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Takeaways from the Falcons game.

mws

Waterboy
Thanks for clarifying. Since all of this EP debate, I've been reading a lot of articles on EP. I didn't really know what it meant. From what I've read, you are correct.

So when someone says Watson can or can't run EP, they basically don't know what they're talking about. It would be more correct to say Watson can/can't run BOB's offense.
I have read several articles as well. It seems to me it is more about how the plays are called than what plays are actually called.

Here is an excerpt from an article written in 2014. All of the articles I have read said just about the same thing.

"Erhardt-Perkins Offense - The unique trait of this offense is the way plays are organized. Instead of long cryptic names or a numbering system, they are organized by "concepts" that are visualized often by a single word. The word might be "Choice" or "In." All receivers memorize all of the routes associated with this concept which allows a great deal of flexibility by allowing different receivers to line up in any of the alignment positions. And it is much easier to learn, and thus leads to less mistakes. And it also has a lot of different looks and is not simple to defend."
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
Another takeaway from the Falcons game, EP system talk be damned!!!

Is Julio Freakin Jones had 3 catches for 42 yards and a fumble. It wasn't a turnover but it was a fumble. Julio Freakin Jones. Top 3 WR in the league. On a day where Ryan threw for 350ish and 3 TD's, Julio only caught 3 balls. That's pretty good.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I have read several articles as well. It seems to me it is more about how the plays are called than what plays are actually called.

Here is an excerpt from an article written in 2014. All of the articles I have read said just about the same thing.

"Erhardt-Perkins Offense - The unique trait of this offense is the way plays are organized. Instead of long cryptic names or a numbering system, they are organized by "concepts" that are visualized often by a single word. The word might be "Choice" or "In." All receivers memorize all of the routes associated with this concept which allows a great deal of flexibility by allowing different receivers to line up in any of the alignment positions. And it is much easier to learn, and thus leads to less mistakes. And it also has a lot of different looks and is not simple to defend."
But it was said O'brien's offense was very complicated and took a few years to learn.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
I have read several articles as well. It seems to me it is more about how the plays are called than what plays are actually called.

Here is an excerpt from an article written in 2014. All of the articles I have read said just about the same thing.

"Erhardt-Perkins Offense - The unique trait of this offense is the way plays are organized. Instead of long cryptic names or a numbering system, they are organized by "concepts" that are visualized often by a single word. The word might be "Choice" or "In." All receivers memorize all of the routes associated with this concept which allows a great deal of flexibility by allowing different receivers to line up in any of the alignment positions. And it is much easier to learn, and thus leads to less mistakes. And it also has a lot of different looks and is not simple to defend."
It's damn difficult on receivers. I've never, EVER heard it described as "easy" on either the QB or WR.

https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2014/09/02/what_makes_the_patriots_offense_so_difficult
Adam Hunger-USA Today Sports

One thing we hear a lot at Gillette Stadium: “Do your job.”

How about we get more specific: “Do your job, which can change in an instant depending on a number of outside factors, and which may not become immediately clear until the job has begun.”

“First things first, you’ve got to learn formations,” said LaFell. “Man, we’ve got a million formations, and we’ve got a million personnel groups. I was just trying to get all that down pat, because at least if I know where I’m lined up, I can kind of figure out what everybody else is doing based on the concept of the play. And second, learning the terms of the plays that we use and different code words we use, because one play I can be the X receiver and if we go to a hurry-up offense, depending on where the ball is spotted, I can be the Z receiver the next play. I have to know the whole play, but first, learning the formations, personnel groups, second, learning the plays and the concepts and just go from there with it.”

“It was tough,” Dobson said of the learning curve in the Patriots offense. “Just coming in, it’s definitely a hard offense to learn. Very demanding. Tom Brady expects a lot from you, so just coming in, and not knowing anything, just trying to learn it all, and learn the different positions, it was tough.

Those tribulations have not been limited to rookies and young players. Talented veterans like Joey Galloway, Chad Johnson, and Brandon Lloyd have struggled, and ultimately crawled to their demise.

It’s a difficult offense to learn, but it’s not enough to simply study the offense. One of the defining characteristics of the Erhardt-Perkins offense — the system the Patriots run — is that receivers and quarterbacks must see the defense through the same set of eyes. The receivers run their routes using sight adjustments, in which they are responding to what the defense is doing.

“You have to be smart to play in this offense,” said wide receiver Brian Tyms. “You can’t be — I don’t want to say a dumb football player — but if you don’t know coverages, you might as well go somewhere else.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I want to clarify something. The coach's headset is 2-way.........the QB headset is 1-way (he can hear, but cannot respond except by hand signals). The QB's headset is turned on once a game official has signaled a down to be over.....................it is cut off when the ball is snapped or when the play clock runs down to 15 seconds. During QB communications, the QB's headset is set only to the QB's uniquely pre-designated channel with the coach (the coach can still hear communications from other coaches, but the QB can't hear these side communications). Interesting to note is that in the CFL, the QB's headset can be connected to communicate with a coach up in the booth instead of on the sideline if desired.
so O'brien can hear OC and suggest a different play.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I have read several articles as well. It seems to me it is more about how the plays are called than what plays are actually called.

Here is an excerpt from an article written in 2014. All of the articles I have read said just about the same thing.

"Erhardt-Perkins Offense - The unique trait of this offense is the way plays are organized. Instead of long cryptic names or a numbering system, they are organized by "concepts" that are visualized often by a single word. The word might be "Choice" or "In." All receivers memorize all of the routes associated with this concept which allows a great deal of flexibility by allowing different receivers to line up in any of the alignment positions. And it is much easier to learn, and thus leads to less mistakes. And it also has a lot of different looks and is not simple to defend."
Interesting that E/P system has been used in NFL since 1990s but I can't recall so much talk as this thread. I read article recently from 2018 saying only 6 teams use it and none were Texans. Don't recall who wrote it.
 
It's damn difficult on receivers. I've never, EVER heard it described as "easy" on either the QB or WR.

https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2014/09/02/what_makes_the_patriots_offense_so_difficult
A part of it that wasn’t bolded is “Tom Brady expects a lot from you....” not the coaches or BB but Brady. That’s tells me the current system is so tough not because it’s the EP system but because it’s the EP system Brady likes and uses. I’m sure BB has plenty of say to but BB has always more a defense guy so he’s let Brady have more offense freedom since he became the Tom Brady we know (and hate).
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
A part of it that wasn’t bolded is “Tom Brady expects a lot from you....” not the coaches or BB but Brady. That’s tells me the current system is so tough not because it’s the EP system but because it’s the EP system Brady likes and uses. I’m sure BB has plenty of say to but BB has always more a defense guy so he’s let Brady have more offense freedom since he became the Tom Brady we know (and hate).
Meh. It tells me that the O'Brien version is an offshoot of the Belichick implementation...that you need a Brady-type to run effectively. Very few NFL teams run either a "pure" or "simplified" E-P.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
they traded away 2nd & 3rd already. I have no interest anymore in what they do or don’t do draft wise, because they don’t even have a draft left to develop.
In 2020 they will have a 2nd/ Two 3rds (Seattle's and a Comp pick) 4-1/ The rest of their draft picks. I kinda hope they trade a 2020 3rd for a 2021 2nd.

So yes they dont have a 1st rd pick, but they have enough high 2nd/3rd's to move into the 20-32 1st rd range if there's a guy they really like. (Say a CB like Amik Robertson/C.J. Henderson/Levonta Taylor.)

I would like to know the CB's you like that might be there in the 2nd/3rd rd. You're much better at CB evals than I am.

Edges are 2nd/3rd rd guys for sure. No trading up for those guys. If you would give your thoughts in the draft thread I would love to see them.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Agreed, This is one of the reasons BOB needed to change the offense to make things easier on Watson. BOB is asking Watson to do more than he's currently capable of doing. This doesn't mean he cant learn all of the things BOB asks him to do. However I think after 3 yrs of learning the system it's fair to ask if he will ever truly get it. This makes some uncomfortable.

Brady doesn't have an overly strong arm and had a record breaking season with BOB as OC.
Well there's a big difference between 37 months & 25.

He just started year three & year 1 was cut short. & the 7 games of year one was nothing like BO'bs ideal offense.

Don't get me wrong. I think he's a little behind as well. He should have the line calls down pat.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Another takeaway from the Falcons game, EP system talk be damned!!!

Is Julio Freakin Jones had 3 catches for 42 yards and a fumble. It wasn't a turnover but it was a fumble. Julio Freakin Jones. Top 3 WR in the league. On a day where Ryan threw for 350ish and 3 TD's, Julio only caught 3 balls. That's pretty good.
As I posted in the game thread the day before the game:

I think they'll limit Julio Jones, but one or more of Ridley, Sanu, or Hooper will go off.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Cynthia Frelund from NFLNetwork said Watson could be the highest scoring QB for week 5 because we were playing the Falcons at home. To be clear, she said this before the game.
Not to try to take away anything from Sunday's victory, but the Falcons hardly blitzed (I can't remember if they did at all). I'd like to see our "new scheme" now against a heavy blitz team to see if the combination of Watson reading, O'Brien calling, and the O blocking and route running can come together under those circumstances to result in a Falcon outcome.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Agreed. But I'll take an injury riddled KC defense this week & I hope there's something to slow down the Colts defense next week.

Watson's been playing top defense after top defense for a while now. He could use a break. Play some "regular" defenses for a change.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Tunsil is the meat and potatoes to keep Watson healthy. With the 4 picks in rds 2-4 they should be able to do what you want them to do.

They have cap room to re-sign the FA's they want to keep. I kind of hope they trade one of the 3rds for a 2021 2nd.
they traded away 2nd & 3rd already. I have on interest anymore in what they do or don’t do draft wise, because they don’t even have a draft left to develop.
In 2020 they will have a 2nd/ Two 3rds (Seattle's and a Comp pick) 4-1/ The rest of their draft picks. I kinda hope they trade a 2020 3rd for a 2021 2nd.

So yes they dont have a 1st rd pick, but they have enough high 2nd/3rd's to move into the 20-32 1st rd range if there's a guy they really like. (Say a CB like Amik Robertson/C.J. Henderson/Levonta Taylor.)

I would like to know the CB's you like that might be there in the 2nd/3rd rd. You're much better at CB evals than I am.

Edges are 2nd/3rd rd guys for sure. No trading up for those guys. If you would give your thoughts in the draft thread I would love to see them.
Not going to invest much time into draft anymore but have seen Utah corner Jaylon Johnson, 6-0 190 and he looks very solid in all facets with upside to become a starter someday in the NFL. Currently he's projected 3-4th rd. but its waayy to early for that.

Was good to see the OL play much better, not sure what was up with false start Scharping but hopefully that gets resolved. Even Martin looked better. Of course its all about match-ups and health going forward too.

No pics are safe either with O'Brian going all in to save his job. They do have 2020 2nd just not 2021 and of course 1st's for two years. Thanks for compliment!
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Should the Texans try more 2 TE sets?


OCTOBER 8, 2019 BY RIVERSMCCOWN_1RDKF6
How the Texans got their groove back in 12-personnel


Last season, the Texans ran the ball a ton out of 12 personnel (one back, two wideouts, two tight ends) — they ran from that set almost as often as they did from their more common 11 personnel (one back, three wideouts, one tight end) sets despite passing from 11 personnel about twice as often.

 

Earl34

Rookie
Should the Texans try more 2 TE sets?

Last season, the Texans ran the ball a ton out of 12 personnel (one back, two wideouts, two tight ends) — they ran from that set almost as often as they did from their more common 11 personnel (one back, three wideouts, one tight end) sets despite passing from 11 personnel about twice as often.

Those are some interesting stats and they should try more 2 TE sets. I like the flexibility of the 2 TE sets. Shoot, if I want to watch a team spend the majority of their time in the shotgun formation running dive plays, I can go watch any local high school team that's running the spread offense.

Any good analytics or QA person on staff should be able to identify these tendencies. They have a higher passing success rate out of 12 personnel, but they choose to pass almost twice as frequently out of 11 personnel. Go figure.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Should the Texans try more 2 TE sets?


OCTOBER 8, 2019 BY RIVERSMCCOWN_1RDKF6
How the Texans got their groove back in 12-personnel


Last season, the Texans ran the ball a ton out of 12 personnel (one back, two wideouts, two tight ends) — they ran from that set almost as often as they did from their more common 11 personnel (one back, three wideouts, one tight end) sets despite passing from 11 personnel about twice as often.

Probably ran more out of 12 last year because they simply had to have those TEs on the field because of how bad the OL was. Then there's the fact that there's only 2 TEs currently seeing snaps so far this year.
 


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