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Texans trade Osweiller to Browns

Corrosion said:
If they sign Romo You can forget about a Comp Pick for Bouye Even tho no one knows the actual formula , they'd essentially offset one another.
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While no one knows the compensatory pick formula, they do know that players picked up in trade or street free agency don't affect compensation picks. Just players lost or acquired in regular free agency.
 
Lucky said:
Other than DeMeco Ryans, I can't think of another Texan Pro Bowler taken in the 2nd.
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Conner Barwin? Not for us of course but I think he was a second round pick. That's about it. Jason Babin was the second player we took that year but that was still in the first round so "sort of maybe?" but again, not a Pro Bowler for us.
 
Lucky said:
While no one knows the compensatory pick formula, they do know that players picked up in trade or street free agency don't affect compensation picks. Just players lost or acquired in regular free agency.
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Romo if cut would be just like any other free agent .... or are you saying he wouldn't count for comp pick purposes ?
 
Hervoyel said:
Conner Barwin? Not for us of course but I think he was a second round pick. That's about it. Jason Babin was the second player we took that year but that was still in the first round so "sort of maybe?" but again, not a Pro Bowler for us.
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Right, not a Texan pro bowler. I think the point is, yeah it sucks to give up that pick. But it shouldn't stop them from getting rid of Brick Osweiler and his $16 million.
 
Corrosion said:
Romo if cut would be just like any other free agent .... or are you saying he wouldn't count for comp pick purposes ?
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If Romo is cut, he becomes what's referred to as a street free agent. Like Manning was when the Colts released him. They're not considered in compensation as the team willfully lost the players. And because they aren't considered for the team losing the player, they aren't considered for the team acquiring the player.
 
Lucky said:
If Romo is cut, he becomes what's referred to as a street free agent. Like Manning was when the Colts released him. They're not considered in compensation as the team willfully lost the players. And because they aren't considered for the team losing the player, they aren't considered for the team acquiring the player.
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Not accurate. He counts as a Texan signing but not as a loss for the Cowboys.
 
Lucky said:
I think the point is not to celebrate the original incompetence. This is like drinking Milk of Magnesia. It tastes bad, but you have to do it. Now, on to the next bad decision!
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But what was done was done, now they are doing their best to fix the mistake. It is a key to all aspects of life !
 
dalemurphy said:
Not accurate. He counts as a Texan signing but not as a loss for the Cowboys.
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It is accurate, dale. Here's a recent example.

The Packers did not sign any free agents that would factor into the compensatory formula. Tight end Jared Cook did not count. He was considered a street free agent because he was released by his former team. Only unrestricted free agents count in the formula.
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Here's an explanation of the rule.

In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); he must sign during the UFA signing period (which ended July 27 last year); if he signs after June 1[*], he must have been tendered a June 1 qualifying offer by his old team; his compensatory value or contract value must be above a specific minimum amount; and he cannot have been permanently released by his new team before a certain point in the season (which seems to be after Week 10) or, possibly, before getting a certain amount of playing time, unless he was claimed off waivers by another team.

*On 2015, this date was switched to May 12, and in 2016 it was May 10. It is believed that the cutoff date in future years will be the second Tuesday after the draft.
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powda said:
Im a whiner and i dont mind they took a shot on oz. Really havent been a lot of qb options.

Im not pissed about that.

We gave up a 2nd round pick to get rid of him rather than sitting on it for a year. And it's not as if we were in cap hell. It's not as if we're doing it to snatch up someone great we couldn't afford. Nope.

So many more options available to free up cap that dont give up draft commodities. So few draft commodities. If you dont get that i dont know what to tell you.

And i wont stfu. You can keep blinders on if you like. Ignorance is bliss i guess.
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This... especially if your plan was to draft a 1st/2nd round QB & give Savage a shot.
 
JB said:
I applaud Rick for getting rid of Os albatross. I don't understand the foregone conclusion it was to sign Romo. Could be, but that would be like exchanging a dirty/shitty diaper for a dirty/wet one.

Maybe, just maybe they have something else in mind like trading for Jimmy G or other QB out of the blue. Can't evaluate this trade until all the moves have been made and in the books. Maybe they have a plan to get Smith from KC so the Chiefs can sign Romo. Just a thought, but it ain't over yet so no use crying yet.

If they do sign Romo, Rick Smith, OB and the McNairs should be run out of town on a rail imo
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If Belichick is not going to trade Garoppolo to us because of the competition thing. The Chiefs aren't going to trade Alex Smith to us for the same reason.
 
thunderkyss said:
The part that eludes me is the importance of the $10M savings. Right now it has no value to me so I can't factor it into the merit of this trade.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure had we designated him a June 1st cut his cap hit for 2017 would be the same, as if he played. We wouldn't gain any cap space, we wouldn't have lost any additional. We'd gain a roster spot.

The remaining $6M from his signing bonus would apply to 2018.
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His contract was $37 million guaranteed. We gave him $12 million signing bonus which prorates $3 million cap hit each year of the contract. Since we traded him the $9 million which would have been spread out over the next 3 years goes directly against this year's cap. If Osweiller stayed his cap hit would've been $19 million, but since he's gone it'a only $9 million. So no it wouldn't be the same with him.

Edit: if he played we'd have a $19 million cap hit ($16 million base salary plus prorated $3 million from signing bonus). If cut June 1st he'd still have the $16 million cap hit for base salary but the remaining $9 million signing bonus cap hit would all go again 2017(or maybe $6 million next year I think) making it $25 million total cap hit. So we actually saved $16 million by not cutting him (which likely wasn't an option) and instead trading him to the Browns who have over $100 million in cap room.
 
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cbs1507 said:
His contract was $37 million guaranteed. We gave him $12 million signing bonus which prorates $3 million cap hit each year of the contract. Since we traded him the $9 million which would have been spread out over the next 3 years goes directly against this year's cap. If Osweiller stayed his cap hit would've been $19 million, but since he's gone it'a only $9 million. So no it wouldn't be the same with him.
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Is this true? I read through the thread but couldn't find it.
 
General observation here, but I'm guessing a lot of the anger stems from the fact that Oz should have never been given the contract he signed last year to begin with. Was a huge leap of faith. But even if one didn't like that contract offering, its fair to still hope to be proven wrong. For all of those who questioned the signing to begin with, and after enduring the past season, it finally came full circle and they were all proven right yesterday.

This is the appropriate time to be mad. Tomorrow we can move on.

I was an eye rolling face palmer when we reached for Oz, but was happy it meant the end of the Hoyer era. Fast forward a year and now I'm happy it's the end of the Oz era.

PLEASE GOD... Please let the cycle break! I'm starting to get used to this.
 
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dalemurphy said:
Correct... But we added cap space, added a draft pick to next month's draft, and opened up a roster spot that will be filled with a new QB... So, the odds are good that our QB situation is about to improve.
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correction...we traded this year's 6th and next year's 2nd (and Osweiller) for their 4th. We didn't add a pick. We essentially converted a 6th to a 4th this year and of course got out of a bad contract.

TexansBull said:
Is this true? I read through the thread but couldn't find it.
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I edited my post to expound...
 
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dalemurphy said:
You are misunderstanding the rule. I promise. If Romo is cut and then signed by Houston, his signing will have a negative effect on the Texans compensatory picks. However, his signing will not help the Cowboys receive a compensatory selection.
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This is simply incorrect. In order to qualify for the compensatory formula - on either side - you've got to be an unrestricted free agent (UFA). The definition of a UFA is one who's contract expired, and specifically excludes someone released by his previous team.

Here's an excerpt from Over The Cap's explanation. I defy you to find something (other than your own assertions) that suppports your position that the UFA thing only applies to the team losing the player.
In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team)
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http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/
 
cbs1507 said:
His contract was $37 million guaranteed. We gave him $12 million signing bonus which prorates $3 million cap hit each year of the contract. Since we traded him the $9 million which would have been spread out over the next 3 years goes directly against this year's cap. If Osweiller stayed his cap hit would've been $19 million, but since he's gone it'a only $9 million. So no it wouldn't be the same with him.

Edit: if he played we'd have a $19:million cap hit ($16 million base salary plus prorated $3 million from signing bonus). If cut June 1st he'd still have the $16 million cap hit for base salary but the remaining $9 million signing bonus cap hit would all go again 2017(or maybe $6 million next year I think) making it $25 million total cap hit. So we actually saved $16 million by not cutting him and instead trading him to the Browns who have over $100 million in cap room.
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If we designated him a June 1st cut his cap hit would have been exactly the same had he played. $16M salary, $3M signing bonus. The additional $6M from the bonus would be applied to 2018. That is the point of making him a June 1st cut. The acceleration is applied to next season.

We wouldn't have freed up any money for this season.

If the idea was to sign Romo & use that $10M towards his 2017 cap hit, I get that. Basically it would be like trading a 2nd for Romo. Then the $10M would have value & I can say, "I like this trade." or "I don't like this trade."

As of right now, we have no idea what the Texans plan to do with that $10M so all I know is we gave up a 2nd round pick to dump Osweiler. Right now, in my mind I don't like the trade if that $10M will be used to sign one of the remaining FA OLmen..... I don't like the trade if that $10M is to lock up Hopkins on a long term deal... I like the trade if we trade for Matt Stafford & that $10M is used as part of his $16M salary (even if we have to give up this year's 2nd).


So right now, I'd rather we would have kept our 2nd round pick. But I can't say if this was a good deal or not until I find out what they're going to do with that $10M.
 
Trail.Blazr said:
General observation here, but I'm guessing a lot of the anger stems from the fact that Oz should have never been given the contract he signed last year to begin with. Was a huge leap of faith. But even if one didn't like that contract offering, its fair to still hope to be proven wrong. For all of those who questioned the signing to begin with, and after enduring the past season, it finally came full circle and they were all proven right yesterday.
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I'm not upset about signing Osweiler in the first place. I thought the Texans understood he may not look like a franchise QB in his first year in this system. Then to add to the fact that we added a new RB, started the season with 2 offensive linemen who weren't supposed to start. Plus a new RG, Rookie WRs at WR2 & WR3... & when the season started, we had two TEs who hadn't done a whole lot at that point. Then we fire the OC, pretty much saying he wasn't very good.

Everything looked like we were halfway through a two year plan. But now, now it looks like the wind blew & we changed our minds about what we're going to do again.

& that's my issue with the whole thing. It looks like we don't have anyone steering the ship. & that's probably the worst thing you could say about a franchise.
 
Lucky said:
It is accurate, dale. Here's a recent example.



Here's an explanation of the rule.
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ChampionTexan said:
This is simply incorrect. In order to qualify for the compensatory formula - on either side - you've got to be an unrestricted free agent (UFA). The definition of a UFA is one who's contract expired, and specifically excludes someone released by his previous team.

Here's an excerpt from Over The Cap's explanation. I defy you to find something (other than your own assertions) that suppports your position that the UFA thing only applies to the team losing the player.

http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/
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Thank you. I've been looking for this.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not upset about signing Osweiler in the first place. I thought the Texans understood he may not look like a franchise QB in his first year in this system. Then to add to the fact that we added a new RB, started the season with 2 offensive linemen who weren't supposed to start. Plus a new RG, Rookie WRs at WR2 & WR3... & when the season started, we had two TEs who hadn't done a whole lot at that point. Then we fire the OC, pretty much saying he wasn't very good.

Everything looked like we were halfway through a two year plan. But now, now it looks like the wind blew & we changed our minds about what we're going to do again.

& that's my issue with the whole thing. It looks like we don't have anyone steering the ship. & that's probably the worst thing you could say about a franchise.
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Yep.

Our "offensive" genius has me the most concerned also.
 
It's starting to look more like we needed Oz out of the locker room more than we need the money. We may be content with him no longer being here and seeing how the draft shapes up before having to make a move. Draft is late April, Cowboys don't need to do something with Romo until end May right? We very well could go into the draft with just Savage and Weeden and letting things play out. Dallas HAS to do something with Romo, doesn't seem like anyone is beating Cutler's door down either.
 
PapaL said:
Can you recap when you have time?
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Nothing of importance or new. They mentioned a flare-up between Oz and the coaching staff at the end of the season, but no one knows any details; and they mentioned the comment Oz made to a friend that it had been a mistake to sign with the Texans. That's it. I was hoping for more substance.
 
Following this, they had a segment with Andre Ware. He had an interesting comment that the first time he saw Oz in training camp, he made the comment that Oz was not the man, after seeing him sailing the ball and missing receivers.
 
PapaL said:
It's starting to look more like we needed Oz out of the locker room more than we need the money. We may be content with him no longer being here and seeing how the draft shapes up before having to make a move. Draft is late April, Cowboys don't need to do something with Romo until end May right? We very well could go into the draft with just Savage and Weeden and letting things play out. Dallas HAS to do something with Romo, doesn't seem like anyone is beating Cutler's door down either.
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Romo or no Romo we should draft a young arm to at bare minimum keep odds somewhat in our better favor.

And if this is simply what you were getting at, cool.
 
I was listening to 97.5 and they said the Texans odds of winning the Superbowl went from 40 to 1 to 20 to 1.

So there's that.
 
Number19 said:
Following this, they had a segment with Andre Ware. He had an interesting comment that the first time he saw Oz in training camp, he made the comment that Oz was not the man, after seeing him sailing the ball and missing receivers.
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I'm sorry but that smacks me of pure self-aggrandizement unless someone wants to come up with an undisclosed injury in the tail of the 2015 season or 2016 offseason. Elway & Kubiak watched him daily and wanted to throw $16+ mil at him. Kind of trust their judgment more.
 
From the interview this morning:

Mike Meltser

✔@MikeMeltser
Yes. Told us the Texans biggest miss on evaluating Brock was his personality. Didn't mesh with O'Brien https://twitter.com/GregRajan/status/840223448471355392 …

9:32 AM - 10 Mar 2017

Then there's this:

120 Sports

✔@120Sports
#Texans' Bill O'Brien reportedly was restrained in a physical confrontation with Brock Osweiler http://bit.ly/2m8i22T (via @BMac_120)

12:05 AM - 10 Mar 2017

Throughout the entire 2016 season, we saw a bit of - I wouldn't say lack of communication - but the chemistry was never there between Brock & entire offense.

Of course we know how this happened a year ago where they signed basically Osweiler without having had met the head coach, coaching staff & OC. Throughout the year, he was a bit inconsistent.

From what I've learned, the final road game, Houston traveled to Tennessee. That's the game Savage got knocked out with a concussion. Brock came in. I think he threw a couple of TDs. I don't recall if they won that game or not. That was his opportunity to regain the starting job. But before he entered the game, around halftime, it was a physical confrontation between Bill O'Brien & Brock. It got ugly. You see verbal arguments all the time. That's normal in the NFL. It was physical. Tempers were at an all-time high on both sides. Both had to be restrained. Seeing what happened today & giving away your "franchise player" with only a year of his services being used AND a second round pick - a valuable pick - they wanted to get rid of Brock at all costs. They didn't care about handing over a 2nd rounder as long as they got rid of the player & that contract, that was a top priority.
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I'm always very skeptical of these reports, but it would make a bit of sense given the trade. They were obviously either desperate to get rid of him, desperate to gain some additional cap space, or both. I don't really want to believe it was all about cap space, because if so it appears to be a poor move.
 
infantrycak said:
OB seems to have problems working well with QBs who aren't just grateful to have a jersey.
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Let's see - Hoyer, Fitzpatrick and ? Two QBs for sure at the end of their game and grateful to get a third or fourth chance. Savage - rookie happy to be in NFL after up and down college career. Weeden...man what a crazy list.
 
If I am reading these reports correctly, I am coming away with three ideas.

1) The biggest error the Texans pursuit and signing of Osweiler was the lack of a personal interview ( something people do with even most minimum wage jobs)

2) The Texans don't actually have a plan at QB currently (I know), except to rid themselves of a mistake.

3) Acting out desperation instead of confidence, cost the Texans dearly in money, time, draft position and reputation.
 
PapaL said:
It's starting to look more like we needed Oz out of the locker room more than we need the money. We may be content with him no longer being here and seeing how the draft shapes up before having to make a move. Draft is late April, Cowboys don't need to do something with Romo until end May right? We very well could go into the draft with just Savage and Weeden and letting things play out. Dallas HAS to do something with Romo, doesn't seem like anyone is beating Cutler's door down either.
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I don't think the Cowboys will wait that long. That puts Romo at risk of not being able to get a decent contract as the free agency money drys up. I think Dallas will release him outright if they can't get a deal done within a week. I would be very surprised if they would disrespect Romo by hanging on to him beyond that. If Houston is locked on to signing Romo, all they have to do is wait until he's released. After dumping Osweiler, they have plenty of money to outbid Denver.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
If I am reading these reports correctly, I am coming away with three ideas.

1) The biggest error the Texans pursuit and signing of Osweiler was the lack of a personal interview ( something people do with even most minimum wage jobs)

2) The Texans don't actually have a plan at QB currently (I know), except to rid themselves of a mistake.

3) Acting out desperation instead of confidence, cost the Texans dearly in money, time, draft position and reputation.
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1) They acted they only way they could. You make up your mind and just do it. Im not faulting them for making a decision, albeit an incorrect one, but they did it.

2) Wut? How do you know this?

3) Not of that truly matters TBH. They took a swing, they missed and rectified the situation
 
zshawn10 said:
From the interview this morning:

Mike Meltser

✔@MikeMeltser
Yes. Told us the Texans biggest miss on evaluating Brock was his personality. Didn't mesh with O'Brien https://twitter.com/GregRajan/status/840223448471355392 …

9:32 AM - 10 Mar 2017

Then there's this:

120 Sports

✔@120Sports
#Texans' Bill O'Brien reportedly was restrained in a physical confrontation with Brock Osweiler http://bit.ly/2m8i22T (via @BMac_120)

12:05 AM - 10 Mar 2017
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Something tells me that this is going to become a mantra around here as to why OS was cut. I'm calling bull - if Brock was converting 3rd downs, he's still here and this story fades away.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Atlanta trading up to 6 for a WR isn't the same as Houston trying to trade up to 2 for a QB.

They're different animals all together, but I think you actually know that.
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So you're saying there was absolutely NFW to get a deal done then?
paycheck71 said:
That's what I thought. You got nothing. Just like you didn't those 1000's and 1000s of words.
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That's what I thought, you didn't read one word.
 
Lucky said:
I think the point is not to celebrate the original incompetence. This is like drinking Milk of Magnesia. It tastes bad, but you have to do it. Now, on to the next bad decision!
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Yep and this time next year there will be a big spoon of Castor Oil to swallow.
 
Texian said:
That's what I thought, you didn't read one word.
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Whatever, man. Your whole Os "prediction" was built around the premise that instead of making a questionable signing, they should have traded up and gotten Goff/Wentz. There was 0 (ZERO) chance the Texans would have ended up with either one of those last year, no matter how much you want to push your "alternative" history.
 
dalemurphy said:
Not accurate. He counts as a Texan signing but not as a loss for the Cowboys.
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You should listen to Lucky on this one, any player who is CUT has no compensation value. Besides you got it bassackwards.

WolverineFan said:
This. If you're asking me if I'm glad that Osweiler is gone the answer is yes. If you're asking me if I'm going to give Rick Smith a high five for cleaning up his own mess the answer is no.
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Well Said.

TexansSeminole said:
I'm always very skeptical of these reports, but it would make a bit of sense given the trade. They were obviously either desperate to get rid of him, desperate to gain some additional cap space, or both. I don't really want to believe it was all about cap space, because if so it appears to be a poor move.
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Right or Wrong this one is on the Texans. No one wanted to take the time to sit down with man, eyeball to eyeball.
 
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paycheck71 said:
Whatever, man. Your whole Os "prediction" was built around the premise that instead of making a questionable signing, they should have traded up and gotten Goff/Wentz. There was 0 (ZERO) chance the Texans would have ended up with either one of those last year, no matter how much you want to push your "alternative" history.
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That's your assumption, the truth is I never wanted Osweiler regardless of Goff/Wentz. I thought Osweiler was an overpaid backup who had not proved his worth and the scouting reports said he was exactly who he turned out to be. You connected those dots and they don't connect.
 
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