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Takeaways from the Browns game.

badboy

Hall of Fame
Im not sure I follow… the Browns cut BO in 17, and we traded for LT in 19. I think had we just cut BO instead of trading him we’d have had to pay his salary for 17. I don’t see how that would have impacted the TunsI’ll trade
What’s worse to me is that Chubb was drafted with the pick we gave them to take on BO’s contract. I’d love to see Chubb in a Texans uniform
Your post implied that if we had not traded the 2.3 to Miami we could have drafted Chubb. I prefer having Tunsil rather than using that pick for Chubb.
 
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Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Your post implied that if we had not traded the 1.3 to Miami we could have drafted Chubb. I prefer having Tunsil rather than using that pick for Chubb.
As far as drafting a RB that high, and the short shelf life RBs typically have, you're right. I don't think I'd ever be happy drafting a RB in the 1st round, unless we had a team that needed very little elsewhere. That said, it sure would be nice to have someone on the team who could pick up more than 2.9 yards per carry right now. I mean, unless you're all about process and not results.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'm encouraged by what has been on the field so far.

We probably won't get pick 1.1, but ill take competent position coaching over the first pick any day.

Hopefully Culley learned something this past game and doesn't make bonehead calls with regularity. I genuinely like the guy, but he needs to separate his emotions from the moment. How is he doing compared to other new head coach hires not named Urban Meyer?

There are already a few decent vets that I hope stick around...Pharoah, Kirksey, Cannon, Britt, etc. I'm also impressed with Cooks leadership this season. He's spent a lot of time as a hired gun...I'd like to see him settle in here if that cap hit wasn't so high. Am I seeing correctly that 2023 and 2024 are only 5 mil?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
The restructure causes 2023 and 24 to be voided with a dead cap $ hit of $5 m in 2023; perhaps that is what you saw? If we cut him after season and before June 1 2022 we save 13 million but take dead hit of 7 1/2 m spread over two seasons at 2.5 and 5.

Edit to correct: that would be a post June 1 cut.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
As far as drafting a RB that high, and the short shelf life RBs typically have, you're right. I don't think I'd ever be happy drafting a RB in the 1st round, unless we had a team that needed very little elsewhere. That said, it sure would be nice to have someone on the team who could pick up more than 2.9 yards per carry right now. I mean, unless you're all about process and not results.
I'm not averse to drafting a RB in round one but depends on some things as you indicate. My POV when he was drafted at 2.35 we needed a pro bowler LT more than a 1000 yard back.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I'm not averse to drafting a RB in round one but depends on some things as you indicate. My POV when he was drafted at 2.35 we needed a pro bowler LT more than a 1000 yard back.
We did, but unfortunately it wasn't addressed when it should have been, and they end up making a desperation move for one.

That said, you still could have had Chubb if you don't throw away your 2nd getting rid of Brock, and you still could have made the deal for Tunsil. That would have been pretty sweet, until Watson pulled his shit, that is.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
We did, but unfortunately it wasn't addressed when it should have been, and they end up making a desperation move for one.

That said, you still could have had Chubb if you don't throw away your 2nd getting rid of Brock, and you still could have made the deal for Tunsil. That would have been pretty sweet, until Watson pulled his shit, that is.
I'm just not sure that trading a round 1 in 2020 & round one and two in 2021 for an ongoing pro-bowler was unfortunate. IIRC we've seen safeties and corners traded for two round ones and a LT is much higher priority. Stills and a round four was worth the 2021 round two IMO. 4 TDs 561 yards @ 14 with 73 % catch ratio. I am out on this as I complain when folks go on and on about trades of the past.
 

frethack

Rookie
The restructure causes 2023 and 24 to be voided with a dead cap $ hit of $5 m in 2023; perhaps that is what you saw? If we cut him after season and before June 1 2022 we save 13 million but take dead hit of 7 1/2 m spread over two seasons at 2.5 and 5.

Edit to correct: that would be a post June 1 cut.
Thank you...was hoping we may keep him, but unless he is extended he's just too expensive.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
That's the whole thing. A lot of us are confused with the Texans taking a QB with that pick.

Unless you think you've found the next Russell Wilson, Texans shouldn't have been even thinking QB with that pick.

No they shouldn’t have been in that type of position in the first place. Unfortunately Watson and his shenanigans forced their hands. They had so many holes to fill and the quarterback position shouldn’t have been one of them. Remember they apologized to him as well as kept Kelly for him and they hired a African American head coach for him. They also kept telling the fans and media that he was still their quarterback. So here we are today.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No they shouldn’t have been in that type of position in the first place. Unfortunately Watson and his shenanigans forced they’re hands. They had so many holes to fill and the quarterback position shouldn’t have been one of them. Remember they apologized to him as well as kept Kelly for him and they hired a African American head coach for him. They also kept telling the fans and media that he was still their quarterback. So here we are today.
Then they don’t belong in their jobs anymore than O’Brien did.

You don’t let bs “force” you into bad decisions. You don’t take Davis Mills there unless you believe you have to have him & he won’t be there later.

& right now, I’m not seeing anything that would lead them to think either.

Sign Tyrod, trade for Finley, bring in Driskel. Worry about your “franchise QB” next year, or the year after.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Then they don’t belong in their jobs anymore than O’Brien did.

You don’t let bs “force” you into bad decisions. You don’t take Davis Mills there unless you believe you have to have him & he won’t be there later.

& right now, I’m not seeing anything that would lead them to think either.

Sign Tyrod, trade for Finley, bring in Driskel. Worry about your “franchise QB” next year, or the year after.
Pep said the kid has potential, that’s why they drafted him. It’s going to take some games played before seeing exactly what he has Thunder.

Ummmm remember they had just made dude the face of the organization months before he came with this nonsense. They were blindsided so what exactly did you expect. Taking a quarterback in the third round might pay off if they’re able to coach him up.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Pep said the kid has potential, that’s why they drafted him. It’s going to take some games played before seeing exactly what he has Thunder.
Then take him in the 5th.


They were blindsided so what exactly did you expect. Taking a quarterback in the third round might pay off if they’re able to coach him up.
All I’m saying is right now, I’m not seeing it.
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
No they shouldn’t have been in that type of position in the first place. Unfortunately Watson and his shenanigans forced they’re hands. They had so many holes to fill and the quarterback position shouldn’t have been one of them. Remember they apologized to him as well as kept Kelly for him and they hired a African American head coach for him. They also kept telling the fans and media that he was still their quarterback. So here we are today.

Yep, here we are. On the bright side, we won't be rebuilding and drafting with O'Brien at the helm. Casserio actually has the where with all to evaluate and acquire the talent to build a winner .... a perennial winner .... a Da Da Dynasty !
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Then take him in the 5th.

Why? They were already leapfrog by the team that took Mond. So they got the 2nd player who they had on their board for that


All I’m saying is right now, I’m not seeing it.
I hear ya on that. My thing is most of the time you won’t see it right now. Especially when you were opposed to the pick in the first place.
 
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justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Then take him in the 5th.




All I’m saying is right now, I’m not seeing it.
I think you are .... we just ran into some bumps - a little early. We put Tyrod on IR. Suit up Finley and Driskel and let them vie for starter. Give the Wiz Kid a clipboard, or stash him on the IR. He only started his final season .... he needs some seasoning !
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Then take him in the 5th.




All I’m saying is right now, I’m not seeing it.
Sounds easy to say take him in the fifth now. your Theory can’t be tested or proven. Would be like trying to prove now your hypothetical third round defensive pick would be a game changer at this point. But I don’t think many GM’s would let that guy go that long. In fact I’m guessing he really starts drawing attention from the third on, especially with teams that could afford to sit him. there is still a lot of football to see from this guy and the potential upside is worth it.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
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Sounds easy to say take him in the fifth now. your Theory can’t be tested or proven. Would be like trying to prove now your hypothetical third round defensive pick would be a game changer at this point. But I don’t think many GM’s would let that guy go that long. In fact I’m guessing he really starts drawing attention from the third on, especially with teams that could afford to sit him. there is still a lot of football to see from this guy and the potential upside is worth it.
Why?

Have you seen anything special about him? Arm talent? Football IQ, athleticism?

It’s been a little while, I get that, but have you seen a hint of anything special?

I watched Lawrence one game (I don’t watch college) & I know that kid is special. I remember the first time I saw Andrew Luck... a highlight reel, I knew he was special.

I’m not seeing a difference between Davis Mills & Kevin Hogan (who is available btw).
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Im not sure I follow… the Browns cut BO in 17, and we traded for LT in 19. I think had we just cut BO instead of trading him we’d have had to pay his salary for 17. I don’t see how that would have impacted the TunsI’ll trade
Just another case of RS cheap azz screwing the pooch.

He finally paid for decisions like this one with his job.

And like magic he was never heard from again in the NFL.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Then take him in the 5th.




All I’m saying is right now, I’m not seeing it.
Of course you're not seeing it, probably wont see anything for awhile due to his lack of experience in college and the fact that he's only played 1/2 of an NFL game.

What are your expectations for Mills? That he look like Brady? He's gonna struggle like most rookie QB's especially with as little game experience as he has gotten.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think you are .... we just ran into some bumps - a little early. We put Tyrod on IR. Suit up Finley and Driskel and let them vie for starter. Give the Wiz Kid a clipboard, or stash him on the IR. He only started his final season .... he needs some seasoning !
He's going to get some seasonig, the same as all of the other rookie QB's in that draft. Do guys like TK think he's not as talented as any other QB in this draft? He's going to have to take his lumps like every other young QB as he learns the speed of the NFL. I think he's going to be alright eventually, but I'm really not looking forward to the Pats game and BB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Why?

Have you seen anything special about him? Arm talent? Football IQ, athleticism?

It’s been a little while, I get that, but have you seen a hint of anything special?

I watched Lawrence one game (I don’t watch college) & I know that kid is special. I remember the first time I saw Andrew Luck... a highlight reel, I knew he was special.

I’m not seeing a difference between Davis Mills & Kevin Hogan (who is available btw).
If you cant see the arm talent difference between Mills/Hogan then I question what QB judgements you make. Mills arm is plenty good enough, in fact I would put it up there with Lawrence/Fields/Mac Jones. No rookie has Wilson's arm talent. But Mills arm is plenty strong enough.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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What are your expectations for Mills? That he look like Brady?
Brady looked like crap his first year as a starter. He’d earned a rep for being clutch & the Pats won some big games because of it.

if someone were to ask, “What’s special about him?” Back then they’d have said he’s clutch.

What do you think is special about Mills?
 

thunderkyss

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But Mills arm is plenty strong enough.
That’s fine. But it’s not a plus arm. It’s just your average nfl arm. & that’s the point. I don’t see anything special about Mills that warrants using our third round pick on him.

Pep Hamilton had inside info... great. Meaning no one else knows what Pep knew... you take him in the 5th.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
If you cant see the arm talent difference between Mills/Hogan then I question what QB judgements you make. Mills arm is plenty good enough, in fact I would put it up there with Lawrence/Fields/Mac Jones. No rookie has Wilson's arm talent. But Mills arm is plenty strong enough.
That LB still intercepted his pass though.
And the CB would have intercepted the pass on the sideline, too, had Cooks not able to contest it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s fine. But it’s not a plus arm. It’s just your average nfl arm. & that’s the point. I don’t see anything special about Mills that warrants using our third round pick on him.

Pep Hamilton had inside info... great. Meaning no one else knows what Pep knew... you take him in the 5th.
I think he's got an arm as good as any rookie QB not named Wilson. So do all of the other QB's in the draft have avg arm strength? Does Mills have the arm strength to make all of the throws? Yes IMHO
 

steelbtexan

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Brady looked like crap his first year as a starter. He’d earned a rep for being clutch & the Pats won some big games because of it.

if someone were to ask, “What’s special about him?” Back then they’d have said he’s clutch.

What do you think is special about Mills?
I dont know if there's anything special about Mills, he's only played 1/2 of NFL football.

In fact I dont know who will be special in this QB draft class and probably wont know until the end of this season or the 2022 season, because these guys gotta take their lumps and learn just like all rookie/young QB's.
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
I think Mills' biggest hurdle/problem is that he only played one year of college ball .... and everytime he gets under center with live fire flying around, he is again, keenly aware of his situation. I think we may do irreparable damage to his confidence/ego/future. I believe Finley and/or Driskel would have a better chance of success.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I think Mills' biggest hurdle/problem is that he only played one year of college ball .... and everytime he gets under center with live fire flying around, he is again, keenly aware of his situation. I think we may do irreparable damage to his confidence/ego/future. I believe Finley and/or Driskel would have a better chance of success.
If he didn't play at all this yr then he would have to go through what you're describing. Do you think the Texans would beat the Bills/Pats with Taylor? Because if you do then you're thinking the Texans are a playoff team and while I really like this team, I dont see that happening with TT.
 

steelbtexan

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That LB still intercepted his pass though.
And the CB would have intercepted the pass on the sideline, too, had Cooks not able to contest it.
You're point is what? A rookie threw an int in his 1st action after being thrown in the middle of a game? A WR broke up a possible INt? What WR hasn't done that 1,000 times? What were/are your expectations?
 

thunderkyss

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I think he's got an arm as good as any rookie QB not named Wilson. So do all of the other QB's in the draft have avg arm strength? Does Mills have the arm strength to make all of the throws? Yes IMHO
Wilson’s arm is special. That’s what makes him special. The other guys, Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Jones have other traits or combination of traits they’ve demonstrated over their college careers that makes them special.

Mills... really, there’s no defending the pick. I wish we’d have seen one amazing play in the last 4 that gave a glimmer of special. But all I saw was Bambi.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
If you cant see the arm talent difference between Mills/Hogan then I question what QB judgements you make. Mills arm is plenty good enough, in fact I would put it up there with Lawrence/Fields/Mac Jones. No rookie has Wilson's arm talent. But Mills arm is plenty strong enough.
I guess you missed the part where he climbed the pocket and underthrew the wr?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
The Texans are rebuilding. They needed those picks for players on 5 and 4 year rookie deals. Not a franchise LT with an APY of $22 million. That trade by O'Brien ended up setting back this franchise a year.
If they're rebuilding, why are they the 2nd oldest team in the league?
 

CWTexansFan

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor's Club
Wilson’s arm is special. That’s what makes him special. The other guys, Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Jones have other traits or combination of traits they’ve demonstrated over their college careers that makes them special.

Mills... really, there’s no defending the pick. I wish we’d have seen one amazing play in the last 4 that gave a glimmer of special. But all I saw was Bambi.
Wasn't it Bambi's mom that burned up like a piggy on a barbecue?
That's some twisted **** sir.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
Yep but if injuries had not happened to Browns their healthy team could have stomped our healthy team. As is they did beat us by more than the fumbled induced 7 points.
Yeah well they had their injuries going into the game and ours happened during the game changing the trajectory of a game that was absolutely competitive and winnable. And that fumble set things off poorly. Just like it did in the Ravens playoff game. Coupled with the injuries to come and yeah impossible to overcome.

Eh. What are you gonna do.
 
If they're rebuilding, why are they the 2nd oldest team in the league?
It's their choice of strategy. I think the first step in their rebuilding process was cleaning up the previous mess (contracts, players, culture). That's why they have older players on those short contracts, 95% of them will not get another contract. You will see them introduce a larger amount of younger players once they start having their full compliment of assets (better cap space and draft picks). Not saying I agree, but my opinion of what we're seeing.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
If they're rebuilding, why are they the 2nd oldest team in the league?
besides The few draft picks what were they going to rebuild the team with…UDFA’s? You don’t rebuild with them. You cut them at the end of TC. The older 1-2 year contracts naturally involve players with experience. The competitive environment they produced is helping the coaching staff evaluate their systems and give valuable help with coaching up the younger players. They will also re-sign some of these better players. That’s rebuilding, not gutting and destruction. Going into next years draft they will be miles ahead in their program by taking this approach which is somewhat innovative and is already showing results.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
besides The few draft picks what were they going to rebuild the team with…UDFA’s? You don’t rebuild with them. You cut them at the end of TC. The older 1-2 year contracts naturally involve players with experience. The competitive environment they produced is helping the coaching staff evaluate their systems and give valuable help with coaching up the younger players. They will also re-sign some of these better players. That’s rebuilding, not gutting and destruction. Going into next years draft they will be miles ahead in their program by taking this approach which is somewhat innovative and is already showing results.
Who are the young players intertwined with the 1 yr players? Where are the upside foundation players? Why is Mercilus and Murry on this team? This team is behind the other rebuilding teams.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
It's their choice of strategy. I think the first step in their rebuilding process was cleaning up the previous mess (contracts, players, culture). That's why they have older players on those short contracts, 95% of them will not get another contract. You will see them introduce a larger amount of younger players once they start having their full compliment of assets (better cap space and draft picks). Not saying I agree, but my opinion of what we're seeing.
Why is Whitney and Murray on this squad if you're cleaning up contracts?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
besides The few draft picks what were they going to rebuild the team with…UDFA’s? You don’t rebuild with them. You cut them at the end of TC. The older 1-2 year contracts naturally involve players with experience. The competitive environment they produced is helping the coaching staff evaluate their systems and give valuable help with coaching up the younger players. They will also re-sign some of these better players. That’s rebuilding, not gutting and destruction. Going into next years draft they will be miles ahead in their program by taking this approach which is somewhat innovative and is already showing results.
The Raiders had already done this.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
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It's their choice of strategy. I think the first step in their rebuilding process was cleaning up the previous mess (contracts, players, culture). That's why they have older players on those short contracts, 95% of them will not get another contract. You will see them introduce a larger amount of younger players once they start having their full compliment of assets (better cap space and draft picks). Not saying I agree, but my opinion of what we're seeing.
That's also my best guess. We're not going to have the blind leading the blind.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Wilson’s arm is special. That’s what makes him special. The other guys, Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Jones have other traits or combination of traits they’ve demonstrated over their college careers that makes them special.

Mills... really, there’s no defending the pick. I wish we’d have seen one amazing play in the last 4 that gave a glimmer of special. But all I saw was Bambi.
What traits do the other guys posses that Mills doesn't posses?

If Mills looked like Bambi, then what did Lawrence/Wilson/Fields look like last week. The reason you feel the way you do is 1. He hasn't played much and you dont think he can catch up? 2. He was drafted in the 3rd rd?

I haven't seen enough of him to be making the types of evals you're making, lets see how he does the next 3-4 games. I dont expect him to do that well since he's going to be going up against the top defenses in the NFL. I want to see how well he does against Carolia/Buffalo and if he learned things it should show against Belichick. I'm not talking about setting the world on fire against Belichick, I'm talking about not looking like Wilson did last Sunday.
 


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