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Well, if you throw enough panties against the wall one of 'em is bound to stick.
What does it mean when panties stick to the wall?
Asking for a friend.
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Well, if you throw enough panties against the wall one of 'em is bound to stick.
What does it mean when panties stick to the wall?
Asking for a friend.
Except then you look at LT and say they only brought in a guy coming off a serious knee injury, as opposed to a guy that has started there for 8 years and is coming off of a healthy season. This is all just arguing about the correct size and place of a band-aid for fairly non-significant one-year NFL money.They could have had Zeirler and Brown for the price of Robinson. If you are pinching Pennies, Robinson is a nonsensical signing.
How much did they offer Zeirler?They could have had Zeirler and Brown for the price of Robinson. If you are pinching Pennies, Robinson is a nonsensical signing.
How much did they offer Zeirler?
ExactlyI have no idea if the Texans reached out or made an offer,
Here is my issue, they said inside out, right? CJ is a qb who can navigate edge pressure. What he can't do is have pressure in his face off the snap. I would've preferred them spending 8m on James Daniels and 10m on Becton. Then you can play whomever at tackle. Paying Robinson 12m, Rankins 7m, that doesn't make sense when they said protect the qb inside out. Now with the restructure of Howard, that tells me he's going inside full time. They can get a good guard in the 2nd and 3rd rd with the UGA kid and Emory Jones. The Oregon kid will be there also. Still, I would have preferred them to answer the riddle like the Bears and Vikings did.They paid Robinson 14 mil, I wouldn't say that's nothing. What they're hoping is that between both Robinson/Brown they will get a full season of avg to above avg LT play. I wouldn't bet against this since Robinson made it through the entire yr last season. If Robinson stays healthy and Brown can return to his previous level of play (Doubtful) then they will be the starting OT's. If Robinson was to get hurt then Brown would take over at LT. If Brown cant make it back then they lost a 3 mil gamble. Not a big deal IMHO.
One things for sure, with all of these signings the OL will be more physical and smarter than they've been in yrs. These signings mean that they're probably looking at drafting Loveland or Golden/Egbuka at 1-25 or trading down like they did last yr. If Caserio was to trade down and they were able to get Taylor/Bech in rd 2 I would be very happy. All of this said if Banks happened to fall to 1-25 he would still be my pick.
12m is what I read , up to 14mThe real details of his contract have yet to be announced. I doubt that Robinson earns $14 million this year. From what I'm hearing, the Texans will go into 2025 having to start pinching pennies.
He's making the same as Cam Robinson & we said that was starting Tackle money?Now with the restructure of Howard, that tells me he's going inside full time.
I think they are going to wait until after the draft to decide where Howard will compete. Will he be competing for an OT position or will they draft an interior OL they feel good about competing? If they don’t get a starter quality interior OL (they are likely gone by end of day 2) then Howard goes inside.He's making the same as Cam Robinson & we said that was starting Tackle money?
I think they are going to wait until after the draft to decide where Howard will compete. Will he be competing for an OT position or will they draft an interior OL they feel good about competing? If they don’t get a starter quality interior OL (they are likely gone by end of day 2) then Howard goes inside.
If they do get a shiny new interior OL that can start then Howard is competing for a tackle position.
**speculation** Caserio has gone on record that he likes to operate in a two-year window. I think there's a chance that he looks at the 2026 draft class as a better round for the classic LT player. He does have an extra bullet (extra 2nd) in 2026 if he feels the need to jump up to get one. **/speculation**Regarding size/length profiles:
The only OTs with sub 34” arms on the roster are Zach Thomas (33 7/8”) and Jaylon Thomas (31 7/8”). Both thought of as camp bodies only.
They added Trent Brown and Cam Robinson who both have 35+” arms and Caserio has drafted Fisher and Deculus (34+” arms). Tytus Howard has 34” arms as well.
I suspect length is a thing in their evaluations. The top OTs in this year’s class have sub 34” arms. I think if Texans draft an OL day 1 or 2 they are looking at them as an interior OL prospect where their body types fit more in line with who they have on the roster.
Offensive Tackles drafted by New England from 2011-2020:
2011 1st Round Nate Solder Colorado 6'8" 319 lbs 4.96 (40), 21 BP, 7.44 3-cone
2011 5th Round Marcus Cannon TCU 6'5" 358 lbs 5.26 (40), 33 BP, 8.07 3-cone
2014 4th Round Cameron Fleming Stanford 6'5" 323 lbs 5.28 (40), 26 BP, 8.24 3-cone
2017 3rd Round Antonio Garcia Troy 6'6" 304 lbs 5.15 (40), 24 BP, 7.98 3-cone
2017 4th Round Conor McDermott UCLA 6'8" 307 lbs 5.18 (40), No BP, 7.52 3-cone
2018 1st Round Isaiah Wynn Georgia 6'2" 313 lbs (No combine or pro day numbers)
2019 3rd Round Pick Yodny Cajuste West Virginia 6'5" 312 lbs No (40), 32 BP, No 3-cone
Average Ht: 77"
Average Wt: 319 lbs
Average 40: 5.16
Average BP:
I suspect length is a thing in their evaluations. The top OTs in this year’s class have sub 34” arms. I think if Texans draft an OL day 1 or 2 they are looking at them as an interior OL prospect where their body types fit more in line with who they have on the roster.
Here's a list of the Patriots OT picks from 2011-2019 while Caserio was director of player personnel. Caley and Popovich were in Foxboro from 2015. I didn't include arm length, so here are those measurements.Offensive Tackles drafted by New England from 2011-2020:
2011 1st Round Nate Solder Colorado 6'8" 319 lbs 4.96 (40), 21 BP, 7.44 3-cone
2011 5th Round TCU 6'5" 358 lbs 5.26 (40), 33 BP, 8.07 3-cone
2014 4th Round Cameron Fleming Stanford 6'5" 323 lbs 5.28 (40), 26 BP, 8.24 3-cone
2017 3rd Round Antonio Garcia Troy 6'6" 304 lbs 5.15 (40), 24 BP, 7.98 3-cone
2017 4th Round Conor McDermott UCLA 6'8" 307 lbs 5.18 (40), No BP, 7.52 3-cone
2018 1st Round Isaiah Wynn Georgia 6'2" 313 lbs (No combine or pro day numbers)
2019 3rd Round Pick Yodny Cajuste West Virginia 6'5" 312 lbs No (40), 32 BP, No 3-cone
Average Ht: 77"
Average Wt: 319 lbs
Average 40: 5.16
Average BP: 27
Average 3-cone: 7.76
Have always drafted OTs with length. Except for using a 1st rounder on one of the shortest OTs in recent memory. Have not been afraid to pull the trigger on injured OTs.
But the Texans have maneuvered in FA to avoid having to play a rookie LT. If they don't go LT in this draft they would be extending the bridge LT situation to 2 years. Likely drafting in the bottom 10 of the 2026 draft, having to move way up would still be in play. And if the 2026 draft is considered a notch above 2025, moving up would be more expensive and more difficult.*speculation** Caserio has gone on record that he likes to operate in a two-year window. I think there's a chance that he looks at the 2026 draft class as a better round for the classic LT player.
Maybe. My point is Howard counts $24M this season & next, that's not IOL money if $14M is starting Tackle money for Cam Robinson.I think they are going to wait until after the draft to decide where Howard will compete.
I think total wingspan is also taken into consideration - some guys have broader shoulders than others.Here's a list of the Patriots OT picks from 2011-2019 while Caserio was director of player personnel. Caley and Popovich were in Foxboro from 2015. I didn't include arm length, so here are those measurements.
Solder - 35.5"
Cannon - 34"
Fleming - 34"
Garcia - 33.375"
McDermott- 34.75"
Wynn- 33.375"
Cajuste- 34"
The average arm length is 34.14" with the high at 35 -1/2" and the low 33-3/8" (twice). Simmons' arm length would be lower than any of those OTs drafted, but his size would be almost exactly the average, 6'5" 317 lbs. And the Patriots, and Caserio, have not been afraid of drafting injured players.
Banks also fits the size profile at 6'5" 315 lbs. His arms are 1/2" shorter than average, but slightly above the length of the low end. Banks has started all games at LT since entering college (42), and won both the Outland and Lombardi awards as the best collegiate lineman.
I can't see the less than 34" arm length being the mitigating factor in drafting Banks or Simmons. Now whether the Texans have an opportunity to draft either is another question. In fact, there might not be a player at 1.25 that carries a 1st round grade. Which could mean the Texans move down and accumulate picks, or move up for a LT.
There are some nice prospects in this draft even into the 3rd round.But the Texans have maneuvered in FA to avoid having to play a rookie LT. If they don't go LT in this draft they would be extending the bridge LT situation to 2 years. Likely drafting in the bottom 10 of the draft, having to move way up would still be in play. And if the 2016 draft is considered a notch above 2025, moving up would be more expensive and more difficult.
Looking at the time value of draft picks, 2025 makes the most sense for taking a LT.
Depends on if you think Robinson is the player he was with the Jags last yr or the player he was with the Vikes. Obviously Caserio/Ryans/Caley/Popovich think they're getting the Jags version of Robinson. Obviously you dont, when they traded Tunsil they created this situation. Robinson/Brown are their short term answers. But guess what, if they dont draft somebody to train up (Doesn't have to be in the 1st rd.) they will be back in the same situation next yr.They could have had Zeirler and Brown for the price of Robinson. If you are pinching Pennies, Robinson is a nonsensical signing.
Agreed, and this is why I hope that Banks falls to them at 1-25. Put him at LG which will solve one issue and they're banking on one of Tomlinson/Ingram/Scruggs solving the RG issue, then move Banks to LT in 2026. It's very risky playing a rookie at LT but if anybody could do it, it would be Banks. But that wouldn't be optimal IMHO.Here is my issue, they said inside out, right? CJ is a qb who can navigate edge pressure. What he can't do is have pressure in his face off the snap. I would've preferred them spending 8m on James Daniels and 10m on Becton. Then you can play whomever at tackle. Paying Robinson 12m, Rankins 7m, that doesn't make sense when they said protect the qb inside out. Now with the restructure of Howard, that tells me he's going inside full time. They can get a good guard in the 2nd and 3rd rd with the UGA kid and Emory Jones. The Oregon kid will be there also. Still, I would have preferred them to answer the riddle like the Bears and Vikings did.
With the hiring of Robinson and Brown, both of whom have injury histories, our line is starting to take on the look of a patchwork one.Look at his contract vs Robinson and you see the league is betting against Brown making a healthy return. He is the best OL on this roster if healthy. Lets hope we just signed a finalist for NFL Comeback Player of the Year!
Your first pick in the draft has to be a home run. Texans have to decide if they want to at least attempt to solidify the line this year with the first pick or possibly target someone next year but some of the guys on the line won't be here next year so it makes sense to find a plug for that hole this year.Ourlads Texans OL depth chart:
Regarding the top 4 OT candidates: Robinson, Howard, Fisher and Brown. All but Robinson have starting experience at both OT spots. Let the competition sort itself out and loser goes to swing OT.
Interior positions:
Tomlinson LG
Patterson C
Ingram RG
Scruggs has gained starting experience at all 3 interior OL positions first two seasons. Depending who they get in the draft, have Howard compete with Tomlinson at LG if you don’t get a prospect there… have Scruggs compete anywhere competition is lacking on the interior OL and see if he can win out.
I am not looking too hard at center-only prospects. I see Patterson as a center-only player and don’t think the team will carry two such players on the roster. Yes, Patterson has experience playing guard in a pinch, but I am only looking at him as a center this season.
I think with the vet additions it’s not a “have to pick OL at 25”. A day 2 guy to compete would fit in as well. This unit is filled with former 1st/2nd round picks. Someone thought they had talent at some point and in the case of Robinson, Ingram and Brown they have been solid starters elsewhere at different points in their careers. Get 5 solid players wherever you can and that will be a massive upgrade over what we saw last season.
Who did you want the starting LT to be next yr? Robinson (While avg) was the best LT left on the market. (Depending on what you think of Willis)They could have had Zeirler and Brown for the price of Robinson. If you are pinching Pennies, Robinson is a nonsensical signing.
So we're back to drafting a left tackle?Who did you want the starting LT to be next yr? Robinson (While avg) was the best LT left on the market. (Depending on what you think of Willis)
Do you really want to depend on Brown coming off a serious injury to be the starting LT? Forget about Howard as a starting LT.
Who did you want the starting LT to be next yr? Robinson (While avg) was the best LT left on the market. (Depending on what you think of Willis)
Do you really want to depend on Brown coming off a serious injury to be the starting LT? Forget about Howard as a starting LT.
Howard isn't a LT.Why forget about Howard? I’m not thrilled with Robinson. But one of those two would be my short term answer while a draft pick is brought up to speed…if they draft a tackle.
They should be and it doesn't have to be a 1st rd pick. But they need somebody to train up to be the LT of the future.So we're back to drafting a left tackle?
I agree and think that between Robinson and Brown we will get a full year for one to develop. Just depend on who is there at our pics.They should be and it doesn't have to be a 1st rd pick. But they need somebody to train up to be the LT of the future.
I think agility, ability to mirror the defender and kick slide as well as football intelligence is extremely significant. Take a guy like Charles Grant and he just seems to win every time.Here's a list of the Patriots OT picks from 2011-2019 while Caserio was director of player personnel. Caley and Popovich were in Foxboro from 2015. I didn't include arm length, so here are those measurements.
Solder - 35.5"
Cannon - 34"
Fleming - 34"
Garcia - 33.375"
McDermott- 34.75"
Wynn- 33.375"
Cajuste- 34"
The average arm length is 34.14" with the high at 35 -1/2" and the low 33-3/8" (twice). Simmons' arm length would be lower than any of those OTs drafted, but his size would be almost exactly the average, 6'5" 317 lbs. And the Patriots, and Caserio, have not been afraid of drafting injured players.
Banks also fits the size profile at 6'5" 315 lbs. His arms are 1/2" shorter than average, but slightly above the length of the low end. Banks has started all games at LT since entering college (42), and won both the Outland and Lombardi awards as the best collegiate lineman.
I can't see the less than 34" arm length being the mitigating factor in drafting Banks or Simmons. Now whether the Texans have an opportunity to draft either is another question. In fact, there might not be a player at 1.25 that carries a 1st round grade. Which could mean the Texans move down and accumulate picks, or move up for a LT.
I look at 2025 as Caserio trying to get out of a bind and into a better situation. Hopefully, Howard will look so good this year in one of the positions that he can be traded for a significant draft pick and move out millions of cap spaceMaybe. My point is Howard counts $24M this season & next, that's not IOL money if $14M is starting Tackle money for Cam Robinson.
Or... maybe the Texans have been working on the OL for a few years now & we just didn't have the coaches to develop the players. Like remember when "we'd" complain about all the 1st & 2nd round picks on our OL?I don't think there are too many pundits in here that would disagree with the notion that OL is the priority for us in this draft.
& he was playing on the Jaguars Franchise tag, they wanted to get something for him & not the nothing they'd have got if they couldn't extend him.Remember the Vikings only traded for Robinson because their starting left tackle, Christian Darrisaw, suffered a season ending knee injury and they needed a stopgap option.
We're probably only keeping 3 OTs on the roster. Robinson, Fisher, & BrownI agree and think that between Robinson and Brown we will get a full year for one to develop. Just depend on who is there at our pics.
Perhaps, but I will be surprised if they don't draft a developmental left tackle.We're probably only keeping 3 OTs on the roster. Robinson, Fisher, & Brown
Meaning the Texans see see Howard as the LG for 2025.
Ourlads Texans OL depth chart:
Regarding the top 4 OT candidates: Robinson, Howard, Fisher and Brown. All but Robinson have starting experience at both OT spots. Let the competition sort itself out and loser goes to swing OT.
Interior positions:
Tomlinson LG
Patterson C
Ingram RG
Scruggs has gained starting experience at all 3 interior OL positions first two seasons. Depending who they get in the draft, have Howard compete with Tomlinson at LG if you don’t get a prospect there… have Scruggs compete anywhere competition is lacking on the interior OL and see if he can win out.
I am not looking too hard at center-only prospects. I see Patterson as a center-only player and don’t think the team will carry two such players on the roster. Yes, Patterson has experience playing guard in a pinch, but I am only looking at him as a center this season.
I think with the vet additions it’s not a “have to pick OL at 25”. A day 2 guy to compete would fit in as well. This unit is filled with former 1st/2nd round picks. Someone thought they had talent at some point and in the case of Robinson, Ingram and Brown they have been solid starters elsewhere at different points in their careers. Get 5 solid players wherever you can and that will be a massive upgrade over what we saw last season.
That money is why Howard wasn't biotching about being moved to LG last season. He's getting his $$.Maybe. My point is Howard counts $24M this season & next, that's not IOL money if $14M is starting Tackle money for Cam Robinson.
Are they going to go back to the old RS days where players played based on what they get paid rather than performance?Maybe. My point is Howard counts $24M this season & next, that's not IOL money if $14M is starting Tackle money for Cam Robinson.
Brown has been signed, but he is no lock to make this roster. Certainly not a lock to be available opening day.We're probably only keeping 3 OTs on the roster. Robinson, Fisher, & Brown
That could make sense for the Texans as they have positioned themselves to give a guy like Grant a redshirt year to coach up, get stronger.I think agility, ability to mirror the defender and kick slide as well as football intelligence is extremely significant. Take a guy like Charles Grant and he just seems to win every time.
Plus if we could use a late round 3 to give us a future LT, man that opens up 25, 58 and 79! Depending who is there each pick, Nick could go crazy!That could make sense for the Texans as they have positioned themselves to give a guy like Grant a redshirt year to coach up, get stronger.
I consider the TE position to be part of the OL.I have to see where we are with the offensive line before trading away picks for TEs. I think the TEs dropping is real. It's just not a valued position in the league, for whatever reason.
That sounds great but Harbaugh’s spear got ripped in half and shoved up his QB’s rear in the playoffs. Only playoff caliber weapon they had was Mcconkey and Herbert was put in the pressure cooker.You guys crack me up. Everyone says "You win in the trenches!", "We need a dominate offensive line!", "Pass protection for the QB!", and "Running games win in the playoffs!". Then the first round comes around and everyone is immediately distracted by the bright, shiny, play-making, new toys and in this particular case the name fits, "Golden."
I'm sticking with Harbaugh's side, "You're gonna say 'what about a weapon?' Offensive linemen we look at as weapons." and "Offensive lineman are the tip of the spear!"
Heck, if last year taught us anything it's that no matter how much talent you have at WR/TE/RB it's all for naught if your offensive line is terrible. I (and I'm sure a few others) still remember buying into the hype last off-season that our offense was going to be unstoppable with CJ, Nico, Diggs, Dell, Schultz, and Mixon.
While I agree with you, the TE has a large part in the success/failure of the OL. I consider the TE position to be an extension of the OL. I would be very happy with rds 1-3.You guys crack me up. Everyone says "You win in the trenches!", "We need a dominate offensive line!", "Pass protection for the QB!", and "Running games win in the playoffs!". Then the first round comes around and everyone is immediately distracted by the bright, shiny, play-making, new toys and in this particular case the name fits, "Golden."
I'm sticking with Harbaugh's side, "You're gonna say 'what about a weapon?' Offensive linemen we look at as weapons." and "Offensive lineman are the tip of the spear!"
Heck, if last year taught us anything it's that no matter how much talent you have at WR/TE/RB it's all for naught if your offensive line is terrible. I (and I'm sure a few others) still remember buying into the hype last off-season that our offense was going to be unstoppable with CJ, Nico, Diggs, Dell, Schultz, and Mixon.
You seem to be saying that offensive lineman can only be found in round 1? Also, Matthew Golden is an extremely good wide receiver who could be a rookie pro bowler. I have not seen anyone give him even an average evaluation review. Having said that, I want the overall team to get better just not one or two positions. I think we can get wide receivers and an offensive lineman in round three to meet our future needs.You guys crack me up. Everyone says "You win in the trenches!", "We need a dominate offensive line!", "Pass protection for the QB!", and "Running games win in the playoffs!". Then the first round comes around and everyone is immediately distracted by the bright, shiny, play-making, new toys and in this particular case the name fits, "Golden."
I'm sticking with Harbaugh's side, "You're gonna say 'what about a weapon?' Offensive linemen we look at as weapons." and "Offensive lineman are the tip of the spear!"
Heck, if last year taught us anything it's that no matter how much talent you have at WR/TE/RB it's all for naught if your offensive line is terrible. I (and I'm sure a few others) still remember buying into the hype last off-season that our offense was going to be unstoppable with CJ, Nico, Diggs, Dell, Schultz, and Mixon.
I'm saying what the overall draft odds are saying (for the 100th time). %50 of 1st rounders ever become NFL starters, %33 of second rounders, and %16 of third rounders. If you dedicate every 2nd and 3rd rounder in the draft to the offensive line you'll net 1 starter every two years.You seem to be saying that offensive lineman can only be found in round 1? Also, Matthew Golden is an extremely good wide receiver who could be a rookie pro bowler. I have not seen anyone give him even an average evaluation review. Having said that, I want the overall team to get better just not one or two positions. I think we can get wide receivers and an offensive lineman and round three to meet our future needs.