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Texans random thought of the day

JB said:
Perhaps they are trying to work out offsets, could be a sticking point
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Wasn't it mentioned/explained previously that offsets had pretty much been shot down league wide. The owners just didn't go along with this double dipping.
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes the essence of time value economically speaking is about compounding over time, and not in terms of months or even years but rather decades !
A couple hundred K in this context is clearly immaterial, so there must be something else they are haggling over ?
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The Texans are getting what they asked for. It's gonna be worse after yr 3.
 
Number19 said:
Wasn't it mentioned/explained previously that offsets had pretty much been shot down league wide. The owners just didn't go along with this double dipping.
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Offsets are to prevent the double dipping. Jacksonville in not using offsets with their 1.1 picks are making it harder league wide to include them in contracts
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes the essence of time value economically speaking is about compounding over time, and not in terms of months or even years but rather decades !
A couple hundred K in this context is clearly immaterial, so there must be something else they are haggling over ?
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Your compounding interest example works for the layman saving over decades for retirement.

It’s a different game with the wealthy. I ain’t talking about those with a few million in a 401k and house. I am talking about real wealth. Even 30 million seems small when you think about it.

The sooner you get paid the sooner you can start buying cars, homes, franchises, and other investment ventures that include private equity.

A couple 100k is not immaterial to the wealthy. Even if they have millions they still care.

And even the poor don’t want no one holding their money making money for someone else instead of in their own hands making money for them. That principle ain’t lost on no one.

If I can leverage to get my money up front I would do it. Especially when others have in prior years.
 
TexansBull said:
Your compounding interest example works for the layman saving over decades for retirement.

It’s a different game with the wealthy. I ain’t talking about those with a few million in a 401k and house. I am talking about real wealth. Even 30 million seems small when you think about it.

The sooner you get paid the sooner you can start buying cars, homes, franchises, and other investment ventures that include private equity.

A couple 100k is not immaterial to the wealthy. Even if they have millions they still care.

And even the poor don’t want no one holding their money making money for someone else instead of in their own hands making money for them. That principle ain’t lost on no one.

If I can leverage to get my money up front I would do it. Especially when others have in prior years.
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In the economic & accounting vernacular last time I checked10% is the threshold for materiality so 150 K is below that threshold in this context I believe.
But anyway I think they must be squabbling over something else, don't you ?
 
JB said:
Offsets are to prevent the double dipping. Jacksonville in not using offsets with their 1.1 picks are making it harder league wide to include them in contracts
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The link I was referring to is in the "Welcome to Houston C.J. Stroud" thread, posted by Porky at #1340. I believe you "liked" it so you should be familiar with it.

You are correct. I had it backwards but had it right about the issue leaning in the owners favor.

"Agents have essentially lost the battle on offsets...Nearly every team besides the Jaguars and the Rams requires offsets...".
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This is a good read.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes there is, unless I had connections at a younger age or wanted to take a paycut now then you're correct. I actually think my philosophies of Quality over Quantity and taking talented but troubled guys and injured guys is a sound philosophy. I also think I would fit in well with the Chiefs org today or the Pats/Raiders orgs of the past.
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You advocate taking talented but troubled players, but vehemently oppose a talented, untroubled player because of his home situation growing up?

Please. Make it make sense
 
ArmyBengal said:
I like JJ McCarthy as well. Not sure I'm there with you, but that's cool.
I think Ewers is a head case, but he has talent for sure.
Like I said though, that's just what I have seen regarding the top 3 at this time.
I'm sure that will change. Injuries can play a huge part in that. Will just have to watch it play out.
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I'm curious what you've heard about Ewers being a head case. I've never heard about it. Any specifics?
 
michaelm said:
You advocate taking talented but troubled players, but vehemently oppose a talented, untroubled player because of his home situation growing up?

Please. Make it make sense
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With high picks.

3rd rd and below is when you start taking shots on talented but troubled players.
 
Lucky said:
The first domino has to fall before anything happens. That would be the Bryce Young contract.
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I can see the #1 pick waiting on the #2 pick. No 2 should not have better terms than #1.

#2s contract should be based on last year’s #2 & this year’s 3, which is already signed.
 
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Mollywhopper said:
Relatively easy, that's how easy.

No one is dictating anything, it's a completely reasonable market-driven negotiation.

And just for the record I'm not even advocating for Stroud to get a full lump sum bonus payout, just that neither side has to necessarily be an 'idiot' in a case like this when it's a normal back and forth negotiation. No one is being unreasonable, given precedent, and no one is holding anyone hostage or taking advantage of anyone else. It's just business, for both sides.
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One historically poorly run franchise making dumb financial decisions isn't precedent ..... Not when you have decades of precedent before that of those payments generally being spread over the guaranteed portion of the contract.

This is like the Browns paying Watson $360m fully guaranteed and calling it precedent.
No, it's just plain stupid.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Lol they’re not squabbling over anything. Man where do y’all come up with that crap from. He’ll get signed before TC.
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There's an article posted earlier that explains the issue. There is some speculation, but there is definitely an issue.

I think he'll be signed by TC. Only because Young will have signed by then & that's really what I'm pointing out. He's waiting to see how Young's deal shake out. Better terms for him, sure... rah, rah.

But #2 should be signed before #1.

As long as he’s signed by TC, cool. But there are shenanigans being played.
 
thunderkyss said:
There's an article posted earlier that explains the issue. There is some speculation, but there is definitely an issue.

I think he'll be signed by TC. Only because Young will have signed by then & that's really what I'm pointing out. He's waiting to see how Young's deal shake out. Better terms for him, sure... rah, rah.

But #2 should be signed before #1.

As long as he’s signed by TC, cool. But there are shenanigans being played.
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Out of curiousity. Why should #2 be signed before #1? Doesn't #1 set the market for all of the first round QB? If #1 gets the offset, the other QBs will bargain for the same or similar?
 
thunderkyss said:
There's an article posted earlier that explains the issue. There is some speculation, but there is definitely an issue.

I think he'll be signed by TC. Only because Young will have signed by then & that's really what I'm pointing out. He's waiting to see how Young's deal shake out. Better terms for him, sure... rah, rah.

But #2 should be signed before #1.

As long as he’s signed by TC, cool. But there are shenanigans being played.
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The article is pure speculation as well. They’re making it into an issue to drive up their ratings.

Why haven’t mainstream caught hold of this supposedly issue? They’re always looking for the juicy hot topic to beat down ever week. Especially when it’s the Texans.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The article is pure speculation as well. They’re making it into an issue to drive up their ratings.

Why haven’t mainstream caught hold of this supposedly issue? They’re always looking for the juicy hot topic to beat down ever week. Especially when it’s the Texans.
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I wouldn't say pure speculation.

There is an issue. It's July 15. If there were no issues they'd be signed.

He didn't say, "this is why they're not signed."

He ran down a couple of possible issues facing each one. There might be another issue he didn't mention.

But the fact is they are not signed. Why not?

He came across as very knowledgeable. I appreciated the article. Feels like I learned something about the business side of this.
 
Corrosion said:
One historically poorly run franchise making dumb financial decisions isn't precedent ..... Not when you have decades of precedent before that of those payments generally being spread over the guaranteed portion of the contract.

This is like the Browns paying Watson $360m fully guaranteed and calling it precedent.
No, it's just plain stupid.
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I still giggle hysterically when I hear Browns, Watson, $360 million.

Whoops , I am doing it now.
 
Corrosion said:
One historically poorly run franchise making dumb financial decisions isn't precedent ..... Not when you have decades of precedent before that of those payments generally being spread over the guaranteed portion of the contract.

This is like the Browns paying Watson $360m fully guaranteed and calling it precedent.
No, it's just plain stupid.
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Not just one team's done so, and historically poorly run or not there's one that's done so that's been to the SB in the last 2 years, which constitutes far more Conference championship games or SB's than our squad.

And like I said, I'm not advocating for Stroud to get his deal done any one way or the other. It ain't my money so I couldn't really care less. My point, as originally stated, was that it's a fair game negotiating aim given the recent run of the highest picks in the draft. I don't fault him/his agent for shooting for it any more than I would the Texans for wanting to negotiate away from it.
 
michaelm said:
I guess the Panther are getting what they asked for too, since Young is unsigned?

Damn the Texans dodged a bullet not having a chance to draft that malcontent.
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After yr 3 you will see what I'm talking about. Are you surprised that Stroud hasn't signed a contract? I'm not.
 
steelbtexan said:
Does it surprise you that Anderson has signed and Stroud hasn't?
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Does it surprise you that none of the other 4 have signed??

And to answer your question...no. signings almost always go in reverse order with the top picks signing last...so why this surprises you after it being done this way for decades beats the hell out of me. Just goes to show that you have a biased view and opinion and like every other thread try to inject it to try and convince everyone of your agenda and discontent.
 
The fact that #3 Anderson has signed doesn't give an insight on this young man's character and attitude toward football and what's important to his future in his chosen profession?

Having signed, does he have access to the training room, film room, coaches and other facilities? Do those not signed have the same access? In my estimation this is a strong indication Anderson was/is ready to get to work and apply himself...a strong football character.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The top 3 2023 Draft QBs are still not signed. With the Texans having so many new faces at all levels, everyone being there at day 1 of TC is that much more important. Twelve days and counting............

****************************************************************************************************

Top picks Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud still unsigned as camp approaches

Top NFL draft picks Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud could be on the sideline when training camps open due to ongoing contract negotiations.

Young, the No. 1 pick by the Carolina Panthers, and Stroud, selected second by the Houston Texans, are both in line to start as rookies after promising offseasons.

Stroud worked with receivers and tight ends away from the team facility and was also actively involved in the full team workouts. Whether he will sign while waiting to see the specifics of Young’s deal is unclear.

“It was good, definitely just building chemistry trying to get timing down and trying to be as best we can so we can get to training camp and dominate,” Stroud said. “That was the goal for that one to keep building and have a good offseason.”

Draft picks know the value and framework of their contracts when they are selected due to an NFL draft pool that assigns a value to each pick slot.

The granular clauses, such as offset language that dictates what a team owes if it moves on from a player, and the payment schedule of the initial signing bonus, can often become sticking points.

Most teams spread a signing bonus over three or four payments. The Panthers and Texans can thank the Jacksonville Jaguars for any demand of immediate bonus payments.

The Jaguars made No. 1 pick Trevor Lawrence’s $24.1 million bonus due in full 15 business days after signing in 2021 and paid the more than $24 million signing bonus to Travon Walker in the same timeframe.

No. 3 pick Will Anderson signed with the Texans on June 23. He signed a four-year, $35.2 million deal with a fifth-year team option.

NFL draft slot values peg the contract for the No. 1 pick at four years, $37.95 million, which includes a $24.6 million signing bonus. Stroud stands to sign a deal worth $36.3 million with $23.3 million due at signing.

Colts No. 4 overall pick Anthony Richardson also remains unsigned and has a max contract value of $33.994 million over four years.
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The top three QBs haven't signed? They must have that sorry ass Mulugheta as an agent. He is the only agent who would pull this! Right @steelbtexan ?
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm just wondering why they were able to sign Anderson, but not Stroud? Well, not really.
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A smart agent/player would wait and see what the 1st QB selected commands…..this way the market is established. Would you want to leave money on the table?

1. Young hasn’t signed yet.
2. Stroud hasn’t signed yet.
3. Anderson has signed.

It’s pretty simple….Stroud will fall somewhere between Young and Anderson.
 
Number19 said:
The fact that #3 Anderson has signed doesn't give an insight on this young man's character and attitude toward football and what's important to his future in his chosen profession?

Having signed, does he have access to the training room, film room, coaches and other facilities? Do those not signed have the same access? In my estimation this is a strong indication Anderson was/is ready to get to work and apply himself...a strong football character.
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Now that is a statement that holds true regarding WA JR. Not sure about training room and all the other things you listed...i dont think any of that becomes restricted until TC if you are not signed.
But as far as Anderson goes that was the MO and reports on him coming out of college...but I dont think you can say that b/c WA Jr. has signed that it makes CJ a bad person, or not committed or anything negative...they play two different positions (one being the most important on a FB team) and so obviously contracts and verbage will be different and negotiated differently.

Now if TC comes around and he hasnt signed for some reason...then I'll be po'ed and start questioning him or his agent or whatever is causing the hold up....franchise included.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
A smart agent/player would wait and see what the 1st QB selected commands…..this way the market is established. Would you want to leave money on the table?

1. Young hasn’t signed yet.
2. Stroud hasn’t signed yet.
3. Anderson has signed.

It’s pretty simple….Stroud will fall somewhere between Young and Anderson.
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There are salary slots, the only reason to not be signed is DM and the offset language in the contract. It shouldn't be a big deal, hopefully it's not, but you are dealing with inner city Dave so who knows.
 
I agree with everyone who says it's no big deal that Stroud is not signed.

It's not.

It will be an issue if he's not signed by training camp.

He has also not been named the starter yet. Not a big deal in & of itself. But it could be, I'm not saying it is, related to the issue around why he isn't signed.

He may be waiting for Anthony Richardson to sign... which makes sense.
 
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