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Takeaways from the Falcons game.

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I think it's too early on Tytus and Max otherwise I agree with you on the draft.

So we have mostly 4-7 coming up and as you said that's often just special teams depth and gone by year 3

Tytus and Max were first and second round picks. We only have one of those the next two years.

Which is a problem in terms of improving the team, but even more because we have a lot of impending free agents and extensions too

As far as ol I would have gotten Dillard and Nsekhe as I have said before. And by scrapping O'Briens EP system they would have protected Watson well enough I think. Nsekhe would be a big upgrade at rt though Dillard wouldn't be better than tunsil at this juncture
We can all argue in the offseason they should have done more then Henderson and Matt K for tackles. Maybe that is why Gaine was whacked, building the team slowly through the draft is all cool, but not when Cal wanted to win and protect DW4. Without being in the building, all we KNOW is that Gaine was in charge in the offseason and we screwed it, so had to make dramatic changes going into the season with a gun to our head and no reps for the newly acquired guys. How much of that is on BOB, Gaine, Cal I do not know, but since Gaine was the guy who got fired, I suspect more on him then the rest, but BOB does not get a pass. I actually think Gaine picked ok players, was just way too conservative for where we were at.
 

TejasTom

All Pro
There were less TO's today but also less penalties and no sacks.
I think we saw the value of getting your QB into rhythm early today.
Slow starts kill this team.

Reader got one last week also.
Does anyone know what Reader’s celebration is? It looks like he’s digging.
 

CPTTexan

Waterboy
Too early to pull this out. We were 2-3 this time last year & ended 11-5. We don't know who is good yet... Chargers will probably finish with 10 wins.
Is it?

Looking back at our record and opponents for 2018:
Teams We Beat Record: 71-88-1 (76-99-1 if I count Jax twice since we beat them both times)
Teams We Lost To Record: 44-36

4 out of 5 (80%) teams we lost to had a winning record.
3 out of 11 (27%) teams we beat had a winning record....and that was counting Jax twice.
 

frethack

Rookie
In the proper offense Watson isn't middling and he makes quicker decisions. Hardly stupid, BOB should only have him doing things he's good at and the EP system ain't 1 of those things
Can you define the "EP System" as you mean it?

Watson used the EP System in week 1 to pick apart a good New Orleans defense and last Sunday to demolish the Falcons. Hes used it in every good and bad game that he has had so far. By "EP System", I think you mean the "scheme". Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (and others...Chargers, Steelers, etc.) use(d) the EP System, but their schemes were not all that similar. Same with Andy Reid and Kubiak...both WCO, but the scheme is very different.

Watson operates the EP System just fine. Thats just the verbiage used to call plays. What I think you mean is that Watson has too many responsibilities at the line...which may be true...but thats because of OBriens scheme, not the EP System in general. Like ANY system, the EP can be as complex or simple as a coach wants to make it.

The scheme is/was overly complex for a young QB entering his 3rd year with only one non-rehabbing offseason under his belt.

 

dream_team

All Pro
Can you define the "EP System" as you mean it?

Watson used the EP System in week 1 to pick apart a good New Orleans defense and last Sunday to demolish the Falcons. Hes used it in every good and bad game that he has had so far. By "EP System", I think you mean the "scheme". Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (and others...Chargers, Steelers, etc.) use(d) the EP System, but their schemes were not all that similar. Same with Andy Reid and Kubiak...both WCO, but the scheme is very different.

Watson operates the EP System just fine. Thats just the verbiage used to call plays. What I think you mean is that Watson has too many responsibilities at the line...which may be true...but thats because of OBriens scheme, not the EP System in general. Like ANY system, the EP can be as complex or simple as a coach wants to make it.

The scheme is/was overly complex for a young QB entering his 3rd year with only one non-rehabbing offseason under his belt.

Great post. I was going to respond with something similar as in... "So we ran EP against Panthers, then BOB totally changed his offensive scheme in one week for the Falcons? Or the more reasonable explanation is that they played the same 'scheme', but the Falcons defense isn't that good, plus better performances by Watson & OL. "
 

Mangler

Veteran
My takeaway is that I’m glad whoever called the plays, put Watson in a position to succeed with the quick passes and run game that opened up the big shots. The “lowly” Falcons still hung 32 points on us, which should have been enough to take us out had our offense not exploded. I’m just glad the Texans offense of week 2 and 4 didn’t show up cause that would have been embarrassing.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Can you define the "EP System" as you mean it?

Watson used the EP System in week 1 to pick apart a good New Orleans defense and last Sunday to demolish the Falcons. Hes used it in every good and bad game that he has had so far. By "EP System", I think you mean the "scheme". Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (and others...Chargers, Steelers, etc.) use(d) the EP System, but their schemes were not all that similar. Same with Andy Reid and Kubiak...both WCO, but the scheme is very different.

Watson operates the EP System just fine. Thats just the verbiage used to call plays. What I think you mean is that Watson has too many responsibilities at the line...which may be true...but thats because of OBriens scheme, not the EP System in general. Like ANY system, the EP can be as complex or simple as a coach wants to make it.

The scheme is/was overly complex for a young QB entering his 3rd year with only one non-rehabbing offseason under his belt.

Go back and watch some old NYG film when Phil Simms was their QB if you want to know what the true EP system is.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Can you define the "EP System" as you mean it?

Watson used the EP System in week 1 to pick apart a good New Orleans defense and last Sunday to demolish the Falcons. Hes used it in every good and bad game that he has had so far. By "EP System", I think you mean the "scheme". Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (and others...Chargers, Steelers, etc.) use(d) the EP System, but their schemes were not all that similar. Same with Andy Reid and Kubiak...both WCO, but the scheme is very different.

Watson operates the EP System just fine. Thats just the verbiage used to call plays. What I think you mean is that Watson has too many responsibilities at the line...which may be true...but thats because of OBriens scheme, not the EP System in general. Like ANY system, the EP can be as complex or simple as a coach wants to make it.

The scheme is/was overly complex for a young QB entering his 3rd year with only one non-rehabbing offseason under his belt.

Yep, right now the EP system is too complex for Watson.
 
People keep talking about the EP system like its a set of hard and fast rules that must be followed. Its just a basic structure that is meant to be changed up to suit a team and even suit what team you are playing against. I don't think its "Watson can't handle an EP system" or "BoBs system is to complex" I think its more the system in place is meant more for a big arm pocket passer like Mallet or even Osweiler. Its not meant for a duel threat type QB that can gun sling if needed. Both can be the EP system and in fact that one of the strengths of the EP system. Its not that BoB needs to not run the EP system its that he needs to run it in a way that best suits the type QB he has instead of his preferred type of QB.

I've said it before BoB to me goes to war as though he has the army he wants and not the army he has. Hopefully the game against the Failcons means that he is finally going to war with the army he has but I'm not holding my breath.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I think it's too early on Tytus and Max otherwise I agree with you on the draft.

So we have mostly 4-7 coming up and as you said that's often just special teams depth and gone by year 3

Tytus and Max were first and second round picks. We only have one of those the next two years.

Which is a problem in terms of improving the team, but even more because we have a lot of impending free agents and extensions too

As far as ol I would have gotten Dillard and Nsekhe as I have said before. And by scrapping O'Briens EP system they would have protected Watson well enough I think. Nsekhe would be a big upgrade at rt though Dillard wouldn't be better than tunsil at this juncture
The OL is improved and seeing Tytus/Max are small school guys they should only get better with more NFL experience.

You can sin it anyway you like but the OL has been finally taken care of long term with young talented ascending players. BTW, I wanted Dillard too but since Gaine didn't the Tunsil trade was the next best thing. It's like you have an issue with Watson being well protected (Finally) and you've been shown many times that the future hasn't been given away.

Are you afraid BOB/Watson may have many more great games like Sunday and your fire BOB at any cost agenda may go awry?
 

frethack

Rookie
Go back and watch some old NYG film when Phil Simms was their QB if you want to know what the true EP system is.
Yep, right now the EP system is too complex for Watson.
You do understand that they were using the EP System on Sunday, correct? And week 1? And every game in Watsons rookie year? And every game that Watson has played as a Texan?

Even if the offense magically looks like Kubiaks simplified WCO version of the zone scheme from here until Obrien is fired, they will still be running it through the EP System.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
The OL is improved and seeing Tytus/Max are small school guys they should only get better with more NFL experience.

You can sin it anyway you like but the OL has been finally taken care of long term with young talented ascending players. BTW, I wanted Dillard too but since Gaine didn't the Tunsil trade was the next best thing. It's like you have an issue with Watson being well protected (Finally) and you've been shown many times that the future hasn't been given away.

Are you afraid BOB/Watson may have many more great games like Sunday and your fire BOB at any cost agenda may go awry?
No I'm afraid the team doesn't have the picks and capspace to get better and is actually going to get worse as free agents leave
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
No I'm afraid the team doesn't have the picks and capspace to get better and is actually going to get worse as free agents leave
You're going to be wrong as long as 1. Watson stays healthy 2. BOB continues to run the offense Watson's comfortable with.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Can you define the "EP System" as you mean it?

Watson used the EP System in week 1 to pick apart a good New Orleans defense and last Sunday to demolish the Falcons. Hes used it in every good and bad game that he has had so far. By "EP System", I think you mean the "scheme". Peyton Manning and Tom Brady (and others...Chargers, Steelers, etc.) use(d) the EP System, but their schemes were not all that similar. Same with Andy Reid and Kubiak...both WCO, but the scheme is very different.

Watson operates the EP System just fine. Thats just the verbiage used to call plays. What I think you mean is that Watson has too many responsibilities at the line...which may be true...but thats because of OBriens scheme, not the EP System in general. Like ANY system, the EP can be as complex or simple as a coach wants to make it.

The scheme is/was overly complex for a young QB entering his 3rd year with only one non-rehabbing offseason under his belt.

http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Would you rather have those draft picks, no Stills or Tunsil, Henderson at RT and Davenport at LT or this new look team, a third, fourth and sixth and still about top third NFL in cap space?
I would rather have Dillard, Nsekhe, all our draft picks and a lot more capspace
 

Dejaview

Rookie
You should know the answer to this already. KDog is very popular around these parts.
Lol, and I’d rather be a rockstar with all the “accoutrements”. Guy is a master at framing scenarios as if they have some connection to reality and repeating Them every three minutes 24-7. He’s wasting one of the best games ever played by a QB in NFL history.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Lol, and I’d rather be a rockstar with all the “accoutrements”. Guy is a master at framing scenarios as if they have some connection to reality and repeating Them every three minutes 24-7. He’s wasting one of the best games ever played by a QB in NFL history.
I was the one saying he's a top 5 QB last week before the game. I wasn't calling him middling and stupid.

It's the Texans who are gonna waste his career at this rate.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Joseph/Roby flipping sides (to follow their man) instead of maintaining their side. Johnson switching slot with Roby as situation best dictates.
Makes sense. I was confused by the last sentence "haven't seen that at all from RAC". I guess he meant last year
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
As long as Watson stays healthy the Texans won't need as much draft capital to remain contenders.
That’s all they will ever be, contenders, without hitting enough of the meat and potatoes. That’s how dynasties are formulated through years of building good football prospects and best way to that is maximizing draft slots, trading down for more picks, keeping cap space low in order to resign own free agents or those outside who fit your organization. No way to spin absence of future draft capital.
 

dream_team

All Pro
“You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.” This simplicity is one of the reasons coaches around the league have been gravitating to the Erhardt-Perkins approach.​

Wait, now I'm confused. I thought EP was supposed to be complex, too complex for Watson to run. But yet, the reason EP has gained popularity is because of its simplicity?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That’s all they will ever be, contenders, without hitting enough of the meat and potatoes. That’s how dynasties are formulated through years of building good football prospects and best way to that is maximizing draft slots, trading down for more picks, keeping cap space low in order to resign own free agents or those outside who fit your organization. No way to spin absence of future draft capital.
Tunsil is the meat and potatoes to keep Watson healthy. With the 4 picks in rds 2-4 they should be able to do what you want them to do.

They have cap room to re-sign the FA's they want to keep. I kind of hope they trade one of the 3rds for a 2021 2nd.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
“You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.” This simplicity is one of the reasons coaches around the league have been gravitating to the Erhardt-Perkins approach.​

Wait, now I'm confused. I thought EP was supposed to be complex, too complex for Watson to run. But yet, the reason EP has gained popularity is because of its simplicity?
O think you've answered your own question
 

dream_team

All Pro
O think you've answered your own question
Huh? I am so confused with where you actually stand? I guess I should come to expect this. This was your quote.

In the proper offense Watson isn't middling and he makes quicker decisions. Hardly stupid, BOB should only have him doing things he's good at and the EP system ain't 1 of those things
But yet, Charlie Weis said EP has gained popularity because of its simplicity, easier for the players & quarterback to learn. EP was designed to make things easier for the QB, but you say he shouldn't be running EP?
 
That’s all they will ever be, contenders, without hitting enough of the meat and potatoes. That’s how dynasties are formulated through years of building good football prospects and best way to that is maximizing draft slots, trading down for more picks, keeping cap space low in order to resign own free agents or those outside who fit your organization. No way to spin absence of future draft capital.
Who are these so called “dynasties” everyone keeps going on about? Hell for that matter what qualifies as a dynasty? Patriots ok yeah that one you can call a dynasty but any other? Not even talking about the Texans here but in the last 20 years what other team can you really say has created a dynasty?

It’s not GB they’ve won 1 with Rogers and can barely field a team around him, it’s not Steelers they’ve won 2 with Big Ben and are up and down every year, Denver had one good year same with Carolina. Eagles win the SB one year then barely beat us to even get in the playoffs the next. Dallas hasn’t done crap since the 90s. Chiefs were barely on anyone’s radar till Mahomes and Colts only looked like a serious team when Luck was standing.

So again who are these dynasty teams that are winners year in and year out and are always in the hunt for another trophy other than the Patriots? I think people are confusing history with dynasty.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
“You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.” This simplicity is one of the reasons coaches around the league have been gravitating to the Erhardt-Perkins approach.​

Wait, now I'm confused. I thought EP was supposed to be complex, too complex for Watson to run. But yet, the reason EP has gained popularity is because of its simplicity?
OBs version of EP is evidently too complicated.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
OBs version of EP is evidently too complicated.
I wonder if it's really complicated. The issue seems to be that he designs these slow developing iso routes that the OL can't block well enough for and that the WRs can't consistently win. And when there's a blitz, he just asks Watson to hang in there and take the hit. And he usually doesn't add hot reads, but when he finally does it's 2 receivers running into each other. Then he added Hyde running into the flat as an outlet which is useless since he's not a good receiving back.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Who are these so called “dynasties” everyone keeps going on about? Hell for that matter what qualifies as a dynasty? Patriots ok yeah that one you can call a dynasty but any other? Not even talking about the Texans here but in the last 20 years what other team can you really say has created a dynasty?

It’s not GB they’ve won 1 with Rogers and can barely field a team around him, it’s not Steelers they’ve won 2 with Big Ben and are up and down every year, Denver had one good year same with Carolina. Eagles win the SB one year then barely beat us to even get in the playoffs the next. Dallas hasn’t done crap since the 90s. Chiefs were barely on anyone’s radar till Mahomes and Colts only looked like a serious team when Luck was standing.

So again who are these dynasty teams that are winners year in and year out and are always in the hunt for another trophy other than the Patriots? I think people are confusing history with dynasty.
Go back and look at the Niner's in the 80s-90s. They were a dynasty. 70s Steelers. The Bills in the 90s were the unluckiest dynasty ever. All those teams drafted well and developed their own players.
 
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