground.
Against the Texans, AJ McCarron was playing.
 

Earl34

All Pro
With Tannehill, the Titans only won two games in the regular season last year against an opponent with a winning record.
Against the Chiefs, they benefited from a fumble return and Henry gaining 225 yards on the ground.
Against the Texans, AJ McCarron was playing.
Not fair. You're not allowed to bring up playing against terrible teams/defenses when discussing the performances of QBs who are not on the Texans' roster.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
If Tannehill was such the difference maker, which he was when the stars aligned, why wasn't he the same difference maker in Miami? Miami traded him to the Titans who were initially thinking of him as nothing more than a QB2 to Mariota. Why did he become a different QB in Tennessee?
Was Vrabel really only thinking of him as nothing more that a QB2 to Mariota though..?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Good point. However, Mariota started 6 games and was benched in week 6 after throwing 2 INTs, a 9.6 QB rating and a 2-4 record. If he thought Tannehill was better, he sure waited a long time to bench Mariota.
Those were also the only two picks he threw in all of those 6 games. It was just the right justification to yank him and insert Tannehill without having to think whatsoever about looking back.

Anyway, just a theory.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Absolutely, great touch & accuracy.

But that's not double coverage. Especially not when DW4 threw the ball. Safety was out of position, couldn't get to it in time.
Cover 2 does not imply double coverage. It describes how many players are playing deep. Watson can't make accurate throws with anticipation. That's been touted, ad nauseum, all over this forum. :kitten:
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Was Vrabel really only thinking of him as nothing more that a QB2 to Mariota though..?
I have no idea, but last season when they made that trade for Tannehill, I had said on this forum somewhere, that it might end up being the best move they made.
No, I don't have vision, but I do know that Tannehill had run the WCO all his career, since college at least.
He's definitely a good fit for the Titans.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Titans running game last season and so far this season...
Henry 446 carries / 2,203 yards /4.9 YPC
RB's NOT named Henry / 76 carries / 318 yards / 4.1 YPC

Great YPC average, but dude has almost 300 more carries than any other RB on that team. My opinion is that Henry is the running game.
And that was with Henry nursing an injury early on.

TK was just his usual self, playing devil advocate.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Was Vrabel really only thinking of him as nothing more that a QB2 to Mariota though..?
It was a hedged bet. The OC had had the chop the previous off season. Arthur Smith was given 2 reclaimation project QBs to work with as OC and they would have been all in on drafting one high had neither worked out.
 

Decim8

Waterboy
He didn’t. He’s the same QB on a better team.
Good OL, Good RB, Good TE, Good WR1, Good D.
The game isn’t put on Tannehill’s shoulders, he isn’t asked to carry the team. The scheme is always manageable and their options aren’t limited by situation anywhere near as much as it was in Miami for him.
Complimentary football in action rather than some little phrase we spout as an aspiration.
You don’t need a great, athletic QB to win in the NFL. You can get by with a system QB as long as everything else is in place.
I think it's more about the concept of team. You can take Henry off the Titans & Tannehill will still do well because their run game isn't all David Henry. Put a decent RB back there, with Tannehill & they're still going to

How do you compare the Titans defense to the Texans defense?

How do you compare the Titans run game to the Texans run game?

It's not that "odd" when you look at it from a team aspect.
Bingo!!!
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Good point. However, Mariota started 6 games and was benched in week 6 after throwing 2 INTs, a 9.6 QB rating and a 2-4 record. If he thought Tannehill was better, he sure waited a long time to bench Mariota.
That team just put a bunch of assets in Mariota who had bad luck with injuries. They were giving him every opportunity to be the guy they drafted him to be.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
If Tannehill and the Titans didn’t have an elite running game, I don’t believe they would be this good. Having an elite running back with a very solid offensive line opens up the offense that much. And it makes it that much easier for a half decent quarterback to succeed.


I wish we had that luxury here in Houston.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Ok, so Watson somehow made it to the Titans instead of Tannehill.....do the Titans enjoy the same success with Watson as QB1?

Good question ....

I think they would be better with DW4 than they were with Mariota but I don't think they would be as good as they are with Tannehill.
The reason for that is that these guys are two different types of players , Watson is a better version of Mariota .... big plays but not much sustained offense where Tannehill is the polar opposite they sustain drives and control the clock / game with shorter throws but he doesn't make a as many big plays.

To me , the way Tannehill approaches the position is more conducive to winning football in the NFL. Its more about moving the sticks than trying to take big chunks.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Good question ....

I think they would be better with DW4 than they were with Mariota but I don't think they would be as good as they are with Tannehill.
The reason for that is that these guys are two different types of players , Watson is a better version of Mariota .... big plays but not much sustained offense where Tannehill is the polar opposite they sustain drives and control the clock / game with shorter throws but he doesn't make a as many big plays.

To me , the way Tannehill approaches the position is more conducive to winning football in the NFL. Its more about moving the sticks than trying to take big chunks.
I kinda see what you're saying, but with their run game vs ours, it's hard to say. & I'm not just talking about Henry vs Hyde/Johnson or their OL vs our OL, but also the WYSIWYG bland/predictable approach we take to running the ball.


I'm not arguing Tannehill is a more conservative, careful with the football QB. He is. But in Miami he was prone to a little hero ball himself. & he ain't as good as Watson at that.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Exactly. What's odd is that certain poster(s) tend to ignore complementary football when they compare Watson to other QBs. I guess the flavor of the month is to compare him to Tannehill while ignoring Tannehill has a RB on his team that shortens the game, moves the chains, keep LBs at home, have safeties cheating up and keep the chains moving while on pace for almost 2000 yards of total offense.
And this is where you are wrong - I admit the fact that Tannehill has a better team around him and a great RB.

What you guys don't see is that Tannehill's approach to the position very much compliments those things too .... while Watson's approach is more like Mariota's in looking for big plays instead of just moving the sticks. That's why that team took off when they made the QB change.
Mariota was / is much more dynamic than Tannehill , much like Watson he can escape pressure and is at his best scrambling around .... but in the NFL you simply aren't going to make enough of those kind of plays to win consistently , especially against the better teams.
 
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Decim8

Waterboy
They'll probably start running right.


I tell you Derrick Henry could be on this team & he won't be breaking 94 yard runs. The gaps would be small & he'll rarely see the 2nd level.

He'll do better than 31, but he won't be leading the league in rushing.
Probably true, but you can't tell me the other teams won't respect the run though
 


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