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The Actual and Real 2017 Texans Talk Mock Draft Extravaganza

bah007 said:
With pick #171 Buffalo selects Jordan Evans - LB, Oklahoma
.
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Why do you think this guy didn't get a combine invite? Unknown character issues? And why did DeDe Westbrook get an invite and Chad Kelly did not? The NFL is so wildly inconsistent with this invite thing.
 
I'm back, at least for the next couple hours. Unfortunately, tomorrow is going to be another long day at work, and I have a bunch of picks coming up. Let's see if I can successfully leave a large enough list to cover it. If not, group pick for me right away.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Found the thread on him. Pretty high praise.

So elite game manager is his ceiling..... would be about the best QB the Texans ever had.
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I guess. At this point in the draft, there's a wide discrepancy in opinion. Here and in NFL draft rooms. Think of draft opinion as a cone. In the beginning, everyone's opinion is fairly close. The further along, the wider the difference is. By the time the 5th round rolls around, you see "What a steal this guy is!". And another guy is thinking "They actually spent a draft choice on that guy?"
 
gs27 said:
There is so much day 3 talent in this years draft. I will be upset if we sacrifice a day 3 pick to move up a couple of spots in any round. Plenty of talent, just need to let this draft come to us and if we get a chance to collect a couple extra picks by moving back, even better.
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Prepare to be disappointed.

When it comes to Texans drafts if you aren't then you will be pleasantly surprised.
 
bah007 said:
D.J. Jones (7) - Mollywhopper, bah007, beerlover, mussop, PapaL, kiwitexansfan, Max
Brendan Langley (2) - TexansSeminole, jradMIT
Robert Davis (2) - gs27, TheRealJoker
Elijah Hood (1) - WolverineFan
Eddie Vanderdoes (1) - Lucky
Click to expand...
 
kiwitexansfan said:
I've got pretty firm views on the running back position. I hate to draft them, there is so much production found in UDFA and disregarded prospects.

That and they have such short life spans normally make them poor use of draft collateral.
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Plenty of teams feel they are worth it, even in the first.
Walter Peyton was #4 overall in the '75 draft.
Earl Campbell was taken #1 overall in '78.
Eric Dickerson was the second pick of the '83 draft.
Barry Sanders was 3rd overall in the '88 draft.
Emmit Smith was 17th overall in '90.
Ladanian Tomlinson 5th overall in '01.

Guess it's safe to say I disagree.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
I've got pretty firm views on the running back position. I hate to draft them, there is so much production found in UDFA and disregarded prospects.

That and they have such short life spans normally make them poor use of draft collateral.
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Plenty of teams feel they are worth it, even in the first.
Walter Peyton was #4 overall in the '75 draft.
Earl Campbell was taken #1 overall in '78.
Eric Dickerson was the second pick of the '83 draft.
Barry Sanders was 3rd overall in the '88 draft.
Emmit Smith was 17th overall in '90.
Ladanian Tomlinson 5th overall in '01.
Marshawn Lynch 17th overall in '05.
Adrian Peterson 7th overall in '07.

Guess it's safe to say I disagree.
 
Texansphan said:
Plenty of teams feel they are worth it, even in the first.
Walter Peyton was #4 overall in the '75 draft.
Earl Campbell was taken #1 overall in '78.
Eric Dickerson was the second pick of the '83 draft.
Barry Sanders was 3rd overall in the '88 draft.
Emmit Smith was 17th overall in '90.
Ladanian Tomlinson 5th overall in '01.
Marshawn Lynch 17th overall in '05.
Adrian Peterson 7th overall in '07.

Guess it's safe to say I disagree.
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That was the 3 yards and a cloud of dust league of the past. It's a passing league now. Add in the fact that there is less drop off between the best Rb drafted and like the 5th compared to other positions. Also if you look at all the rbs drafted in the top ten the past 10 years, they seldom live up to expectations. As the league has shifted to more analytics driven your seeing less of the highly drafted Rb, the most valuable ones are the ones who can be integral in the pass game like a Faulk or LT. You can even see in FA how guards are making far more money than any of the FA backs.


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Texansphan said:
Plenty of teams feel they are worth it, even in the first.
Walter Peyton was #4 overall in the '75 draft.
Earl Campbell was taken #1 overall in '78.
Eric Dickerson was the second pick of the '83 draft.
Barry Sanders was 3rd overall in the '88 draft.
Emmit Smith was 17th overall in '90.
Ladanian Tomlinson 5th overall in '01.

Guess it's safe to say I disagree.
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Fred Jackson
Arian Foster
Priest Holmes

All UDFA, all 90% of what you got with those super high draft picks.

Ron Dayne
Trent Richardson
Blair Thomas
Tommy Vardell
Rashan Salaam
Tim Biakabatuka
Alonzo Highsmith
Curtis Enis
KiJana Carter
Lawrence Philips

Names that didn't make your list of great first round backs?
 
Steelers select Jerod Evans - QB, Virginia Tech

Big Ben is nearing the end of the line. Steelers like Landry Jones but could use the #3 spot to develop another QB. Evans has a ton of physical tools but is extremely raw.
 
Texansphan said:
Plenty of teams feel they are worth it, even in the first.
Walter Peyton was #4 overall in the '75 draft.
Earl Campbell was taken #1 overall in '78.
Eric Dickerson was the second pick of the '83 draft.
Barry Sanders was 3rd overall in the '88 draft.
Emmit Smith was 17th overall in '90.
Ladanian Tomlinson 5th overall in '01.
Marshawn Lynch 17th overall in '05.
Adrian Peterson 7th overall in '07.

Guess it's safe to say I disagree.
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The most recent guy on that list was drafted a decade ago. Different style of ball these days
 
htownfan32 said:
The most recent guy on that list was drafted a decade ago. Different style of ball these days
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I'm pretty happy with my McCaffery pick for the Bucs. Ran in a power scheme, runs routes/has hands like a WR. Is a great KR/PR. Put him with a QB like Winston and I think the Bucs have something special, certainly worth a 1st rd pick.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm pretty happy with my McCaffery pick for the Bucs. Ran in a power scheme, runs routes/has hands like a WR. Is a great KR/PR. Put him with a QB like Winston and I think the Bucs have something special, certainly worth a 1st rd pick.
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McCaffrey is a bit different because he suits the new style of football expected of a RB: a jack of all trades. Teams have been using RBs in the passing game, short yardage and creating mismatches with linebackers or forcing teams to spread coverage in ways that allow receivers to get open 1 on 1... swiss army knife types can do real well in today's leagues. He's more of an offensive weapon in general than what you think when you call a guy like AP or Marshawn Lynch a running back
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm pretty happy with my McCaffery pick for the Bucs. Ran in a power scheme, runs routes/has hands like a WR. Is a great KR/PR. Put him with a QB like Winston and I think the Bucs have something special, certainly worth a 1st rd pick.
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I consider a 1st round RB either the cherry on top, or the bandaid for not having a top QB. If you have a Bortles, a top RB makes sense. If you have a Brady, not so much.
 
gs27 said:
The Packers select Jalen Reeves Maybin - ILB, Tennessee

More on pick later
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The fans would be screaming that the Packers have not drafted a running back but that is the advantage of having a winning franchise, your FO gets a mandate.

Last season the Pack had one of the most efficient offenses in the NFL down the stretch with only Montgomery and Ripkowski available to run the ball and TJ Lang injured.

Their defense is another story. Currently they dont have a true NT on the roster, so I added Elijah Qualls in the 3rd. Other than the obvious glaring need for 2 starting corners, the Packers also need an athletic coverage linebacker to pair with downhill thumper Jake Ryan. Jalen Reeves Maybin is that perfect compliment. Had Maybin been eligible after 2015 he might have been a fringe 1st round pick. Doctors say he is ready to begin training again so Green Bay could be getting a steal here.

The other advantage the Packers have is being the most attractive landing spot for FAs and UFAs RBs after the draft.

Maybin also allows Burnett to settle in as a true SS.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Fred Jackson
Arian Foster
Priest Holmes

All UDFA, all 90% of what you got with those super high draft picks.

Ron Dayne
Trent Richardson
Blair Thomas
Tommy Vardell
Rashan Salaam
Tim Biakabatuka
Alonzo Highsmith
Curtis Enis
KiJana Carter
Lawrence Philips

Names that didn't make your list of great first round backs?
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Does not change the fact that teams are willing to take them high - ergo, they are valued, which was my point.
 
Lucky said:
I consider a 1st round RB either the cherry on top, or the bandaid for not having a top QB. If you have a Bortles, a top RB makes sense. If you have a Brady, not so much.
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I really hope the jags take Fournette, I think he will underwhelm in the pros.


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Lucky said:
I consider a 1st round RB either the cherry on top, or the bandaid for not having a top QB. If you have a Bortles, a top RB makes sense. If you have a Brady, not so much.
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Precisely, and this could very well be the situation the Texans find themselves in.
Nothing wrong with insurance.
 
The drop off isn't like the drop off at other positions that's why you can find rbs late. When you look at the more important positions qbs, edge, tackles, WRs and CBs there is a steep drop off. I wouldn't draft an Rb high unless there were some pretty extraordinary circumstances, or he was going to be an integral weapon in the passing game.


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Texansphan said:
Does not change the fact that teams are willing to take them high - ergo, they are valued, which was my point.
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The fact teams will do something is an indictment of the stupidity of some teams.

I'm not saying some teams don't value them, just saying I don't.

A good scheme, decent line and a JAG will give you enough run game to keep teams honest.
 
Texansphan said:
Hmm...then why does every pundit say you don't only need a passing game, but a running game too...
You can't become one dimensional.
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I think he means the new style is much more pass dominant, given the rule changes and subsequent changes in offensive schemes.

Agreed that you can't become one dimensional, but we've seen that teams are able to find capable, even league leading backs in later rounds. I think that has a lot more to do with the fact that RB is pretty easy to pick up right away, and teams aren't leaning on it heavily as they did in the past. There isn't a lot that is changing for those players from college to the NFL, outside of the speed and strength of the players they play with and against. At WR, QB, OL, and all defensive positions, the game is more sophisticated and there is a larger learning curve. At RB, a guy picked in the 4th round can come in and pretty much do what he did in college, with maybe some emphasis on learning pass blocking, but otherwise it's very similar. I think the mere number of guys that are projected to contribute actually pushes the top guys' value down. Just my opinion on maybe why RB isn't taken as early as it used to be.

I will say that I think Fournette, obviously if given a good line to play with, will be a very good back in the NFL. Same goes for Cook.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
The fact teams will do something is an indictment of the stupidity of some teams.

I'm not saying some teams don't value them, just saying I don't.

A good scheme, decent line and a JAG will give you enough run game to keep teams honest.
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Curious, how many teams without outstanding QB play and a JAG RB have been in conference championship games the last few years?

I don't think you'll find very many.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Curious, how many teams without outstanding QB play and a JAG RB have been in conference championship games the last few years?

I don't think you'll find very many.
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How many teams without outstanding QB play have been in conference championships?

Or how many run dominant teams have made the conference champs?

I can't tell you and I'm too lazy to look it up. To be honest I'm a Texans fan and don't really give a @#$# about the rest of the NFL.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
The fact teams will do something is an indictment of the stupidity of some teams.

I'm not saying some teams don't value them, just saying I don't.

A good scheme, decent line and a JAG will give you enough run game to keep teams honest.
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You forgot a good passer in your equation, which is something Texans are not sure of atm.
I agree about the line and scheme, but if your passer is JAG (enter Texans), then you better make DAMN sure your running game is solid to offset any deficiencies.
We have seen three seasons now of teams stacking the box because they are not afraid of Texans passing game and we don't have the QB or the backs to challenge them. Texans are not likely to have a better than average passing game to keep the bastards honest so line and ground game have to make up for the shortfall.
Personally, I am not thrilled at the guys behind Miller and he cannot hit it up 30 times a game for 16+ games and be fresh. Or last very long in this league.
 
jradMIT said:
The drop off isn't like the drop off at other positions that's why you can find rbs late. When you look at the more important positions qbs, edge, tackles, WRs and CBs there is a steep drop off. I wouldn't draft an Rb high unless there were some pretty extraordinary circumstances, or he was going to be an integral weapon in the passing game.


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This is a deep draft for RB's which is why they need to take one in the first 5 rounds - better chance on hitting on a decent one - less risk.
O'Brien loves to run the rock and understandably so - especially with our QB situation. Miller needs some help, so why not another weapon back there?
 
kiwitexansfan said:
How many teams without outstanding QB play have been in conference championships?

Or how many run dominant teams have made the conference champs?

I can't tell you and I'm too lazy to look it up. To be honest I'm a Texans fan and don't really give a @#$# about the rest of the NFL.
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Not many, but many of those teams aren't lining up with JAGs at RB either.

I just think the argument to have almost whomever as a cog at RB is a little blown out of proportion. That's easy to say when you have a Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, or Brees at QB. In the meantime guys like Leveon Bell, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, Jon Stewart, Devonta Freeman, Tevin Coleman, and David Johnson have been thoroughly contributing to their teams' success of late. And these guys are hardly JAG-level.

Zeke Elliott would still be a very productive back even without the good fortune of Dallas' great oline, and it's a shame Todd Gurley has had nothing to work with in LA. Idk, I think those guys, and the Fournettes, Cooks, and McCaffreys of the draft, could well be difference makers to any competent offense and are deserving of first/second round selections.
 
remember when he came out of College, thought he could drop to the Texans, except for one team ahead then two more teams, after trade with Atlanta in a draft that landed Amobi Okoye :gun:
 
This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I'm not really sure which side I'm on but I did some digging just for fun. Looks to me that the spread among the top ten rushers in the league last year is pretty wide open. We all know the best players get drafted in the first round. But it doesn't look like you need to draft a top tier RB to get top end production from the position.

Top Ten Rushers
Ezekiel Elliott - 1st
Jordan Howard - 5th
Demarco Murray - 3rd
Jay Ajayi - 5th
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd
LeSean McCoy - 2nd
David Johnson - 3rd
LeGarrette Blount - UDFA
Devonta Freeman - 4th
Lamar Miller - 4th


It doesn't seem like lacking a high pick at RB is a sure ticket to getting kicked out of the playoffs early either.

Final Six Teams
Patriots - UDFA
Falcons - 4th
Steelers - 2nd
Packers - 3rd (WR)
Chiefs - 6th
Cowboys - 1st


However, notice that four of those six teams have a RB that finished in the top ten in rushing yards. So while it may not be necessary to draft a top tier RB, it appears that it is necessary to be able to run the ball to have success.

I guess where I stand is:

It doesn't seem absolutely necessary to use a high draft pick on a RB. But it does seem necessary to be able to run the ball if you want to be successful. It appears that it is not impossible to find a talented back that fits your system later in the draft.
 
beerlover said:
remember when he came out of College, thought he could drop to the Texans, except for one team ahead then two more teams, after trade with Atlanta in a draft that landed Amobi Okoye :gun:
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Brilliance

Not much has changed in a decade.
 
bah007 said:
This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I'm not really sure which side I'm on but I did some digging just for fun. Looks to me that the spread among the top ten rushers in the league last year is pretty wide open. We all know the best players get drafted in the first round. But it doesn't look like you need to draft a top tier RB to get top end production from the position.

Top Ten Rushers
Ezekiel Elliott - 1st
Jordan Howard - 5th
Demarco Murray - 3rd
Jay Ajayi - 5th
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd
LeSean McCoy - 2nd
David Johnson - 3rd
LeGarrette Blount - UDFA
Devonta Freeman - 4th
Lamar Miller - 4th


It doesn't seem like having a top tier back is a sure ticket to getting deep into the playoffs either.

Final Six Teams
Patriots - UDFA
Falcons - 4th
Steelers - 2nd
Packers - 3rd (WR)
Chiefs - 6th
Cowboys - 1st


However, notice that four of those six teams have a RB that finished in the top ten in rushing yards. So while it may not be necessary to draft a top tier RB, it appears that it is necessary to be able to run the ball to have success.

I guess where I stand is:

It doesn't seem absolutely necessary to use a high draft pick on a RB. But it does seem necessary to be able to run the ball if you want to be successful.
Click to expand...

And to run the ball you need an above avg OL.

Which is something the final 6 teams all had.
 
bah007 said:
This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I'm not really sure which side I'm on but I did some digging just for fun. Looks to me that the spread among the top ten rushers in the league last year is pretty wide open. We all know the best players get drafted in the first round. But it doesn't look like you need to draft a top tier RB to get top end production from the position.

Top Ten Rushers
Ezekiel Elliott - 1st
Jordan Howard - 5th
Demarco Murray - 3rd
Jay Ajayi - 5th
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd
LeSean McCoy - 2nd
David Johnson - 3rd
LeGarrette Blount - UDFA
Devonta Freeman - 4th
Lamar Miller - 4th


It doesn't seem like lacking a high pick at RB is a sure ticket to getting kicked out of the playoffs early either.

Final Six Teams
Patriots - UDFA
Falcons - 4th
Steelers - 2nd
Packers - 3rd (WR)
Chiefs - 6th
Cowboys - 1st


However, notice that four of those six teams have a RB that finished in the top ten in rushing yards. So while it may not be necessary to draft a top tier RB, it appears that it is necessary to be able to run the ball to have success.

I guess where I stand is:

It doesn't seem absolutely necessary to use a high draft pick on a RB. But it does seem necessary to be able to run the ball if you want to be successful. It appears that it is not impossible to find a talented back that fits your system later in the draft.
Click to expand...

Exactly the point, somehow this debate morphed into you don't need an Rb when it was really you don't need to use a high pick for a good Rb. It's still a passing league, but running the ball is still important as a way to control tempo, keep the d honest, red zone etc. However successful running games don't need high picks as ball carriers and they are very dependent on the offensive lines in front of them. There are more successful rbs drafted after round 1 than before. Throw in the short life span of a Rb and I wouldn't opt to grab a guy in round 1 under normal circumstances.


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bah007 said:
This is an interesting argument you guys are having. I'm not really sure which side I'm on but I did some digging just for fun. Looks to me that the spread among the top ten rushers in the league last year is pretty wide open. We all know the best players get drafted in the first round. But it doesn't look like you need to draft a top tier RB to get top end production from the position.

Top Ten Rushers
Ezekiel Elliott - 1st
Jordan Howard - 5th
Demarco Murray - 3rd
Jay Ajayi - 5th
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd
LeSean McCoy - 2nd
David Johnson - 3rd
LeGarrette Blount - UDFA
Devonta Freeman - 4th
Lamar Miller - 4th


It doesn't seem like lacking a high pick at RB is a sure ticket to getting kicked out of the playoffs early either.

Final Six Teams
Patriots - UDFA
Falcons - 4th
Steelers - 2nd
Packers - 3rd (WR)
Chiefs - 6th
Cowboys - 1st


However, notice that four of those six teams have a RB that finished in the top ten in rushing yards. So while it may not be necessary to draft a top tier RB, it appears that it is necessary to be able to run the ball to have success.

I guess where I stand is:

It doesn't seem absolutely necessary to use a high draft pick on a RB. But it does seem necessary to be able to run the ball if you want to be successful. It appears that it is not impossible to find a talented back that fits your system later in the draft.
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I can't believe that after all the time you've spent on TT.com you are still making coherent reasonable arguments.... can you not be corrupted at all?
 
5 (176) Cincinnati - @mussop
5 (177) Denver - infantrycak -
5 (178) Miami - htownfan32 -
5 (179) Arizona - Shishkabob -
5 (180) Kansas City - WolverineFan -
5 (181) Cleveland - rmartin65 -
 
Mollywhopper said:
Not many, but many of those teams aren't lining up with JAGs at RB either.

I just think the argument to have almost whomever as a cog at RB is a little blown out of proportion. That's easy to say when you have a Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, or Brees at QB. In the meantime guys like Leveon Bell, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, Jon Stewart, Devonta Freeman, Tevin Coleman, and David Johnson have been thoroughly contributing to their teams' success of late. And these guys are hardly JAG-level.

Zeke Elliott would still be a very productive back even without the good fortune of Dallas' great oline, and it's a shame Todd Gurley has had nothing to work with in LA. Idk, I think those guys, and the Fournettes, Cooks, and McCaffreys of the draft, could well be difference makers to any competent offense and are deserving of first/second round selections.
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One of the reasons the Patriots are so hard to defend is the fact that they will hurt you in the air and on the ground.
You need to cover all the receiving threats so cannot stack the box - so when they keep their safeties, corners and MLB's and ILB's back off the line a little - that's when you can hit defenses with a hammer like Blount and pick up those easy 3-4 yards and moves chains.
 
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