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State of the O-line

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I thought the OL looked pretty good down the stretch, especially in the play offs.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I thought the OL looked pretty good down the stretch, especially in the play offs.
Against Oakland, Miller was 31 for 73 yds... a 2.4 ypc, his long was 19 yds, without that he was 30 for 54... a 1.8 ypc. Os was not sacked which was an accomplishment

Against NE, he was 19 for 74... including a long of 17. Without that run he was 18 for 57, a 3.1 ypc we didn't rush much because we were behind all game but he did manage 3.9 ypc. Os was sacked 3 times

It looked a whole lot worse than that
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'm not convinced Devlin is all that good a coach. Certainly didn't see anything to make me believe that last year
Well Manz played well above his known skill set as a starter, Su'a Fila got better, Allen played with injury and Brown look okay coming off his injury. Clark needs to be left at one position but wasn't much else to do but use him.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Well Manz played well above his known skill set as a starter, Su'a Fila got better, Allen played with injury and Brown look okay coming off his injury. Clark needs to be left at one position but wasn't much else to do but use him.
Mancz played well, not sure about known skill set but then again he was highly regarded before his shoulder injury that caused him to miss the shrine game and the combine. He then missed most of his rookie season

XSF should have got better as it was his second year (first year discounted because he was moved all over)
Brown was an all pro that should have looked ok if he could play
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Bills OT Cyrus Kouandjio had a Tuesday run-in with police where he was not arrested.
Skipping voluntary workouts, Kouandjio was found "not fully clothed" in a field after "climbing over an electric fence." When approached by police, Kouandjio yelled "shoot me!" Clearly, he was not in his right mind. He was held for observation then released without incident. Recovering from surgery after a bizarre January accident in his home, Kouandjio is the Bills' swing tackle/potential right tackle. Apr 20 - 1:16 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9395/cyrus-kouandjio

IIRC he and his brother had leg injury.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Mancz played well, not sure about known skill set but then again he was highly regarded before his shoulder injury that caused him to miss the shrine game and the combine. He then missed most of his rookie season

XSF should have got better as it was his second year (first year discounted because he was moved all over)
Brown was an all pro that should have looked ok if he could play
All were surprised by Manz performance and Browns. A natural progression from year to year can be expected but often not accomplished. Perhaps it is the player but barring any info to contrary, I give coach some credit.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I didn't see any salad at all... more like chicken egg

A freak of nature (metaphorically) was responsible for what we saw last year
Man I hope you're right.

Watching games there last yr had a certain high school feel.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
  • By Gregg Rosenthal
  • Around The NFL Editor
  • Published: May 10, 2017 at 11:36 a.m.
  • Updated: May 11, 2017 at 11:54 a.m.

Gregg Rosenthal will project post-draft starting lineups for all 32 teams, because he once thought that would be a good idea. The AFC South is below:

Houston Texans

QB: Tom Savage
RB: Lamar Miller
WR: DeAndre Hopkins
WR: Will Fuller
WR: Braxton Miller
TE: C.J. Fiedorowicz
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Xavier Su'a-Filo
C: Nick Martin
RG: Jeff Allen
RT: Chris Clark

DE: J.J. Watt
DT: D.J. Reader
DE: Christian Covington
OLB: Jadeveon Clowney
ILB: Brian Cushing
ILB: Benardrick McKinney
OLB: Whitney Mercilus
CB: Kareem Jackson
CB: Johnathan Joseph
S: Andre Hal
S: Corey Moore


» All of the resources spent trading away Brock Osweiler and trading up for Deshaun Watson came at a steep cost, primarily the chance to improve other sagging parts of the roster. The offensive line stands out. Houston only invested a fourth-round pick (tackle Julie'n Davenport) on the line despite an aging left tackle, a chasm at right tackle and uneven guard play. The Texans didn't rank in the top-20 in run blocking or pass blocking last year, according to Pro Football Focus, and there's little reason to believe they've improved.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
  • By Gregg Rosenthal
  • Around The NFL Editor
  • Published: May 10, 2017 at 11:36 a.m.
  • Updated: May 11, 2017 at 11:54 a.m.
Gregg Rosenthal will project post-draft starting lineups for all 32 teams, because he once thought that would be a good idea. The AFC South is below:

Houston Texans

QB: Tom Savage
RB: Lamar Miller
WR: DeAndre Hopkins
WR: Will Fuller
WR: Braxton Miller
TE: C.J. Fiedorowicz
LT: Duane Brown
LG: Xavier Su'a-Filo
C: Nick Martin
RG: Jeff Allen
RT: Chris Clark

DE: J.J. Watt
DT: D.J. Reader
DE: Christian Covington
OLB: Jadeveon Clowney
ILB: Brian Cushing
ILB: Benardrick McKinney
OLB: Whitney Mercilus
CB: Kareem Jackson
CB: Johnathan Joseph
S: Andre Hal
S: Corey Moore


» All of the resources spent trading away Brock Osweiler and trading up for Deshaun Watson came at a steep cost, primarily the chance to improve other sagging parts of the roster. The offensive line stands out. Houston only invested a fourth-round pick (tackle Julie'n Davenport) on the line despite an aging left tackle, a chasm at right tackle and uneven guard play. The Texans didn't rank in the top-20 in run blocking or pass blocking last year, according to Pro Football Focus, and there's little reason to believe they've improved.
The Texans threw away all chances to become a better team. You said it all.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Texans threw away all chances to become a better team. You said it all.
Hmmm.. the whole time we talked about how weak this OT class was. There were a couple of guys who could instantly start at RT, but that were projected as RTs.

Rick Smith drafts a guy who may not start, but could develop into a LT... given what this draft provided, I think that was a prudent use of a fourth round pick.

So we don't have a first round pick next season. Would it matter if Davenport becomes our starting LT for 2018 & move DBrown76 to the right side? Or even Davenport starts at RT after the 2017 bye, holds the position down through 2018, then they flop them for 2019?
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Hmmm.. the whole time we talked about how weak this OT class was. There were a couple of guys who could instantly start at RT, but that were projected as RTs.

Rick Smith drafts a guy who may not start, but could develop into a LT... given what this draft provided, I think that was a prudent use of a fourth round pick.

So we don't have a first round pick next season. Would it matter if Davenport becomes our starting LT for 2018 & move DBrown76 to the right side? Or even Davenport starts at RT after the 2017 bye, holds the position down through 2018, then they flop them for 2019?
It's quite a leap to think that a "project" at RT can become an adequate LT, after only one season, and a career LT can (or would be willing to) move to RT and be adequate.

I think the coaching staff and us fans have enough on our respective plates just hoping 76 can remain healthy and get back to form and Davenport can secure the RT spot sometime in 2017.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's quite a leap to think that a "project" at RT can become an adequate LT, after only one season, and a career LT can (or would be willing to) move to RT and be adequate.

I think the coaching staff and us fans have enough on our respective plates just hoping 76 can remain healthy and get back to form and Davenport can secure the RT spot sometime in 2017.
He's a project that may eventually start on the right side, but he's not a project RT. He's a project LT. He's played on the left side his entire career.

The tackle from Bucknell has prototypical left tackle measurables, but he’s going to need time to learn how to play at the next level.
What got scouts excited is that Davenport has ideal measurements to be a starting left tackle in the NFL. He has good height, a natural build for weight and long arms. Davenport also has quick feet with athleticism. He is nimble on the edge with the ability to get depth in his kick slide to cut off speed rushers. Team sources felt that if Davenport had gone to a major program, he could have been an early round prospect. That mostly would have been from the development on the field amd in the weight room, along with the attention/hype that comes from playing at a big school.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2017jdavenport.php#xBRiHz4C9AlTT3Bj.99
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
4.7 SS and 7.57 3cone indicate quick above average feet. He finished 9th in both at the combine.
I was watching him in the Sr. Bowl against higher level comp and those numbers didn't appear to translate. Can he improve certainly, when/if he will improve? Who knows, he's certainly a big time project who may get better in a few yrs. Not anytime soon though. IMHO

I would like to get a guy like XTR to weigh in on this. He knows more about OL play than either of us ever will.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The Texans threw away all chances to become a better team. You said it all.
Yep,

This was part of Ricky's plan to get rid of BOB. IMHO

Do you think BOB would've been happy with Savage at QB and fixing the other parts of the team, while keeping their 2018 1st in a better QB class? I do

This was strictly Ricky McNair's call.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Bill O'Brien putting in more time with Texans offense
1:34 PM CT
  • Sarah BarshopESPN Staff Writer

HOUSTON -- After a season in which the Houston Texans' offense struggled mightily with quarterback Brock Osweiler under center, head coach Bill O'Brien has taken measures to make sure the unit shows improvement in 2017 with Tom Savage and rookie Deshaun Watson.

"I've been probably doing more coaching myself in the last four or five weeks than I've done in the three years that I've been here," O'Brien said during the Texans' rookie minicamp. "I'm really involved in the offense, and I'm having a lot of fun."

The Texans did not replace offensive coordinator George Godsey during the offseason and instead said O'Brien will take over playcalling duties. Godsey called plays for the Texans through the first three games before O'Brien took over after the Texans' Week 3 loss to the New England Patriots. Later in the season, O'Brien said the playcalling had been split between him and Godsey. O'Brien also called plays in 2014, his first season in Houston.

O'Brien said he will continue to be just as involved as the offseason program continues and into the season. He said he takes a lot of pride in the Texans' offense and that he knows the team has "got to get better offensively," and that starts with working more with Savage and Watson.

While O'Brien worked with Osweiler last season, it was Godsey who was not only offensive coordinator but also the quarterbacks coach. Because of this, it was Godsey who was most involved with the day-to-day with Osweiler, Savage and Brandon Weeden.

Watson said although he has spent less than three days in the facility and working with the coaching staff, he appreciates how O'Brien has worked with his so far.

"I think it's cool to be able to have your head coach and the main guy that knows this system very well to be hands-on in the meeting rooms with you and on the field with you because you can learn it first-hand," Watson said. "[You] see what he sees and [get to have] that same coach on the field whenever you're practicing or scrimmaging or in a game."
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Bill O'Brien putting in more time with Texans offense
1:34 PM CT
  • Sarah BarshopESPN Staff Writer
"I've been probably doing more coaching myself in the last four or five weeks than I've done in the three years that I've been here," O'Brien said during the Texans' rookie minicamp. "I'm really involved in the offense, and I'm having a lot of fun."
I'm not sure what to make of this...
:um:
 

Scooter

Funky
I'm not sure what to make of this...
:um:
Average fans have broken down our gameplan into it's simple and craptastic absurdity. More advanced fans have dissected the complete failures we've had in scheme and design and route combinations and futures. We have huge holes on offense that we didn't when he arrived, and still have no line. We have embarrassed ourselves completely in the QB market. Our run game is hanging by Brown's knee - because we can only run left.

Defense? No way O'Brien had a hand in any of that.

SO ... what's he been doing this whole time that he participated more in a few weeks than he's done in a few years?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Average fans have broken down our gameplan into it's simple and craptastic absurdity. More advanced fans have dissected the complete failures we've had in scheme and design and route combinations and futures. We have huge holes on offense that we didn't when he arrived, and still have no line. We have embarrassed ourselves completely in the QB market. Our run game is hanging by Brown's knee - because we can only run left.

Defense? No way O'Brien had a hand in any of that.

SO ... what's he been doing this whole time that he participated more in a few weeks than he's done in a few years?
perhaps he was trying to build his future with Houston. Now perhaps he is trying to build his future elsewhere?
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Yep,

This was part of Ricky's plan to get rid of BOB. IMHO

Do you think BOB would've been happy with Savage at QB and fixing the other parts of the team, while keeping their 2018 1st in a better QB class? I do

This was strictly Ricky McNair's call.
If Watson shows promise, both Smith's and O'Brien's jobs are salvaged. If the offensive line looked better, but the QB position still struggled, both of their jobs were in peril. If they are to be saved, Watson will be their savior.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If Watson shows promise, both Smith's and O'Brien's jobs are salvaged. If the offensive line looked better, but the QB position still struggled, both of their jobs were in peril. If they are to be saved, Watson will be their savior.
Actually Obie's future will be tied to how Savage progresses as QB1 this year. RS's future "could" be tied to Watson's success but the earliest that could come about would be next season...if Savage fails to deliver.

I think Savage could have a fairly solid season if the OL...mostly the right side, can deliver a solid season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If Watson shows promise, both Smith's and O'Brien's jobs are salvaged. If the offensive line looked better, but the QB position still struggled, both of their jobs were in peril. If they are to be saved, Watson will be their savior.
Actually Obie's future will be tied to how Savage progresses as QB1 this year. RS's future "could" be tied to Watson's success but the earliest that could come about would be next season...if Savage fails to deliver.

I think Savage could have a fairly solid season if the OL...mostly the right side, can deliver a solid season.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If Watson shows promise, both Smith's and O'Brien's jobs are salvaged. If the offensive line looked better, but the QB position still struggled, both of their jobs were in peril. If they are to be saved, Watson will be their savior.
If Watson doesn't play this yr, or only plays say after week six and the Texans are 1-5 because Ricky sold the farm and didn't do one single thing to fix the OL this offseason, in addition to injuries on defense. Then Ricky McNair will stay and BOB will be gone.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If Watson shows promise, both Smith's and O'Brien's jobs are salvaged. If the offensive line looked better, but the QB position still struggled, both of their jobs were in peril. If they are to be saved, Watson will be their savior.
If Watson doesn't play this yr, or only plays say after week six and the Texans are 1-5 because Ricky sold the farm and didn't do one single thing to fix the OL this offseason, in addition to injuries on defense. Then Ricky McNair will stay and BOB will be gone.
Actually Obie's future will be tied to how Savage progresses as QB1 this year. RS's future "could" be tied to Watson's success but the earliest that could come about would be next season...if Savage fails to deliver.

I think Savage could have a fairly solid season if the OL...mostly the right side, can deliver a solid season.
What has Ricky done to ensure the right side of the OL will be better next yr?
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
If Watson doesn't play this yr, or only plays say after week six and the Texans are 1-5 because Ricky sold the farm and didn't do one single thing to fix the OL this offseason, in addition to injuries on defense. Then Ricky McNair will stay and BOB will be gone.


What has Ricky done to ensure the right side of the OL will be better next yr?
I forgot 4th round picks don't count...

- Dak Prescott
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Forget the rd,

Do you actually think a guy from Bucknell will be able to contribute next season at a starters level in the NFL? Give me a sip of that Kool-Aid.
You tend to speak in absolutes regarding the oline. You say they've done nothing. I point out they did something... There's good players that come out of small schools. For Oline Jahri Evans out of Bloomsburg as a recent example of a good Olineman out of a small school.

Also last year's 2nd round pick Nick Martin is entering the fold.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You tend to speak in absolutes regarding the oline. You say they've done nothing. I point out they did something... There's good players that come out of small schools. For Oline Jahri Evans out of Bloomsburg as a recent example of a good Olineman out of a small school.

Also last year's 2nd round pick Nick Martin is entering the fold.
You didn't answer my question.

Do you think Davenport will be starting at ot without injury this year?

I speak in absolutes when it comes to how Ricky builds or fails to build rosters because I have seen this for the last decade.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I think Davenport will push Chris Clark for the starting RT job before the year is out.

orrrr...

They'll move Clark to RG and Allen back to RT.

It all depends on how good a Oline coach Devlin is.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I think Davenport will push Chris Clark for the starting RT job before the year is out.

orrrr...

They'll move Clark to RG and Allen back to RT.

It all depends on how good a Oline coach Devlin is.
This. Really just depends who is the meanest sob of the bunch...
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I think Davenport will push Chris Clark for the starting RT job before the year is out.

orrrr...

They'll move Clark to RG and Allen back to RT.

It all depends on how good a Oline coach Devlin is.
If moving Allen out to RT is an effective move, there is a reasonable probability that Mancz would be tried at RT.
 

Brandon420tx

Flounder
Forget the rd,

Do you actually think a guy from Bucknell will be able to contribute next season at a starters level in the NFL? Give me a sip of that Kool-Aid.
To be honest, I'm surprised people think any rookie Olineman would be ready to contribute at a starter level in the NFL. So many big college schools run the spread that it's like these lineman don't learn anything anymore.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
If moving Allen out to RT is an effective move, there is a reasonable probability that Mancz would be tried at RT.
Listening to Jayson Braddock on 790 radio today and he said he's confidant the Texans have a plan for RT, he thinks they have somebody in mind who can handle that position
for the team in 2017. Who knows, maybe Braddock knows something we don't ?
 


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